Knights of Ren

snufkin wrote:@vaderito they put a ton of detail and action (and misdirection w/the rocks) in that part to make you wonder how it's signficant. If not going for Salad Bowl as in "homie don't touch my bae," then what? And the breaking the 4th wall body language of walking towards her is out of character w/out the clenched hands, not as aggressive.

@snufkin

We'll see. But I'm more and more convinced that Forceback was just meaningless mess consisted of scenes that looked kinda cool.

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:@vaderito they put a ton of detail and action (and misdirection w/the rocks) in that part to make you wonder how it's signficant. If not going for Salad Bowl as in "homie don't touch my bae," then what? And the breaking the 4th wall body language of walking towards her is out of character w/out the clenched hands, not as aggressive.

@snufkin

We'll see. But I'm more and more convinced that Forceback was just meaningless mess consisted of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@vaderito

Well, that would suck, but I can sympathise. I have these moments sometimes when I feel like TFA was just a meaningless mess of scenes that looked kinda cool.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Well, that would suck, but I can sympathise. I have these moments sometimes when I feel like TFA was just a meaningless mess of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@Darth Dingbat

Not far from truth. They'll retcon on quite a few things for drama sake. All sequels do that.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:@vaderito they put a ton of detail and action (and misdirection w/the rocks) in that part to make you wonder how it's signficant. If not going for Salad Bowl as in "homie don't touch my bae," then what? And the breaking the 4th wall body language of walking towards her is out of character w/out the clenched hands, not as aggressive.

@snufkin

We'll see. But I'm more and more convinced that Forceback was just meaningless mess consisted of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@vaderito

Well, that would suck, but I can sympathise. I have these moments sometimes when I feel like TFA was just a meaningless mess of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@Darth Dingbat

Me, too. What's the point of making this dynamic so cool? Just for give the audience a lot of fan service and watch everybody try to kill everybody? That fu****g leak is so bad, everybody seems so ooc...

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:@vaderito they put a ton of detail and action (and misdirection w/the rocks) in that part to make you wonder how it's signficant. If not going for Salad Bowl as in "homie don't touch my bae," then what? And the breaking the 4th wall body language of walking towards her is out of character w/out the clenched hands, not as aggressive.

@snufkin

We'll see. But I'm more and more convinced that Forceback was just meaningless mess consisted of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@vaderito

Well, that would suck, but I can sympathise. I have these moments sometimes when I feel like TFA was just a meaningless mess of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@Darth Dingbat

Me, too. What's the point of making this dynamic so cool? Just for give the audience a lot of fan service and watch everybody try to kill everybody? That fu****g leak is so bad, everybody seems so ooc...

@Maria Antonietta

Trying to figure this out collectively feels like group therapy. We're at least at Step 4, Depression, before Acceptance kicks in.

They could be shooting the part where Kylo kills Salad Bowl at Pinewood rather than on location. Rey must have seen that for a reason, it has to happen.

Sometimes while looking for one thing, you might find another. While I was busy hunting Rey Kenobi clues, I stumbled on this weird correspondence between Rey's vision andHan & Kylo' s bridge confrontation with the movie Shane. Long story short, the novel Kenobi by Jonathan Jackson Miller a success in every way, the novel made the bestseller list and was well received by fans and critics alike. Kenobi, is in some ways modeled after the classic western Shane, however, the novel and the movie have very different endings.  I won't spoil that for those who may wish to read the novel themselves.

What JJ may have done was use one of the most iconic screen moment's in movie history for Rey's vision, "Shane! Come back!" - #77 Top 100 Movie Moments, For the Han & Kylo scene on the bridge, the pacing, angles of shots, and themes are very similar to the conversation that Joey has with Shane.... JJ was digging deep on this call back.




So what is this doing in the Knights of Ren thread, well this is where it gets really interesting.....

Shane was an incredibly influential movie, which is often surprising to us today. Both Woody Allen and Akira Kurosawa admire(d) the film and the latter's Seven Samurai bears a striking resemblance to it

GL love of the Seven Samurai and all things Kirasawa are well documented, it does look like JJ has followed suit, both visual, and thematic and maybe even dug that well deeper to Kurosawa's own influences in the American western.










I am not going to do a deep meta about this subject, however I will briefly describe the circle of influence and how that leads us to TFA & Kylo & the Knights of Ren and what they all have in common and why JJ is going there.

