Virgin!Kylo: Yea or Nay?

Yes, I think he is a virgin, and if he isn't, at least he is celibate. That's the vibe he exudes.

I had written a post on the on the other board explaining why I think that. I'm going to add it here.

I don’t have a clear idea on this, but the clothes he wears may be hinting at his possible celibacy,if not virginity, perhaps both. I mean, he looks very much like a Knight Templar and those were warrior monks and celibate. They left their homes and families of origin, weren’t allowed to own lands or take a wife and joined an order that ruled their lives for ever and involved absolute commitment and loyalty.

In fact, his light sabre looks very much like a medieval sword a Knight Templar would have and he is called a knight after all, a knight of Ren. Why making him resemble a warrior monk? That robe with a cowl that he wears is very similar to Obi Wan’s or Luke’s but in a different a colour.

Those robes, the long tunic, the cowl, the medieval-looking light sabre, all that makes me think of someone celibate who rejects intimacy in all senses. According to the novelization, the aim of his training was to keep him completely devoid of emotion, so he tries to cut himself from feeling and this could include physical intimacy as well as other types of intimacy. By the way, he is failing miserably at this, cause his face shows such emotional turmoil it’s shocking.

There is something else, the way he wears those clothes as a sort of armour to isolate himself from other people. The helm he wears with that intimidating mask, for instance. He doesn’t want people to see his face, he even tries to hide his exposed face from Hux looking incredibly ucomfortable when they are both with Snoke. And it’s not only the mask, but that tunic whose collar is so high you can’t even see his neck, as if trying to cover every inch of skin. He also wears gloves all the time, even inside his ship or SK, as if he wanted to avoid any kind of touch.

Well, it’s hard to imagine someone like him letting anyone touch him, we don’t even see his hands or his neck during the whole movie,not even once, and I think that means something, that he avoids physical contact with anyone perhaps? Maybe he’s trying to distance himself from humanity in the most extreme way possible to keep feelings at bay,or rather to avoid them completely.

And then he does the unforgivable, he kills his own father , and what does Han do? He touches his son’s face with tenderness and makes him FEEL, exactly what Ren wants so desperately to avoid. Before that, Ren shows his face to Ray and it’s more than clear that he wants to touch her, to be near her, in fact he does touch her when he carries her in his arms. I think he’s losing his battle against his own humanity all the way.


During the final fight, Ren says “Han Solo can’t save you now”. Well, perhaps that’s what he always hoped when Snoke was messing with his mind, he hoped that Han, the great hero who was able to help destroy DS and aided Luke in such a desperate moment would be able to save him, his son, but no one could and he fell into darkness. I would like to believe that, in a way, Han gave him his final gift, his forgiveness and love, making it possible for him to forgive himself to some extent, although never completely as that would be impossible after what he did, and eventually find redemption.

I think Rey has not been in any relationships while on Jakku. Friendship or otherwise.

Her reaction when Finn asks if she's okay is that of someone who doesn't normally get asked that question. She's taken aback by it. This tells me that she's probably been on her own for a solidly long time. A friend, or lover, generally cares about how you feel. I don't think she's had that before.

We first see Rey doing her work scavenging, trading in parts for rations, and being preoccupied by the past and by the hope of her family returning. There doesn't appear to be much wiggle room in there to let anyone new in. I think she kept to herself and observed other people but didn't go beyond that. It was finally a droid, not a person, who managed to break through her isolation bubble, and even adorable little BB-8 had a hard time convincing her at first.

About Kylo, I think he's most likely a virgin as well. I don't see him as having let anyone into his life in that sense. He's on an extremely short leash with Snoke, I'd be surprised if he's had any actual friends since joining the First Order, much less a romantic partner.

The finefolks at AllAbout Romance have a list (broken into historic eras or modern day) of Virginial Heroes. (bit.ly/1LUsDtY ) Wonder if I could cross-refence that with their Tortured Heroes list?

Repeat from TFN post - THE BEST example of tortured Virginial Hero? The Shadow and the Star by Lauta Kinsale

Sith, people, someone MUST write a big meta on Virgin!Kylo. We have material. Vetsal priestesses. Virginal Heroes in romance novels. Templar Knights. The movie itself. Novelization where Snoke calls Kylo "pure". THAT face.

C'mon, any takers? Pleeeeease!

vaderito wrote:Sith, people, someone MUST write a big meta on Virgin!Kylo. We have material. Vetsal priestesses. Virginal Heroes in romance novels. Templar Knights. The movie itself. Novelization where Snoke calls Kylo "pure". THAT face.

