Virgin!Kylo: Yea or Nay?

adamdrivershair wrote:Saw this on Tumblr:

Husband: That guy's bumper sticker says "Jedi in the streets, Sith in the sheets."

Me: But what would Sith in the streets, Jedi in the sheets be? "I'm a pretty bad person but I've never actually had sex"?

Husband: So Kylo Ren?

XD

@adamdrivershair

Your husband sounds rad.

A year and a half later, I still think "he dabbled", depending on what age he got sent to Uncle Luke's Bible Camp. Especially, if part of the reason he got sent away was (as seems to be rumored) him falling in with "the wrong crowd" and such.

Never doubted it, look at who his father is. Do think that Rey's probably the first woman to actually turn his head.

Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

I will always stand by the maxim, "In order to be a teacher, one must first know the subject."

MeadowofAshes wrote:I will always stand by the maxim, "In order to be a teacher, one must first know the subject."

@MeadowofAshes

LOL that quote just reminded me of this scene in Becoming Jane:

https://youtu.be/DiIgAES9zt0?t=1m13s

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

He thinks he knows how to flirt, but he's so terribly bad with women all that goes straight over his head. I mean, him saying "You still want to kill me", is basically him being shocked Rey isn't asking him to run away together that instant.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

Don't most men think they know how to flirt?

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

Don't most men think they know how to flirt?

@Tex

Right? And I'd say that a man's self-awareness of his ability to flirt has no correlation to his sexual experience (based on my own personal experience). I mean, being able to flirt might help a guy get laid, but being terrible at flirting doesn't automatically equal "virgin", either.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

Don't most men think they know how to flirt?

@Tex

Right?  And I'd say that a man's self-awareness of his ability to flirt has no correlation to his sexual experience (based on my own personal experience). I mean, being able to flirt might help a guy get laid, but being terrible at flirting doesn't automatically equal "virgin", either.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree, This is my experience as well. Some guys have personalities that give them that edge when flirting. They have a natural charm. Others fail no matter how hard they try.  Doesn't mean they haven't gotten laid before. Since Rey is such a strong independent girl she's throwing Kylo for a loop. His usual pick-up lines aren't working.

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

Don't most men think they know how to flirt?

@Tex

Right?  And I'd say that a man's self-awareness of his ability to flirt has no correlation to his sexual experience (based on my own personal experience). I mean, being able to flirt might help a guy get laid, but being terrible at flirting doesn't automatically equal "virgin", either.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree, This is my experience as well. Some guys have personalities that give them that edge when flirting. They have a natural charm. Others fail no matter how hard they try.  Doesn't mean they haven't gotten laid before. Since Rey is such a strong independent girl she's throwing Kylo for a loop. His usual pick-up lines aren't working.

@Tex

That's my read on that scene. He's clueless on the context of the situation, but when he unmasks for Rey (with that little smirk), it's almost like he expects her to swoon for him or something.

I just get the feeling that assuming he was at least in his teens when he got sent to Uncle Luke, Ben Solo probably got a decent amount of female attention in his youth.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Tex wrote:Ha, this topic was just on my mind. I'm in the "he's dabbled here and there" camp. I just can't see him being a virgin. He says and does to many suggestive things to make me think otherwise.

@Tex

If I'd had any doubt, the "We'll see" *wink* pretty much cemented it for me. At the very least, he thinks he knows how to flirt.

@ISeeAnIsland

Don't most men think they know how to flirt?

@Tex

Right?  And I'd say that a man's self-awareness of his ability to flirt has no correlation to his sexual experience (based on my own personal experience). I mean, being able to flirt might help a guy get laid, but being terrible at flirting doesn't automatically equal "virgin", either.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree, This is my experience as well. Some guys have personalities that give them that edge when flirting. They have a natural charm. Others fail no matter how hard they try.  Doesn't mean they haven't gotten laid before. Since Rey is such a strong independent girl she's throwing Kylo for a loop. His usual pick-up lines aren't working.

@Tex

That's my read on that scene.  He's clueless on the context of the situation, but when he unmasks for Rey (with that little smirk), it's almost like he expects her to swoon for him or something.  

I just get the feeling that assuming he was at least in his teens when he got sent to Uncle Luke, Ben Solo probably got a decent amount of female attention in his youth.

@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah, maybe years with FO just fucked him up completely, turning him into an unhealthy type of his personality, so he fails at flirting as well.
Perhaps he actually was quite charismatic before, it could serve as a comparison to how miserable and silly he is while being stuck in the job he hates. Because I feel like most of the fandom imagine him as Snape Number 2.

