Finding the map to Luke was the red thread of Episode VII: what could be the red thread of Episode VIII?

[reylo1992]

Hi Reylo community! First, I wish you all Merry Christmas a little bit late and hope you have enjoyed this time with your family!

In this topic,  I would like to have some discussion focusing specifically on what could be the red thread(s) of Episode VIII. As the whole franchise was broadcasted on French T.V. last week, I rewatched all Episodes and identified the following red threads for each of them:
- Episode 1: Mystery behind Naboo's invasion by the Trade Federation
==> leading later to the emergence of a phantom menace embodied by the Sith
- Episode 2: Mystery behind Padme's assassination attempt
==> leading later to the mystery behind the creation of the Clone Army & Anakin & Padme's marriage
- Episode 3: Anakin's fall to the dark side
==> leading later to the Revenge of the Sith with the fall of the Jedi Order and the Old Republic
- Episode 4: Race between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance to enter in possession of the Death Star' plans
==> leading later to a new hope for the Rebel Alliance with the destruction of the Death Star
- Episode 5: Vader's obsession to find Luke
==> leading to the attack on Hoth + Han & Leia's capture in order to set  trap to Luke
- Episode 6: Final battle between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance
==> leading to the final victory of the Rebel Alliance and the Emperor's destruction by Vader/Luke
- Episode 7: Race between the First Order and the Resistance to find a map leading to Luke Skywalker
==> leading later to the victory of the Resistance with destruction of the SKB + finding Luke on Ahch-To

I find interesting to start a discussion specifically on the red thread of the Episode VIII because it could go diffrently than the others. Contrary to all other Star Wars movies, the main protagonists of the Light Side will be separated in two distinctive groups from the very beginning (Luke & Rey stranded on Ahch-To; Leia, Finn & Poe on the Resistance base) obviously to follow different paths/goals/missions during the whole movie and be probably reunited only at the end.

Finding the map to Luke was the red thread of Episode VII because it was the common goal of all the protagonists. So now what for Episode VIII?
- From the First Order's side: what could be their ripost to challenge the Resistance after the destruction of SKB?
- From the Resistance's side: what could be their next mission to battle against the First Order?  
- From Ahch-To's side: to what extent is the island itself important for the red thread of Episode VIII? Why was it so important for the Resistance to find the map leading to Luke?  Why was it so important for the First Order to prevent the Resistance to complete this map?

In short, what guiding idea could tie all the stories (Luke, Rey & Kylo on Ahch-To; Finn & the Resistance in Dubrovnik; Snoke & the FO somewhere else, etc...) in a single one at the end of the movie?

[snufkin]

Interesting question. I do think that the entire premise of TFA as a hunt for the map to Luke and BB-8 was a magic trick to hide that the story was actually about Rey's discovery and eventual relationship (as antagonist/foil/???) with KR. For VIII and beyond, as she emerges to become a powerful Force User and the eventual reveal of her origins, that will in turn play out the story of what happened to him and his eventual role in the trilogy. Either as villain or potential anti-hero (and one suspects her LI).

[reylo1992]

Interesting question. I do think that the entire premise of TFA as a hunt for the map to Luke and BB-8 was a magic trick to hide that the story was actually about Rey's discovery and eventual relationship (as antagonist/foil/???) with KR. For VIII and beyond, as she emerges to become a powerful Force User and the eventual reveal of her origins, that will in turn play out the story of what happened to him and his eventual role in the trilogy. Either as villain or potential anti-hero (and one suspects her LI).

