General Discussion: The Prequel Trilogy

Piper Maru wrote:I enjoy the PT, yes.

The Phantom Menace is... complicated, but I like it because it was the first SW movie I watched on the theaters.

Attack of the Clones has a terrible script, but I love Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Revenge of the Sith is great and one of my favorite SW movies. I love Anakin and his descent, I love his fight with Obi-Wan, and the scene where he becomes Darth Vader is one of the best scenes of the franchise.

Ditto.
I also think that it was the first film that actually showed the Jedi in a not - so - saintly light; at least for me. The scene where Obi Wan leaves Anakin to die in agony still creeps me out. I actually can't see Luke doing that.
@Piper Maru

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:I enjoy the PT, yes.

The Phantom Menace is... complicated, but I like it because it was the first SW movie I watched on the theaters.

Attack of the Clones has a terrible script, but I love Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Revenge of the Sith is great and one of my favorite SW movies. I love Anakin and his descent, I love his fight with Obi-Wan, and the scene where he becomes Darth Vader is one of the best scenes of the franchise.

Ditto.
I also think that it was the first film that actually showed the Jedi in a not - so - saintly light; at least for me. The scene where Obi Wan leaves Anakin to die in agony still creeps me out. I actually can't see Luke doing that.
@Piper Maru

@motherofpearl1

I deffinatly think RTS is the best movie of the prequals.I actually really like some of GL's ideas and what he was trying to do unfortunately he just didn't have a group of people to help him excute the ideas in a good way like in the OT because there was so much more potential than what we ended up getting.For example I've read some wonderful Padme metas over the importance of her character and how she could have had much better storyline than she ended up getting.

CienaRee wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:I enjoy the PT, yes.

The Phantom Menace is... complicated, but I like it because it was the first SW movie I watched on the theaters.

Attack of the Clones has a terrible script, but I love Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Revenge of the Sith is great and one of my favorite SW movies. I love Anakin and his descent, I love his fight with Obi-Wan, and the scene where he becomes Darth Vader is one of the best scenes of the franchise.

Ditto.
I also think that it was the first film that actually showed the Jedi in a not - so - saintly light; at least for me. The scene where Obi Wan leaves Anakin to die in agony still creeps me out. I actually can't see Luke doing that.
@Piper Maru

@motherofpearl1

I deffinatly think RTS is the best movie of the prequals.I actually really like some of GL's ideas and what he was trying to do unfortunately he just didn't have a group of people to help him excute the ideas in a good way like in the OT because there was so much more potential than what we ended up getting.For example I've read some wonderful Padme metas over the importance of her character and how she could have had much better storyline than she ended up getting.

@CienaRee

Yeah, the general idea and outline for the PT were good, but the execution and many of the small creative decisions/details were not well done. I think it's been said that Lucas was the ultimate decision maker when it came to every aspect of the production and he was  director too, so... I think that was a lot of the problem. it would probably have been better had there been more decision making and input from others when it came to the process and execution.

I don't hate the PT, there were good things, but many things were not ideal, imo. I really wish Padme's role had been given more substance since she was the twins' mother and a large part of Anakin's fall. I still can't get over the desccion to have her "lose the will to live" which I found to be one of the worst mistakes in the PT.  I also wish the romance between her and Anakin had been executed a little differently and that Anakin's fall had more emotional build up. I know there was some build up, but it ultimately felt rushed and a little hollow to me. I also have some issues with Anakin's characterization so that colors a lot of my negative impressions of his fall, so I can kind of understand the complaints some people have made about Kylo being Anakin "well done." Don't get my wrong, I don't think Hayden Christiansen did a terrible job and it didn't stop me from being emotionally moved and saddened when Anakin became Vader, but the characterization had some issues.

Kessel89 wrote:

CienaRee wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:I enjoy the PT, yes.

The Phantom Menace is... complicated, but I like it because it was the first SW movie I watched on the theaters.

Attack of the Clones has a terrible script, but I love Padmé and Obi-Wan.

