The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

First, I want to say that I have NO intention of abandoning the Reylo ship, but this question is concerning me...


I just want to have some arsenal. Please help. SOS. LOL

So I would like to know:

1. Is a Force Connection something permanent in other examples in and/or out of canon?
2. And is a Force Connection something you can wilfully shut because neither Kylo or (especially) Rey bridged their minds deliberately, and Rey showed no desire in the first half of TLJ to talk to Kylo Ren?
3. When Rey closed the door on the Falcon, was she permanently closing the Force connection? Why do you think yes or no?
(I said no at first and then I saw an interview with Hidalgo on the Star Wars official blog compared it to scene in Godfather of closing a door between a Michael when he became Don and his wife. Their relationship didn't end, but the intimacy and trust did. But so did Jane Eyre with Rochester after she found out that he lied to her.)

The Force Bond, especially the creation of it, reminds me so much of a scene in Doctor Who in the episode entitled, A Girl in a Fireplace, where a mind bond was made and this reflection was stated:

TRANSCRIPT OF SCENE
The Doctor: [the Doctor is searching through Reinette's memories] Sorry, you might find old memories reawakening, side effect.

Reinette Poisson: Oh, such a lonely childhood!

The Doctor: It'll pass.

Reinette Poisson: Oh, Doctor, so lonely, so very very alone!

The Doctor: What do mean, lonely? You've never been alone in your whole life- wait a minute, when did you start calling me Doctor?

Reinette Poisson: Such a lonely little boy. Lonely then and lonelier now! How can you bear it?

The Doctor: [breaking the mental connection] How did you do that?

Reinette Poisson: A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction. Oh, Doctor, my lonely Doctor... dance with me.
[It should be noted that dance here is a metaphor for a relationship in this season of Doctor Who.]

The force skypes seemed involuntary to me. Like at least once they both seemed annoyed that it had opened up "I don't want to do this right now." "Yeah, me neither." ....so I don't think either one of them can willfully close it or open it, including the end of the movie.

Yes, I agree...but that interview with Hidalgo made it sound like she had the power to close it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p09c0MXDxto&t=967s  see 14:40), so as Rey increases her powers, can a Force user deliberately close a Force Connection?  

Is there an example in another story of someone doing this? Or what the connection established, the door is made and can be shut or closed according to the Will of the Force?

I promise...no doubt of Reylo.  I just want to know other than strong opinion, intuition, and hope ...is there a way to prove (arsenal) that the door is not shut permanently?

I highly doubt it's closed permanently because the film gave the impression that neither Kylo nor Rey could even control it, but ultimately it... doesn't even matter? The Force Skype was VIII's plot device, a means to an end, and it's always possible they'll utilize other plot devices going forward. The point is TLJ leaves the Rey and Kylo relationship very unfinished. Their story requires a resolution. How they achieve that resolution depends on the final chapter, but it's coming no matter what, and it's not going to involve the two of them being bitter enemies until the end after two films of intimate build-up. The Force bond itself is honestly kind of irrelevant.

Good point. Thanks.

I'll add that there's no real precedent for this kind of Force connection in the canon because it was Rian Johnson's idea. 

Don't be surprised if people say Rey "shut the door" or "closed the connection" more going forward because she did. She definitely closed him out for the time being. But a closed door can always be reopened. The Force connection still exists, but again, it's just a plot device. I doubt IX is going to rely on their development through the Force bond again because that was VIII's twist. IX will include different developments all building toward a resolution.

agreed with @FrolickingFizzgig here.

also, I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea if TPTB fix it so that Rey with her increasing powers IS able to close the connection. The cliche of "absence making the heart grow fonder" is a well-trodden truth.

you sound a bit worried... why exactly are you worried? going forward, I feel that the Force-Skypes are not the only way for them to be in touch. In fact, as stated above, they were pretty much a PD in TLJ (a great device, but I'm not sure if JJ will continue them). But I'm sure that IX is not going to keep these two characters separated even if the bond is closed. Reylo isn't going away. They are pretty much the heart and soul of the story. Everyone expects that that will be dealt with in IX.

Now, *how* they go about writing the interaction is the crux of the matter.

The main reason I hope the Force connection isn't fully gone is because its continued existence could make for some delicious tension in IX. For example, were the Resistance, namely Finn and Poe, to find out about it, it might lead to distrust of Rey or contemplatation of having Rey use it against Kylo/The First Order. It seems like a waste to get rid of it and it's a plot device that J.J. could get MUCH more use out of and extend to be much more dramatic.

