Star Wars, Yin and Yang, Philosophy, and Mythology

Those (especially the Asian one) seem to be recurrent themes in the Star Wars franchise.


"Fenghuang" by Dragoncid on Deviantart.

I'll tackle one I haven't seen previously: Jungian psychology.

First my credentials. My BS is in Psychology, minor in English-Creative Writing, MA in Health and Wellness Coaching (which is heavy in using symbolism and imagery with the client). I talk about Jungian psychology on a regular basis in my meditation and sometimes yoga classes and with my coaching clients, especially the Shadow archetype because that is typically what we're dealing with when we're working on problem behaviors/habits. By the way, you're basically about to get a free class/coaching session with this piece. :p

Jungian psychology is incredibly easy to identify in all Star Wars films (and fairy tales/fantasy/myths in general). Jungian archetypes are essentially characters who represent parts of our collective conscious/subconscious that work together to integrate the Self, which is the complete personality. Essentially, our stories and dreams represent this continuous work of the human mind to integrate all its aspects. This is why epics, fairy tales, myths, etc. speak so deeply to us as humans - they speak the greater truth of our inner world, the desire for wholeness. I suspect this is a big reason most Star Wars fans stick with the franchise, and why we ReyLos have such an investment in this OTP .

In TFA Rey is the Hero archetype, the one who must go on the Great Quest to realize her full potential. She represents our Ego in Freudian terms or the front part of our brain, the rational and moral reasoning side, in neurobiology. The Light Side of the Force is of course the frontal brain's concept of goodness. Kylo Ren is her Shadow, our reptile or hind brain, the part of our brain that is in charge of our base instincts, or the Id in Freudian terms. He, and this part of the brain, are the representatives of the Dark Side. The Hero/Ego is typically how the Self thinks of, well, itself. We are the heroes of our stories. The Shadow is the part of the Self that we suppress, deny exists, and project onto others. Our enemies or "villains" as it were are almost always like us in some way. In the words of the schoolyard taunt, it takes one to know one. Kylo Ren is a "monstah" to Rey because he perfectly reflects the fear, rage, and urge to kill she denies exist in herself.

Now interestingly, Kylo Ren has a Shadow too, but contrary to what we might assume because of her association with the Light it's not Rey. It is Ben Solo, the "weak and foolish" boy who is compassionate and who Kylo Ren wants to destroy in order to become more powerful. Kylo Ren denies Ben's existence, but as we see throughout TFA and what is especially apparent by the end is that Ben Solo, Kylo's compassion and capacity for love and human connection, is very much alive and the Light Side wants him back.

So what exactly is Rey to Kylo? We'll come back to that later on...

I'm going to get a little yoga/meditation teacher and wellness coach for a moment with these explanations. And I'm going to get a little into basic neurobiology as well. Our hind/reptile brain or "Dark Side" is in charge of some pretty important functions. It tells us to eat, sleep, mate, among many other basic functions, and is in charge of Fight or Flight. Its associated emotions are fear and anger (Hm...) which are basically the only "feelings" a reptile would have. This part of the brain tells us to flee or kill. Our frontal/rational brain is in charge of highly specialized human functions like language, conceptualization of time, linear thinking, and moral reasoning. It's our "Light Side". Obviously as humans we put a lot of stock in this part of our highly evolved brains and we tend to suppress and deny our "evil" base impulses (*cough cough* Jedi *cough cough*), but those impulses are important. If a killer breaks into my house, it's important that I have the drive to kill that person should I not be able to escape. So clearly Fight or Flight and its associated emotions are important given the right context. They're not evil any more than my impulse to eat or mate. But they can be highly damaging if they get out of control, for instance if I am a habitually angry person who destroys inanimate objects with my lightsaber in a fit of rage :p. Staying chronically in Fight or Flight is actually terrible for your body - it wreaks havoc on your digestion, blood pressure, and heart. (Must be why all the Dark Side users end up so haggard!) The key here is *ding ding ding!* balance. It is my task to understand my Dark or Shadow side and all the reptilian urges associated with it, to shine the Light on it if you will, and bring it into balance by showing it compassion. This is the underlying theme of all Star Wars movies and is an especially apparent message in the relationship between Rey and Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. Kylo being Rey's Shadow represents our need for love and compassion to pull our fear, anger, and base impulses back into the Light, back into balance. (Hence Rey's theme "correcting" Kylo Ren's? Hm...)