Revenge of the Sith is great and one of my favorite SW movies. I love Anakin and his descent, I love his fight with Obi-Wan, and the scene where he becomes Darth Vader is one of the best scenes of the franchise.

Ditto.
I also think that it was the first film that actually showed the Jedi in a not - so - saintly light; at least for me. The scene where Obi Wan leaves Anakin to die in agony still creeps me out. I actually can't see Luke doing that.
@Piper Maru

@motherofpearl1

I deffinatly think RTS is the best movie of the prequals.I actually really like some of GL's ideas and what he was trying to do unfortunately he just didn't have a group of people to help him excute the ideas in a good way like in the OT because there was so much more potential than what we ended up getting.For example I've read some wonderful Padme metas over the importance of her character and how she could have had much better storyline than she ended up getting.

@CienaRee

Yeah, the general idea and outline for the PT were good, but the execution and many of the small creative decisions/details were not well done. I think it's been said that Lucas was the ultimate decision maker when it came to every aspect of the production and he was  director too, so... I think that was a lot of the problem. it would probably have been better had there been more decision making and input from others when it came to the process and execution.

I don't hate the PT, there were good things, but many things were not ideal, imo. I really wish Padme's role had been given more substance since she was the twins' mother and a large part of Anakin's fall. I still can't get over the desccion to have her "lose the will to live" which I found to be one of the worst mistakes in the PT.  I also wish the romance between her and Anakin had been executed a little differently and that Anakin's fall had more emotional build up. I know there was some build up, but it ultimately felt rushed and a little hollow to me. I also have some issues with Anakin's characterization so that colors a lot of my negative impressions of his fall, so I can kind of understand the complaints some people have made about Kylo being Anakin "well done." Don't get my wrong, I don't think Hayden Christiansen did a terrible job and it didn't stop me from being emotionally moved and saddened when Anakin became Vader, but the characterization had some issues.

@Kessel89

Yeah,I mean the more I think about it the whole ''turning to the DS to save Padme'' had potential but the execution just didn't make much sense.I mean we see him be torn and anguished over whether he should betray the Jedi Council or let his wife die and after Mace dies he's still horrified by what he's done but suddenly he's ready to kill children and his best friend and father figure because he wanted more power eventhough GL had scarpped that idea earlier.What was even the point to make Padme the reason for Anakin's fall.
And don't get me started with the whole ''lost the will''crap I've seen some fans try to excuse it but that's also a plotline that makes absolutely no sense because even in her dying moments Padme still believes there's good in Anakin.So you're telli g me she'll just give up whne she believes her husband can be saved +having two infant children that need her?Seriously f**** this crap,I hate it so much it's such an insult to Padme's character.

What I do find interesting is the depth of nerd rage it seems to have triggered. Like people feel personally betrayed when it's obviously one man's passion project. I only watched the first movie b/c a neighbor of mine from school got a job at Silicon Graphics to work on the CGI.  It seems more like a missed opportunity that got buried under the CGI, costumes, and badly written space politics. Even when I went on a date to see the re-release of the first movie, that really wasn't enough interest me enough to feel invested in the PT.  

The story itself, I had expected it to be more complex between the characters and something like Camelot. What you got instead was a pair of dumb, lovesick  teenagers. Padme comes off like an over earnest student body president or Diane Court in Say Anything  with a dumb jock boyfriend who has a serious anger management problem. They're just a pair of dumb kids instead of something epic.  I finally watched the whole thing after seeing TFA and can see that part of making things right might be having writers and actors who could pull off the type of forbidden love/DS and LS story the PT failed at. The other thing that hit me over the head was how much of this might have been inspired by Dune. Frank Herbert's original novel tells this story so much better than all 3 PT movies combined.

