The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

@SoloSideCousin This is the same writer who posted on Twitter about people being unhappy their theories didn't pan out when he spent 2.5 years pushing Rey Kenobi. And just did a trailer speculation podcast where the group all said they couldn't see how Rey could get past what happened between Ben and Han? At the end of the day, a lot of high profile entertainment journalists who get special access for promotions are fans like the rest of us. And that doesn't necessarily grant them any great insights, just that they bring their own fan biases to the table. I love J. Kenji-Lopez Alt's articles for Food Lab (and he's had AD on his podcast), but the man also wrote articles about how Rey had to be the Emperor's long lost granddaughter based on how she fights. So intelligence is no great shield against what people want as a fan in driving the narrative they present to their readers.

Also if you really want to have your brain explode in terms of seemingly intelligent people getting it wrong, there's an essay right now on NPR's website. Written by a theoretical physicist and university professor in which he discusses how Rey and Kylo could be long lost twins/relatives.

IoJovi wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin

Take comfort in the fact that the Reylo aspect of the film is getting rave reviews- the majority of those out there absolutely DO get it, and understand what’s being laid out.  Out of the stuff I’ve seen panned, the Resistance plot and the convolutedness of it are what’s not going over as smoothly as they’d hoped.  

The fact that it’s said JJ plans to go bold in IX gives me comfort.

@IoJovi

I do think that KK and JJ will stay the course.  I really believe that she wants create a whole new niche in the market ... a creatively challenging, high box office film niche.  It absolutely can be done, given the love of intensely complex television.  It may just be a bumpy ride.  Frankly, they were probably expecting this.  When they have Han Solo get stabbed and Luke thinking about killing his teenage nephew in his sleep, people are going to get mad.  I think the message from LF is going to be "take it or leave it."

snufkin wrote:@SoloSideCousin This is the same writer who posted on Twitter about people being unhappy their theories didn't pan out when he spent 2.5 years pushing Rey Kenobi. And just did a trailer speculation podcast where the group all said they couldn't see how Rey could get past what happened between Ben and Han? At the end of the day, a lot of high profile entertainment journalists who get special access for promotions are fans like the rest of us. And that doesn't necessarily grant them any great insights, just that they bring their own fan biases to the table. I love J. Kenji-Lopez Alt's articles for Food Lab (and he's had AD on his podcast), but the man also wrote articles about how Rey had to be the Emperor's long lost granddaughter based on how she fights. So intelligence is no great shield against what people want as a fan in driving the narrative they present to their readers.

Also if you really want to have your brain explode in terms of seemingly intelligent people getting it wrong, there's an essay right now on NPR's website. Written by a theoretical physicist and university professor in which he discusses how Rey and Kylo could be long lost twins/relatives.

@snufkin

Wow ... just ... WOW.  You know that there really must be a significant facial/emotional recognition deficiency in a segment of the population.  These dudes need to watch the old Tim Roth show, Lie to Me.

@SoloSideCousin I can only speak from my own experience, but I pay attention a lot to context (like eyes and body language) in communicating with people and trying to get a read. Both from my language/ethnography training in Peace Corps and just having an actor in the family who would point these things out to me when we were watching a TV commercial. Like even as an adult, watch Empire Strikes Back and notice for the first time everything Harrison Ford does with his eyes in the Hoth portion of the film when Han is around Leia. Words and body language say one thing, but eyes say another. Even when they're trying to escape and she's sniping at him, his eyes go back and forth so you know how nervous he is about getting that entire group out of there before they're captured/killed.

So y'know, people don't always pay attention to that type of thing. Even people who are supposedly in the business as journalists. Breznican seems like a nice guy and his wife is an archivist for Disney, so that likely grants him special access. But he's no more a fanboy than the dudes hanging out on Reddit. And he's a fanboy who promoted a theory which got blown to Hell after 2.5 years of promoting it via social media, on podcasts, and in the publication he writes for. He has a business relationship but he doesn't necessarily have any deeper insights into the creative process or themes LF is working through with these characters.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF clout to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin


Ugh, this.

As for Breznican, he's entitled to his opinion and all, but he chastises an anti for basically putting the Rey and Kylo dynamic into RL terms and then proceeds do the same himself....seriously, he sees Rey as like a preacher who thinks she can save the soul of a death-row inmate?    I'm confident that was NOT what Rian was going for AT ALL. Good grief.

