Episode IX and Sequel Trilogy General Discussion

I hope this thread is ok to discuss the recent tweet aboutnthe TFA concept art? Here is my speculation

Under water wreckage of the death star, maybe Rey finds an artifact?


Vader’s snowy castle?

Hybrid anakin/vader

Todd Fisher was able to say what he could about Leia's Episode IX footage, stating he's "thrilled" about it. There are so many rumours flying about at the moment I’m eager to see how they pull this off

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/culture/story/todd-fisher-carries-continuing-legacy-lot-60049395

“There’s a lot of minutes of footage. I don’t mean just outtakes,” Todd Fisher said. “This is unused, new content that could be woven into the storyline. That’s what’s going to give everybody such a great kick. It’s going to look like it was meant to be. Like it was shot yesterday.”

“We’re not allowed to talk about the details of anything,” he added. “But we’re thrilled at what’s been done.”

MrsWindu wrote:Todd Fisher was able to say what he could about Leia's Episode IX footage, stating he's "thrilled" about it. There are so many rumours flying about at the moment I’m eager to see how they pull this off

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/culture/story/todd-fisher-carries-continuing-legacy-lot-60049395

“There’s a lot of minutes of footage. I don’t mean just outtakes,” Todd Fisher said. “This is unused, new content that could be woven into the storyline. That’s what’s going to give everybody such a great kick. It’s going to look like it was meant to be. Like it was shot yesterday.”

“We’re not allowed to talk about the details of anything,” he added. “But we’re thrilled at what’s been done.”

@MrsWindu
This gives me hope.

MrsWindu wrote:

“There’s a lot of minutes of footage. I don’t mean just outtakes,” Todd Fisher said. “This is unused, new content that could be woven into the storyline. That’s what’s going to give everybody such a great kick. It’s going to look like it was meant to be. Like it was shot yesterday.”

“We’re not allowed to talk about the details of anything,” he added. “But we’re thrilled at what’s been done.”

I hope this means that Leia is in it a lot more than most people are speculating and has a story arc. I'm so excited to see what they will be able to do.

To be honest I’ve not seen Naomi Ackie on screen. And we are guessing she’s part of the Rebellion and her character has some time with Finn. She turns up at about 3 mins but as expected says very little about Star Wars. I have a feeling we'll get a proper introduction at Celebration

John Campea can be interesting to watch/listen to at times about movies in general, except for his opinion about Ben Solo. lol BUT...this was not as frustrating to view/listen to as I initially presumed it would be due to the fact he says - allow the story to unfold.  He still gives his disclaimer that he doesn't  think it will happen, yet still give JJ/the story a chance.  

It's about 7 minutes long.

I have a theory about Leia in 9. I think she'll be the one who sends Rey off to find Ben, or maybe not find him, but to encourage her to believe in him again. There has to be footage that has her saying: There's still good in him, I know it.
I can see Poe finding out about the Force connection, freaking out, and demanding that Rey leave. Leia could make the calculation to support him publically but come to Rey before she leaves and having that discussion.
Pure speculation on my part based on the comments by Todd Fisher and the events of TFA and TLJ.

PalmettoBlue wrote:I have a theory about Leia in 9. I think she'll be the one who sends Rey off to find Ben, or maybe not find him, but to encourage her to believe in him again. There has to be footage that has her saying: There's still good in him, I know it.
.

@PalmettoBlue

@PalmettoBlue

You could be onto something. I’m sure I remember a few seconds of BTS footage in the Making Of TFA where Leia is talking to Han in what I can only suppose was a different take or longer scene that JJ filmed which happened at the resistance base. I’m wondering if that’s some of the footage that they’ll rehash somehow ?

@PalmettoBlue

One thing I hated about the last jedi is that Leia said her son is gone. I hope that in this last episode Leia will take the words she said, like: I thought he was gone, but it's not like that, I still feel it, the light is still there inside of him, help him Rey.
Rey is still convinced that there is some good in him and even now she is disappointed with Kylo, she still has hope.

Probably the wrong thread. For those who have better memories than me. Wasn’t there a massive 6 month gap between end of filming TLJ and the title being announced ? They obviously don’t have that luxury here. It could be imminent or everything will be revealed at Celebrations ? Please just a few more breadcrumbs JJ

@MrsWindu Yes, filming for TLJ ended on July 22, 2016 and the title was announced on January 23, 2017. But for TFA there was only a 3 day gap between the end of filming and the announcement of the title (November 3 and 6, 2014), so it's possible they will reveal the title for episode IX soon, now that filming wrapped. I really hope JJ will leave us some breadcrumbs instead of keeping everything for the Celebration.

@Forsythia TFA is airing on ABC on Sunday. Do they drop the title right after or the next day? Would seem an appropriate time period. If not, then Celebration.

Hi @Teo oswald @Casper -hope you don't mind I'l quote your comments from the spoilers thread here and respond..

Teo oswald wrote:@DeeBee

When I heard that JJ wanted to connect all the trilogies I thought, there will be a reference to the past but I noticed and certainly you too did, that even RJ has made references to the other trilogies.
the battle between Luke and Kylo resembles the battle between Vader and Obi, the Falcon that goes into the center of the planet is very similar to the asteroid scene, there are others.
If JJ says he wants to connect all the trilogies, he will have to insert iconic characters or will he make scenes from the other films?

Teo oswald wrote:

Casper wrote:If he wants to connect all the trilogies, he needs a Kenobi in this movie.  So far, the only reference to one (that the GA would recognize) is Ben Solo's first name.  We need something more than that to honor the Skywalker/Kenobi relationship.  Just my 2 cents.