Also one thing in favor of R1 was in bringing back Jimmy Smits, who is a bad a** and in a more just world, would be (should be) an icon on the level of Harrison Ford and Ewan McGregor. Too bad they didn't make his character more central to space politics because he's one of those actors who walks off with every scene he's in. After reading Bloodline, I would love to see some kind of reference to him in the ST as the two competing patriarchs in the family lineage. His taking in Leia and raising/mentoring her is LS parallel to Snoke and Ben.

No matter how much fans bash the Prequels I would still choose anyone of them over ROTJ. Videos like this only steel my resolve.

I don't hate them - but I can't get over the fact they missed a great opportunity.

The story of Anakins fall to the dark side could have been epic...sadly it wasn't.

The big problem (in my opinion) was that they tried to tell a serious, mature and dark tale, but at the same time make it "fun" for children.
I felt George Lucas focused more on showing great visual scenes but forgot what was really important- the characters and dialog.
I understand he was excited to finally have the technology to create all those spectacular worlds- I really do. But CGI can't make up for missing
a good story and chemistry between actors.

I read a lot of fans complaining about Kylo being whiny - didn't they watch the prequels??? Anakin was SO much worse! I don't know if it was bad directing or HC just couldn't pull it of (I think both). I still don't think of Vader and him as same person because... I just can't.
The "romance" was so bad it was unintentionally funny. I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of Natalie Portman. She's not a bad actress, but somehow
I can't see why all are so impressed with her. Anyway, there was no chemistry between her and HC... and I soooo wanted to like them. I remember I waited like a little kid for the release of AoTC and it was just a letdown

RoTS was only slightly better.

I liked Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, the Lightsaber fights and the great CGI.
The OT had flaws as well- but unlike the Prequels I rewatched the OT many many times over the years.

@Night Huntress GK also made the romance too chaste. You can't do that in a forbidden love story let alone in a Dark Lord-in-making one. It was tonally off. Both required something steamier, Reylo in TFA level with kissing would have been perfect. But...

vaderito wrote:@Night Huntress GK also made the romance too chaste. You can't do that in a forbidden love story let alone in a Dark Lord-in-making one. It was tonally off. Both required something steamier, Reylo in TFA level with kissing would have been perfect. But...

@vaderito

yeah well, it's Star Wars so I didn't expect anything more then kissing and cuddling. But if we remember Han and Leia just kissed (and fought ) in ESB and their love Story was epic! Also there was more erotic and chemistry between Rey and Kylo Ren in that interrogation and lightsaber fight scene than between Padme and Anakin in the whole prequels- it wasn't just the missing chemistry with Padme and Anakin -they were somehow "creepy" together.

They messed that up big time.

just watching "revenge of the sith" right now (it's on free TV on a german channel) OMG - it's even worse than I remember

Personally, I love The Phantom Menace. I think it's truly an underrated film. I think it tells a very important message and has great characters. Sure there's a couple cringeworthy moments like Jar Jar's potty humor but, overall I find he serves an important role in the story. It's a story of people helping people and how we might be different than someone else but, we shouldn't look at them any less. As well as many other themes sprinkled in. There's a lot to love about it for me and I can always share my review I wrote for it if anyone is interested and wants a different perspective.

Attack of the Clones, I have a harder time with because of the romance (and I love romance plots) but, there's a couple scenes that aren't too bad for me with it. I find the scene in the field cute, honestly. I love Padme and Anakin being playful. There's some good things overall like Obi-Wan, Jango Fett, and Anakin's search for his mother. Hopefully though the mystery of Sifo-Dyas will be answered at some point as I think this would go a long way towards making this one a bit more watchable.

Revenge of the Sith, it's a tragedy. It's just unfortunate Padme didn't have anything more to do than sit around and not do anything while pregnant. The deleted scenes with her and the Rebel Alliance would have added so much. She deserved this and better. Overall though, it's an enjoyable movie especially for the psychological implications and the tale of Darth Plagueis is compelling too. Especially more so I think if Snoke is Plagueis..