But I fully expect that Rey will have learned to close it off by the start of IX and that she won't have seen Kylo for a good deal of time. I don't think they're going to have Force Bond conversations over the probable timeskip that we won't be privy to.

I’d say it’s still there. The fact that it happened after Snoke died demonstrated clearly that it wasn’t his construct and that it was still in existence. Might it change and evolve? Sure. But it’s still there.

Yes @Dar-ren19, the important thing is not whether or not the door is open, it's what came about as a result of the connection. That is what requires a resolution. JJ could build toward that resolution any number of ways.

As for the Godfather comparison the difference is Michael shut out Kay. You see his subordinates kiss his hands as he is chosen as the new Godfather. Then one of them closes the door on Kay, shutting her out. Rey, on the other hand, shuts Kylo out. Michael is in a position of power and embraces it; Kylo is also in a position of power, but is on his knees looking completely broken. Rey is Michael, Ben is Kay.

@ZioRen
I'm in the same boat. The Force connection's major appeal going forward is the potential for drama and tension. I also think Rey will have taught herself how to ignore or close the connection by the time we see her again, though I expect she'll be able to open the door again if/when she chooses. 

Or maybe IX won't rely on the Force connection much at all.

Um, see that's what I thought until I say this video of Pablo Hidalgo stating that Rey shut the door on that connection (or maybe I misunderstood?)
see around 14:40...

I think their connection has nothing to do with Snoke. It is stronger than that. Kylo showed an interest in Reyo before Snoke bridged their minds. But in shutting the Falcon door, is there proof or disproof found in the movies or other Star Wars lore that once a Force Connection is made it is permanent and cannot be deliberately closed forever.... this is more of an academic inquiry to get more understanding than a question to disprove Reylo.  I want to in no way disprove Reylo.  I care very much about that couple. <3

"A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction." Renette to the Doctor (when these characters made a mind bond in Doctor Who which led to a relationship But I would like to know if there's proof of a permanent connection in elsewhere in Star Wars lore. I don't know. I am asking for information for people who are better informed than I.

@FrolickingFizzgig Good point about Rey being Michael...

I promise I really do agree with this.  I just want to increase an understanding of the power of Force Connections and how they relate to the furture of Reylo.

@Dar-ren19 I am worried because I am invested.  I love this couple.  And I want more understanding of their connection.

I'm in two minds with this. ANd I'm glad for this thread, btw.

I'd love to see more forcebond sessions LOL. They were a marvelous little window the audience had into these two characters' initiation into each other's minds and hearts. But in IX I feel that the resolution of their story needs to be in person or at least corporeal. The fact that she shipped herself to him... I was watching that scene last night, and the elevator eyes he gives her in the elevator (lol)... and I thought, this is the first time he actually SEES her since the interrogation, right? Right?! Right. He's forced to feel her presence beside him. Afterward, sitting on his bent knee inside that huge coffin-like room and seeing this girl undergoing torture... she's no longer a phantom presence in his mind, but a real person in pain, a person he can no longer not care about.

If I were a SW writer, I'd put them together... whether they are forced (sorry!) to be or whether it's voluntary.

The way I see it, why even bother showing that the connection was still intact by the end just to get rid of it a second later? That seems odd unless the idea was to show you it still existed just so you could watch Rey herself choose to end it. That's possible, I guess, but it seems significant that it was shown to persist beyond Snoke despite Snoke claiming to create it. That seemed more like a hint that their connection goes far beyond Snoke than a way to make Rey slamming the door in Kylo's face harsh and final on a physical, emotional, and even spiritual level. Especially since it's obvious that Reylo is far from dead.

@Dar-ren19 Those Forcebond scenes were intense, and pretty much the most intimate thing I have ever seen. Seriously... And they were so powerful, how do they work? What really is a Force Bond, what are its rules and applications...or is any way the Force wills?

I would look this up, but i have no idea where to start. And yes, I have Googled. LOL

ZioRen wrote:The main reason I hope the Force connection isn't fully gone is because its continued existence could make for some delicious tension in IX. For example, were the Resistance, namely Finn and Poe, to find out about it, it might lead to distrust of Rey or contemplatation of having Rey use it against Kylo/The First Order. It seems like a waste to get rid of it and it's a plot device that JJ could get MUCH more use out of and extend to be much more dramatic.