@snufkin

I see also the map to Luke like a trick to hide the fact that the most important isn't about Luke but about Rey & Kylo. Still, I really ask myself what for Leia & the Resistance desperately needed to find Luke. Leia is a person who generally give priority to her duty: she wouldn't risk so many lives and lose so many time to complete a map only to find her brother for some personal reason because he's vanished. I might be wrong but the fact that Chewie and R2 stay next to the ship by the end of the movie while Rey goes to find Luke undertones that Leia's idea was to have Luke as soon as possible back by her side. What's more, I don't think that Leia had in mind to send Rey there in order to let her train with Luke on the island for a certain time, which they could actually do in the Resistance base while helping Leia & the others . I also ask myself what could be the next mission for the Resistance, i.e. what will lead them to Dubrovnik? What's so important in this place : an information ? a person ? an object

[snufkin]

@reylo1992 - to be honest the whole Resistance side of the equation was so completely edited out of TFA (to make Leia's entrance more emotional because it's when she's reunited with Han) that I really had no interest in it. Still don't, I suspect that will be more the child friendly part of the trilogy by depicting Finn becoming a hero and leader.  Otherwise, you'd wonder why Leia wasn't trying to track down Luke for more pressing questions like "I trusted you, what the Hell were you doing to my only child?!"

Also left out, Leia's reason for sending Rey there. Maybe she needed Poe for more pressing and immediate military needs now that the FO knows where their base is? Or maybe she figured Luke might have a clue about who Rey's parents were (ha, not him!) if he'd been traveling around the galaxy researching the Force and connecting with the remaining Force users. Who knows, they edited all of that out of the story, which is why people assume that Leia was sending her brother's long lost child on a daughter-daddy reunion : P.

I do think that there are going to be a lot of the audience going in expecting that as with TFA, it will be a copy cat for ESB. And that the same as how ESB blew away peoples' expectations for a repeat of the first movie (including subverting the relationships by making Vader Luke's father and having Han and Leia end up lovers after bickering in the first movie), the same will happen here. They will get some of their "Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know" villain boxes checked off the list, along with Luke Skywalker, Hero of the Rebellion and Last Jedi training a newb. But I also expect that will quickly get tossed out the window once he shows up and the two of them finally have extended time together.

[ISeeAnIsland]

This could very well just be my own headcanon, I was under the impression that Leia wanted Luke back because of his Force knowledge--I figured that she felt that could help the Resistance "win". Now, this could also just be me mentally filling in the blanks because Snoke so clearly fears a "return" of Luke Skywalker--hence, Snoke's willingness to just destroy the map, if possible.

As to why Leia sent Rey, I figured that had to do with Rey being Force sensitive and ending up in possession of the legacy saber. (And I wouldn't be surprised to find out if there's "more to the story" involving the saber, particularly with Ben, so that Rey showing up with that particular saber has more meaning.) Perhaps Leia thought that Luke and Rey would be better able to relate to each other than say, Luke and Poe. Especially if Rey is to be seen as sort of "a new hope" herself (bad pun intended).

[Darth_Awakened]

From all of things we heard so far (and that's little) I think that FO vs Resistance conflict be much more complex because of the emerging of the third side with its own agenda (the remains of Republic Fleet the surviving members of the Republic government).

I had the same impression of Leia wanting Luke back for the sake of the Resistance fight, however there is still possibility that Leia as well wants to try to reach her fallen son, with Luke's help. Leia is a character that never gives up, even if the odds are completely against her.

Also, we still don't know what exactly happened to Luke soon after "Jedi massacre". Did he leave immediately? Without a note? If he did - how then R2 is with the Resistance in TFA - he was obviously at the spot of the massacre - Rey saw it in her vision.

[Magnolia_3.0]

@reylo1992 I loved your exposition of the facts. I put together a line of reasoning based on the films that Rian used as inspiration.

1 - We will probably have a new weapon being built by FO;
2 - There will be some internal strife for leadership in the resistance;
3 - There will be some confrontation where alliances will form unexpected after some defeat;
4 - Someone will become a prisoner of the enemy;
5 - There will be a betrayal of a loyal follower, I imagine that within the FO, someone who will be motivated by his honor (I wish it were Kylo);
6 - Kylo's obsession with finding Rey and Luke, he will follow with his horsemen to Ahch-To in order to prove his valor as a warrior;
7 - Kylo, ​​Rey and Luke are stranded in Ahch-To for some reason, facing some kind of isolation, traumas will be exposed and possibly the reason for their fall to the dark side, but also will be tempted to return to the side of the light. Luke will go through some emotional upheaval and show some insecurity in his decisions. Rey will possibly be shaken by the connection he will have with Kylo (I expect something very dramatic and emotional, especially between Rey and Kylo).