As for the shirtless scene, just because Rey doesn't express overt attraction does not mean theres not a subtext there in her seeing him in a more intimate and human position. Do these things need to be that spelled out? What about nuance and subtext? It's uncomfortable because he's a man and he's shirtless. It's an intimate position. She most definitely was not acting like he was her roommate. Lol, wut? Another off-base RL scenario.

I spoke with my cousin who is in town for Christmas and she told me she and her family saw the movie yesterday and they enjoyed it and thought it was full of surprises. They're fairly GA so they didn't really have any expectations, but they knew about the prevailing theory of Rey Skywalker.

Having too many expectations gets in the way, I think.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Lol, dumbass interpretations are irrelevant. What matters is what Rian was going for. Romantic drama. Their relationship is tinged with mutual attraction. It's a romantic dynamic. Rian confirmed this. End of story.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you for reminding me of this. I was just about to come here and post the Breznican quote. What exactly does he think Luke is barging in on??? I guess Breznican never snuck in to a crush’s room before, lol

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF clout to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin


Ugh, this.

As for Breznican, he's entitled to his opinion and all, but he chastises an anti for basically putting the Rey and Kylo dynamic into RL terms and then proceeds do the same himself....seriously, he sees Rey as like a preacher who thinks she can save the soul of a death-row inmate?    I'm confident that was NOT what Rian was going for AT ALL. Good grief.

As for the shirtless scene, just because Rey doesn't express overt attraction does not mean theres not a subtext there in her seeing him in a more intimate and human position. Do these things need to be that spelled out? What about nuance and subtext? It's uncomfortable because he's a man and he's shirtless. It's an intimate position. She most definitely was not acting like he was her roommate. Lol, wut? Another off-base RL scenario.

I spoke with my cousin who is in town for Christmas and she told me she and her family saw the movie yesterday and they enjoyed it and thought it was full of surprises. They're fairly GA so they didn't really have any expectations, but they knew about the prevailing theory of Rey Skywalker.

Having too many expectations gets in the way, I think.

@Kessel

I know!!! Does she need to lick her lips and say "Oh baby", like some 80s movie, for him to get a clue as to what was going on?!!! I guess so, and that is freaking ridiculous. How would some of these people have gotten through watching the movies of the 30s to the 50s, where a lot of sexual stuff had to go completely subtextual, so much so that married people couldn't sleep in the same bed? People have been too spoon-fed in recent years. I am so glad that KK and JJ and RJ are actually trying to make real films ... you know like works of art up for interpretation ... again for a mass audience.

I read this because I have a lot of love for TFA, even though I like TLJ better, but it’s one of the worse takes on TLJ I’ve read so far. The woman who wrote it spends ages going on about how Rey is poorly served in this movie and then she reduces Rose to a cockblocker for her precious StormPilot, ugh! http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-better-than-the-last-jedi/

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF clout to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin


Ugh, this.

As for Breznican, he's entitled to his opinion and all, but he chastises an anti for basically putting the Rey and Kylo dynamic into RL terms and then proceeds do the same himself....seriously, he sees Rey as like a preacher who thinks she can save the soul of a death-row inmate?    I'm confident that was NOT what Rian was going for AT ALL. Good grief.

As for the shirtless scene, just because Rey doesn't express overt attraction does not mean theres not a subtext there in her seeing him in a more intimate and human position. Do these things need to be that spelled out? What about nuance and subtext? It's uncomfortable because he's a man and he's shirtless. It's an intimate position. She most definitely was not acting like he was her roommate. Lol, wut? Another off-base RL scenario.

I spoke with my cousin who is in town for Christmas and she told me she and her family saw the movie yesterday and they enjoyed it and thought it was full of surprises. They're fairly GA so they didn't really have any expectations, but they knew about the prevailing theory of Rey Skywalker.

Having too many expectations gets in the way, I think.