But I fully expect that Rey will have learned to close it off by the start of IX and that she won't have seen Kylo for a good deal of time. I don't think they're going to have Force Bond conversations over the probable timeskip that we won't be privy to.

@ZioRen

Exactly. The idea of Kylo and Rey being connected could lead to a unique and original storyline in Episode IX, especially since some people seem to think that Rey and Kylo’s connection is gone and all we’re going to get for IX’s climax is Rey and Kylo confronting and fighting each other.  

I agree that Rey and Kylo could be out of communication for some time when IX starts or Rey learns how to control the connection, however, I think something will happen that will lead them to unintentionally reconnect. It’s pretty clear the connection survived  Snoke’s death. JJ may even utilize another aspect of the Force to connect them or to the evolve the connection.

The Force connection is just too interesting and something we’ve never seen fully realized in SW before. Also, there’s unfinished business and emotions between Rey and Kylo that could play out better through a continuation of a connection through the Force. Rian may have created the Force connection, but he was inspired by JJ connecting them in the first place in TFA so I could see JJ eager to use it in some way.

Kessel wrote:

ZioRen wrote:The main reason I hope the Force connection isn't fully gone is because its continued existence could make for some delicious tension in IX. For example, were the Resistance, namely Finn and Poe, to find out about it, it might lead to distrust of Rey or contemplatation of having Rey use it against Kylo/The First Order. It seems like a waste to get rid of it and it's a plot device that JJ could get MUCH more use out of and extend to be much more dramatic.

But I fully expect that Rey will have learned to close it off by the start of IX and that she won't have seen Kylo for a good deal of time. I don't think they're going to have Force Bond conversations over the probable timeskip that we won't be privy to.

@ZioRen

Exactly. The idea of Kylo and Rey being connected could lead to a unique and original storyline in Episode IX, especially since some people seem to think that Rey and Kylo’s connection is gone and all we’re going to get for IX’s climax is Rey and Kylo confronting and fighting each other.  

I agree that Rey and Kylo could be out of communication for some time when IX starts or Rey learns how to control the connection, however, I think something will happen that will lead them to unintentionally reconnect. It’s pretty clear the connection survived  Snoke’s death. JJ may even utilize another aspect of the Force to connect them or to the evolve the connection.

The Force connection is just too interesting and something we’ve never seen fully realized in SW before. Also, there’s unfinished business and emotions between Rey and Kylo that could play out better through a continuation of a connection through the Force. Rian may have created the Force connection, but he was inspired by JJ connecting them in the first place in TFA so I could see JJ eager to use it in some way.

@Kessel

Agreed, and this is all another big reason I hope the connection isn't gone. Frankly, I think Kylo and Rey need to have many more interactions, especially after the way TLJ left them off, if a mutual and real romance between them is going to be satisfying or believable. It can't just be them having some climactic moment toward the end of the movie. Considering Kylo is now the First Order top dog and Rey may be the same among the Resistance (whether she likes it or not), I highly doubt they're going to be having many clandestine physical meetings. A continuation of the Force connection seems like the best and easiest option to have them interact earlier in the movie. Though I do personally think they have to be physically together much more than they were in TLJ if romance is endgame.

I think I've seen people theorize on here that IX could potentially open with Leia's death or the mourning of her. That could be a great early insight into where Rey and Kylo are at mentally, a kick in the pants for Kylo to restart the conflict and drama, and a reason for the connection to reopen for the first time in a long time.

I can't picture J.J. dropping the connection. It's just way too convenient and can go in so many different directions.

I keep going to the idea that Kylo must prove to Rey that he is willing to change... And to me, Rey's vision when she touches the legacy lightsaber might have proof that Kylo saves her... I think the Knights of Ren scene we see is a of the future where Kylo kills one of his own men to protect Rey....perhaps?

But instead of just talking in a connection, action must in some way redeem Kylo to Rey and the audience. Save Ben Solo!

For even Rian Johnson said, he did a Force Connection because he couldn't put these two people in a room without wanting to kill each other... so he had to get them talking....

I thought LF just recently came out and said the initial bond was Kasdan's idea? The Forcetime/Skype sessions were definitely Rian's idea of how to get them together to talk w/out somebody needing to be tied up or the two of them fighting.