Welp in some of the deleted scenes for Empire Strikes Back, the hallway couple's fight argument that Han and Leia have, he tells her that he could "teach" her "how to be a woman." And let us not forget that there he also winks at her during a supposed to be all business moment after she's blown him off and not been impressed by his "captain of the Millenium Falcon, made the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs sometimes I even impress myself" hot air. Kid learned his peacocking from somewhere. Though making Ben a weird emo DS who sucks as a bad guy is pretty brilliant IMO versus what you'd expect of having Han's son be a carbon copy character if the "it's a re-hash" arguments were completely true. Also works as a comment on literally trying to be your own man when there are father-son tensions (which again, the bridge scene was written by Kasdan and his son and the name was suggested by HF as a tribute to his oldest son).

Speaking of daddy issues. Anyone have thoughts on how Ben/Kylo views his parent’s relationship? I would think that would affect the way he approaches women and be a factor in how he would even go about having a relationship with Rey.

Tex wrote:Speaking of daddy issues. Anyone have thoughts on how Ben/Kylo views his parent’s relationship? I would think that would affect the way he approaches women and be a factor in how he would even go about having a relationship with Rey.

@Tex

That's gonna be fodder for whatever future angsty YA novel and comic books they have planned for the character. Though @ISeeanIsland had a pretty classic response to the question of which parent gave him The Talk.

I don't think Ben Solo got any action, but Kylo has. Several years as a high ranking member in an evil organization?  Come on    "I can show you the ways of the Force," etc.
His haughtiness in the interrogation scene suggests he expects Rey to find him irresistible. I also get the sense that, since he's seen her in visions, he might suspect she's seen him before too, and when he takes of the helmet he's like, "Am I the man of your dreams, or what?" 

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I don't think Ben Solo got any action, but Kylo has. Several years as a high ranking member in an evil organization?  Come on    "I can show you the ways of the Force," etc.
His haughtiness in the interrogation scene suggests he expects Rey to find him irresistible. I also get the sense that, since he's seen her in visions, he might suspect she's seen him before too, and when he takes of the helmet he's like, "Am I the man of your dreams, or what?" 

@Cowgirlsamurai

My original headcanon was similar to yours--in fact, at one point, I'd joked that there were probably KoR groupies throwing themselves at Kylo & co. in some parts of the galaxy...but I was convinced otherwise, given how covered up Kylo keeps himself and how isolated Snoke seems to want to keep him.

HOWEVER, I do think you're onto something with the unmasking/possibility of shared visions. Knowing that Rey's vision included some flashes of the future, I wonder if Kylo's vision(s) included flashes of a future where he and Rey were a couple...or at least allies, hence the smug unmasking, the "you still want to kill me?" "you, a scavenger?", etc.

Tex wrote:Speaking of daddy issues. Anyone have thoughts on how Ben/Kylo views his parent’s relationship? I would think that would affect the way he approaches women and be a factor in how he would even go about having a relationship with Rey.

@Tex

We know next to nothing about Ben's childhood but I've always imagined him being close to his mother as a boy (because they have the force and she probably did most of the parenting). If Han was away for extended periods, I could see young Ben being jealous of his father taking up his mother's time when he came home. He probably craved his father's attention, love and approval up until a certain point. But if Han kept failing to rise to the occasion as a father, Ben likely focused on his mother. If Han and Leia's marriage remained as passionate and tempestuous as their courtship, Ben may have felt uneasy living in such an environment when he likely needed stability and security.

As for what it might mean for Kylo/Ben and Rey, I guess that depends just how much like Han he really is. I can't see him wanting to spend significant periods of time away from her, though. Whereas Han and Leia seemed mostly o.k with living separate lives, I see Ben and Rey being more co-dependent, even though they've been forced into fending for themselves. As both of them seem desperately lonely when we meet them in TFA, I can't say that either of them relishes it. In the future, I couldn't see them choosing to be alone when they could be with each other.

I still think Kylo/Ben is a virgin, but I'm prepared for that headcanon to be crushed, especially if Reylo doesn't happen and we get some long lost love story or such.

Being a DS celibate warrior monk type seems about as far as one can go in repudiating ones' 'foolish and weak' father who makes his way through the life smooth talking/charming his way out of situations. And Han was likely a sweet talker and charmer prior to meeting Leia, seeing as how he was originally supposed to be introduced with a "one in every port" type situation. Probably confused him that Leia wasn't so eager to drop her panties versus the likely reception he got from his usual circles about the Kessel Run feat (you know a lifetime married to him, Leia was probably "yes, dear" every time he found a way to bring that up in conversation). Gotta guess Ben went in the opposite direction with going all Knights of Ren. At least until he stomps into the forest in Takodana and has somebody start shooting at him.