C'mon, any takers? Pleeeeease!

Yes! Especially now that BvS took Henry Cavill's Clark Kent off the VH list ( at least in my headcanon).

BastilaBey wrote:do you guys also think rey is a virgin? i am less sure about her, even though she is younger and childlike in lots of ways. i think she may be just based on how thrown she is by ren in the interrogation

I think she is a virgin too, but because of her youth and how isolated she has lived. I think the reasons are different and she would be less shy to show her body to another person and see his/hers. She's learned she has to be careful because people can hurt her or try to take advantage of her, but I can imagine her feeling comfortable sharing her body with someone she cares about and whom she trusts.

For him I imagine this would be different, because he makes such an effort to cover every inch of his skin and not to touch or be touched.This tells us he is not comfortable with human touch, he has probably never allowed anyone to see him naked since he was a kid and changing this will be like a trial for him.

Remember how ucomfortable he looks when Hux sees his faces, for the first time, I guess?
It has just occurred to me, that showing his face to Rey was something incredibly unusual and important for Ren, that showing his face felt for him like showing his naked body for others. When he looked at her after taking off his mask, he looked attractive and as if he knew he had a nice face, but also so vulnerable, I think that felt like being totally exposed in front of her.

She doesn't try to hide the shape of her body with her clothes the way he tries to hide his, so I think both are virgins, but in his case, this is because of his unnatural struggle to rein his human needs, which include his capacity to feel. He is all about restraint, forceful self-imposed restraint.

BastilaBey wrote:

CienaRee wrote:@BastiallaBey,I'm 100% sure Rey's a virgin.She didn't like Finn touching her and in the Before The Awakening novel it's mentioned that Rey never works with other scavengers because she only trusts herself so virgin for sure.

You are probably right, she's described as a loner in that book and Finn is her first friend. If it wasn't a Disney movie, I'd say Rey would have had to do some pretty tragic things in order to survive as a young woman on Jakku but clearly that's not going to be part of her character's canon.

Yeah, I agree that she would probably have suffered nasty experiences if she lived in the real world but the same could probably be said about him if he has been manipulated since childhood by an evil controlling adult who later groomed him because he's such a pure specimen of Force holder. This sounds very creepy to me. Snoke seduced Kylo to the Dark side, Leia chooses this worlds and Kylo says to Snoke he won't be seduced. They choose this world twice.

This is a Disney movie, so I'd say both are virgins, if this was gritty fantasy, or even real life, I'd guess they both could have suffered some type of molestation as kids. His looking so restrained and repressed and her feeling so unnerved when people touch her would suggest that.

Reynak wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:do you guys also think rey is a virgin? i am less sure about her, even though she is younger and childlike in lots of ways. i think she may be just based on how thrown she is by ren in the interrogation

I think she is a virgin too, but because of her youth and how isolated she has lived. I think the reasons are different and she would be less shy to show her body to another person and see his/hers. She's learned she has to be careful because people can hurt her or try to take advantage of her, but I can imagine her feeling comfortable sharing her body with someone she cares about and whom she trust.

For him I imagine this would be different, because he makes such an effort to cover every inch of his sking and not to touch or be touched this tells us he is not comfortable with human contact, he has probably never allowed anyone to see him naked since he was a kid and changing this will be like a trial for him.

Remember how ucomfortable he looks when Hux sees his faces, for the first time, I guess?
It has just occurred to me, that showing his face to Rey was something incredibly unusual and important for Rey, that showing his face felt for him like showing his naked body for others. When he looked at her after taking off his mask, he looked attractive and as if he knew he had a nice face, but also so vulnerable, I think that felt like being totally exposed in front of her.

She doesn't try to hide the shape of body with her clothes the way he tries to hide his, so I think both are virgins, but in his case, this is because of his unnatural struggle to rein his human needs, which include his capacity to feel. He is all about restraint, forceful self-imposed restraint.

You must write Virgin!Kylo meta. Everyone else can too but you must.

Both are virgins for sure due to isolation - hers is literally physical isolation (lives in the desert) while his is more of metaphorical one though he gave it physical from thought his clothing.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:do you guys also think rey is a virgin? i am less sure about her, even though she is younger and childlike in lots of ways. i think she may be just based on how thrown she is by ren in the interrogation

It's not even a question for me. Rey, Finn and Ren are all virgins. Children's fairytale/coming-of-age story basically demands it.

Poor kidsj, LOL!