The other highly important archetypes regarding ReyLo are Anima and Animus, but I will do that as a second post as this one is already getting rather long. Stay tuned...

Jungian Psychology Part II: Anima and Animus Plus Implications of ReyLo

So what exactly is Rey to Kylo? Jungian archetypes are also where we come across terms such as Wise Old Man/Woman (Obi-Wan "Old Ben" Kenobi and Maz Kanata), but the two other most important archetypes to discuss in terms of ReyLo are the Anima and Animus. The Anima is the totality of feminine qualities present in a man while the Animus is the totality of masculine qualities present in a woman. These qualities are often repressed (less so in modern times I believe, but keep in mind Jungian psychology is from the early 20th century), so they are some of the most powerful unconscious urges and reflexes. They drive how we view and treat the opposite sex, and we often seek out partners who "match" with our Shadow and Anima/Animus. They can even appear to us in dreams. Why does Kylo/Ben look at Rey like she's his dream girl? Perhaps she literally is. In Kylo's words, we'll see.

Anima/Animus is important for ReyLo because in addition to being her Shadow Kylo/Ben is also Rey's Anima while Rey is Kylo's Animus. If you'll notice, I've reversed the terms usually associated with each gender. This is no mistake. In the movie we are presented with a traditionally masculine Rey and a traditionally feminine Ben/Kylo Ren. Kylo looks soft/pretty (it's the hair), displays a twirling and fluid lightsaber style, and is the Prince in need of rescue while Rey, although clearly attractive in a feminine way, looks tomboyish or rough, is aggressive in her fighting style both with her staff and lightsaber, and is likely to be the key to saving Ben Solo (the male damsel in distress), traditionally the male role. Rey embodies the masculine qualities Kylo/Ben buries, perhaps because of issues with his overtly masculine father. Kylo/Ben embodies soft, feminine qualities that Rey has had to bury, likely as a method of survival on Jakku. Both characters' isolation and loneliness only add kindling to the logical conclusion one would draw from a Jungian perspective: Kylo and Rey are or will become sexually and/or romantically attracted to one another because their respective qualities "complete" the other.

Other implications: What Jungian psychology also tells us is that according to the current narrative trajectory, Anakin Skywalker was, in fact, not the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force. Ben Solo and Rey, as a collective unit, are. In Jungian psychology balance/wholeness/integration is not brought about by making sure your negative traits are equal to your positive traits (Sith and Jedi left in equal numbers). Nope, not by a long shot. In Jungian psychology balance is achieved by showing compassion to your Shadow and recognizing the important qualities it brings to the table while not letting it get out of hand. That's it. That's the magic bullet. Not that I think the writers are as balls deep in Jungian psychology as I am, but seriously, what kind of an awful, cynical message would it be if Anakin really was the Chosen One? In the Star Wars universe, I call bullshit. No, on this front Rey and Ben Solo are the droids we're looking for. Romantic love isn't necessary, but in order for balance to be achieved Rey must be able to confront and tame the Kylo Ren within herself (giggity) and recognize the Ben Solo who is crying out for help within him, therefore enabling her to show him love and compassion. Kylo Ren, through Rey's love and compassion, must come to embrace these qualities within himself and therefore bring back Ben Solo. Both Rey and Ben can recognize the value of their Dark/Shadow/Id/Hind brain qualities and choose to hone them when appropriate while still allowing the Light/Hero/Ego/Front brain to guide them. Jungian psychology would tell us that yes, in fact, Grey Jedi are the keepers of balance in the Force.

EDIT: More on Anima and Animus:

Apologies, these totally slipped my mind but are important with regards to ReyLo.

