Rey's facial expression

Slade wrote:And that's another thing too many people gloss over: Kylo is not brandishing his saber at this point; it's at his side. He isn't charging at them and he isn't really close to them. She shoots first. Somehow the antis don't question the morality of that (or the morality of Finn killing multiple of the troopers he has grown up with, apparently without a single care).

@Slade

Yes, yes and yes - when the meet here and on Takodena Rey always shoots first....

Look, I understand that Rey shoots first but if I were her I'd do the same. I mean, she's alone in a forest, there's a battle going on and a masked figure with a lightsaber is stalking her

I actually like it. It shows that Rey is no morally pure character and knows how to care of herself.

I finally got to see it on a HD TV screen, which is bigger than watching on a laptop and small enough to show more detail than in the theater. And the one thing which stood out with the two of them are the initial facial expressions at the beginning of the Interrogation. Her facial expression towards him at the beginning is pure hate, like that's why he says "You still want to kill me," because she's giving him the dagger eyes. Also noticed his body language more when he takes off the mask, she completely goads him into it with that look and then calling him a creature. And when he takes it off, there's a moment of "Okay, fine I'll take it off. See, not a creature!" Like he's annoyed, but he does it for her anyways to try and win his side of the argument. Never noticed either of those details before, but it's funny how personal it is between the two of them even at that initial moment, moreso than what's shown with Poe.

@snufkin

What I love about the unmasking is the complete change of expression in Rey's face. When she wakes up she's staring at him intensely, she doesn't even blink. Her face is like " ". Then he unmasks and she goes from " " to " " to " ". She's so embarrassed and afraid to look directly at him after that hahaha.

Piper Maru wrote:@snufkin

What I love about the unmasking is the complete change of expression in Rey's face. When she wakes up she's staring at him intensely, she doesn't even blink. Her face is like " :x ". Then he unmasks and she goes from " :suspect: " to " :shock: " to " :| ". She's so embarrassed and afraid to look directly at him after that hahaha.

@Piper Maru

Yeah that's part of what's so hysterical about that scene and pretty much all of their interactions - it's shaded by both of them being clueless about the opposite sex.  So you have her goad him into taking off the mask, he can't not help but do it even if he knows that he shouldn't but it's *her* (and his body language when he takes it off is like "fine! are you happy now?"), and once she sees his face, her brain can't really compute what she thinks he is versus the person she's suddenly face to face with. And the whole time, they keep looking/checking each other out when they think the other one isn't looking.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:In my opinion, both Rey and Kylo have this "What just happened?" Faces, I don't know for sure but maybe during their duel they just too focus on one another and discarded the surrounding area even if it's collapsing. Some sort of "Finding the Force" within each other

Kylo's expressions


And this are Rey's expression




Their expression somewhat mirrors one another, disbelief, . In the second picture, Rey even shows genuine concern for Kylo, she even have the blue light illustrated half of her face, the same side of Kylo's scar

@Sylvia Snow

Has anyone analyzed that streak of hair across her face? Is that a mirror image to his scar? Like her dark moment was a scar on her soul or something?

@SoloSideCousin

His expression says: "What have you done to me?"

Her expression says: "What have I done to him?"

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Slade wrote:And that's another thing too many people gloss over: Kylo is not brandishing his saber at this point; it's at his side. He isn't charging at them and he isn't really close to them. She shoots first. Somehow the antis don't question the morality of that (or the morality of Finn killing multiple of the troopers he has grown up with, apparently without a single care).

@Slade

Yes, yes and yes - when the meet here and on Takodena Rey always shoots first....

@motherofpearl1

Piper Maru wrote:Look, I understand that Rey shoots first but if I were her I'd do the same. I mean, she's alone in a forest, there's a battle going on and a masked figure with a lightsaber is stalking her

I actually like it. It shows that Rey is no morally pure character and knows how to care of herself.

@Piper Maru

I don't know if it was ever in the script, but in the ADF novelization (which I take with a pile of salt for most things), one of Kylo's opening lines to Rey was "You shot first."

I thought that was cute/clever, although it didn't make the final cut for TFA.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Slade wrote:And that's another thing too many people gloss over: Kylo is not brandishing his saber at this point; it's at his side. He isn't charging at them and he isn't really close to them. She shoots first. Somehow the antis don't question the morality of that (or the morality of Finn killing multiple of the troopers he has grown up with, apparently without a single care).

