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panki wrote:
I just don't think Leia slapping Poe if he confronts her about being Kylo's mother is going to change that....for one thing, the Vader reveal only made her found the resistance and seek out the hidden enemy...and it doesn't show Kylo that his mother cares for him since he wouldn't be there to see it.

@panki

That's true- but I never thought it would be as simple as a what? You're the mother of this monster but something more like a choice Leia did (or didn't) made and it was because of her son.
Something that shows that for once she put her son before her duties... but maybe you're right and it's something totally unrelated to that.

In the old EU Leia was very similar by the way- and her daughter said something like "some people just shouldn't have children" - and the Leia in the new EU seems even worse....

I personally do believe that the slap will be about Kylo. The movie does need to make a showing that Leia still loves her son and to some extent still believes in him. Considering the BTS shot of AD and C.F. in costume on a Resistance ship, this slap could take place In front of Kylo, and will show him that his mother still cares. In fact, depending how far they take the Snoke interference,  she could say something to Poe like, "You don't know anything about him! You don't know what was done to him/what he's been through!"

I also think that at this point that they will let Leia get emotional. The new canon is reflecting her temper and Skywalker impatience and impulsivity. The fact that she does smash sith in Ransolm's office is a big deal IMO, and I do think after losing Han, if there is any hint that there might be a chance with Kylo, she will be desperate to grab it and will not be to tolerate Poe questioning that.

Finally, this may be a cultural difference issue, but IMO, it is much better that she slap Poe for personal reasons than for professional ones.  If she slaps him within the context of military protocol, that is really bad IMO, because it would be a clear violation of protocol and an abuse of her power. In WWII, General Patton was a very valued general who had a number of victories under his belt. But then he slapped a subordinate soldier. That behavior was considered so bad that Eisenhower sent him to the hinterlands for a while, because even though Patton was a great asset, the Allied army just could not tolerate that kind of behavior without significant punishment.  So IMO, if she slaps Poe for professional reasons, she loses credibility with her troops much faster than if she slaps him over a personal dispute.

Night Huntress wrote:

panki wrote:
I just don't think Leia slapping Poe if he confronts her about being Kylo's mother is going to change that....for one thing, the Vader reveal only made her found the resistance and seek out the hidden enemy...and it doesn't show Kylo that his mother cares for him since he wouldn't be there to see it.

@panki

That's true- but I never thought it would be as simple as a what? You're the mother of this monster but something more like a choice Leia did (or didn't) made and it was because of her son.  
Something that shows that for once she put her son before her duties... but maybe you're right and it's something totally unrelated to that.

In the old EU Leia was very similar by the way- and her daughter said something like "some people just shouldn't have children" - and the Leia in the new EU seems even worse....

@Night Huntress

Leia being unprepared as a mother reminds me a little of a princess in the Indian epic the Mahabharata....she has a child with the sun but isn't able to keep him since she is too young and unmarried....he is brought up by others and ends up eventually fighting for the enemy. The princess meets him on the night before the war and asks him to return to their side and re-join his family. He is conflicted but finally refuses as he cannot abandon his friends....of course it ends tragically which I don't see happening in SW.

But what I would love is for Leia and Kylo to meet on Crait before the battle and have a similar conversation....maybe Kylo initially returns to Snoke but changes his mind sometime mid-battle.

SoloSideCousin wrote:I personally do believe that the slap will be about Kylo. The movie does need to make a showing that Leia still loves her son and to some extent still believes in him. Considering the BTS shot of AD and C.F. in costume on a Resistance ship, this slap could take place In front of Kylo, and will show him that his mother still cares. In fact, depending how far they take the Snoke interference,  she could say something to Poe like, "You don't know anything about him! You don't know what was done to him/what he's been through!"

I also think that at this point that they will let Leia get emotional. The new canon is reflecting her temper and Skywalker impatience and impulsivity. The fact that she does smash sith in Ransolm's office is a big deal IMO, and I do think after losing Han, if there is any hint that there might be a chance with Kylo, she will be desperate to grab it and will not be to tolerate Poe questioning that.

Finally, this may be a cultural difference issue, but IMO, it is much better that she slap Poe for personal reasons than for professional ones.  If she slaps him within the context of military protocol, that is really bad IMO, because it would be a clear violation of protocol and an abuse of her power. In WWII, General Patton was a very valued general who had a number of victories under his belt. But then he slapped a subordinate soldier. That behavior was considered so bad that Eisenhower sent him to the hinterlands for a while, because even though Patton was a great asset, the Allied army just could not tolerate that kind of behavior without significant punishment.  So IMO, if she slaps Poe for professional reasons, she loses credibility with her troops much faster than if she slaps him over a personal dispute.