WhatGirl wrote:I think Rey has not been in any relationships while on Jakku. Friendship or otherwise.

Her reaction when Finn asks if she's okay is that of someone who doesn't normally get asked that question. She's taken aback by it. This tells me that she's probably been on her own for a solidly long time. A friend, or lover, generally cares about how you feel. I don't think she's had that before.

We first see Rey doing her work scavenging, trading in parts for rations, and being preoccupied by the past and by the hope of her family returning. There doesn't appear to be much wiggle room in there to let anyone new in. I think she kept to herself and observed other people but didn't go beyond that. It was finally a droid, not a person, who managed to break through her isolation bubble, and even adorable little BB-8 had a hard time convincing her at first.

About Kylo, I think he's most likely a virgin as well. I don't see him as having let anyone into his life in that sense. He's on an extremely short leash with Snoke, I'd be surprised if he's had any actual friends since joining the First Order, much less a romantic partner.

Yes, I agree with all this. And this has made me remember something. When Rey is in Jakku, cleaning the objects she has obtained scavenging, she looks up and sees a very old lady, alone, doing the same as her and Rey looks at her for a long time. In my view, the old lady doesn't remind her of a grandmother she probably can't remember, I think she is looking at what will become of her if nothing happens in her life to change it. She is looking at her future, what she doesn't know is that her life is about to change.

When we meet Kylo also in Jakku, in the village the STs attack, he sees San Tekka, looks him from head to toe and says, 'Look how old you've become'. Well, the irony is that San Tekka is also a monkish man without a family who has dedicated his life to a cause.

Both Rey and Ren are looking at their future, looking at what they will become if they don't meet. But this future is about to change when they meet. This is because he is the belonging she seeks and she is the Light he has been trying to keep away since he fell trapped by Darkness. Yes, they are both virgins because their bond (fate, the Force, whatever we want to call it) will have it no other way, they belong to each other so that they can stop being lonely, scared and so afraid to leave.

I think this comparison with the old man and old woman was done on purpose, but if it wasn't, it works so beautifully as foreshadowing,as a symbol of the potential future that is about to change, that it should have been done by design.

Reynak wrote:  

Yes, I agree with all this. And this has made me remember something. When Rey is in Jakku, cleaning the objects she has obtained scavenging, she looks up and sees a very old lady, alone, doing the same as her and Rey looks at her for a long time. In my view, she is not remembering a grandmother she doesn't remember, I think she is looking at what will become of her if nothing happens in her life to change it. She is looking at her future, what she doesn't know is that he life is about to change.

When we meet Kylo also in Jakku, in the village the STs attack, he sees San Tekka, looks him from head to toe and says, 'Look how old you've become'. Well, the irony is that San Tekka is also a monkish man without a family who has dedicated his life to a cause.

Both Rey and Ren are looking at their future, looking at what they will become if they don't meet. But this future is about to change when they meet. This is because he is the belonging she seeks and she is the Light he has been trying to keep away since he feel trapped by Darkness. Yes, they are both virgins because their bond (fate, the Force, whatever we want to call it) will have it no other way, they belong to each other to stop being lonely, scared and afraid to leave.

I think this comparison with the old man and old woman was done on purpose, but if it wasn't, it works so beautifully as foreshadowing,as a symbol of the potential future that is about to change, that it should have been done by design.

So, I think they are both virginal, and would end up as lonely and

OMG, Reynak, you rock this! I've never heard anyone bring up those 2 scenes as something that actually binds Rey and Kylo since they essentially show their possible future. That's why I love this pairing so much. Just as one thinks there's nothing else to say, one finds another layer.

But yes, their future has changed because they met and they met because they will change the future. Reylo is bigger than just Rey and Kylo. Cosmic fate depends on them so the Force willed it that they meet and TFA is really about that, not about finding Luke.

As a 30 year old myself, I find it very difficult to believe he would be a virgin, even if it was just casual. It's quite possible that he's never been in love though.

Oh, I rooting for Virgin Kylo because it fit the "Young virgin bewitched by an Evil Lord and is await to be rescued by a Hero" theme that I have read before,*cough* (though he does have a killer body for a virgin) *cough*

Have a look at the way Rey looks at the old lady, look at her face:

http://41.media.tumblr.com/035d70a452896aad0021276414b5558d/tumblr_inline_o4rij7okDr1r8yc92_1280.jpg

And this is where Kylo looks at Lor San Tekka.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/e7e1f22cffd02c90479919d20c711d64/tumblr_inline_o4rihwIy5r1r8yc92_1280.png

The more I think about it, the more I believe this comparison is deliberate.
As for comparing Kylo with a modern 30 year old, consider that this happened in a galaxy far away, long long ago, LOL.