Otherwise, Lord I hope not. I can see them being like exes who haven't deleted the other's cell # and e-mail, but keep acting like it's not there and how they're over it. Except that they're not. And JJ would be foolish to not waste the dramatic potential of that situation when both sides find out that those two were having secret late night Force tete-a-tetes and that when Rey was trying to get help for the Resistance, she had actually flown off to see her secret boyfriend and the outcome is that he's now the head of the group trying to wipe them out. And just imagine how Hux would react. So much potential for drama!

Hi and welcome to our little Reylo Family!

I wouldn't worry- Pablo simply compared Rey shutting the door on Kylo itself to The Godfather scene in that moment...not what it means in long term for their relationship.

I know I mentioned this a few times already...but the script of IX isn't even written / finished yet- Pablo is from the Story team but he will not write IX and I wouldn't take everything he says to seriously.

I'm sure the FB is still intact and I love it but I do hope they just use it in the beginning and they will spend time together in real life.

The Force connection is just too interesting and something we’ve never seen fully realized in SW before. Also, there’s unfinished business and emotions between Rey and Kylo that could play out better through a continuation of a connection through the Force. Rian may have created the Force connection, but he was inspired by JJ connecting them in the first place in TFA so I could see JJ eager to use it in some way.

@Kessel  I think the key is what more can be achieved by a continuation of the connection. It's entirely possible that Rey (perhaps she asked Leia seeing that Leia had a similar one to her brother -- at first when Luke showed up on Crait and went straight to Leia, I thought RJ was creating a similar scene to Ben and Rey, but then I realized everyone could see Luke lol) learns to control it because it's definitely a disrupting influence. But, as we all know, she's torn. She's torn between her head and her heart, and the latter pretty much is beating for that man she closed that door on. I wouldn't be surprised, like you said, if JJ not only retains the connection, but ups the ante in some way.

Cinematically speaking, the sound and imagery of the force-bond is just incredibly compelling. I believe that the GA and also fans were pretty much dumbfounded by the snap! crackle! and pop! of how they created and executed it. The romantic/sexual tension between the two characters were just on a completely different level, thanks to this particular plot device, and I don't see JJ doing away with it completely, Father of Reylo that he is.

@snufkin something you said up there reminds me. So we're told by Hux that Rey took Snoke's ship, right? How exactly did she end up hiding that fact from the resistance? Or is Chewie keeping that secret? Where is that ship?

Yes, it is closed for sure until time jump in EPIX and do not let antis to use it as a "proof" of something because the main reason it was closed has nothing to do with the romantic\or not future for Rey and Kylo.

Rian couldn't just drop it (to not show the last connection) and couldn't leave it open.
Because he won't make a next movie and an element like this is a big trouble for the next script.
Because he knows there will be a time jump.
Because it'll be hard for the next director to recreate these "connection" scenes. It's technically trouble - for example, they did not reuse a "Force" sound from connection scene in TFA. And that was an amazing sound and a great way to continue this Bond. And after 5 scenes in TLJ the next director will have a lot of problems to show it the same way.

the ways of force are inscrutable.
Although Kylo is more experienced than Rey in strength, there are things he can not know or control, but I'm sure their connection is not closed.
From Snoke's phrase there are a curious things about it

"It was you who was bridged your minds"

but the force connection was there before. So Snoke just expanded it more.

"I stoked my apprentice's conflicted soul."

In episode VII Kylo hears the call of light, and says that Snoke senses it. killing Han, he broke his spirit. So the conflict has always been inside Kylo Ren, Snoke has only made things worse.

"I know he was not strong enough to hide it from you."

Kylo always tells Rey the truth, he can not lie to her. He does not hide anything from her. However, he hides his true intentions from Snoke.

"and I will kill you with the cruelest stroke."

Kylo will kill you with the cruelest stroke

 

"You think you can turn him? Pathetic child"

 never say never

 I can not be betrayed; I can not be beaten. I see his every intent. Yes. I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true. And now, foolish child, he ignites it, and kills his true enemy!

It Was At This Moment He Knew...

He f**** Up

Dar-ren19 wrote:
The Force connection is just too interesting and something we’ve never seen fully realized in SW before. Also, there’s unfinished business and emotions between Rey and Kylo that could play out better through a continuation of a connection through the Force. Rian may have created the Force connection, but he was inspired by JJ connecting them in the first place in TFA so I could see JJ eager to use it in some way.

