military views

not sure where to stick this or if it's even interesting to anyone here ...  there's some interesting military analysis from some bloggers (who understand military history a lot better than i do)

https://angrystaffofficer.com/2017/12/18/a-leadership-vacuum-the-last-jedi-and-mission-failure/

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-the-last-jedi-teaches-us-the-battleship-truly-dead-23765

i also dimly recall that johnson was heavily influenced by some WW2 movies, not sure which.

anyway, just leaving it here for your consideration  

@guardienne I love Angry Staff Officer! Thanks for posting these.

So the big thing I took away from it with my layman knowledge of American history is that retreating successfully is really how revolts are won. It's certainly how the American Revolution was won in the South. Daniel Morgan's forces just kept retreating faster than the heavy British army could pursue, and Cornwallis kept having to burn supplies. Which eventually led to him being cornered in Yorktown.

I'm kind of fascinated with overanalyzing military tactics of Star Wars. There's a great article about the Empire failure at Hoth.

I'm also kind of weirded out by the way that Holdo basically does the same thing they were giving Poe hell for. Did her sacrifice of the last Resistance capital ship achieve a significant military gain? Maybe. But maybe not.

@MeadowofAshes Dunno if you read War on the Rocks, but they've weighed in

CLAUSEWITZ AS THE LAST JEDI? CULMINATING POINTS OF VICTORY, CIVIL-MILITARY RELATIONS, AND STRATEGY IN STAR WARS

The Last Jedi illustrates how defiant military officers, emboldened by early operational successes, can undermine broader strategic objectives set by political leaders at a campaign’s outset. This is precisely the fate that befalls Poe Dameron (Oscar Issac), the Resistance’s top starfighter pilot, who disobeys the orders of General Leia Organa (Carrie Fisher) to pull back and instead directs a squadron of glacially slow Resistance bombers to take out a fearsome First Order dreadnought. Emboldened by the success they initially deliver during an evacuation of the Resistance base on D’Qar, Dameron’s starfighters ultimately destroy the dreadnought, but not before the First Order wipes out the entire Resistance bomber fleet and several escort vessels.

By pursuing tactical gains that extend beyond the operational objective at hand, Dameron proves himself susceptible to the same “victory disease” that Clausewitz diagnoses in 19th century military commanders. By insisting on the subordination of military means to the policy objectives they serve — and, by extension, the subordination of operational and tactical elements to overall military strategy — Clausewitz cautions in On War against the temptation of soldiers to pursue success in operational art at the expense of broader strategic imperatives.

In Dameron’s case, he trades the entire Resistance bombing fleet for the destruction of a single, replaceable First Order warship (albeit one with massive firepower). Doing so proves both operationally unnecessary in facilitating the Resistance evacuation and excessively costly through the mass slaughter of trained starfighter pilots needed for the Resistance’s survival.

By taking on the dreadnought, Dameron overshoots what Clausewitz (Book VII, Ch. 22) calls the “culminating point of victory,” the moment in battle that an attacking force, having achieved superiority over its adversary, ought to halt its advance and consolidate its gains rather than continue fighting. Clausewitz writes,

If one were to go beyond that point it would not merely be a useless effort which could not add to success. It would in fact be a damaging one, which would lead to a reaction; and experience goes to show that such reactions usually have completely disproportionate effects.

By fortifying one’s current position rather than extending it for some greater advantage, Clausewitz argues the attacker will be able to translate this battlefield superiority into strategic success in the larger engagement. “But one must know the point to which it can be carried in order not to overshoot the target,” Clausewitz cautions, “otherwise instead of gaining new advantages, one will disgrace oneself.”

Ironically, Dameron learns this lesson almost too well, because he undershoots this culminating point later during the Battle of Crait. Staging a last stand to protect the handful of surviving Resistance fighters who have taken refuge on the salt planet, Dameron leads a squadron of clunky land speeders to destroy the latest First Order superweapon: a powerful siege cannon with lasers that can obliterate hardened defenses. As the Resistance suffers heavy losses against the First Order’s AT-M6 walkers, Dameron orders the remaining fighters to fall back rather than continue in what amounts to a suicide mission against the First Order’s ground forces.

Although this restraint is induced by Dameron’s earlier losses, the retreat he orders once again appears divorced from the broader strategic realities at play. When Gen. Organa ordered Dameron to fall back when he took on the dreadnought, she did so because she wanted to preserve the Resistance starfighter fleet for future, more strategically significant operations.

this is so cute: https://taskandpurpose.com/onscreen-science-fiction-military-justice

You wouldn’t know by looking at Starship Troopers, Avatar, or Star Wars: Episode II. They drop in from space in fragile, helicopter-type vehicles, directly into the enemy defenses. They can literally land anywhere else on the planet, but they choose to land right in front of enemy laser cannon.