@Slade

Yes, yes and yes - when the meet here and on Takodena Rey always shoots first....

@motherofpearl1

Piper Maru wrote:Look, I understand that Rey shoots first but if I were her I'd do the same. I mean, she's alone in a forest, there's a battle going on and a masked figure with a lightsaber is stalking her

I actually like it. It shows that Rey is no morally pure character and knows how to care of herself.

@Piper Maru

I don't know if it was ever in the script, but in the ADF novelization (which I take with a pile of salt for most things), one of Kylo's opening lines to Rey was "You shot first."

I thought that was cute/clever, although it didn't make the final cut for TFA.

@ISeeAnIsland

Tell me about it! When I read that line in the novel, I was so mad it was cut from the movie! It would have been a nice touch and great call back to Han. Like you said, very cute/clever.

I think they were trying not to make Kylo too sympathetic- another reason why I think he's going to be redeemed; they want it to be a 'surprise'.

I also think in the original film Rey also saw Kylo being rescued.

Can't we have a director's cut...

motherofpearl1 wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:In my opinion, both Rey and Kylo have this "What just happened?" Faces, I don't know for sure but maybe during their duel they just too focus on one another and discarded the surrounding area even if it's collapsing. Some sort of "Finding the Force" within each other

Kylo's expressions


And this are Rey's expression




Their expression somewhat mirrors one another, disbelief, . In the second picture, Rey even shows genuine concern for Kylo, she even have the blue light illustrated half of her face, the same side of Kylo's scar

@Sylvia Snow

Has anyone analyzed that streak of hair across her face? Is that a mirror image to his scar? Like her dark moment was a scar on her soul or something?

@SoloSideCousin

His expression says: "What have you done to me?"

Her expression says: "What have I done to him?"

@motherofpearl1

Am I the only one - or does Rey look the image of Emma Watson in BatB in that last pic?

Actually, one of the things she picked up from Kylo's mind is that he left the stove on. She knows he's double screwed now!

Helix wrote:Actually, one of the things she picked up from Kylo's mind is that he left the stove on. She knows he's double screwed now!

@Helix

Adam did say at one of those TFA panels that Kylo liked to cook.

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

That's the shot director Ava DuVernay suggested JJ get.  To me that is a really big hint that she struggle with the darkness in the future.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

That's the shot director Ava DuVernay suggested JJ get.  To me that is a really big hint that she struggle with the darkness in the future.

@SoloSideCousin

He really did chose the exact wrong time to provoke her and pick a fight. Even with Plutt's thugs, it's not just that she's trying to defend her new friend, it's that she'll be damned if they interfere and try to take away the first friend she's ever had.

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

Personally the thing I dislike the most after "Rey is a Skywalker" is "Rey is a pure cinnamon roll bathed in sunshine". I guess because she's a girl some people only see her fighting as some girl power/pure heroine kicking the bad guys *****? I always saw pure anger and rage in the scenes where Rey fights (especially in the last fight with Kylo), it's one of the reason why I could never imagine her becoming a Jedi, besides her craving affection and attachments. I do think they're gonna explore the darkness in her in TLJ, that going from a scavenger nobody cared about to being Force sensitive with the task of bringing back the legendary Luke Skywalker all of sudden will take a toll on her, and that fact coupled with some revelation about her family/past + interacting with Luke and Kylo will bring her to the brink of falling to the Dark side or going dark (even if her being the heroine and some scenes like her refusing to sell BB8 already tell you that it would be only temporary). Daisy's words "I wonder how people are going to react to Rey in ep VIII" give me hope that this is where they're going. Also just a random observation, to me Reylo has never been about the good girl falling for the bad guy but about two lonely and broken souls eventually finding solace, comfort, love and a home together and in each other.