Seriously, theirs is a mythical world, fantasy gives you the chance to explore alternative realities that wouldn't be possible in our modern world. What we should do is consider the symbology and what it means in story telling, so I think these youngsters are virgins. This also make sense if they are chosen by fate to be the one and only for each other.

Of course I know this would be incredible in RL, but this is fantasy, the realm of tales and dreams. Nothing to do with our everyday lives.

Sylvia Snow wrote:Oh, I rooting for Virgin Kylo because it fit the "Young virgin bewitched by an Evil Lord and is await to be rescued by a Hero" theme that I have read before,*cough* (though he does have a killer body for a virgin) *cough*

They are totally doing that trope with a male character here. Kylo is bewitched young virgin, Evil Lord is Creeper Snoke and Rey is the Hero(ine). Love breaks the spell.

@Airemyn I understand your point. However, SW universe probably has different rules and we know that the Jedi are also a bit on a celibacy side. What's the best way to avoid temptation to possess (someone) and get emotionally attached 9to someone)? Abstinence. So it isn't unusual in particular in trained FS circles.

@Reynak Ha, Kylo's stance is like Rey's face "well, sith, am I gonna end up like that?"

Sylvia Snow wrote:Oh, I rooting for Virgin Kylo because it fit the "Young virgin bewitched by an Evil Lord and is await to be rescued by a Hero" theme that I have read before,*cough* (though he does have a killer body for a virgin) *cough*

Virgin Kylo has an eight-pack and is shredded.

I don't think he's a virgin. He might not have acted like a classic tomcat like Han, but he does act with some swag in a couple of scenes. Plus, sex =/= emotions.

Another buttoned up and repressed character, complete with porno-music. Can we get one of these for Virgin!Kylo?

@AnneNeville Yes after April 5. Legal sith.

vaderito wrote:@AnneNeville Yes after April 5. Legal sith.

Absolutely. Only after April 5!!!

AnneNeville wrote:

vaderito wrote:@AnneNeville Yes after April 5. Legal sith.

Absolutely. Only after April 5!!!

BTW,as a Mod, what do you make of this thread's skyrocketing viewing count? Who's viewing?

Darth Dingleberry wrote:It's funny though, many people have said that Rey and Finn are obviously virgins as well because of the way they grew up. Rey, yes, I think so - but I'm less sure about Finn. He grew up in close quarters with other young people of both sexes, and he doesn't seem shy and awkward at all. The FO may be a controlling environment, but no controlling regime can control a massive number of hormonal youngsters growing up in barracks or a military academy or wherever it is they were brought up. Nor is it in the FO's best interests to keep all those young people frustrated.

Agreed. I doubt Finn is, considering his military background (just IMHO). I am going to choose to think Rey is, because it is a Disney movie and the "reality" of what life would have been like for an abandoned girl on a planet like that hardly bears contemplating. Though the novelization, if I recall @Ohtze's summaries, makes it pretty clear that at least Plutt has nasty designs on her, so . . .

Darth_Awakened wrote:Of course he is a virgin.
Kylo is not weak and foolish like his father.
I am just imagining the same poll for Han Solo in ANH (mwahahaha)

That is actually a fantastic supporting detail for Virgin!Kylo.

Sp Kylo Ren may br the Star Wars Space Opera version of the Tortured Virginial Hero. If Disney puts even a  PG-13 hint of this in Ep 8/9, I'll love them forever!
I can't express how great it is to see, in one of (if not the) biggest scifi action series of all cinema, so many of the classic tropes from the lowly Romance genre! Kick A** Heroine, Tortured/Virginial Hero - I mean, there are lists of titles for each of these.

Force22 wrote:I wish there was an in-between answer. Maybe he's had some experience, but it wasn't great, and he's sexually repressed regardless.

This is how I see him. Not a virgin but he's only had a couple of experiences in his youth and they weren't nearly as intense or powerful as what he instinctually knows he'd have with a certain girl he's probably had a vision of so he puts it on the back burner and places his focus on more important things.

AnnLouise wrote:Sp Kylo Ren may br the Star Wars Space Opera version of the Tortured Virginial Hero. If Disney puts even a  PG-13 hint of this in Ep 8/9, I'll love them forever!

Well, Snoke calls him "pure" in novelization so that's that.