So the Anima/Animus development is broken down into four levels, the fourth being the highest, with their own names. I won't get into all eight. Here are the main takeaways:

By the end of TFA, Kylo sees Rey at the 4th/Sophia level as a fully developed human being capable of both positive and negative qualities. He knows she wants to kill him, he also knows "It is you" when she calls his legacy saber to herself, and he still looks at her in awe and longing after she defeats him. He indicates he also wants to be her 4th/"Man as helpful guide to understanding herself" level when he asks to be her teacher and show her the ways of the Force. He sees them as equals who have things to offer each other. Contrast this with Finn seeming to place Rey at a Level 3 or Mary stage. As far as we know, to him she's still the damsel in distress who is capable of no wrong, hence his repeated attempts to hold her hand and rescue her. Not a truly equitable match.

For ReyLo to successfully take place what we need is for Rey, who sees Kylo as a "monstah" but is physically attracted to him as per the interrogation scene, to go from a Level 1 "Man of mere physical power" to the Level 4 Kylo wants to be for her.

MeadowofAshes wrote:Jungian Psychology Part II: Anima and Animus Plus Implications of ReyLo

So what exactly is Rey to Kylo? Jungian archetypes are also where we come across terms such as Wise Old Man/Woman (Obi-Wan "Old Ben" Kenobi and Maz Kanata), but the two other most important archetypes to discuss in terms of ReyLo are the Anima and Animus. The Anima is the totality of feminine qualities present in a man while the Animus is the totality of masculine qualities present in a woman. These qualities are often repressed (less so in modern times I believe, but keep in mind Jungian psychology is from the early 20th century), so they are some of the most powerful unconscious urges and reflexes. They drive how we view and treat the opposite sex, and we often seek out partners who "match" with our Shadow and Anima/Animus. They can even appear to us in dreams. Why does Kylo/Ben look at Rey like she's his dream girl? Perhaps she literally is. In Kylo's words, we'll see.

Anima/Animus is important for ReyLo because in addition to being her Shadow Kylo/Ben is also Rey's Anima while Rey is Kylo's Animus. If you'll notice, I've reversed the terms usually associated with each gender. This is no mistake. In the movie we are presented with a traditionally masculine Rey and a traditionally feminine Ben/Kylo Ren. Kylo looks soft/pretty (it's the hair), displays a twirling and fluid lightsaber style, and is the Prince in need of rescue while Rey, although clearly attractive in a feminine way, looks tomboyish or rough, is aggressive in her fighting style both with her staff and lightsaber, and is likely to be the key to saving Ben Solo (the male damsel in distress), traditionally the male role. Rey embodies the masculine qualities Kylo/Ben buries, perhaps because of issues with his overtly masculine father. Kylo/Ben embodies soft, feminine qualities that Rey has had to bury, likely as a method of survival on Jakku. Both characters' isolation and loneliness only add kindling to the logical conclusion one would draw from a Jungian perspective: Kylo and Rey are or will become sexually and/or romantically attracted to one another because their respective qualities "complete" the other.

Other implications: What Jungian psychology also tells us is that according to the current narrative trajectory, Anakin Skywalker was, in fact, not the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force. Ben Solo and Rey, as a collective unit, are. In Jungian psychology balance/wholeness/integration is not brought about by making sure your negative traits are equal to your positive traits (Sith and Jedi left in equal numbers). Nope, not by a long shot. In Jungian psychology balance is achieved by showing compassion to your Shadow and recognizing the important qualities it brings to the table while not letting it get out of hand. That's it. That's the magic bullet. Not that I think the writers are as balls deep in Jungian psychology as I am, but seriously, what kind of an awful, cynical message would it be if Anakin really was the Chosen One? In the Star Wars universe, I call bullshit. No, on this front Rey and Ben Solo are the droids we're looking for. Romantic love isn't necessary, but in order for balance to be achieved Rey must be able to confront and tame the Kylo Ren within herself (giggity) and recognize the Ben Solo who is crying out for help within him, therefore enabling her to show him love and compassion. Kylo Ren, through Rey's love and compassion, must come to embrace these qualities within himself and therefore bring back Ben Solo. Both Rey and Ben can recognize the value of their Dark/Shadow/Id/Hind brain qualities and choose to hone them when appropriate while still allowing the Light/Hero/Ego/Front brain to guide them. Jungian psychology would tell us that yes, in fact, Grey Jedi are the keepers of balance in the Force.