@SoloSideCousin

But what does that achieve for the story? That Leia cannot tolerate anyone questioning her family?Does that not make her sound even more Vader-like and highly unprofessional? The rest of the resistance already knows she is Vader's daughter. Behaving irrationally on a Kylo reveal will only make her sound like a complete tyrant. I think such an act would be a big dis-service to her and to Poe as well, since he treats her with a lot of respect.

And what does that achieve for Poe's character arc to become a future leader? Or serve in his rumored problems with Holdo?

I don't see it serving any other purpose than to make the movie a Kylo festival where the force plot is about Kylo, the first order plot is about Kylo, and now the resistance plot is about Kylo as well. I think there needs to be something that isn't about Kylo.

Night Huntress wrote:

panki wrote:
2. While I understand you have not read the comics, the comics are in fact canon and Leia having problems with Poe breaking rules is canon....Poe confronting her and acting out is not. We cannot cherry pick the parts out of canon we like and throw out the rest just because w don't like it.

Huh? Where did I do that? I just explained that I didn't read the comics- and that's why I may have a different opinion...I never said they were not canon.

panki wrote:
3. Leia might not care since she isn't a senator but she is still a leader and now that the New Republic has gone, the resistance will be looked upon to keep the galaxy safe. Hence, she is not some free agent running amok- she is the leader of something big and her upbringing as a princess and a leader will prevent her from acting like some hysterical person in public just because someone confronts her about her son. If you read novels relating to her life, she has been trained to be a princess and a leader (and behave like one) from childhood.
Sorry but she has a lot to lose now that the New Republic has gone and she is a leader once more. And like I said before, she did not slap Ranslom over a family issue being aired in public...I highly doubt she will do it in Poe's case.

While I didn't read the comics I DID read all of the books related to Leia's life and even if she was trained to be a princess she did NOT act like one in every situation. But maybe it's like with the movies. Many people seemed to see a different movie and so some people seemed to read a different book.

panki wrote:
4. Saying that Poe will confront her in public about her son also goes against his character. He might be a daredevil etc. but the books and comics relating to Poe show that he was extremely well brought up by his father with lots of discipline and used to high stress situations, even comforting squad members who have trouble coping with bad sitations....it makes no sense for him to confront Leia and embarrass her since he respects her so much....for one thing, he would be aware she is Vader's daughter and seems fine with the fact...why would he suddenly decide to go crazy on finding out she is Kylo's mother?

Because he haven't even known Vader, but have been interrogated by Kylo not too gently?
You think people act all rational and never ever do something out of feelings- Real people aren't like droids you know? Even the best training etc. don't prevent you from acting out sometimes.

panki wrote:
It makes more sense for the slap to be related to something Holdo says/does than have any connection to Kylo.

@panki

Well maybe you are right, it would be in character thinking how indifferent she is regarding her own son...

I really hope it is about Kylo- not because he should be the center of every plot or something... but because it's time Leia finally puts her stupid  priorities right and not everything about work and politics... I'm not a big fan of her- if she is all about her stupid duties she shouldn't have have child. Selfish idiot.

@Night Huntress
And there is the rub. Although I adore Han, and Leia is my hero, neither of them really should have been parents. Your kid has to come first. It doesnt mean you have to give up everything for them of course, but when they need you, you should be there. And I get a very strong vibe from Leia that she was so busy rebuilding her Republic she didnt have time for her child, especially a child suffering a prolonged psychic assault from a monster.

So like every Reylo, I shared this last night on Instagram...and woke up to my favorite bounty hunter taking interest. Who knew the Fett had it in him?? Day made

panki wrote:

But what does that achieve for the story? That Leia cannot tolerate anyone questioning her family? Does that not make her sound even more Vader-like and highly unprofessional? The rest of the resistance already knows she is Vader's daughter. Behaving irrationally on a Kylo reveal will only make her sound like a complete tyrant. I think such an act would be a big dis-service to her and to Poe as well, since he treats her with a lot of respect.