@Kessel

I know!!! Does she need to lick her lips and say "Oh baby", like some 80s movie, for him to get a clue as to what was going on?!!! I guess so, and that is freaking ridiculous. How would some of these people have gotten through watching the movies of the 30s to the 50s, where a lot of sexual stuff had to go completely subtextual, so much so that married people couldn't sleep in the same bed? People have been too spoon-fed in recent years. I am so glad that KK and JJ and RJ are actually trying to make real films ... you know like works of art up for interpretation ... again for a mass audience.

@SoloSideCousin

EXACTLY!

It's actually really sad, didn't Adam say that Rian was trusting the audience with nuance (or something to that effect)? Apparently, that was expecting too much of them.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF clout to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin


Ugh, this.

As for Breznican, he's entitled to his opinion and all, but he chastises an anti for basically putting the Rey and Kylo dynamic into RL terms and then proceeds do the same himself....seriously, he sees Rey as like a preacher who thinks she can save the soul of a death-row inmate?    I'm confident that was NOT what Rian was going for AT ALL. Good grief.

As for the shirtless scene, just because Rey doesn't express overt attraction does not mean theres not a subtext there in her seeing him in a more intimate and human position. Do these things need to be that spelled out? What about nuance and subtext? It's uncomfortable because he's a man and he's shirtless. It's an intimate position. She most definitely was not acting like he was her roommate. Lol, wut? Another off-base RL scenario.

I spoke with my cousin who is in town for Christmas and she told me she and her family saw the movie yesterday and they enjoyed it and thought it was full of surprises. They're fairly GA so they didn't really have any expectations, but they knew about the prevailing theory of Rey Skywalker.

Having too many expectations gets in the way, I think.

@Kessel

I know!!! Does she need to lick her lips and say "Oh baby", like some 80s movie, for him to get a clue as to what was going on?!!! I guess so, and that is freaking ridiculous.  How would some of these people have gotten through watching the movies of the 30s to the 50s, where a lot of sexual stuff had to go completely subtextual, so much so that married people couldn't sleep in the same bed? People have been too spoon-fed in recent years.  I am so glad that KK and JJ and RJ are actually trying to make real films ... you know like works of art up for interpretation ... again for a mass audience.

@SoloSideCousin

KrazyForKylo wrote:I read this because I have a lot of love for TFA, even though I like TLJ better, but it’s one of the worse takes on TLJ I’ve read so far. The woman who wrote it spends ages going on about how Rey is poorly served in this movie and then she reduces Rose to a cockblocker for her precious StormPilot, ugh! http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-better-than-the-last-jedi/

@KrazyForKylo

She says that because she wants no romance for Rey period. She wrote a whole other "think piece" on it She's  one of those people who wants Rey to be a cardboard Kick A** Girl Jedi (tm) who doesn't need a guy.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:Given the ‘disparity’ in critics rating and what’s been going down on a certain site Anthony Breznican felt the need to write this article : The Last Jedi: A Force push against the backlash

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-reaction/

EDIT I’m seeing TLJ with my kids this weekend (3rd time for me) and I’d really like to mindful of everything that’s been discussed here over the last 9 days

@MrsWindu

This article makes a lot of good points ... but OMG, once again total cluelessness on Reylo! She wasn't attracted during the Shirtless Scene????????? If she wasn't attracted she wouldn't care if he was shirtless!!!!!!! Even in the half-way intelligent the cluelessness has no bounds.

All this inane backlash is annoying because it will just encourage other studios without the Disney/LF to make safe, bland products. TLJ is challenging.  People should like that even if they don't care for the particular method of challenge. Without this kind of challenge, Hollywood will die a boring death of Michael Bay films.

@SoloSideCousin

Take comfort in the fact that the Reylo aspect of the film is getting rave reviews- the majority of those out there absolutely DO get it, and understand what’s being laid out.  Out of the stuff I’ve seen panned, the Resistance plot and the convolutedness of it are what’s not going over as smoothly as they’d hoped.  

The fact that it’s said JJ plans to go bold in IX gives me comfort.

@IoJovi

I do think that KK and JJ will stay the course.  I really believe that she wants create a whole new niche in the market ... a creatively challenging, high box office film niche.  It absolutely can be done, given the love of intensely complex television.  It may just be a bumpy ride.  Frankly, they were probably expecting this.  When they have Han Solo get stabbed and Luke thinking about killing his teenage nephew in his sleep, people are going to get mad.  I think the message from LF is going to be "take it or leave it."

