Discussion: Podcasts

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Wow, lots to digest here... I decided yesterday that I'm only going to check Star Wars discussions once a day from now on, and of course the moment I make such a decision, new stuff appears.

I think it was @ISeeAnIsland who wondered what Darth Vader has to do with all this if it's about some prophecy after all - well, it could be that this prophecy is somehow tied to the prophecy of the Chosen One, or that Anakin's lightsaber has something to do with it (considering it was the lightsaber that prompted "It is you!"). Or that something ties the prophecy to the Skywalker family (as, of course, Rey is being drawn to them).

A lot of that stuff is similar to what I've theorised before, so it's quite exciting; I've always suspected it's possible that Rey was meant to be killed in order to avert a prophecy, but the killer couldn't bring himself to kill her, and abandoned her instead - but she would return, as prophesied figures tend to do. Oedipus style.

But my question is, who are the Knights of Rant (seems like a newish podcast?) and how do they have legit "sources" who are in a position to know something this big?

One possibility that occurs to me, btw, is that Kylo is aware of this prophesied girl and thinks she was murdered... until she turns up.

@Darth Dingbat

There is more information here about the Knights of Rant and their sources http://starwarsnonsense.tumblr.com/post/160633023954/do-you-listen-to-the-podcast-knights-of-rant-id

@Mrs Ben Solo

Thanks for posting that! That explanation of their sources is interesting, and it makes sense with the things they said on the podcast.

I do know something that big studios do to hide big spoilers, it may not be happening here but they give out false info to people and different sections of companies in order to  keep true information well hidden.

There have been more reliable sources than possible people who say "they work for Disney."

As was said above, it seems like they have just made this up and based it off the plot of another rian Johnson film?

One thing though, the music at the start of the last Jedi where we meet rey is from where Luke first meets obi wan but, and there's a big but. The music is tainted sounding and off key and creepy/eerie compared to the original. She may be very dark as well as light as we all guessed many times. She could be the bringer of death.

Gemini wrote:I do know something that big studios do to hide big spoilers, it may not be happening here but they give out false info to people and different sections of companies in order to  keep true information well hidden.

There have been more reliable sources than possible people who say "they work for Disney."

As was said above, it seems like they have just made this up and based it off the plot of another rian Johnson film?

One thing though, the music at the start of the last Jedi where we meet rey is from where Luke first meets obi wan but, and there's a big but. The music is tainted sounding and off key and creepy/eerie compared to the original. She may be very dark as well as light as we all guessed many times. She could be the bringer of death.

@Gemini

Nooo! Not our Rey of sunshine!  I don't know. I just don't buy this theory. I don't think Rey being the SW Antichrist is what we're being set up for.

I am pretty sure Jason at MSW said "harbinger of the new jedi" not harbinger of death and doom and destruction... maybe someone else can confirm he said that.

spacebaby45678 wrote:I am pretty sure Jason at MSW said "harbinger of the new jedi" not harbinger of death and doom and destruction... maybe someone else can confirm he said that.

@spacebaby45678

Yep. @kroi did the transcript, page 38 of the previous Podcast thread:

Hey all, 

Just got done transcribing part of today's MSW podcast because there was a disagreement over what was actually said in another forum  and thought y'all would be interested in having a read as well! Very interesting stuff!!

Jason: "Maybe Luke is actually, I’m wondering if maybe Luke is up for it and then when he, ya know I told you guys or I told the audience that I’ve been promised we’re going to get that Luke Skywalker is going to train or tell Rey what her connection to the Force is, that’s the exact wording. It makes me think that what that is scares Luke. It makes me think that what that is, is not a settling thing to him. Maybe he was expecting it to be like ‘Hi, I’m Rey and I’m going to be the next Jedi’ and like that’s what he was thinking was coming to him but instead what comes is like ‘I’m the harbinger of the Jedi’ kind of thing like ‘the Jedi aren’t gonna be a thing anymore’ and maybe he’s pout raging when he’s like ‘it’s time for the Jedi to end’ because it’s just like it’s going that way if Rey is who she’s supposed to be. But I also got to say that when I ever I watch that TFA commentary and JJ says that Kylo Ren or Ben Solo kills his father and then immediately regrets it, I think that right there It’s almost like a promise that Ben Solo is still there, that he’s not Kylo Ren and it makes me wonder how are these things gonna collide and what is it gonna mean, because that’s what’s gonna happen."

What Jason says doesn't contradict Knights of Rant, IMO. 

vaderito wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I am pretty sure Jason at MSW said "harbinger of the new jedi" not harbinger of death and doom and destruction... maybe someone else can confirm he said that.