Impressive and it's totally make senses, their contrast Dark and Light, everything

@meadowofashes ...

i agree that kylo ren has a shadow, too. i've been thinking about this for a while (not with any great result) but he's a kind of hero by himself, i feel... and i thought that it's the other way around, that kylo ren is ben's shadow actually, because kylo ren is the person he no longer represses.

i think there is some jungian stuff about giving in to the shadow?

i basically get the impression that he is both ben and kylo ren but neither fully. i'm not sure what his personality is actually. i think we are seeing glimpses emerge with the offer to teach perhaps.

@guardienne

Good point! I think with Kylo/Ben the Shadow can be viewed from both directions, especially because he's this "perfect embodiment of the light and dark". It gets a little muddled and open to interpretation with analytical psychology anyway. My interpretation is this: Right now the persona of Kylo Ren has taken over as Kylo/Ben's Hero figure and views Ben as the Shadow he needs to repress. Prior to Kylo Ren taking the helm I am certain Kylo was present as Ben Solo's yet unnamed Shadow, and when Ben Solo comes back to the Light he'll still have Kylo as his Shadow, which is his proper place, as the Shadow figure NOT the Hero, but this time as an integrated Shadow. With Shadow work in the real world, the work is to integrate the Shadow into the personality without allowing it to take the helm. What you call "giving in to the Shadow" is what Ben has done - his Shadow took over as Kylo Ren. Instead, he needs to reclaim his birthright as Ben Solo and integrate Kylo Ren into his Self.

I used to nanny a little boy who showed me a project his class did for winter holiday that featured The Grinch. After watching the cartoon, they had to identify 3 of the Grinch's character traits. Of course the little boy named him as grouchy and mean, but the third trait he listed was "determined". I had to laugh because of course he was! The Grinch's determination not only leads him to successfully steal all the Christmas items from the Whos, it is also a trait that enables him to save said sled full of items and return them to Whoville. Without determination those presents would have gone right over the cliff. Likewise, Kylo Ren has many traits to offer Ben Solo - off the top of my head he is determined, resourceful, and passionate. Like you, I think we're seeing Ben Solo come out to play with the offer to teach, and I would extend that to all Kylo/Ben's interactions with Rey. What we can glean about Ben Solo so far is that he is essentially compassionate. If this man can put his archetypes back where they belong and integrate their qualities, combining his compassion with an appropriate use of his determination, resourcefulness, and passion, can you imagine the power this guy would have? The good Ben Solo could do in the galaxy? THIS is the story I'm hoping to see unfold.

YES! so much!

(sorry i don't know the grinch very well at all)

i think if people are able to see KR neutrally, as a person, and not label him, they can see qualities.

i'm very very interested in the identity struggle within the character. i think i'm doing a lot of that myself, that's why i responded to it quite so strongly. (i'm always so excited when i can't let go of something for ages because it means i've got to figure out what the subject of it is so badly.. like my mind rubs itself against it until forever and with that character it's so obvious but it took me forever to figure it out... anyhow...)

i agree you can do it both ways, ben is kylo's shadow and vice versa.

what i'm wondering about is whether the combined force of kylo and ben (without wanting to stray into split personality territory) will be a different person altogether. i am also speculating into how to do this cinematically.

i'd be very very happy if han and leia's son could emerge from the integrated ruins of kylo and ben. the thing for me is that he can't *revert* to ben, that's not truthful.

anyway, i'm very excited about that.

http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/141360308671/bride-of-the-monstrous-meeting-the-other-in-the

did you write this? i'm sorry i'm getting very confused who is writing what. it's amazing anyhow.

Question: is Finn kylo ren shadow (aka ben solo)? Oooh I'm in love with this archetype of Reylo

guardienne wrote:http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/141360308671/bride-of-the-monstrous-meeting-the-other-in-the

did you write this? i'm sorry i'm getting very confused who is writing what. it's amazing anyhow.

Alas, I did not. But it's "so good I wish I had"!