@Kessel  I think the key is what more can be achieved by a continuation of the connection. It's entirely possible that Rey (perhaps she asked Leia seeing that Leia had a similar one to her brother -- at first when Luke showed up on Crait and went straight to Leia, I thought RJ was creating a similar scene to Ben and Rey, but then I realized everyone could see Luke lol) learns to control it because it's definitely a disrupting influence. But, as we all know, she's torn. She's torn between her head and her heart, and the latter pretty much is beating for that man she closed that door on. I wouldn't be surprised, like you said, if JJ not only retains the connection, but ups the ante in some way.

Cinematically speaking, the sound and imagery of the force-bond is just incredibly compelling. I believe that the GA and also fans were pretty much dumbfounded by the snap! crackle! and pop! of how they created and executed it. The romantic/sexual tension between the two characters were just on a completely different level, thanks to this particular plot device, and I don't see JJ doing away with it completely, Father of Reylo that he is.

@Dar-ren19

One possibility that occurs to me for "upping the ante" is a result of a comment early on in their first force-bonding session: "I can't see your surroundings."

What if, to symbolize that the force-bond between them is only getting stronger, they do in fact start to see each other's surroundings? That might be a development that J.J. needs to use for the plot itself. Because at this stage, I see the benefits of retaining the force-bond as more plot driven than emotional (it's a damn convenient device). I talked about this in another thread, but if done correctly, them having little to no contact with each other over the course of the film is fine with me as long as they have ways of showing that they are dwelling on each other. I mean, Kylo's feelings are more clear and Adam's the better actor with facial expressions and Kylo Ren's the king of brood, so it won't take much on his end, but I also think that Hux or one of his knights finding out what actually happened in that throne room is key because that provides opportunity for someone in the film to voice the obvious: "You're in love with her." On Rey's end, I'd like to see a Rey/Rose connection. I said it in the Resistance thread, but a female friendship is SORELY needed in these films, and would also provide Rey with an appropriate sounding board. And the way Rose has been drawn, I think she would totally "get" it (I appreciate Rose way more as a character after more than one viewing - she's going to come in handy in that last film).

That is all to say that I love the force-bond, I think they will retain it minimally and develop it as they need to next film, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary any more to the emotional aspect of Rey and Kylo's connection. That's already been established, and the separation will do the rest of the job during the next film.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I'll add that there's no real precedent for this kind of Force connection in the canon because it was Rian Johnson's idea. 

Don't be surprised if people say Rey "shut the door" or "closed the connection" more going forward because she did. She definitely closed him out for the time being. But a closed door can always be reopened. The Force connection still exists, but again, it's just a plot device. I doubt IX is going to rely on their development through the Force bond again because that was VIII's twist. IX will include different developments all building toward a resolution.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree but I can't help but think how will JJ make them interact and reunite in IX? I mean, he just can't keep them separated for the whole movie until the third act when they have their final battle scene? The scenes with Adam & Daisy are the most interesting, so I don't think JJ will keep them separated for too long. There needs to be continuing development with those two for them to end happily. So I am thinking either the force bonds continue once Kylo learns about his mom's fate, or maybe Kylo leaves the First Order half way through the movie and meets Rey alone somewhere.. What do you guys think ?

tukicarreno wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I'll add that there's no real precedent for this kind of Force connection in the canon because it was Rian Johnson's idea. 

Don't be surprised if people say Rey "shut the door" or "closed the connection" more going forward because she did. She definitely closed him out for the time being. But a closed door can always be reopened. The Force connection still exists, but again, it's just a plot device. I doubt IX is going to rely on their development through the Force bond again because that was VIII's twist. IX will include different developments all building toward a resolution.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree but I can't help but think how will JJ make them interact and reunite in IX? I mean, he just can't keep them separated for the whole movie until the third act when they have their final battle scene? The scenes with Adam & Daisy are the most interesting, so I don't think JJ will keep them separated for too long. There needs to be continuing development with those two for them to end happily. So I am thinking either the force bonds continue once Kylo learns about his mom's fate, or maybe Kylo leaves the First Order half way through the movie and meets Rey alone somewhere.. What do you guys think ?

@tukicarreno
Well, if JJ is going into this with the goal of developing them more (and of course he is) then the story and details will reflect that. I just don't think the Force connection is the only way to achieve that end. The story is about them whether he makes a lot of use of the Force connection or has them reunite sooner than expected. If JJ's goal is unity the whole story will build toward that.

Goal = Resolution. The story will build toward that through development.