Shane
Yojimbo
A Fistful of Dollars ( Dollars Trilogy) Sergio Leone Dir.
The Seven Samurai
The Magnificent Seven

Star Wars IV

These movies are all basically covering the same themes and are remakes of the each other.  What GL did different with Star Wars IV was set these themes in space, also GL's narrative is different, he adds the hero's journey, the Hidden Fortress, with the storytelling styles of Kirasawa, and comes up with something new and different. However, JJ seams to be returning a portion of this tale to it's roots in Shane & Kirasawa.



Okay, to bring this back to Kylo & the Knights of Ren,

Shane, The Seven Samurai, & The Man with No Name ( Clint Eastwood from the Dollars Trilogy)  are all morally gray characters, that is the underlying thematic stream that connects them, warriors, with mysterious pasts in which they may or may not have committed sins or atrocities, but could be hired guns/ or bounty hunters..."but the buried psychology of this movie is a mottled, uneasy, fascinating gray." Roger Ebert.   And this is where the conversation between Joey & Shane at the end becomes relevant, so similar to the one Han & Kylo have on the bridge.


I gotta be going on.

             Why, Shane?

             A man has to be what he is, Joey. Can't break the mould.

             - I tried it and it didn't work for me. - We want you, Shane.

             Joey, there's no living with a killing. There's no going back from one.

             Right or wrong, it's a brand. A brand sticks.

            There's no going back.

             Now you run on home to your mother, and tell her...

             ...tell her everything's all right and there aren't any more guns in the valley.

             Shane...

             It's bloody! You're hurt!

             I'm all right, Joey.

             Go home to your mother and father and grow up to be strong and straight.

             And, Joey...

             Take care of them, both of them.

             Yes, Shane.

             He'd never have shot you if you'd seen him!

             Bye, little Joe.

             He'd never even have cleared the holster, would he, Shane?

             Pa's got things for you to do! And Mother wants you!

             I know she does!

             Shane!
Shane!

             Come back!

Here is a short video, "explaining" Star Wars, why I am putting it here, is it makes a connection that I did not know about, which is Boba Fett & A Man With No Name, Clint Eastwood from the Dollars trilogy, and also gives the exact visual parallel with the Knights of Ren & Seven Samurai,

Has anyone heard of this book:


"Star Wars: Galactic Atlas is an upcoming reference book that will be published by Egmont UK Ltd in November, 2016. An atlas with full-color illustrations by Tim McDonagh, it will cover all seven Star Wars films, as well as Star Wars Rebels, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, novels, and comics.

Explore the worlds and stories of a galaxy far, far away with this lavishly illustrated Galactic Atlas! Follow the beasts, battles, heroes and villains of the Star Wars saga all the way from the deserts of Tatooine to the ice plains of Hoth.

Stunning full-colour illustrations by Tim McDonagh
Covers all seven films, as well as Star Wars Rebels, The Clone Wars, novels and comics
A perfect gift for fans of all ages!"

This book is being used as a reference for some information on Wookieepedia I don't think has been confirmed yet? I'm not sure.

I first saw it on The Knights of Ren page where it is linked with the line: "The Knights of Ren slew Luke Skywalker's generation of Jedi."

I also appears on the Destruction of Luke Skywalker's Jedi page. It lists them as "combatants" and says "The Knights of Ren destroy the new generation of Jedi being trained by Luke Skywalker."

How the authors of these articles are drawing information from a book that isn't even out yet, I don't know. I guess some people have early access to it? I would like to see the original source material. Has it been confirmed anywhere else that the Knights of Ren were present when Kylo Ren turned against Luke and his new generation of Jedi? It is something many have assumed, I believe, but has never been confirmed? However it is written in the Galactic Atlas might also confirm whether of not Luke's students were truly killed, since many are suspicious with word choice "destroy" in most references.

It also shows Kylo Ren wasn't acting alone, if he did kill all the jedi. It wasn't like how Anakin massacred all the younglings all by himself, with them totally defenseless. It makes it sound more like a battle between two sides. The page lists the KOR and Luke's students as "combatants."

I also wonder if perhaps Kylo Ren even had an affiliation with the Knights of Ren even before he finally turned against Luke. Perhaps his interest in them was what got Leia concerned enough to send him to Luke. I imagine it took some time for him the climb the ranks to "master of the Knights of Ren." It depends on if he was a leader or not at the time he turned, I guess. But if he was joining the Knights in battle against Luke's students, it sounds like he must've been at least somewhat familiar with them before that.