The Prequels are complicated because I think everyone was so excited and hyped. When they came out I was a teenager who grew up on the originals and was so excited. Now that I'm older I'll be really honest - they were a good story, with sloppy writing, I go back and forth on the casting. Natalie Portman is a fantastic actress, but the material she was given was...meh. Hayden, I don't think he's great, but he's not horrible. Anakin was written as an angry little boy so Hayden tried. They were really political, which I didn't understand until I was older. The pod racing was so boring I can't. They had huge potential, and I feel like a lot of people want to like them, but there's just a lot of things I can't overlook. Padme was underutilized. Her deleted scenes would have added so much. Anakin and Padme didn't have enough relationship building. ROTS was the best of them, but when I see people say that the prequels are better than what's being put out right now, I can't agree with that at all.

Very detailed analysis of Count Dooku's form II saber style against Obi Wan's form III.

I wasn't sure where to put this, but I was doing more research on Maz and I saw on her wookiepedia page that in TPM young Anakin has a statue of "the pirate queen"

Hello! I've searched around and can't find a thread to discuss the prequel trilogy in - aside from threads about specific topics in the prequel trilogy or viewing parties..
So I've gone ahead and created a general thread for any PT discussion..
[Mods if I'm mistaken - apologies for creating work and please let me know where you've moved this to. thanks!]

In Darth Vader Comic #10- we had Doctor Aphra track down Padme's mortitian on Naboo.. This comic is canon!



'Amidala's hologram'???? This idea that Padme was a hologram is new to me. Anyone come across this before?
I think it is saying this here is a hologram:

And it was done so she would appear pregnant still...

I find this very curious!
I'm wondering if they will be using something like this for managing Leia's funeral if she has one in IX....

Dar-ren19 wrote:Maybe she's like Anakin? Were we ever told WHY Anakin was chosen?

@Dar-ren19

I always just thought it was due to Qui-Gon's astonishment at Ani's high midiclorian count and that he was conceived mysteriously.
BUT to me, as a teenager watching the PT, I always had this sense that maybe Qui-Gon was wrong about "the chosen one" being Anakin. That it might be someone else. The Jedi Counsel seemed to have that interpretation too when they were reluctant to allow Ani to train. And part of me always wondered if the chosen one was just a mythical idea.

Anakin is the Chosen One. However, the Jedi Prophecy was misread presumingly. As Yoda in ROTS says that it could've been misread to Obi-Wan and Mace Windu and we have the visual dictionary for The Last Jedi allude to that it didn't allude to the end of the Dark Side. I think this is where Rey and Ben come into the picture. Their unity of the Light and Dark will being the other half of Balance of the Force. Anakin's Force Ghost may or may not be a factor. Much like the Mortis arc. The Mortis Arc in The Clone Wars holds many answers to these things.

BB-Rey wrote:Anakin is the Chosen One. However, the Jedi Prophecy was misread presumingly. As Yoda in ROTS says that it could've been misread to Obi-Wan and Mace Windu and we have the visual dictionary for The Last Jedi allude to that it didn't allude to the end of the Dark Side. I think this is where Rey and Ben come into the picture. Their unity of the Light and Dark will being the other half of Balance of the Force. Anakin's Force Ghost may or may not be a factor. Much like the Mortis arc. The Mortis Arc in The Clone Wars holds many answers to these things.

@BB-Rey

But what MAKES him the chosen one? Especially if the prophecy was misread/misinterpreted?

@SheLitAFire

He destroyed the Sith and the speculation new wrinkle I would say is serving as a fatherly figure of being in the Middle like the Father on Mortis in that he holds the balance between Rey the Light and Kylo the Dark. Luke and Leia were never needed for this as Anakin presumingly being the Chosen One and on the Dark Side cut off his connection with them and the need for this side of Balance of the Force as the Sith were destroyed when he fulfilled one aspect of the prophecy. The other half is the unity.

Some other random points.

1. The Father on Mortis says the Sith are all but many who try to disrupt the Balance. This could be where Snoke and possibly the Knights of Ren come from.