@Maria Antonietta Now that is an interesting question. Some might say yes, but my personal interpretation is no. I am inclined to see him as a trickster in Kylo's world. The trickster is known for lying, which Finn does not only with Rey but Poe as well ("Why are you helping me?" "It's the right thing to do.") Although he does not outright lie to Kylo, Kylo assumed by letting him off the hook early in the film no damage would come. Finn swiftly proved this wrong by escaping with Poe, earning him the Traitor monicker from Kylo, and later picking up Kylo's legacy lightsaber to fight him. The trickster also exists to make a mockery of the "Big Gods", in this case Kylo, and since Kylo seems to feel Finn's betrayal is personal we can surmise Kylo feels he has been made a fool of by FN-2187.

i thought about the shadow selves a little more. as opposed true selves (i may be mixing things up in my head)

with vader it's the 'true self, you've only forgotten' but to me ben and kylo ren are essentially remnants. i think this is why this is new. like i seriously can't think of a story that has had to integrate like this ... perhaps fight club? i'd really have to see that again.

in a way i guess the scar is a way of integrating the two already. because he can't remove that like he can remove the mask.

@guardienne Yes, Kylo/Ben is such a unique character in the SW universe. Of course Ben is dying to get out and he shows up often, but Kylo hasn't identified as Ben since he was presumably a teenager. That's a long time to live as an alter ego, to the point that I think he'll have to make an entirely new identity that somehow merges Kylo and Ben into someone completely new. Ben is the child figure, which makes me even more sad when I think of him telling Han that Ben Solo is "weak and foolish". So you know he's had a lot of self-loathing since he was a child/teenager, brought on by Snoke, who is just plain creepy with Kylo/Ben in the first place. Ugh, the deeper I dig into Kylo/Ben's character analysis the more disturbed and sad I feel for him.

MeadowofAshes wrote:@Maria Antonietta Now that is an interesting question. Some might say yes, but my personal interpretation is no. I am inclined to see him as a trickster in Kylo's world. The trickster is known for lying, which Finn does not only with Rey but Poe as well ("Why are you helping me?" "It's the right thing to do.") Although he does not outright lie to Kylo, Kylo assumed by letting him off the hook early in the film no damage would come. Finn swiftly proved this wrong by escaping with Poe, earning him the Traitor monicker from Kylo, and later picking up Kylo's legacy lightsaber to fight him. The trickster also exists to make a mockery of the "Big Gods", in this case Kylo, and since Kylo seems to feel Finn's betrayal is personal we can surmise Kylo feels he has been made a fool of by FN-2187.

This is funny because in the other-not-to-be-named forum I had posted about Kylo Ren being the archetype of the Scorpio sign with all the Hades/Persephone and Phoenix mythology influence. The Hades/Persephone is very present when faced with Rey. In the greater scheme, I personally see Phoenix as very fitting especially when it comes to his development in the next movies. He is the one who brought down the old order to ashes when he turned and will help build it anew. The Force - like Fate - demanded this cleansing.

On to Finn, some of us tried to figure out which archetype Finn would fit in. We were a couple of posters going for Gemini. And when I see your trickster idea, it just fits! Gemini is ruled by the planet Mercury and Mercury was the messenger of the Gods who was also prone to trickery. If you think about it Finn is the messenger of the Force. He is the first one who takes the call of the force and spreads the awakening further to Kylo and Rey. And if that involves a bit of trickery (lying to Rey about his involvement in the Resistance), well he will do it while the Scorpio archetype will go for the truth, no matter the consequences.

I find it hilarious that you can apply astrology principles to TFA characters.

Cannot quote from my iPad, but I wanted to correct my previous post. I meant that the main mythological character linked with the planet Mercury is Hermes who was the messenger of the Gods, not Mercury even though they share some characteristics. Posting when you are tired is not a good idea.

When I wached TFA, particularly Kylo’s conversations with Vader’s skull, I was reminded of a story where a form of the God Shiva frequents cremation grounds and carries around the skull of the creator Brahma.



Then it struck me that other concepts in the SW universe like the use of Yin and Yang were also present in Indian mythology. doesn’t see things in a static state of black and white. In many tales, beings of light (Devas) being punished for evil acts, and beings of darkness (Asuras) are given blessings for acts of piety. Even the Gods are understood using the concept of Yin and Yang where deity finds this balance with his/her consort. One depiction of yin and yang is intersecting triangles where the upward pointing triangle represents the male aspect and the downward represents the female.