Edit: It also looks like a really cool book just from the cover art, even. I kind of want it.

jakkusun wrote:Has anyone heard of this book:


"Star Wars: Galactic Atlas is an upcoming reference book that will be published by Egmont UK Ltd in November, 2016. An atlas with full-color illustrations by Tim McDonagh, it will cover all seven Star Wars films, as well as Star Wars Rebels, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, novels, and comics.

Explore the worlds and stories of a galaxy far, far away with this lavishly illustrated Galactic Atlas! Follow the beasts, battles, heroes and villains of the Star Wars saga all the way from the deserts of Tatooine to the ice plains of Hoth.

Stunning full-colour illustrations by Tim McDonagh
Covers all seven films, as well as Star Wars Rebels, The Clone Wars, novels and comics
A perfect gift for fans of all ages!"

This book is being used as a reference for some information on Wookieepedia I don't think has been confirmed yet? I'm not sure.

I first saw it on The Knights of Ren page where it is linked with the line: "The Knights of Ren slew Luke Skywalker's generation of Jedi."

I also appears on the Destruction of Luke Skywalker's Jedi page. It lists them as "combatants" and says "The Knights of Ren destroy the new generation of Jedi being trained by Luke Skywalker."

How the authors of these articles are drawing information from a book that isn't even out yet, I don't know. I guess some people have early access to it? I would like to see the original source material. Has it been confirmed anywhere else that the Knights of Ren were present when Kylo Ren turned against Luke and his new generation of Jedi? It is something many have assumed, I believe, but has never been confirmed? However it is written in the Galactic Atlas might also confirm whether of not Luke's students were truly killed, since many are suspicious with word choice "destroy" in most references.

It also shows Kylo Ren wasn't acting alone, if he did kill all the jedi. It wasn't like how Anakin massacred all the younglings all by himself, with them totally defenseless. It makes it sound more like a battle between two sides. The page lists the KOR and Luke's students as "combatants."

I also wonder if perhaps Kylo Ren even had an affiliation with the Knights of Ren even before he finally turned against Luke. Perhaps his interest in them was what got Leia concerned enough to send him to Luke. I imagine it took some time for him the climb the ranks to "master of the Knights of Ren." It depends on if he was a leader or not at the time he turned, I guess. But if he was joining the Knights in battle against Luke's students, it sounds like he must've been at least somewhat familiar with them before that.

Edit: It also looks like a really cool book just from the cover art, even. I kind of want it.

@jakkusun

Very interesting. That seems like kind of a huge deal to have slipped out pre-publication.

I guess the legitimacy would depend on whether or not the book is canon...if not, it's probably just the same speculation that we've seen all over the internet. I do recall that there was that one magazine/book thing a few months back that people thought was official, but that Pablo debunked.

@ISeeAnIsland
Oh yeah, this debunking? Looks like he only debunked the part about Kylo founding the Knights of Ren. Sounds like it was an editing oversight. Otherwise, the part about Kylo Ren killing the students he seems to say is "spot on." I don't really remember that part of this tweet exchange, huh.

KOR Tweets:

source

Still, who knows how accurate this new Galactic Atlas will be.

Someone has posted a really unique and interesting theory on the identity of the KOR....



I personally don't subscribe to the above theory.... I think the KOR could even be a retcon of Imperial Sentinels, clones created to serve Palpatine's dark side adepts.

An upcoming Star Wars comic features a Yoda story written in the diaries of Obi-wan (and later read by Luke). It takes place before the Clone Wars (Qui Gon and a very young Obi-wan make an appearance) and Yoda is around 800 years old.

What is interesting is that the story is based on a new planet that has a different sort of  culture on it....the preview cover art shows Yoda fighting some characters wearing costumes and carrying weapons very similar to the KOR, especially in the concept art. Maybe Luke visits this planet with Ben Solo after reading about it in the diary....and Ben gets abducted by the KOR.....

i can honestly say that i would hate the idea of the KOR being battle droids.

guardienne wrote:i can honestly say that i would hate the idea of the KOR being battle droids.

@guardienne

I hate the idea as well and I don't think they are droids.....but I like the idea of an ancient order belonging to some planet where they have a culture of survival of the fittest.....then maybe an abducted Ben Solo became master of the KOR by fighting some of its members to the death...thus increasing his feeling that his family betrayed and abandoned him.

I really think the guys fighting Yoda look like the KOR....look at their hoods, blasters and staffs....they look identical to the concept art of the KOR in the Art of TFA.

There is also one more thing- there was a rumor that a Yoda anthology movie on the lines of the seven samurai was proposed to LF by Zack Snyder but the idea fell through- maybe they recycled the story and made it into a comic book instead?