@spacebaby45678

Yep. @kroi did the transcript, page 38 of the previous Podcast thread:

Hey all, 

Just got done transcribing part of today's MSW podcast because there was a disagreement over what was actually said in another forum  and thought y'all would be interested in having a read as well! Very interesting stuff!!

Jason: "Maybe Luke is actually, I’m wondering if maybe Luke is up for it and then when he, ya know I told you guys or I told the audience that I’ve been promised we’re going to get that Luke Skywalker is going to train or tell Rey what her connection to the Force is, that’s the exact wording. It makes me think that what that is scares Luke. It makes me think that what that is, is not a settling thing to him. Maybe he was expecting it to be like ‘Hi, I’m Rey and I’m going to be the next Jedi’ and like that’s what he was thinking was coming to him but instead what comes is like ‘I’m the harbinger of the Jedi’ kind of thing like ‘the Jedi aren’t gonna be a thing anymore’ and maybe he’s pout raging when he’s like ‘it’s time for the Jedi to end’ because it’s just like it’s going that way if Rey is who she’s supposed to be. But I also got to say that when I ever I watch that TFA commentary and JJ says that Kylo Ren or Ben Solo kills his father and then immediately regrets it, I think that right there It’s almost like a promise that Ben Solo is still there, that he’s not Kylo Ren and it makes me wonder how are these things gonna collide and what is it gonna mean, because that’s what’s gonna happen."

What Jason says doesn't contradict Knights of Rant, IMO. 

@vaderito

I thought I heard him say "Harbinger of the Jedi" but the Jedi are not going to end, what kind of jedi is up for question.

spacebaby45678 wrote:


I thought I heard him say "Harbinger of the Jedi" but the Jedi are not going to end, what kind of jedi is up for question.

@spacebaby45678

Listen again, and if you still hear differently, do the transcript yourself and then compare notes:  

https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars

vaderito wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:


I thought I heard him say "Harbinger of the Jedi" but the Jedi are not going to end, what kind of jedi is up for question.

@spacebaby45678

Listen again, and if you still hear differently, do the transcript yourself and then compare notes:  

https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars

@vaderito

Do you know at what point it plays, he did say Harbinger of Jedi? No ?

They did play up the weird dark mojo on Jakku in Empire's End and Rey has lived there for years, could play into the the hints around Snoke, her parents, etc. Not that she is the Anti Christ of SW, but anything can happen. Weird that Luke would possibly not want to train her sensing she has something to do with the end of the Jedi since he seems to admit that, unless her showing up just hammers the point home for him? Maybe Luke is kinda in denial about it?

spacebaby45678 wrote:


Do you know at what point it plays, he did say Harbinger of Jedi? No ?  

@spacebaby45678

1:08:00 in this podcast (Mother Proxima):

https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars/episode-178-mother-proxima-jump-the-gun

vaderito wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:


Do you know at what point it plays, he did say Harbinger of Jedi? No ?  

@spacebaby45678

1:08:00 in this podcast (Mother Proxima):

https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars/episode-178-mother-proxima-jump-the-gun

@vaderito

Thanks!

Helix wrote:They did play up the weird dark mojo on Jakku in Empire's End and Rey has lived there for years, could play into the the hints around Snoke, her parents, etc. Not that she is the Anti Christ of SW, but anything can happen. Weird that Luke would possibly not want to train her sensing she has something to do with the end of the Jedi since he seems to admit that, unless her showing up just hammers the point home for him? Maybe Luke is kinda in denial about it?

@Helix

Based on Daisy's interview that Luke doesn't know who Rey is and Luke's line being "Who are you?" as in "WTF are you?", it seems to me that Luke either discovers whatever scary thing from Rey (she tells him about the awakening and/or connection with Kylo or whatever) or during the training (lets say she shows unusual abilities that haven't been seen before).

Listened to that part of the podcast again, @kroi transcript is on the money. @spacebaby45678

Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This "Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

Not buying it, Im just gonna go with what the story seems to have presented in TFA.

Gemini wrote:Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This "Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

Not buying it, Im just gonna go with what the story seems to have presented in TFA.

@Gemini

Well if she is a Harbinger of Doom Luke should kill her sunshine jakku azz right on the spot, and find Kylo a new Girlfriend to redeem him.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Gemini wrote:Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This "Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

Not buying it, Im just gonna go with what the story seems to have presented in TFA.

@Gemini

Well if she is a Harbinger of Doom Luke should kill her sunshine jakku azz right on the spot, and find Kylo a new Girlfriend to redeem him.