I do not know if all these details will be taken into account, but it is what I have been able to extract from the films mentioned by Rian ... I hope that Kylo's bow of redemption already begins in the VIII spy.

PS: Please let me know if you do not understand my English!

[Darth Dementor]

This could very well just be my own headcanon, I was under the impression that Leia wanted Luke back because of his Force knowledge--I figured that she felt that could help the Resistance "win". Now, this could also just be me mentally filling in the blanks because Snoke so clearly fears a "return" of Luke Skywalker--hence, Snoke's willingness to just destroy the map, if possible.

As to why Leia sent Rey, I figured that had to do with Rey being Force sensitive and ending up in possession of the legacy saber. (And I wouldn't be surprised to find out if there's "more to the story" involving the saber, particularly with Ben, so that Rey showing up with that particular saber has more meaning.) Perhaps Leia thought that Luke and Rey would be better able to relate to each other than say, Luke and Poe. Especially if Rey is to be seen as sort of "a new hope" herself (bad pun intended).

@ISeeAnIsland
 
There is for sure, just watch Han's reaction when Maz produces the lightsaber. It's filled with disgust and anger, the moment he sees it.  Even the tone of his voice when he asks "where did you get that?" Has a tinged of revulsion.   The elder Solo sees it as the thing that sent his boy on the dark path we find him on at the film's beginning.

[spacebaby45678]

I think with ring composition & hero's journey you can make an educated guess as to what the red through line will be, not with certainty but let's give it a try...

with TFA, you have a mirroring/paralleling of ANH & AOTC.. ( B & B ) on the diagram this is evident in the beginning and the end...that is why there was a ton of TFA is a rehash of ANH because it was, ( with some twists).





Lucas noted the parallels just prior to the film’s release:

It starts out as a mystery—who’s trying to kill the Senator, and why? But that’s then juxtaposed against the love story, so I’ve got two stories being told simultaneously right from the beginning. I’ve done that before in the other movie, so stylistically, I’m staying reasonably consistent—not with The Phantom Menace, but more with The Empire Strikes Back. There are a lot of reverberations, scenes that are reprised, between Empire and [Clones].





Plot points of 8

Someone is trying to kill Leia
Ren is searching for Rey & Luke
There is a bounty hunter
Love story
Jedi training
Truth is discovered that turns the protaganist world upside down ( Rey) learns the truth about herself or family


Now how does this match up with the Hero cycle?



at the bottom of the abyss, ( the ending of 7)

The antagonist fights back
Act Two ( Ach To )  the supreme ordeal / new rules
elixir/theft/ ultimate boon/ admitting love
refusal of return
rescue from without
dark night of the soul/death


Above all, however, Lucas’s skillful use of parallelism is a clear indication that the core psychological issues facing Anakin and Luke are the same. “You will see the father and son going through the exact same things,” Lucas says. “It’s just that they make difference choices.” 16 So, like Luke, Anakin will experience fear he cannot even imagine.

[Reylo Lemon]

Kylo Ren is really a dark Luke

[Good-olio Raeh]

Kylo Ren is really a dark Luke

@Maria Antonietta

It is interesting that you say that because Yoda sensed darkness in Luke and was reluctant to train him.  I think the Skywalker blood runs passionate, and passion is the first tenant of Dark Side users. I don't think Luke is dark of course, but I think that's what Yoda senses....

To me, Anakin and Ben Solo represent what happens when someone who runs passionate and has such skills is told that they are unwanted and trash as the prevailing message of their adolescence. Luke had support from the very beginning.  He had a loving but strict uncle and aunt. Plus, he had Obi-Wan Kenobi watch over him.

And passion mixed with more pain than support quickly results in rage.

Both Ben and Anakin gave their mentors and their orders EVERYTHING but only to found wanting. Ben had this happened to him twice.

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