Discussion: Podcasts

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Irina de France wrote:Catholic here: the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is a dogma acknowledged by the Roman Catholic Church only. It's a concept that's been around for a very long time, but it's been acknowledged as a dogma in 1854 by pope Pius IX, way after Orthodox and Protestant Churches separated from Rome.

So thing is, Daisy is British, and if she is religious or has been raised in a religious family, chances are high that she's Protestant since that's what's dominant in the UK, and Protestant churches don't acknowledge the Immaculate Conception dogma, and the level of veneration towards the Virgin Mary definitely isn't as strong as in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So that's where the confusion might come from.

This said, Our Lord Jesus Christ was an Immaculate Conception as well. Immaculate Conceptipn includes two things:

a) Jesus incarnated Himself without the mark of the Original Sin of course, because He is God, of course, and Mary was created without the mark of the Original Sin, being the Mother of God;

b) Both of them were virgin births.

So from a theological pov, saying that Anakin is an immaculate conception is inaccurate (because he wouldn't be such a freaking mess, good lord), and virgin birth would be the right term.

(Thus endeth the catechism class)

@Irina de France

As another Catholic jumping in, I don't believe St. Anne was a virgin when she gave birth to Mary. She and St. Joachim had been married for a while. The Virgin birth was a miracle limited to Christ alone. However, yes, Mary was the Immaculate Conception because she was born without Original Sin because she was destined to be the mother of Christ.

Back to SW, I didn't think that they would create another virgin birth/ made by the force baby, for the sheer fact that they had done it with Anakin and wouldn't want to repeat themselves.

Lily Snape wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Irina de France wrote:Catholic here: the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is a dogma acknowledged by the Roman Catholic Church only. It's a concept that's been around for a very long time, but it's been acknowledged as a dogma in 1854 by pope Pius IX, way after Orthodox and Protestant Churches separated from Rome.

So thing is, Daisy is British, and if she is religious or has been raised in a religious family, chances are high that she's Protestant since that's what's dominant in the UK, and Protestant churches don't acknowledge the Immaculate Conception dogma, and the level of veneration towards the Virgin Mary definitely isn't as strong as in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So that's where the confusion might come from.

This said, Our Lord Jesus Christ was an Immaculate Conception as well. Immaculate Conceptipn includes two things:

a) Jesus incarnated Himself without the mark of the Original Sin of course, because He is God, of course, and Mary was created without the mark of the Original Sin, being the Mother of God;

b) Both of them were virgin births.

So from a theological pov, saying that Anakin is an immaculate conception is inaccurate (because he wouldn't be such a freaking mess, good lord), and virgin birth would be the right term.

(Thus endeth the catechism class)

@Irina de France

As another Catholic jumping in, I don't believe St. Anne was a virgin when she gave birth to Mary. She and St. Joachim had been married for a while. The Virgin birth was a miracle limited to Christ alone. However, yes, Mary was the Immaculate Conception because she was born without Original Sin because she was destined to be the mother of Christ.

Back to SW, I didn't think that they would create another virgin birth/ made by the force baby, for the sheer fact that they had done it with Anakin and wouldn't want to repeat themselves.

@SoloSideCousin

Yep, the Catholic Church believes that Mary was conceived (by her mother and father, the usual way) without sin, which is the Immaculate Conception, whereas the conception of Jesus is referred to as the Virgin Birth of Jesus.  And this Catholic school grad (I think that part was obvious) devoutly hopes that Star Wars will not have another Virgin Birth.  Anakin was one too many, as far as I'm concerned, because that's how we got midichlorians.  

Kylo Rey wrote:So had a listen of the MSW podcast (took 1hr 48min, they ramble SO much, had it on in the background really), but here's what Jason had to say in response to the other podcaster talking about how Lucasfilm must be really confident about TLJ to release news of RJ directing his own trilogy a month early:

Well, and then, the other thing is, FWIW, the other thing I kinda noticed what happened was - once people started seeing TLJ - not in a way that was just like whatever the last thing that's old sucks, they started getting way more critical of Force Awakens after TLJ. Which made me go: "Last Jedi is the one they [Lucasfilm] really wanted to make when they started this trilogy." They're getting the story they wanted.