A good example to understand the dynamic nature of yin and yang is through the God Shiva and his consort. Here the God is Yin and the Goddess is Yang, unlike in Taoism.  So when one of them shows too much of Yin or Yang qualities, the other steps in to create a balance. Both energies are inextricably linked, taming each other to prevent destruction of the cosmos by either extreme.

In some situations, when the normally passive Goddess is faced with evil, she turns fierce and goes on a rampage, destroying everything in her path. This continues until she finds her consort Shiva lying like a corpse in her path and steps on him. Then, she calms down and returns to her peaceful caring self. Similarly, when the Goddess threatens Shiva because she wishes to exert control (over forests and wild spaces), he challenges her to a dance contest, she is unable to match his destructive dance and has to admit defeat.



There is a form of the God Shiva and his consort merged into one body (Ardhanarishvara).... this is about two different but inseparable energies merging to form something complete. These energies are complimentary to one another and are both needed to maintain a balance to sustain the universe. There is also a romantic connotation to this form.... one legend states that they love each other so much that they cannot be seen as separate.

Now in a SW context, one could say that both Jedi and Sith principles are required to bring balance to the force. It is not about destroying both orders, but for both principles to co-exist i.e maybe a return to the time when Force Sensitives accepted and followed the force without distinguishing the light and the dark side of it.... or both will keep trying to destroy the other and eventually destroy the whole galaxy.

In TFA, Rey represents Yang. She lives in a sunny, dry place…. she protects those she cares about…. she gets along with people and is depicted in whitish attire. In contrast, Kylo represents Yin. He lives in a dark spaceship (the Finalizer) and sometimes in dark snowy places like Starkiller base…. he covers himself in black to block out the light…. he is cold and distant, interacting mostly with Snoke and Vader’s helmet.

Now Rey and Kylo’s relationship is interesting after they meet because they both start displaying characteristics of the other. Rey who is warm and likeable but can turn into a fierce and snarling warrior when interacting with Kylo. On the other hand, there is Kylo who is cold and angry, but softens and becomes calm when interacting with Rey.  



I also find it interesting that the legacy lightsaber plays an important role in Rey and Kylo’s story. The crystal in a lightsaber is considered its heart.

There is a saying-
The heart of Vishnu is Shiva and the heart of Shiva is Vishnu.

Shiva (the destroyer) represents the white colour or the static principle, while Vishnu (the preserver) represents the black or dynamic principle. (The name Krishna- an avatar of Vishnu- means black) So both have the black and white elements co-exist and reside in the heart of the other.



In the context of Rey and Kylo, Both are connected to the lightsaber, so it can be argued that both are connected at the heart, romantically and/or spiritually.

Star Wars' connections to Indian mythology are so interesting, starting with the names of the mother goddesses, Padma and Lakshmi. I think there's plenty of material to be investigated there... perhaps even too much! The connections are especially interesting if you consider the musical allusions to "Across the Stars" and the possibility that Ren and Rey might be "reincarnations" of Anakin and Padme (metaphorical rather than literal), to fix the mistakes of the previous incarnations.

There's been some discussion of Ren as Shiva:

http://peace-passion-reylo.tumblr.com/post/139940149973/kylo-ren-fire-and-ash

@Darth Dingleberry..... thanks for sharing the write-up....I had a hard time narrowing down which aspect of Indian mythology to cover since there are so many things that could be used in the SW context.

Kylo reminds me a little of the God Shiva, particularly being dispassionate, the ashes, the skull, the preference for solitude and contemplation but capable of intense emotions as well.... I really like the observation that the silver lines on Kylo's helmet are like the ash markings on Shiva's forehead (Ash represents detachment.....so going by that analogy, it is curious that he takes off the same helmet for Rey).



It would be interesting if they did make Kylo and Rey the reincarnations of Padme and Anakin ....I don't know if they'll bring in concepts like reincarnation into the SW universe but there is always a first time for everything.

Oh, I hope they're not really reincarnations! I only meant in the metaphorical sense - like a pair of mythological immortal lovers in a new form.

Once again I'm intrigued by King Prana, as "prana" is a Hindu term for cosmic energy, the same meaning as the name of Shiva's spouse Shakti. Both words represent the Force, so to speak.