@SoloSideCousin

Right--I can't remember the guy's name, but there was a media person who, several weeks before TLJ came out, was asked about the expected perception, and he'd replied that LF was "over the moon" with TLJ, but that they expected it to be a very divisive film.

How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

ZioRen wrote:How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

@ZioRen

That, and the high-waisted pants aren't helping.  I know a few people who saw it as a comedy scene because of the pants, as ridiculous as that sounds. Like I've heard someone make a "Kylo Ren wears grandpa pants!" crack.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

ZioRen wrote:How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

@ZioRen

That, and the high-waisted pants aren't helping.  I know a few people who saw it as a comedy scene because of the pants, as ridiculous as that sounds. Like I've heard someone make a "Kylo Ren wears grandpa pants!" crack.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'll admit that the pants were an odd and unflattering choice, but still. Sheesh, people!

ZioRen wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

ZioRen wrote:How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

@ZioRen

That, and the high-waisted pants aren't helping.  I know a few people who saw it as a comedy scene because of the pants, as ridiculous as that sounds. Like I've heard someone make a "Kylo Ren wears grandpa pants!" crack.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'll admit that the pants were an odd and unflattering choice, but still. Sheesh, people!

@ZioRen

Yeah, the choice of pants will always be a mystery that will baffle me, but the point of the scene still stands. It does not lose any of its significance because of the pants.

Perhaps some of these people were left uncomfortable with the implications...laughing at something distracts from and relieves discomfort.

Kessel wrote:

KrazyForKylo wrote:I read this because I have a lot of love for TFA, even though I like TLJ better, but it’s one of the worse takes on TLJ I’ve read so far. The woman who wrote it spends ages going on about how Rey is poorly served in this movie and then she reduces Rose to a cockblocker for her precious StormPilot, ugh! http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-better-than-the-last-jedi/

@KrazyForKylo

She says that because she wants no romance for Rey period. She wrote a whole other "think piece" on it She's  one of those people who wants Rey to be a cardboard Kick A** Girl Jedi (tm) who doesn't need a guy.

@Kessel

Ah yes, now you mention it I do recall her “think piece” on that subject. She could have made some decent points here but she just comes off as bitter that she didn’t get what she wanted.

It is heartening to see so much support for Reylo in the mainstream. I’ve seen a few pieces bemoaning Rey’s role in TLJ, though. This in particular has been posted by some prominent female members of the Star Wars fandom https://medium.com/@donnamdickens/star-wars-the-last-jedi-fails-rey-on-every-level-ad67be95b18f

ZioRen wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

ZioRen wrote:How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

@ZioRen

That, and the high-waisted pants aren't helping.  I know a few people who saw it as a comedy scene because of the pants, as ridiculous as that sounds. Like I've heard someone make a "Kylo Ren wears grandpa pants!" crack.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'll admit that the pants were an odd and unflattering choice, but still. Sheesh, people!

@ZioRen

Holy heck next time I will read the entire darned article before posting (my excuse was I was sidetracked by a surprise Reylo fanfic update) I will enjoy and pay even more attention to the intimacies of said scene on third viewing tomorrow

I read somewhere that the high waist pants are typical of military uniforms. Can anyone confirm that Kylo’s wearing uniform pants? I was expecting to see something of the bowcaster wound.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I read somewhere that the high waist pants are typical of military uniforms. Can anyone confirm that Kylo’s wearing uniform pants? I was expecting to see something of the bowcaster wound.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I saw someone compare them to samurai pants (hakama?) which makes some sense.

@Cowgirlsamurai I've read it's part of the Kurosawa, samurai influence.