@panki my friend had this whacky idea that they are like the 7 dwarves because snow white and everything! and i love that.

you are right the images look similar. i do wonder if they'd kidnapped him and such, why would he become their master, though? you know, i feel like there's willingness on his part and a sense of duty perhaps? i have no idea. i feel like because they are called the knights of ren, i need them to be some inverted form of knights. something that justifies the title?

i find it so funny that when i think of kylo, the master of the knights, and the way he hands over his sabre to han with a gesture that is so much to do with honour and some kind of code that maybe only he still follows -- you know, it's like, i really hope they are setting the dark side up to be about this kind of honour because it's about bloody time?! he is so old-school about these things, it's so weird and refreshing because everythign he does seems to eb invested with meaning, everything that the film does around him is all very meaningful...

anyway, so, battle droids are out, i'm sorry, a particular spcies from a distant planet that is all about the survival of the fittest, yeah, maybe. but it doesn't really enhance the meaning. not for me at the moment.

guardienne wrote:@panki my friend had this whacky idea that they are like the 7 dwarves because snow white and everything! and i love that.

you are right the images look similar. i do wonder if they'd kidnapped him and such, why would he become their master, though? you know, i feel like there's willingness on his part and a sense of duty perhaps? i have no idea. i feel like because they are called the knights of ren, i need them to be some inverted form of knights. something that justifies the title?

i find it so funny that when i think of kylo, the master of the knights, and the way he hands over his sabre to han with a gesture that is so much to do with honour and some kind of code that maybe only he still follows -- you know, it's like, i really hope they are setting the dark side up to be about this kind of honour because it's about bloody time?! he is so old-school about these things, it's so weird and refreshing because everythign he does seems to eb invested with meaning, everything that the film does around him is all very meaningful...

anyway, so, battle droids are out, i'm sorry, a particular spcies from a distant planet that is all about the survival of the fittest, yeah, maybe. but it doesn't really enhance the meaning. not for me at the moment.

@guardienne

I agree....battle droids would be boring.

I like the idea of a planet with a warrior culture very much, where people return with their shields or on them...where might is right and they follow a warrior code....we've already seen the Mandalorians follow something on these lines....then the canon comics have one more planet called Chagar IX with fighting pits where even a 4 year old is not exempt from witnessing death....only victors earn respect and the losers die. Mandalorians have a rule where someone can fight the existing leader and on defeating (and killing) them, take their position (as in the case of Darth Maul and Pre Vizsla)....maybe other planets do too.

So if Kylo was on the planet (voluntarily or not- I like the idea of abduction but it is not mandatory in this theory), he might have killed the previous leader of the KOR and got his title - Master of the KOR.

If he were a prisoner, the Order of the KOR are sticklers for rules of combat, they would have accepted him as Master under those circumstances even if he were an outsider or a prisoner.... while he would stay with them either out of a sense of duty or if he was their prisoner, out of anger towards his family for abandoning him and leaving him to die.

If he was on that planet of his own volition, maybe the KOR are not bad guys....a bit like snow white and the seven dwarves meets thunderdome....after Kylo proves his strength, maybe they make him their leader and are loyal and protective of him?

@panki yes to more warrior culture! we need more that has to do with honour and not fighting dirty. i was talkig to a friend yesterday about david & goliath and how dishonourable that fight was.

i don't think snoke trusts his commitment fully and by his own admission, neither does he. i kind of see this person who doesn't struggle with the idea but with the practice. and in a 'normal' religious person, i'd say this is pretty normal. i think what snoke asks of him is very rigid and inhuman. so it's not surprising he struggles with it. it's not surprising he struggles with killing his father, it's just not in his nature. so, maybe snoke is being naive about how much he can mold him? i really don't know.

but back to the knights, the knights of ren who are in search of the sangrail. yes, if he bested their leader they might have had to accept him. he's not supposed to be their founding father, is he? i get confused about this. he's have to establish himself. i keep thinking of achilles and the myrmidons but i think he was in charge of them simple because he was king anyway.

i love the serendipitous nature of these things... so i'm learning more about kurosawa and his cinema and up pops this video (warning: details are definitely on the gruesome side) and it feels so relevant to the KOR, also because of kurosawa, really, isn't star wars all over kurosawa? XD

but also, relevant to the video, my understanding is that books such as hagakure and bushido, essentially guides on how to behave on and off the battlefield, were compiled in order to promote honour amongst warriors. because you want people like that to be disciplined.