When does Leia ever put her family first?  That would be like never.   It would serve the story in showing she still cares for her son. Because I don't think many people questioning her role as a leader, Princess, General or whatever- but her role as a mother is more than doubtful. She failed her son - big time! And that's what she has to makes amends for (in my opinion)

panki wrote:
And what does that achieve for Poe's character arc to become a future leader? Or serve in his rumored problems with Holdo?

Frankly- I don't think that one slap from a broken woman who has lost mostly everyone she cared for (or should have cared for) will have consequences for Poe's character arc or role as a future leader. The Resistance isn't a formal military organization like the FO or Empire was... it's still a voluntary army.

panki wrote:
I don't see it serving any other purpose than to make the movie a Kylo festival where the force plot is about Kylo, the first order plot is about Kylo, and now the resistance plot is about Kylo as well. I think there needs to be something that isn't about Kylo.

@panki

Don't get me wrong- I respect your opinion and you have some really good thinking... but that sounds a bit defiant.
I don't think it will be that much of Kylo in the movie at all. It just seems that way because we discuss so much about it on this board.

Keep in mind- while the comics and books are canon, most of the GA haven't read them... they don't have so much of a backstory andtherefore
don't care so much about all of it.
Having Leia slap Poe should be something very personal/emotional - otherwise they wouldn't have her done it.
Yeah, it might be like something out of a soap opera - but Star Wars IS a Space Opera... it's about family drama and relationships.
We don't need even more of cold, duty-bound Leia- we need to finally see her as a MOTHER and not a stupid leader.

SoloSideCousin wrote:I personally do believe that the slap will be about Kylo. The movie does need to make a showing that Leia still loves her son and to some extent still believes in him. Considering the BTS shot of AD and C.F. in costume on a Resistance ship, this slap could take place In front of Kylo, and will show him that his mother still cares. In fact, depending how far they take the Snoke interference,  she could say something to Poe like, "You don't know anything about him! You don't know what was done to him/what he's been through!"

I also think that at this point that they will let Leia get emotional. The new canon is reflecting her temper and Skywalker impatience and impulsivity. The fact that she does smash sith in Ransolm's office is a big deal IMO, and I do think after losing Han, if there is any hint that there might be a chance with Kylo, she will be desperate to grab it and will not be to tolerate Poe questioning that.

Finally, this may be a cultural difference issue, but IMO, it is much better that she slap Poe for personal reasons than for professional ones.  If she slaps him within the context of military protocol, that is really bad IMO, because it would be a clear violation of protocol and an abuse of her power. In WWII, General Patton was a very valued general who had a number of victories under his belt. But then he slapped a subordinate soldier. That behavior was considered so bad that Eisenhower sent him to the hinterlands for a while, because even though Patton was a great asset, the Allied army just could not tolerate that kind of behavior without significant punishment.  So IMO, if she slaps Poe for professional reasons, she loses credibility with her troops much faster than if she slaps him over a personal dispute.

@SoloSideCousin

This is exactly what I was thinking. I’m not a fan of the slap, tbh - I think it’s unprofessional regardless of context, but I think it’s a good storytelling device because it reveals a lot about Leia and the degree of intimacy she has with her surrogate son Poe. Leia the General would never slap an underling - how is that different from Vader force choking his minions? A physically abusive boss is a physically abusive boss. But Leia the mom might slap her adult son stand-in. And I think that if anything makes Leia lose her composure in that way it has to be something personal, and something big. Something pertaining to Luke or Kylo Ren.

Count me in among the camp who wants to see Leia stand up for Kylo somehow, to show us that even if she’s furious and obviously disappointed in what he is now, she still cares about him and will go all mama bear on Poe’s a** if he threatens or disses her son in her presence.

Where I disagree with the earlier speculation is that the slap might be because of Poe confronting/embarrassing Leia in public. I imagine something more like an off the cuff remark (Mace Windu style: “that monster is too dangerous to be left alive”) or an outright threat from Poe to Kylo’s life. Maybe that’s just what I want to see. XD

Night Huntress wrote:

panki wrote:

But what does that achieve for the story? That Leia cannot tolerate anyone questioning her family? Does that not make her sound even more Vader-like and highly unprofessional? The rest of the resistance already knows she is Vader's daughter. Behaving irrationally on a Kylo reveal will only make her sound like a complete tyrant. I think such an act would be a big dis-service to her and to Poe as well, since he treats her with a lot of respect.