2. Luke never mentions Anakin by name to Rey. Only him as Darth Vader. I find this very odd unless of course they've not been in contact or there's some other circumstance at play here. Wouldn't Luke still have love for him?

I’m sorry to keep on this but was it prophecied he was The Chosen One before he was born or did Qui Gonn see him (as s kid) and then found out about the midichlorian count (that scene) and figure out that he was the one?

Dar-ren19 wrote:I’m sorry to keep on this but was it prophecied he was The Chosen One before he was born or did Qui Gonn see him (as s kid) and then found out about the midichlorian count (that scene) and figure out that he was the one?

@Dar-ren19

There was a Jedi prophesy, which with the help of Luke, was fulfilled and then Anakin died, but in The Clone Wars cartoon, Mortis Arc, you see The Father, Son(Dark side), and Daughter(Light side) in the Mortis realm, with the Father testing Anakin to see if he was the Chosen one, and that being the case, Anakin could then take over for the Father when the Father died. It is definitely worth a watch, the Mortis Arc, think in Season 3 of TCW.

Starliteprism wrote:

Dar-ren19 wrote:I’m sorry to keep on this but was it prophecied he was The Chosen One before he was born or did Qui Gonn see him (as s kid) and then found out about the midichlorian count (that scene) and figure out that he was the one?

@Dar-ren19

There was a Jedi prophesy, which with the help of Luke, was fulfilled and then Anakin died, but in The Clone Wars cartoon, Mortis Arc, you see The Father, Son(Dark side), and Daughter(Light side) in the Mortis realm, with the Father testing Anakin to see if he was the Chosen one, and that being the case, Anakin could then take over for the Father when the Father died. It is definitely worth a watch, the Mortis Arc, think in Season 3 of TCW.

@Starliteprism

It kind of just baffles me that they expect the idea of "the chosen one" to only be understood by people who watch more than just the movies. Like shouldn't the GA be able to understand WHY/WHAT MAKES Anakin the chosen one, without having to watch a tv show?

How does the Father test Anakin to see if he's the chosen one/how does Anakin prove it? (you can put the answer in the spoilers, because truth be told, I'm probably not going to watch the show)

SheLitAFire wrote:

Starliteprism wrote:

Dar-ren19 wrote:I’m sorry to keep on this but was it prophecied he was The Chosen One before he was born or did Qui Gonn see him (as s kid) and then found out about the midichlorian count (that scene) and figure out that he was the one?

@Dar-ren19

There was a Jedi prophesy, which with the help of Luke, was fulfilled and then Anakin died, but in The Clone Wars cartoon, Mortis Arc, you see The Father, Son(Dark side), and Daughter(Light side) in the Mortis realm, with the Father testing Anakin to see if he was the Chosen one, and that being the case, Anakin could then take over for the Father when the Father died. It is definitely worth a watch, the Mortis Arc, think in Season 3 of TCW.

@Starliteprism

It kind of just baffles me that they expect the idea of "the chosen one" to only be understood by people who watch more than just the movies. Like shouldn't the GA be able to understand WHY/WHAT MAKES Anakin the chosen one, without having to watch a tv show?

How does the Father test Anakin to see if he's the chosen one/how does Anakin prove it? (you can put the answer in the spoilers, because truth be told, I'm probably not going to watch the show)

@SheLitAFire

Spoiler:

@SheLitAFire

I agree but, I also think this is very much intentional. Especially as the PT is political in nature and shows the Jedi have more or less lost their way around the time of TPM. Eventually and namely in Episode IX is when things will become more clear cut as to what Balance of the Force/Chosen One truly means. As really the Dark Side and Sith win in the first trilogy, the Jedi and Light Side win in the second, and final trilogy I would like to think it could be somewhere in the Middle with Rey and Kylo with also possibly Anakin's Force Ghost appearing to show them the way. It's a natural order of things.

As George once said.

" If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realisation, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems. The sequel is about Jedi Knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."

I think the Prophecy could very much play into a philosophical problem.