@spacebaby45678

Exactly

Rey is what pulls Kylo to the light in TFA..she represents the light to him. The saber on the poster is representing light pulling the Skywalkers out of the darkness.

So dark Rey pulls dark kylo and dark Luke out of the darkness?

Its just not fitting with anything the actual films and merchandise are putting forward about Rey.

Gemini wrote:Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

@Gemini

Wouldn't absorbing Kylo's darkness cancel the harbinger out? The Girl Who Could But Couldn't.   

I don't think that anything cancels anything out cause we don't even know what's what. Info that we are working with is too small and vague right now. There will be more details in upcoming months, however.

But cause it's fun to speculate,lets say Rey was harbinger of doom. Kylo'd heard of the harbinger, wanted to destroy it to save the world, but didn't know who it was. So he killed all available padawan...and thus unwittingly became the harbinger of doom, "fell into Rey's place". In the meantime, to balance things out, the Force awakened in the harbinger (Rey) and thus made her the harbinger of the Jedi. 

Big question of the day is, how Snoke's grooming of Kylo fits in all that?

vaderito wrote:

Gemini wrote:Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

@Gemini

Wouldn't absorbing Kylo's darkness cancel the harbinger out? The Girl Who Could But Couldn't.   

I don't think that anything cancels anything out cause we don't even know what's what. Info that we are working with is too small and vague right now. There will be more details in upcoming months, however.

But cause it's fun to speculate,lets say Rey was harbinger of doom. Kylo'd heard of the harbinger, wanted to destroy it to save the world, but didn't know who it was. So he killed all available padawan...and thus unwittingly became the harbinger of doom, "fell into Rey's place". In the meantime, to balance things out, the Force awakened in the harbinger (Rey) and thus made her the harbinger of the Jedi. 

Big question of the day is, how Snoke's grooming of Kylo fits in all that?

@vaderito

Its just that if Rey is supposed to redeem Kylo or be a big factor in this, I can't see how her being dark is what redeems a dark character.

Rey suddenly becoming dark only happens after she connects with Kylo in 2 scenes.

Its not something in her character before this really?, it just comes out after she's absorbed or shared a moment with Kylo..she fights like him she becomes darker, he becomes lighter. The interrogation scene, she absorbs and becomes manic..he becomes scared and ends like she started in that scene..scared and light.

Its always fun to speculate but its just confusing me lol

Even with the "I know a guy" angle (and from personal experience that's everybody's line in LA), it's a little to close to Looper's main premise with Cid as the Rainmaker while also coming up with a premise that's complicated enough that it fails Old Joe's diagram with soda straws line. I don't doubt she's got some darkness, that she got left on Jakku because her family were mixed up with Snoke and the FO, and that her powers/having a connection via the Force with Ben will freak out an already depressed/conflicted Luke. Who likely will not be a cool Mr Miyagi type figure to her. But it sounds too convoluted and fan fictiony to be like everything else  Johnson has written. And we know that he's said he was given creative freedom.

I was thinking more along the lines of growing up on a Darkside well like Jakku ( if they even use those elements in the film, I'd hope so considering how important it seemed and the whole Jakku is ''inconsequential' fake-out ) might have rubbed off on her. She may have to prove to Luke just because of that doesn't mean she is a Darksider or wishes to use only it. She seems horrified of it and her almost giving in to it in TFA. Obviously she'll be tempted more, a goody-good Rey with absolutely no temptation would have no weight.

I don't buy anti-christ, but having some residual darkside taint? Maybe.

snufkin wrote:Even with the "I know a guy" angle (and from personal experience that's everybody's line in LA), it's a little to close to Looper's main premise with Cid as the Rainmaker while also coming up with a premise that's complicated enough that it fails Old Joe's diagram with soda straws line. I don't doubt she's got some darkness, that she got left on Jakku because her family were mixed up with Snoke and the FO, and that her powers/having a connection via the Force with Ben will freak out an already depressed/conflicted Luke. Who likely will not be a cool Mr Miyagi type figure to her. But it sounds too convoluted and fan fictiony to be like everything else  Johnson has written. And we know that he's said he was given creative freedom.

@snufkin

And Looper is a convoluted time traveling mess all by itself to start with. However, I could entertain the Harbinger of Doom if Rey is a Kenobi, it would make total sense with what is in canon but I will save the wheresfores and why's for a meta analysis.

ST problem is that OT and PT did these 2 scenarios:

OT - family drama, father fell to the dark side, is son going to follow or kill the father or redeem him?

PT = the Chosen One un-chooses himself

and ST really has no options but to repeat either of them or do reversal of either of them (which is still a repeat). 