When does Leia ever put her family first?  That would be like never.   It would serve the story in showing she still cares for her son. Because I don't think many people questioning her role as a leader, Princess, General or whatever- but her role as a mother is more than doubtful. She failed her son - big time! And that's what she has to makes amends for (in my opinion)

panki wrote:
And what does that achieve for Poe's character arc to become a future leader? Or serve in his rumored problems with Holdo?

Frankly- I don't think that one slap from a broken woman who has lost mostly everyone she cared for (or should have cared for) will have consequences for Poe's character arc or role as a future leader. The Resistance isn't a formal military organization like the FO or Empire was... it's still a voluntary army.

panki wrote:
I don't see it serving any other purpose than to make the movie a Kylo festival where the force plot is about Kylo, the first order plot is about Kylo, and now the resistance plot is about Kylo as well. I think there needs to be something that isn't about Kylo.

@panki

Don't get me wrong- I respect your opinion and you have some really good thinking... but that sounds a bit defiant.
I don't think it will be that much of Kylo in the movie at all. It just seems that way because we discuss so much about it on this board.

Keep in mind- while the comics and books are canon, most of the GA haven't read them... they don't have so much of a backstory andtherefore
don't care so much about all of it.
Having Leia slap Poe should be something very personal/emotional - otherwise they wouldn't have her done it.
Yeah, it might be like something out of a soap opera - but Star Wars IS a Space Opera... it's about family drama and relationships.
We don't need even more of cold, duty-bound Leia- we need to finally see her as a MOTHER and not a stupid leader.

@Night Huntress

Yeah,I agree.I mean if the scene is about something else other than Kylo I'm sure both Carrie and Oscar will be great and the scene will still be fine but I think it will make it much more poignant and emotional since SW is all about family and it will just resonate more to the GA. especially since this is the last movie we'll probably see Leia in and I would love if CF got the chance to show a more emotional  and vulnerable  Leia since isn't something we've got much in the previous movies.
And just seeing that Kylo/Leia scene in the trailer was so emotional and I think LF put it on purpose when they could have easily shown Leia doing something Resistance related.

panki wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

panki wrote:
I just don't think Leia slapping Poe if he confronts her about being Kylo's mother is going to change that....for one thing, the Vader reveal only made her found the resistance and seek out the hidden enemy...and it doesn't show Kylo that his mother cares for him since he wouldn't be there to see it.

@panki

That's true- but I never thought it would be as simple as a what? You're the mother of this monster but something more like a choice Leia did (or didn't) made and it was because of her son.  
Something that shows that for once she put her son before her duties... but maybe you're right and it's something totally unrelated to that.

In the old EU Leia was very similar by the way- and her daughter said something like "some people just shouldn't have children" - and the Leia in the new EU seems even worse....

@Night Huntress

Leia being unprepared as a mother reminds me a little of a princess in the Indian epic the Mahabharata....she has a child with the sun but isn't able to keep him since she is too young and unmarried....he is brought up by others and ends up eventually fighting for the enemy. The princess meets him on the night before the war and asks him to return to their side and re-join his family. He is conflicted but finally refuses as he cannot abandon his friends....of course it ends tragically which I don't see happening in SW.

But what I would love is for Leia and Kylo to meet on Crait before the battle and have a similar conversation....maybe Kylo initially returns to Snoke but changes his mind sometime mid-battle.

SoloSideCousin wrote:I personally do believe that the slap will be about Kylo. The movie does need to make a showing that Leia still loves her son and to some extent still believes in him. Considering the BTS shot of AD and C.F. in costume on a Resistance ship, this slap could take place In front of Kylo, and will show him that his mother still cares. In fact, depending how far they take the Snoke interference,  she could say something to Poe like, "You don't know anything about him! You don't know what was done to him/what he's been through!"

I also think that at this point that they will let Leia get emotional. The new canon is reflecting her temper and Skywalker impatience and impulsivity. The fact that she does smash sith in Ransolm's office is a big deal IMO, and I do think after losing Han, if there is any hint that there might be a chance with Kylo, she will be desperate to grab it and will not be to tolerate Poe questioning that.

Finally, this may be a cultural difference issue, but IMO, it is much better that she slap Poe for personal reasons than for professional ones.  If she slaps him within the context of military protocol, that is really bad IMO, because it would be a clear violation of protocol and an abuse of her power. In WWII, General Patton was a very valued general who had a number of victories under his belt. But then he slapped a subordinate soldier. That behavior was considered so bad that Eisenhower sent him to the hinterlands for a while, because even though Patton was a great asset, the Allied army just could not tolerate that kind of behavior without significant punishment.  So IMO, if she slaps Poe for professional reasons, she loses credibility with her troops much faster than if she slaps him over a personal dispute.