I can't help but wonder if Prana plays a role in the ST, and if he's even connected to Rey in some way.

I only meant in the metaphorical sense - like a pair of mythological immortal lovers in a new form.

Very VERY intriguing! That would mean they were predestined to meet? If we follow this, could he somehow have known about it, hence him treating Rey differently? Hence him reacting to "the girl" mentioned? I'm probably reaching, but I like the idea...

MissG wrote:

I only meant in the metaphorical sense - like a pair of mythological immortal lovers in a new form.

Very VERY intriguing! That would mean they were predestined to meet? If we follow this, could he somehow have known about it, hence him treating Rey differently? Hence him reacting to "the girl" mentioned? I'm probably reaching, but I like the idea...

I like it too Predestined lovers, predestined to meet. In the words of Ren himself, "Don't fight it... you know you can't."

Off topic but was that line supposed to be in the film? I don't think it was in the novels either? But Ren's action figure says it. I tried to Google it and came across some hilariously prophetic reactions to these lines from last September

http://www.themarysue.com/captain-phasma-kylo-ren-first-lines/

Just judging from the overall content, we can safely assume that Kylo Ren is a lover, not a fighter. “I feel it too”? That’s so sweet. That means someone professes their love for him first. But of course, he goes on to say, “I’m immune to the light,” which clearly means he doesn’t believe himself to be good enough for his partner. Kylo Ren, you are lovely just the way you are. His journey is so totally one of self-acceptance, am I right, folks? “I’ve been waiting for this for a long time”? Love has its own mysterious ways, and I am so glad that Kylo Ren seems to be finding his.

But there may be trouble in paradise. Kylo Ren’s “Is it true? You’re just a scavenger?” line reveals that he’s got some privilege biases to get over. Your job doesn’t define you, Kylo Ren. You’d do well to know that, Sith-not-Sith.

Anyway, you can all now go ahead and tweet or Facebook these totally true facts about Star Wars: The Force Awakens. When it turns out to be a romcom set in a coffee shop far, far away, you can go ahead and tell ’em that you read it here first at The Mary Sue.

Interesting tidbit: the union of Shiva and Shakti is the purpose of the Kundalini awakening.

Awakening.

MeadowofAshes wrote:@guardienne Yes, Kylo/Ben is such a unique character in the SW universe. Of course Ben is dying to get out and he shows up often, but Kylo hasn't identified as Ben since he was presumably a teenager. That's a long time to live as an alter ego, to the point that I think he'll have to make an entirely new identity that somehow merges Kylo and Ben into someone completely new. Ben is the child figure, which makes me even more sad when I think of him telling Han that Ben Solo is "weak and foolish". So you know he's had a lot of self-loathing since he was a child/teenager, brought on by Snoke, who is just plain creepy with Kylo/Ben in the first place. Ugh, the deeper I dig into Kylo/Ben's character analysis the more disturbed and sad I feel for him.

it's a very disturbing character actually, i'm still surprised they smuggled him past the powers that be.

there are all sorts of intimations and having him in my head isn't always a very pleasant experience.

my idea is that snoke gives him an excuse to start with kylo ren, because i think that self-loathing was there before. ben can't have been a happy bunny, snoke must have had some leverage, so ben was already feeling wildly unaccepted.

i find this stuff so complicated, like if he's a shadow to her but then he is his own shadow??!! how very dare they!

ugh, i still need to get my head around the animus thing.

People are always stuck on the binary: good vs evil, light vs dark, etc. Even the beloved yin yang is binary. But I think more wisdom is found in the trinary. Good, evil, and the middle. Light, dark, and the gray.
There's a yin yang I've seen that actually has three parts. I think that is much better.

Darth Dingleberry wrote:Interesting tidbit: the union of Shiva and Shakti is the purpose of the Kundalini awakening.

Awakening.

Awesome analogy....

The male (Yang) and female (Yin) energies weave, crossing each other and rising along a central channel (The Force).....the awakening is only the beginning.......the end is perfection. In the case of Rey and Kylo, they are only going to get more and more powerful....the chances of pitfalls increase....but the end result is a true balance of the Force.