Amphibious landings aren’t that common in science fiction, probably because space isn’t known for beaches, but in Star Wars: Episode III, wookiees attack the beaches like a hairy version of Saving Private Ryan. They may look like dirty hippies, but we know they can fly --- Chewbacca is Han Solo’s co-pilot, for crying out loud. Why do they drive slow moving watercraft directly onto an enemy beach instead of landing, well, anywhere else on the entire planet?

I guess if they acted sensibly it would all be very boring and there would be no action!

A lot of people said similar things about Signs...why, of all planets, did the water fearing aliens land on one that was two thirds water?

Okay, anyone mind if I talk a little about Hux here?
I was thinking about TLJ, and although we got some laughs out of Hux, at the end I think RJ showed him as a very real threat - to Kylo. Let's look at the facts, but also look at Rey while we are doing it.
Kylo was a powerful FS but I am convinced that he did not inspire any respect in the FO except from fear. Their leader was Hux, and he made that very plain. Loathsome though he was, Hux was a brilliant tactician and war leader, as shown by his actions in TLJ - after Poe made a fool of him he immediately summoned a dreadnought, which as Poe said was a fleet killer - the only way that the Resistance could destroy it was to kill off half their pilots. He designed and created Starkiller. Most of all, he came up with the idea of creating a device that could track a fleet through hyperspace.
These qualities would earn him the respect of his followers. Kylo meanwhile, was only respected because of his powers. He clearly showed signs of being mentally unstable, not just in the 'tantrums' but the way he reacted to Luke's arrival on Crait - he ordered them to repeatedly fire until Hux told them to call it off. These traits, although showing him as the tortured soul he was, would have only earned him scorn among the ruthless officers of the FO.
Rey wanted Kylo to 'call off' the Resistance - but could he? Hux made a point of telling him at the end of TLJ that he had no right to command his army, thus cementing the fact that HE was running the show - Kylo had to Force choke him to get him to accept him as Supreme Leader. Snoke commanded respect. But he was a master at deviance and cunning. Kylo was all heart and emotions. Darth Vader, although evil, was ice cool and composed, whereas Kylo was vulnerable, impulsive and ruled by his emotions. Yet even Vader deferred to Tarkin, and he only took over as leader after Tarkin was killed on the Death Star, presumably with the Emperor's blessing. And when Kylo had killed Snoke - he lied and told him Rey had done it, instead of saying something along the lines of the Supreme Leader being inept, or words to that effect. This showed perfectly how precarious Kylo's position was, in that he had to lie to assume command.

I'm absolutely sure that RJ was setting up a 'military coup' for the next film, with Hux finding a way to oust Kylo and take over. I'll never forget that one moment where he was watching Kylo on his knees of Crait - her reminded me of my cats when they watch birds, that look of anticipation. One mistake, one false move, and he would have him.

We are all disappointed at the treatment of Adam and Kelly in TROS - but let's not forget how shameful they treated Domnhall as well. He could have been a fantastic 'big bad' if in TROS he'd ousted Kylo; no 'magical powers', but plenty of tactical skills combined with utter ruthlessness would have made him an enemy to be feared. TROS treated him like an afterthought. The Hux I love to hate would NEVER have teamed up with the Resistance - he would have gotten rid of Kylo through his own cunning.

And finally....I'm sorry, but the more I look back on Rey the more I actually started to dislike her in TLJ, at least at the end. I can't get it out of my head that she left Kylo to die on the Supremacy. For all she knew the ship was about to explode. Yes, she left him his lightsabre but fat lot of good that would have done him on an exploding ship!
Rey had seen him kill Snoke - for her. His distress at Snoke torturing her showed he cared about her. He fought alongside her against his guards. And clumsy though his 'proposal' was, he was sincere. He put his heart on his sleeve by offering her his hand. And when she awoke first....
Why didn't she take him with her? She could have used the Force to lift him, put him on the shuttle with her, and if she didn't want to take him to the Resistance with her, she could have left him alone somewhere with the shuttle after joining Chewie. She knew he was conflicted, she saw it in his head. She owed him that at least.
Luke remember, got his dying father off the Death Star at the end of ROTJ. Rey flew off without a backward glance then had the cheek to glare imperiously at Kylo at the end before waltzing off with the Resistance. She left him to die. And then in TROS we must sympathise with REy because SHE was the one who was 'disappointed'.
Lord how I hate TROS.