@SoloSideCousin

But what does that achieve for the story? That Leia cannot tolerate anyone questioning her family?Does that not make her sound even more Vader-like and highly unprofessional? The rest of the resistance already knows she is Vader's daughter. Behaving irrationally on a Kylo reveal will only make her sound like a complete tyrant. I think such an act would be a big dis-service to her and to Poe as well, since he treats her with a lot of respect.

And what does that achieve for Poe's character arc to become a future leader? Or serve in his rumored problems with Holdo?

I don't see it serving any other purpose than to make the movie a Kylo festival where the force plot is about Kylo, the first order plot is about Kylo, and now the resistance plot is about Kylo as well. I think there needs to be something that isn't about Kylo.

@panki

Looking at the trailer where Leia is standing in front of what looks like a big closing door leading out to the plains of Crait, and looks back, I get the impression that she is going out there, alone. Like she is leaving the resistance behind and making a last ditch effort to connect with her son. I could see how 'the slap' triggers that.

I feel like Leia is likely to be somewhat coming apart at the seams in this movie.

New pic of Luke and he doesn't look happy.

He looks like is ready to say: 'get out of my library!!'

He does look angry.

DarthRen wrote:New pic of Luke and he doesn't look happy.

@DarthRen

This reminds me of the Beast getting all pissy when Belle found his enchanted rose (Ruke CONFIRMED) or of “You mustn’t read from the book!” from The Mummy 1999.

Could this be connected to the scene in the trailer where Rey approaches the books and looks intrigued/interested? Luke might not want her to read his Jedi encyclopedia, especially if he’s fearful of her power and maybe her connection with Kylo Ren?

Speaking of B&B, I hope Luke doesn’t go all “It’s not right for a woman to read. Soon she starts getting ideas and....thinking...” Kidding. XD

new BTS:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/36/590x/secondary/Star-Wars-8-Finn-and-Rey-on-Crait-1027624.jpg

We need screen caps.

About Leia... I kind of see her as the kind of parent who believes that by working hard to build a better society, that's how they prove that they love their child. The problem is... you can't really expect a child to understand that, since they're not fully capable of being aware of the society surrounding them (too abstract). Especially with Ben being a sensitive child, he's exactly the type who'd need more attention from his parents. That's just a matter of temperament. Some kids are more independent than others.

And frankly, I hate to say this, but when your kid ends up being the target of a child predator, and you weren't around to prevent it because you weren't able of putting your priorities straight, what I'm going to say will sound harsh, but - I'm sorry, but you failed your child. To be honest, I thought part of the reason was that Leia was raised as a princess and probably spent more time with nannies than with her adoptive parents, but thanks to Leia, Princess of Alderaan, we know that Bail and Breha were stellar parents.

I think that the reason boils down that Leia is a pretty independent person and she kind of expects everyone around her to be this way - my mom kind of tends to be like that herself. That's not to say that she's insensitive - she is, but the way she deals with pain is by basically being a workaholic, and she deals with the fact that she's Vader's daughter by being his exact opposite. That makes her not very much the maternal type: even the Legends continuity didn't make her very motherly.

As for Han... I don't know. Right now I'm thinking that perhaps Han wasn't big on sending Ben to Luke, and that Leia is the one who insisted and eventually won. I have a suspicion that Han is the one who taught him how to fly, Ben preferred being a pilot than becoming a Jedi, and Han told him something along the lines of: "Don't worry, kid, I'll make sure your mom won't send you away". But he was forced to break his promise, and that's where Ben/Kylo's grudge against Han comes from.

So I kind of see Leia as the kind of mother who has the best intentions, but... she doesn't really understand a child's psychology, lol. And I think she's the first person to not realize how iffy it is to appear indifferent to your child by not focusing on him directly and getting surrogate children like replacement puppies in the process.

@Irina de France: exactly - I even can relate to Leia in a way...and that's why I decided against having children. I lack the "mother-gene" somehow.
I would make sure my children will be well fed, have everything materially and the best education but I'm not good dealing with kids. I don't no what to do or how to speak with them I found them annoying most of the time to be honest.