Hasi wrote:

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

Personally the thing I dislike the most after "Rey is a Skywalker" is "Rey is a pure cinnamon roll bathed in sunshine". I guess because she's a girl some people only see her fighting as some girl power/pure heroine kicking the bad guys *****? I always saw pure anger and rage in the scenes where Rey fights (especially in the last fight with Kylo), it's one of the reason why I could never imagine her becoming a Jedi, besides her craving affection and attachments. I do think they're gonna explore the darkness in her in TLJ, that going from a scavenger nobody cared about to being Force sensitive with the task of bringing back the legendary Luke Skywalker all of sudden will take a toll on her, and that fact coupled with some revelation about her family/past + interacting with Luke and Kylo will bring her to the brink of falling to the Dark side or going dark (even if her being the heroine and some scenes like her refusing to sell BB8 already tell you that it would be only temporary). Daisy's words "I wonder how people are going to react to Rey in ep VIII" give me hope that this is where they're going. Also just a random observation, to me Reylo has never been about the good girl falling for the bad guy but about two lonely and broken souls eventually finding solace, comfort, love and a home together and in each other.

@Hasi

This is what I want as well.
I don't want to see Rey go 'dark' - I want her to get to understand Kylo by becoming aware of how the 'dark' is inside everyone including herself - the same epiphany Luke had in ROTJ. For Luke it was realising he was 'becoming' his father when he discovered they both had cybernetic limbs. For Rey I think it'll be when she sees what she's done to his face. The final fight between them was actually creepy - I went from cheering Rey when she claimed the lightsabre to actually being repulsed by the cruelty she displayed when she laid into Kylo. The way she seemed to enjoy tormenting him, from the kick to his bowcaster wound to the little prods with the lightsabre - injuries designed not so much to win, as she was obviously winning because he was dropping on his feet - but to inflict pain, all leading up to the final blow delivered after she'd disarmed him. From this young girl who didn't have the heart to sell a droid it was unbelievable.

I have a feeling that in TLJ there'll be another scene where Rey has the opportunity to leave him and she'll choose to stay. I am convinced that the film will have them reaching an understanding that will set up the dynamics in IX.

I think that where Finn has found a 'family' in the Resistance Rey and Kylo will find it in each other.

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Hasi wrote:

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

Personally the thing I dislike the most after "Rey is a Skywalker" is "Rey is a pure cinnamon roll bathed in sunshine". I guess because she's a girl some people only see her fighting as some girl power/pure heroine kicking the bad guys *****? I always saw pure anger and rage in the scenes where Rey fights (especially in the last fight with Kylo), it's one of the reason why I could never imagine her becoming a Jedi, besides her craving affection and attachments. I do think they're gonna explore the darkness in her in TLJ, that going from a scavenger nobody cared about to being Force sensitive with the task of bringing back the legendary Luke Skywalker all of sudden will take a toll on her, and that fact coupled with some revelation about her family/past + interacting with Luke and Kylo will bring her to the brink of falling to the Dark side or going dark (even if her being the heroine and some scenes like her refusing to sell BB8 already tell you that it would be only temporary). Daisy's words "I wonder how people are going to react to Rey in ep VIII" give me hope that this is where they're going. Also just a random observation, to me Reylo has never been about the good girl falling for the bad guy but about two lonely and broken souls eventually finding solace, comfort, love and a home together and in each other.

@Hasi

This is what I want as well.
I don't want to see Rey go 'dark' - I want her to get to understand Kylo by becoming aware of how the 'dark' is inside everyone including herself - the same epiphany Luke had in ROTJ. For Luke it was realising he was 'becoming' his father when he discovered they both had cybernetic limbs. For Rey I think it'll be when she sees what she's done to his face. The final fight between them was actually creepy - I went from cheering Rey when she claimed the lightsabre to actually being repulsed by the cruelty she displayed when she laid into Kylo. The way she seemed to enjoy tormenting him, from the kick to his bowcaster wound to the little prods with the lightsabre - injuries designed not so much to win, as she was obviously winning because he was dropping on his feet - but to inflict pain, all leading up to the final blow delivered after she'd disarmed him. From this young girl who didn't have the heart to sell a droid it was unbelievable.

I have a feeling that in TLJ there'll be another scene where Rey has the opportunity to leave him and she'll choose to stay. I am convinced that the film will have them reaching an understanding that will set up the dynamics in IX.

I think that where Finn has found a 'family' in the Resistance Rey and Kylo will find it in each other.