He was definitely speaking in a positive tone about this. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/

PalmettoBlue wrote:Help, please!
A friend of mine and I are starting a new podcast. I'm uploading our first episode to Soundcloud now! It's not a podcast dedicated to Star Wars, but since I am who I am, we will be mentioning it frequently and discussing it in-depth in several episodes.
On the next one (which we plan to record this week), I want to preview The Last Jedi and sort of bring our audience up to speed on why I land where I do on the spectrum.
So - here's the question: what would y'all like to see discussed? Anything specific from TFA? I'm thinking the "bridal carry," the interrogation scene, the snow fight, and the forehead kiss.
Should I get into the gatekeeping? Ignore it?
Dive into the trailers?
Marketing?
Any thoughts would be appreciated....

PalmettoBlue wrote:@Maria Antonietta Everything? Every, everything?
*note to self: this might take more than one podcast....

snufkin wrote: He took over as director while first choice Brad Bird tried to convince KK that she should have Trevorrow babysit pre-production while he was finishing Tomorrowland,

Kylo Men wrote:

snufkin wrote: He took over as director while first choice Brad Bird tried to convince KK that she should have Trevorrow babysit pre-production while he was finishing Tomorrowland,

That was a sound career move.

TFA has its weaknesses, but particularly I think people overlook how hard it is to carve out the type of instantly indelible characters that Rey and Kylo Ren are.

Out of 17 positively reviewed Marvel movies, name one villain. OK, Loki. But even he's not quite a top-level baddie.

Rogue One doesn't have a single character that stands out.

PS: One of the tests I use for whether or not someone is a great director - has he or she ever created a character that more than one person has dressed up as for Halloween? It works well.

snufkin wrote:@PalmettoBlue - If you wanna get into gatekeeping, beyond the overarching issue of LF trying to dismantle the whole gross Boy's Club culture around geek spaces (surprise, the nerds became the jocks and they're equally as misogynistic and racist) through its casting and merchandising is how the ST has brought out all of these issues around female participation with fandom. Including a wrinkle not just about what type of fan female fans 'should' be, but bringing in how there's also gatekeeping in feminism. I've said here before, but I tend to find a lot of the mainstream feminist discourse around SW to be equal parts purity culture and second wave feminism. And meanwhile spaces like this one, we tend to be more 3rd wave. Both groups are at least intersectional, but 3rd wave, we don't have the same issues a lot of mainstream fans have, where female fans have been simply fighting for years to get to be part of the Boy's Club. We're fine creating our own spaces/voices (which are getting more attention) and also the idea that there has already been some type of sexual interaction between the heroine and her antagonist/villain, we don't see that as undercutting her agency or moral authority (more like "go get that girl! And those other two hot male leads too if that's what you're into").

Many progressive viewers have been trained to cheer when a movie avoids love interests all together, and it is indeed a blessed relief to watch a contemporary Disney cartoon and not be absolutely sure that it will involve marrying off its heroine. By giving screen time to romance, Wonder Woman does pay more attention to Steve Trevor than most superhero movies pay to his distaff equivalents, and it feels less embarrassed to give Diana a mushy lesson about the power of love than movies about male heroes might.

Those differences might seem sexist, but they’re also part of why the movie isn’t just a simple act of gender-flipping a formula. It helps that Wonder Woman doesn’t rely on romance alone for its emotional power;

Romance is often gendered as a genre or a subplot “for women,” just as action-packed superhero movie are often gendered as “for men.” This has left plenty of superhero movies, even good ones, doubly fearful of sexism: both afraid of it and afraid because of it. Filmmakers may be wary of turning a female character into a cardboard love object/damsel, but plenty are probably just as wary of comparisons to, say, Twilight, easily the most prominent of fantastical onscreen romances (and more virulently dismissed by a certain crowd than less moony-eyed genre fare). This caution ignores the rich history of romantic movies, both melodramas and comedies, and as outliers like Logan and Christopher Nolan’s Batman movies have shown, there’s a lot of value in letting superhero movies dabble in other genres, rather than letting them wander around a superhero echo chamber. Although Wonder Woman wouldn’t look quite so special if more superhero movies paid more attention to romance, the sheer number that downplays them manages to set Jenkins’ movie apart even as it adheres to certain aspects of the DC house style and the superhero genre overall.