And the Medium piece, I get her point about how her issue is that women and PoC should have access to the Power/Old Boy's Club fantasy that's so prevalent in fiction and real life. Which, yes absolutely that's something which is so badly in play right now in our society and politics. However the reason why she didn't get what she wanted is that TLJ's message isn't about storming the citadels of privilege. Luke's whole speech to Rey in the Jedi Temple is a rebuke of the Old Boy's Club and a privileged bastion. That's the underlying theme, about breaking up the old system when it privileges a few and creating something new where anybody, even adorable little stable moppets or abandoned orphans from Jakku, can have the Force. That's the whole point of paralleling Rey with Ben, she's a harbinger of the new system and he's the product (and the fallout) of the old system. Even with the film, there's a very refreshing critique of the whole Chosen One narrative, which has actually gotten us into trouble in both pop culture and the real world with politics. You want a movement or somebody to inspire you? Don't wait around for somebody who's charismatic or a celebrity, do it your self? That's the message and a pretty goddamn great one. I'd also say there's a very interesting underlying religious theme informed by Protestantism (Luke turned out to be the John Luther of the Jedi to Obi-Wan's John the Baptist) about divinity not being in the hands of a privileged/educated elite but within people themselves and the communities they form. Why else the ending with Rey and Leia together with the line "We have all we need here." They're a congregation and new movement.

Kessel wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I read somewhere that the high waist pants are typical of military uniforms. Can anyone confirm that Kylo’s wearing uniform pants? I was expecting to see something of the bowcaster wound.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I saw someone compare them to samurai pants (hakama?) which makes some sense.

@Kessel

That’s interesting, because the high waist is the only thing in common with hakama... I’m looking at a picture of my kid wearing them in Japan last year. They have wide legs and the top tucks in to them. I wonder why Kylo needs high waist pants UNDER his tunic, lol. Important questions for Rian The most samurai looking outfit in the movie is Luke’s at the end. My favorite look of the whole movie.

Lol, people are suddenly scrutinizing GFFA clothing? I guess anything to give Kylo a negative spin!

You have to be really f****ing dense to not understand Rey and Kylo's dyynamic in this film. They touch fingers over firelight and later exchange many lingering states. SW is a family soap opera. I guess when it's a father and son it's easy to define, but people have blinders on when it comes to Rey and Kylo. It's not that deep, guys.

Wanting or expecting Rey to be a cardbboard action girl portrays a fundamental failure to understand the story and character. She craves companionship, belonging. And she'll find it.

I would honestly recommend posting things like this in Holocron from now on. Rian already confirmed what he was going for. It's over. Denialville will continue to be inhabited but its residents are either ignorant or lying to themselves. They can cry all they went about how it's platonic. JJ won't save them because he's making a sequel to Rian's film, which highlighted the continuation of an epic romance.

Remember that Reylo fan fiction article from The Atlantic? They’ve written a kind of follow up... https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-fan-fiction-that-predicted-a-major-last-jedi-storyline/548885/

Kessel wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

ZioRen wrote:How the HECK are people not getting the shirtless scene or reading it as disgust or disinterest? That whole thing is based on a very unsubtle and very obvious trope that anyone who has seen any kind of romance flick or teen drama would know and have seen before. I'm honestly baffled at people missing it. 

I swear it's just because Adam isn't conventionally attractive. I feel like if he was some supreme prettyboy, nobody would be missing the point of that scene.

@ZioRen

That, and the high-waisted pants aren't helping.  I know a few people who saw it as a comedy scene because of the pants, as ridiculous as that sounds. Like I've heard someone make a "Kylo Ren wears grandpa pants!" crack.

@ISeeAnIsland

I'll admit that the pants were an odd and unflattering choice, but still. Sheesh, people!

@ZioRen

Yeah, the choice of pants will always be a mystery that will baffle me, but the point of the scene still stands. It does not lose any of its significance because of the pants.

Perhaps some of these people were left uncomfortable with the implications...laughing at something distracts from and relieves discomfort.

As regards the high-waisted pants it did seem to me a strange choice. I wondered about it, and my guess is, it could be because of Kylo’s wound from Chewie’s bowcaster. As far as injuries go the one they wanted to show us is the scar on his face (which looks great, plus Rey gave it to him ). In this scene he needs to look attractive, and lower-waisted pants would show a big scar/mark from that wound, which would create confusion to us [audience] and Rey: are we supposed to see him as sexy, or feel empathy for him remembering he had been wounded? Since they were going for the 1st, they likely decided to cover the area with high-waisted pants. If he had lower-waisted pants and no scar from that injury people would say it is a continuity error and where is the mark from that wound? The smaller injury on his face did leave a scar despite medical treatment, and the bowcaster shot was not a just slash but torn apart a part of his lower abdomen .

That is the only explanation I can think of, and maybe it is completely baseless. Who knows.