3. Han Solo had a lady friend.

Cut footage from A New Hope revealed that Han Solo had a girlfriend — or at least someone he was flirting with. The scene between Jenny (played by Jenny Cresswell) didn’t make it into the final edit, but you can still spot the character in the cantina. She’s speaking to a Rodian. You can watch the cut scene in the extra features on the Star Wars: The Complete Saga Blu-ray.

snufkin wrote:Being a DS celibate warrior monk type seems about as far as one can go in repudiating ones' 'foolish and weak' father who makes his way through the life smooth talking/charming his way out of situations. And Han was likely a sweet talker and charmer prior to meeting Leia, seeing as how he was originally supposed to be introduced with a "one in every port" type situation. Probably confused him that Leia wasn't so eager to drop her panties versus the likely reception he got from his usual circles about the Kessel Run feat (you know a lifetime married to him, Leia was probably "yes, dear" every time he found a way to bring that up in conversation). Gotta guess Ben went in the opposite direction with going all Knights of Ren. At least until he stomps into the forest in Takodana and has somebody start shooting at him.

3. Han Solo had a lady friend.

Cut footage from A New Hope revealed that Han Solo had a girlfriend — or at least someone he was flirting with. The scene between Jenny (played by Jenny Cresswell) didn’t make it into the final edit, but you can still spot the character in the cantina. She’s speaking to a Rodian. You can watch the cut scene in the extra features on the Star Wars: The Complete Saga Blu-ray.

@snufkin

He'd be like an Alex P. Keaton rebelling against his former-hippie parents by becoming a Republican.

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:HOWEVER, I do think you're onto something with the unmasking/possibility of shared visions. Knowing that Rey's vision included some flashes of the future, I wonder if Kylo's vision(s) included flashes of a future where he and Rey were a couple...or at least allies, hence the smug unmasking, the "you still want to kill me?" "you, a scavenger?", etc.

I do love the idea that they’ve had visions of each other. What @Cowgirlsamurai said about “Am I the man of your dreams, or what?” Perhaps he was trying to get a reaction out of her? Other than the obvious I’m not a creature, but a young handsome man. Maybe he was trying to see if she would recognize him? IDK we’re all probably thinking about this a lot deeper than the filmmakers did lol. Based off all the recent information it seems like there are quite a few things being made up as they go along.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:As for what it might mean for Kylo/Ben and Rey, I guess that depends just how much like Han he really is. I can't see him wanting to spend significant periods of time away from her, though. Whereas Han and Leia seemed mostly o.k with living separate lives, I see Ben and Rey being more co-dependent, even though they've been forced into fending for themselves. As both of them seem desperately lonely when we meet them in TFA, I can't say that either of them relishes it. In the future, I couldn't see them choosing to be alone when they could be with each other.

This seems pretty accurate to me. I would think seeing his father running off all the time would have left him longing for a relationship that was more stable. Especially, like you said, if Han was around and it caused things to get tempestuous. Seeing as he’s so devoted to Snoke and his cause I imagine the same goes for how he would handle other important things in his life, like a romantic relationship.

snufkin wrote:Being a DS celibate warrior monk type seems about as far as one can go in repudiating ones' 'foolish and weak' father who makes his way through the life smooth talking/charming his way out of situations.

As for being a devoted monk type. It’s very possible in reference to the “weak and foolish” line. With Kylo’s attempts to destroy any vestiges of his father in him, being a righteous celibate knight would help further him from that persona. Whether he’s dabbled or is a virgin in the end it doesn’t really matter. Seeing as Rey and Kylo popped it each other’s Force cherries.

Tex wrote:Whether he’s dabbled or is a virgin in the end it doesn’t really matter.

Yes! I don't understand the fascination with virgins, lol. It's funny to speculate about though 

All this stuff about Han in the original version, where he murders Greedo and has his "one in every port" moment of his lady friend sitting in his lap and then throwing a drink in his face when he calls her by another woman's name makes me wonder how much of an a**hole he'll allowed to be in the Young Han Solo movie. 'Cause it's clear from the original version he's not just meant to be this Steve McQueen type, but a complete and total jerk who lies to people he owes money to, is sleeping around and lying about that to different women, extorts Obi-Wan and Leia, and runs off after being asked to help. It makes sense that Leia says "he's not a nice man" and keeps him at arm's length once she realizes that he's interested in her and that she's attracted back to him. So we have the kid going in the opposite direction and likely also thinking he's being chivalrous to Rey by 'saving' her from those lowlifes in the Resistance and offering to teach her how to use her Force powers.

@Tex - ha, yes they did have that special moment in the Force, first for both of them!

@Cowgirlsamurai - the mods and longer old timers could probably explain better how the topic came up. Maybe back when people assumed that he disappeared when he was still a teenager, like 14-15 years old? Or simply as a "how much real world experience did he have before going full DS crusader" with talking to girls as one of the benchmarks.