Moreover, love stories aren’t just a part of classic movie genres and Twilight; they’re also a part of life. DC’s extended universe has tried to imagine what it would be like if titanic, mythical figures interacted with the grit of the “real” world, while Marvel’s has tried (more successfully) to create a parallel world of fantastical derring-do and quasi-scientific miracles and then imbue it with messy humanity. The romance of Wonder Woman, no matter how swoony or relatively abbreviated, is what makes it feel particularly alive.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

whisperingwillow wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

@Cowgirlsamurai

He said this today about how Kylo can redeem himself when asked



but I don't agree at all. If he thinks Kylo is straight up bad then I don't know what to say at this point. Also good to know I don't need to listen to their podcast. Kylo redeeming himself with death is literally a carbon copy of Vader and would literally send the message that the only way to redeem yourself is to die. If Kylo is to represent the lost youth as Kathy Kennedy has said then the story being he has to die to be redeemed is the absolute worst message you can send to young troubled teens today.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

KrazyForKylo wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

@Cowgirlsamurai

As far as I can tell, he sees the Skywalker Saga coming full circle in Ep IX by Kylo being killed/sacrificing himself and going back to the force from which Anakin was created.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

KrazyForKylo wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

@Cowgirlsamurai

As far as I can tell, he sees the Skywalker Saga coming full circle in Ep IX by Kylo being killed/sacrificing himself and going back to the force from which Anakin was created.

@KrazyForKylo

You know what’s funny? My husband said the same thing. Anakin came from “nothing” and Kylo will become “nothing,” ending the Skywalkers and bringing things “full circle.” WTF, that sounds so freaking sad.

KrazyForKylo wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

@Cowgirlsamurai

As far as I can tell, he sees the Skywalker Saga coming full circle in Ep IX by Kylo being killed/sacrificing himself and going back to the force from which Anakin was created.

KrazyForKylo wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

KrazyForKylo wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Anyone listen to the Full of Sith podcast? Since I loved Bryan Young’s three part series on the soundtrack, I started following him on Twitter and I’ve enjoyed most of what he has to say about the film. But today, I started listening to Full of Sith starting at the first episode after TLJ and he and the two cohosts agree 100% that this film PROVED that Kylo cannot be redeemed. I was floored. Also, this was a 1.5 hour long podcast on discussing their first reactions to the film and there was next to NO mention of Rey and Kylo’s dynamic other than their heartbreaking fallout after Snoke’s death (which further cements Kylo’s forever evil status to them). I started digging through his tweets and he does in fact state that Luke saying he can’t save Kylo means that Kylo’s doomed to the dark forever. He doesn’t address comments like “What about Luke saying ‘No one’s ever really gone?’” and Bryan replies to a lot of people normally. WTF? Has anyone listened the other follow up episodes? Dude’s supposedly seen the film 15 times now. Has he changed his mind? If so, he hasn’t posted about it on Twitter where he’s quite vocal. He hopes Force ghost Luke comes back to f*** with Kylo because of how straight up bad he is. I just can’t understand how you come out of this film wanting that.

@Cowgirlsamurai

As far as I can tell, he sees the Skywalker Saga coming full circle in Ep IX by Kylo being killed/sacrificing himself and going back to the force from which Anakin was created.

@KrazyForKylo

You know what’s funny? My husband said the same thing. Anakin came from “nothing” and Kylo will become “nothing,” ending the Skywalkers and bringing things “full circle.” WTF, that sounds so freaking sad.

@Cowgirlsamurai

It’s not what I want to happen but I can totally see it ending with Kylo sacrificing himself to save Rey and the galaxy. I don’t agree with Bryan Young on everything and I don’t want him to be right about this, he makes some convincing arguments though! https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/954572985045667840