reposting from the identites thread because this seems relevant here?



i wrote a sort of running commentary.

this is pretty good. apparently the first group of knights were only 9?

and they were all related

f**** this is so accurate... to become a knight templar you had to be nobly born already a knight and willing to give up all your worldly possessions.

god i love the people who researched for this movie

especially trained and especially ruthless special forces

i really hope the KOR aren't going to make a one-off appearance only

if they left the order, they would have faced execution or life-long slavery. they were like kamikaze fighters. you don't leave the battlefield until the templar flag went down.

they were under leadership only from the pope himself... god this sounds wonky. the pope could command them is what i'm saying

they had a grandmaster. so that would be kylo?

essentially they become corrupted by wealth. but when we meet the KOR they aren't in that position yet. they are treasure hunters. but i like the idea that we don't actually know what the sangrail is.

that's something that should pop into the story i think but we can't know what it is yet. dammit

i think some of this is about how uneasy a trained warrior makes people unless they are subjugated to serve you directly. you are allowed power but only if you are serving the right people. that's what i'm getting from a lot of the reylo fics, that kylo once he pledges allegiance to the rebellistance he's fine to wield his power, but he's too dangerous to be left alive if he works for snoke. no thanks

oh so the initiation was illegal according to church laws because it was not done by a priest...

omigod they are getting on to john the baptist! is this about luke?

luke can't be a relic yet, but he may have a priceless relic?

ahahaha switzerland was founded on the stray knights templar military skills

well that was pretty good.

i loved the bit where they are sharing a horse because they are too poor to have enough horses.

---

i think it fits very well with what little we know and now i'm even more excited to see the knights properly.

I suddenly had this thought regarding the KOR....First a little background....

1. We know that Luke was traveling around the galaxy trying to collect jedi lore....in parallel, the acolytes of the beyond were traveling around the galaxy collecting sith artifacts and killing people, including people on Devaron (the place Luke promised to visit with his new order and where Luke had friends who were probably killed).

2. We also know that one of the first places Luke visited was Gatalenta (Bloodline novel), a place with a strong jedi tradition and where people preached love and compassion.

3. The comic series Shattered Empire shows that Luke had no problem killing unarmed people, which goes against the jedi code...hence he had a violent streak post Endor and had no problem killing those he deemed the bad guys.

4. Another thing we learn is that Luke and Kylo were traveling all over the galaxy, that Luke was now seen as a mythical figure with influence only among his acolytes and that they were last visiting a place with high radiation levels and so contacting them was not possible (Bloodline).

5. It has also been confirmed that Ben Solo was Luke's best pupil.

6. The name Kylo Ren is unusual as Kylo contains both the names Skywalker and Solo- if Ben hated his family so much, why would he retain those names?

7. It was a tradition for jedi padawans/younglings to form clans (for example: the Bear Clan are part of canon and appear in AOTC)...there were many clans and the clan members grew up and trained together....these clans normally had a leader from among themselves.


Bear Clan

Here is my theory-

The word "Ren" means love, altruism- not exactly the name of a bunch of evil dark siders.

So maybe the KOR were a group formed after visiting Gatalenta, following the principles Luke and his students studied there. After all, it has been confirmed that Luke didn't have a jedi school. The KOR might have been an ancient clan name which Kylo revived.

He may have formed the group to train a new generation of force users to combat the Acolytes of the Beyond and other dark side users, and they even might have resorted to violence to protect innocents from these dark siders. Luke and Leia are force sensitive twins- if she felt things were not alright and was secretly creating a resistance long before the FO rose, then why would her brother be any different? I can imagine Luke keeping Vader's burnt skull as a reminder of what the dark side can do to someone- though he might never have told his students the full story or his  connection to Vader.

Kylo being Luke's best student would logically be made the Master of the KOR.

This would also explain why Luke didn't keep in regular touch with Leia- he was busy fighting and didn't want to worry her or put her in any danger by telling her about his activities.

I think everything was alright till the Vader reveal.....when this happened, I think the KOR turned on Kylo as he represented everything that they fought against, being Vader's grandson.....we know Luke was away at the time so Kylo would have had to face them alone....maybe he finally resorted to using the dark side of the force and killed them all (maybe with the help of Vader's spirit which might be housed in the burnt helmet)...thus echoing the actions of his grandfather in ROTS. He would have then left and gone to Snoke, either because he feels he belongs there with his evil lineage or he has gone there to take revenge on the FO for destroying everything. He obviously has some attachment to his old jedi order as he stills wears his old burnt jedi cape (which curiously is black and not light coloured like traditional padawans).