@motherofpearl1

Exactly, exactly (quote by Matt the radar technician lol)!Finger crossed for them going in this direction  
Mte also re: Kylo and Rey fight, Kylo deserved it but at the same time I wasn't really cheering for Rey in that moment...it didn't feel triumphant to me. She seemed in a sort of berserk mode in that fight. The scar is yet another thing that connects them, with Kylo it serves as a sort of "scarlet letter" to remind us of what he did (and who did this to him), but it's also a reminder that Rey can be a monster, too.
Yes, I think Rey found a family in Finn, Chewie, BB8 (and Han), a family that finally came back for her, but they took the role of the childhood family that she never had, and I've always thought that in Kylo she will find her future belonging and family, intended as moving away from your childhood/teenage nest and towards your own family as a symbol of the coming of age fairytale. And yes it's foreshadowed during the scene at Maz's castle that Finn and Rey paths are going to diverge- it's not a coincidence that after the belonging speech Rey met Kylo and got carried away by him, and Finn instead went with the Resistance

Hasi wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Hasi wrote:

SkyStar wrote:

holy macaroni, now that really feels like her personal bottled up rage

gif by: http://tfa.tumblr.com/post/159205272220

@SkyStar

Personally the thing I dislike the most after "Rey is a Skywalker" is "Rey is a pure cinnamon roll bathed in sunshine". I guess because she's a girl some people only see her fighting as some girl power/pure heroine kicking the bad guys *****? I always saw pure anger and rage in the scenes where Rey fights (especially in the last fight with Kylo), it's one of the reason why I could never imagine her becoming a Jedi, besides her craving affection and attachments. I do think they're gonna explore the darkness in her in TLJ, that going from a scavenger nobody cared about to being Force sensitive with the task of bringing back the legendary Luke Skywalker all of sudden will take a toll on her, and that fact coupled with some revelation about her family/past + interacting with Luke and Kylo will bring her to the brink of falling to the Dark side or going dark (even if her being the heroine and some scenes like her refusing to sell BB8 already tell you that it would be only temporary). Daisy's words "I wonder how people are going to react to Rey in ep VIII" give me hope that this is where they're going. Also just a random observation, to me Reylo has never been about the good girl falling for the bad guy but about two lonely and broken souls eventually finding solace, comfort, love and a home together and in each other.

@Hasi

This is what I want as well.
I don't want to see Rey go 'dark' - I want her to get to understand Kylo by becoming aware of how the 'dark' is inside everyone including herself - the same epiphany Luke had in ROTJ. For Luke it was realising he was 'becoming' his father when he discovered they both had cybernetic limbs. For Rey I think it'll be when she sees what she's done to his face. The final fight between them was actually creepy - I went from cheering Rey when she claimed the lightsabre to actually being repulsed by the cruelty she displayed when she laid into Kylo. The way she seemed to enjoy tormenting him, from the kick to his bowcaster wound to the little prods with the lightsabre - injuries designed not so much to win, as she was obviously winning because he was dropping on his feet - but to inflict pain, all leading up to the final blow delivered after she'd disarmed him. From this young girl who didn't have the heart to sell a droid it was unbelievable.

I have a feeling that in TLJ there'll be another scene where Rey has the opportunity to leave him and she'll choose to stay. I am convinced that the film will have them reaching an understanding that will set up the dynamics in IX.

I think that where Finn has found a 'family' in the Resistance Rey and Kylo will find it in each other.

@motherofpearl1

Exactly, exactly (quote by Matt the radar technician lol)!Finger crossed for them going in this direction  
Mte also re: Kylo and Rey fight, Kylo deserved it but at the same time I wasn't really cheering for Rey in that moment...it didn't feel triumphant to me. She seemed in a sort of berserk mode in that fight. The scar is yet another thing that connects them, with Kylo it serves as a sort of "scarlet letter" to remind us of what he did (and who did this to him), but it's also a reminder that Rey can be a monster, too.
Yes, I think Rey found a family in Finn, Chewie, BB8 (and Han), a family that finally came back for her, but they took the role of the childhood family that she never had, and I've always thought that in Kylo she will find her future belonging and family, intended as moving away from your childhood/teenage nest and towards your own family as a symbol of the coming of age fairytale. And yes it's foreshadowed during the scene at Maz's castle that Finn and Rey paths are going to diverge- it's not a coincidence that after the belonging speech Rey met Kylo and got carried away by him, and Finn instead went with the Resistance

@Hasi

Yes it's very telling that scene - Maz stating the belonging Rey sought lay 'ahead' when she'd already met Han and Finn, and the next thing she saw was Kylo's ship.
I dare say you could say it meant Leia and the Resistance - and Reywalkers will probably say Luke - but at the end of TFA it's interesting how we see Leia and the Resistance saying goodbye to Rey -and Luke looked less than welcoming. So....where is her 'belonging'?