So the anti-Christ (Rey) who becomes the Christ cause the Christ  (Kylo) became the anti-Christ in his pursuit to destroy the anti-Christ and then the Christ helping the anti-Christ to redeem himself is technically possible scenario cause it's a variation of PT/OT. And when you think about it, the way TFA is set up, they really have no room for wiggling away from either scenario. It's going to be a variation of something.

vaderito wrote:ST problem is that OT and PT did these 2 scenarios:

OT - family drama, father fell to the dark side, is son going to follow or kill the father or redeem him?

PT = the Chosen One un-chooses himself

and ST really has no options but to repeat either of them or do reversal of either of them (which is still a repeat). 

So the anti-Christ (Rey) who becomes the Christ cause the Christ  (Kylo) became the anti-Christ in his pursuit to destroy the anti-Christ and then the Christ helping the anti-Christ to redeem himself is technically possible scenario cause it's a variation of PT/OT. And when you think about it, the way TFA is set up, they really have no room for wiggling away from either scenario. It's going to be a variation of something.

@vaderito

I love it! And the only appropriate gif for this comment

Gemini wrote:Rey scaring Luke?

Could it be because she took some of the darkness from Kylo? Absorbed the shadow? She's wearing grey not white..she's tainted. Of course it would scare Luke. Kylo turned on him..Rey is stinking of Kylo when she meets him

That boy is all over her.

TFA ending, the cliff, remember, the absorbing, the connection?

This "Rey is the harbinger" would cancel all of that out. A lot of things we saw in TFA cancelled out if she is a harbinger of death or evil.

Not buying it, Im just gonna go with what the story seems to have presented in TFA.

@Gemini

I'd love it if we actually got the following scenario as the way that Luke figures out Rey's connection to Kylo:

1. Luke watches Rey train with a lightsaber. She does a showy spinning/pirouette type move.
2. Luke, very suspicious: "Where did you learn that....?"

(And in the shareholder's footage, wasn't there a shot not shown in the trailer of Rey showing off some flashy lightsaber moves?)

spacebaby45678 wrote:

snufkin wrote:Even with the "I know a guy" angle (and from personal experience that's everybody's line in LA), it's a little to close to Looper's main premise with Cid as the Rainmaker while also coming up with a premise that's complicated enough that it fails Old Joe's diagram with soda straws line. I don't doubt she's got some darkness, that she got left on Jakku because her family were mixed up with Snoke and the FO, and that her powers/having a connection via the Force with Ben will freak out an already depressed/conflicted Luke. Who likely will not be a cool Mr Miyagi type figure to her. But it sounds too convoluted and fan fictiony to be like everything else  Johnson has written. And we know that he's said he was given creative freedom.

@snufkin

And Looper is a convoluted time traveling mess all by itself to start with. However, I could entertain the Harbinger of Doom if Rey is a Kenobi, it would make total sense with what is in canon but I will save the wheresfores and why's for a meta analysis.

@spacebaby45678

That's the whole line about diagrams with soda straws!

But I remember when it came out and film nerds started writing their own criticisms, there were a couple interviews where Johnson explained the different tropes he was playing with. Which interestingly enough, is also something Safety Not Guaranteed plays with.

For Looper, the time travel angle covers up what the story is actually about, deciding what sort of person you're going to be and most important, about family. So besides my skepticism about the convoluted scenario and "I know a guy" (which having family friends in LA who also work in the industry, I'm skeptical because everybody has that line), it overlooks the central theme/conflict, it's about families. Not the big crazy scenario of an anti-Christ or Chosen One.  If there's going to be a central theme that's getting ignored because it's not some sexy Star Warsy sounding theme, it's about the legacy of who the patriarch of the family was, the fallout/backlash of his identity being revealed, and in turn the impact on his children and in turn their role as the guardians/caregiver of Leia and Han's son. Which sure, Kenobi angle, could in turn be about the fallout on Rey as a the descendant of the man who tried to teach/mentor this Chosen One individual and barring that, failed and also kept the secret. But whatever the story is, it has to be able about the relationships and families. Even if it's the expectations of the Chosen One or a high profile hero for Luke and how that played out for Ben with expectations both of his parents/uncle's legacy on one side and then Vader on the other side as Kylo Ren. And from the looks of it, failing and miserable with either scenario instead of finding his own path.

I also get the sense that the people who have heard whispers and hearsay of spoilers have not heard anything beyond the second act of the film. I never hear people talking about the ending or where its all going to end in the final act. The big ole Star Wars twist happens moments from the ending of the film in the second instalment of the OT.

I think Act 3 of this movie is the best kept secret...