Meanwhile Luke would have returned, seen the carnage and blamed himself for everything that happened- setting up this militant order, not revealing their true lineage to Ben etc....so he left for Ach-to to either guard the first temple/exile himself as he blamed himself/wait for his next student. I think he exiled himself because he felt his actions, no matter how noble his intentions, caused all the trouble.

I think Kylo could be looking for Luke to either seek his help or to kill him because he blames him for everything that happened...probably blames them as much as he blames his family for lying to him and what he perceives as their abandoning him.

Snoke referred to him as the Master of the KOR....but he never indicated whether they are still around....so they could be dead for all we know.

This theory would explain why the KOR are not around.... warriors dressed in black were spotted in the Ireland shoot but we only assume they are the KOR- what if they're the acolytes of the beyond or some other dark side group? This would also explain the absence of the KOR in TFA- they were probably the ashes in Millicent's kitty litter, which Kylo keeps as a memento mori of sorts (in addition to Grandpa's skull).

My personal theory and has been for a long time now is the Knights of Ren are a group that were formerly the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Aftermath series of books. I believe Snoke is their leader and has different Masters (Kylo Ren being one of them) training different fractions across the galaxy and the Unknown Regions until the time is right to reveal this true grand plan of his. This is both the threat that Thrawn warned the Empire about and in part what Snoke was doing during the events of the PT and OT. (The other part was searching for immorality.) Now, he's masking this true agenda until the time is right and will only be revealed when the First Order teams up with the Resistance. (With a limited number of Jedi too.) This leads to a final stand against this newly emerged threat and the different gangs like Kanjiklub and Guavian Death Gang helping out.

1. It's a good way to bring things full circle and symbolism for Balance of the Force. Rey and Ben, and on the technical side have the sides come together against this greater threat. In essence, the PT was Dark, the OT was Light, and the ST is the Balance.

2. If Snoke were Plagueis this could be a good way to make him the one who influenced Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas into ordering the Clone Army and more so knowing he's the true supreme intellect who has manipulated everything from the beginning adds so much depth to the PT. This could even add substance to Anakin's origins but that's another topic for another time.

3. It could be Finn who brings the sides together as he knows the First Order on a personal level and is the perfect candidate to do this. Thus giving him a greater purpose in the story.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:@vaderito they put a ton of detail and action (and misdirection w/the rocks) in that part to make you wonder how it's signficant. If not going for Salad Bowl as in "homie don't touch my bae," then what? And the breaking the 4th wall body language of walking towards her is out of character w/out the clenched hands, not as aggressive.

@snufkin

We'll see. But I'm more and more convinced that Forceback was just meaningless mess consisted of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@vaderito

Well, that would suck, but I can sympathise. I have these moments sometimes when I feel like TFA was just a meaningless mess of scenes that looked kinda cool.

@Darth Dingbat

Oh Darth Dingbat- this is a great call!!!
I'm hoping an extended version released one day will fix some of the mess!!

I had to share this little comparison that I did of Kylo and an actual medieval knight. With the comment from Adam in the new issue of Rolling Stone of being royalty and the "princess" Leia. i love the symbolism used in that poster of Kylo. Not necessarily a "Knight of Ren" photo but I found it fitting for this topic. He looks like a royal dark knight. I figure there has to be some symbolism of sorts regarding being royal and Lor San Tekka's "To me she's royalty" comment in TFA.

One last theory before going dark

Since JJ Abrams said that Knight Of Ren story is spin off worthy movie. It seem like they are really significant in sequel trilogy

My guess is they are former Luke Jedi student who abandoned their Jedi teaching and the survivor of second Jedi purge that happened on Burning Luke Jedi temple

Supposedly, There are cancelled clone wars spin off before Disney Buyout about 6 youngling and Ahsoka.
You can read about it here
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-george-lucas-younglings-movie-tv-show/
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Untitled_Young_Padawans_spin-off_series



What I find interesting is that there are 7 of them including Ahsoka similar number to how many of Knight Of Ren are including Kylo Ren. Ben might take Ahsoka role as a group leader. Maybe Lucasfilm will reuse the concept but turn it into more mature tone. I don't read Aftermath trilogy novel but there are group called acolyte of beyond that potentially to be Knight Of Ren. I'm not sure about that because quick read from wiki they seem just a dumb cultist


Edit 2 : Add knight of ren image for reference