Has anyone else noticed after Maz tells Rey, "The saber-take it" there is a voice that quietly says "It's Ben." That's when Rey freaks out and says she never wants to touch the saber again and that she doesn't want any part of it.

nite0wl29 wrote:Has anyone else noticed after Maz tells Rey, "The saber-take it" there is a voice that quietly says "It's Ben." That's when Rey freaks out and says she never wants to touch the saber again and that she doesn't want any part of it.

@nite0wl29

I haven't noticed it myself but a youtube video pointed that detail out and since than I can't "unhear" it.
Not sure it's a "once you hear what someone tell's you to hear" syndrome or if it's really there?

Haven't heard that particular audio detail, but that particular YouTuber is a plagiarist extraordinaire, having lurked here and other places to steal content/writing from members of this forum.

The bit with the saber would be interesting to know the full back story they scrapped about how it went from Bespin to Maz, because the remnants of that are in Rey's force vision. And there's a very clear moment when Maz shows it to Han and Finn that Han literally looks like he's going to vomit with the question, "where'd you get that?" It had to have been given to Ben at some point as a family heirloom/legacy before everything goes wrong.

snufkin wrote:Haven't heard that particular audio detail, but that particular YouTuber is a plagiarist extraordinaire, having lurked here and other places to steal content/writing from members of this forum.

@snufkin

Oh, really??? I didn't know that! Sorry, should I remove the youtube video?

Night Huntress wrote:

snufkin wrote:Haven't heard that particular audio detail, but that particular YouTuber is a plagiarist extraordinaire, having lurked here and other places to steal content/writing from members of this forum.

@snufkin

Oh, really??? I didn't know that! Sorry, should I remove the youtube video?

@Night Huntress

Oh it's been posted here before, so don't worry. But yeah, he's lurked here and on people's blogs because a lot of the content in there was lifted without getting clearance (art work) or giving credit to the essays. There's a whole thread about it in the archives if you're curious. Besides the theft angle, a lot of people were pissed off because it's been a year or so of predominantly female fans discussing this interpretation of TFA/speculating about the ST and getting slagged off as dumb delusional fangirls who love Twilight and 50 Shades (as if). But lo and behold, a male YouTuber puts together this "brand new" theory and suddenly people take it seriously. He got called out on the theft and did update some of the links to give credit, but it's still a pretty bad example of plagiarism. He's also not terribly popular after admitting on social media that being interested in the type of discussion which female fans tend to gravitate to was in part hoping he'd get laid or something.

snufkin wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

snufkin wrote:Haven't heard that particular audio detail, but that particular YouTuber is a plagiarist extraordinaire, having lurked here and other places to steal content/writing from members of this forum.

@snufkin

Oh, really???  I didn't know that! Sorry, should I remove the youtube video?

@Night Huntress

Oh it's been posted here before, so don't worry. But yeah, he's lurked here and on people's blogs because a lot of the content in there was lifted without getting clearance (art work) or giving credit to the essays. There's a whole thread about it in the archives if you're curious. Besides the theft angle, a lot of people were pissed off because it's been a year or so of predominantly female fans discussing this interpretation of TFA/speculating about the ST and getting slagged off as dumb delusional fangirls who love Twilight and 50 Shades (as if). But lo and behold, a male YouTuber puts together this "brand new" theory and suddenly people take it seriously. He got called out on the theft and did update some of the links to give credit, but it's still a pretty bad example of plagiarism. He's also not terribly popular after admitting on social media that being interested in the type of discussion which female fans tend to gravitate to was in part hoping he'd get laid or something.

@snufkin

In spite of the fact he did credit me in this instance, it was a really strange feeling hearing my EXACT words quoted by Vincent from one of our own podcasts.  This wasn't just a one or two sentence blip - this was something that went on for several minutes.  I wasn't sure whether to be flattered or afraid.  

He's not exactly someone that was loved here anyways due to all of the lifting of content without permission, but when he said "How many Reylo videos do I have to make to get la*d around here," any sympathy I had towards him went out the window.    

@Night Huntress It's perfectly fine to leave the video up.  It's chalk full of stellar content none of which was created by Vincent.