@Casper

I agree, moreover the figure / the name of Obi has appeared in all the trilogies
if there is a skywalker there is also a Kenobi

@Teo oswald @Casper
I look forward to seeing how JJ will tell the story of how the nine movies all connect.. how exactly he will do this I'm not sure - I think there needs to be a careful balance between telling the story of the Sequel trilogy and tying up the skywalker saga. I hope both will be satisfyingly concluded in IX. I think there will be references to the other trilogies in IX for sure, but hopefully not too heavy handed, and done in service of the story and the characters. I don't need loads of easter eggs and clunky tie ins.

My thoughts such at the moment - Given the story of Anakin, his descendents, legacy, and the Jedi order are all central to the skywalker saga - I'm guessing this is how it will be tied together - culminating in the balance of the force, and a clear path forward for force users and the need to maintain the balance.
When Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force at the end of ROTJ, Luke was left on a quest to seek the truth of what needed to be his role as a Jedi moving forward - but in TLJ we learned he got it wrong (he was sincerely trying though).
With Balance at the end of IX, I'm guessing there will instead be a clear understanding of what the force needs to stay in balance, and what the Jedi's role needs to be moving forward - this makes the situation at the end of IX and end of VI different. I think Ben being the focal point of both the dark and the light is key. Luke never had that.. not that I fully understand it.. but hopefully IX is going to enlighten us! Kylo/Ben's struggle between light and dark seems to be at the heart of balance - like he's a walking metaphor for how balance of the force should be. Not all dark nor all light, a combination of the two - the dark is needed, but it shouldn't be master.

Hi Casper,  my view is - I don't think there has to be a direct Kenobi reference in IX, but if it ends up being part of the conclusion in IX I'll enjoy it and probably find it meaningful too! Kenobi is tied in with the role of Jedi moving forward and learning from the past.. that's enough for me. but heck, seeing Ewan McGregor again would be fantastic! [Especially if his first line is: Hello there!]

I would really love to see Anakin FG in IX. but I'm not attached to it either..

I'd love to hear how everyone thinks IX could tie back to the first two trilogies! What does everyone think?

@DeeBee


I really liked what you said and I fully agree.
Kylo / Ben is the heart of this trilogy, has within it a balance between light and darkness but he can not stabilize. Even Rey is a very important character in my opinion she will give him a hand to find that stability and be able to be at peace with himself and with all that goes with it.
I see Rey as a voice that whispers and accompanies Ben on his journey, a hot flame that he has lost but that the Force has given it back to him.
a partner worthy of him who understands him and who feels what he feels. in fact, the sentence: you are not alone - neather are you - summarize everything. these two understand each other and thanks to their connection will bring balance in the galaxy

I almost think the fundamental element... where it all went wrong and needs to be set right was, although generally more in tune with the Force than his peers, when Qui-Gon substituted his will (winning Anakin) for the Force’s (left to fate, Qui-Gon would have won Shme’s freedom not Anakin’s... which would have prevented Anakin being separated from his mother because she would have remained behind to work towards buying Anakin’s freedom).

Where the Jedi went wrong was in divorcing themselves from the cycle of life and death... the cycle of parents and children who in turn become parents (and learn to be parents from their parents). Instead they removed children from their parents before the children were even old enough to remember them and the children were discouraged from forming any attachments to others (including any children they might inadvertently produce via casual sex with people they weren’t attached to).

That ALMOST worked in the same sense that child soldiers almost works... separate and desensitize them early enough and you have yourself a cadre of functional sociopaths (I mean this in the clinical sense of the word... of being unable to connect with others at an emotional level) dedicated to fulfilling your agenda above all else. The Jedi just made the system self sustaining with the mature child soldiers recruiting and training the next generation for so long that no one even questioned WHY this was the approach used.

Where it fell apart was the moment they brought in a child old enough to have had an attachment to his mother. Who felt her loss and had learned to form attachments to others (one of the reasons the clones were extremely loyal to Anakin was he treated them like men and not organic droids). Essentially, they brought a non-sociopath into the system and tried to make him conform. Palpatine leveraged it, but a break was always going to come (though more likely as one like Dooku or Asohka who walked away from the Order) because Anakin was fundamentally incompatible with the Order.

The mistake made by Luke, Leia and Han was in perpetuating that cycle. Even though Luke didn’t have the traditional Jedi upbringing himself, he apparently came to the belief that going back to the Order’s immediate pre-Empire doctrines was the ideal; that his connections actually made him a flawed Jedi (instead of what he really was; the ideal Jedi; as Anakin would have been if he’d been allowed to grow up with his mother).

And that system might have limped along if Luke hadn’t made the same mistake... of bringing in a boy old enough to have attachments. Worse though because unlike Anakin who blamed the system for the loss of his mother... but still had the memory of a loving mother buried deep in his heart... Ben was, from his perspective, abandoned by his parents... giving him even less of a defense against the predator Snoke than Anakin had against Palpatine.

Based on everything established, all Ben wanted was to be with his mom and dad. He would have been absolutely fine just flying around the galaxy with Han. If he received Jedi training at all it should have been in his late teens or as an adult like Luke... at the point in his life when a young person is naturally seeking to establish themselves outside of their parents’ shadows. Heck, in an alternate universe he might have even met Rey during one Han’s trips to Jakku and as she became part of the family you’d see established the proper order of the Force... children learning from their parents and in turn passing what they learn on to their children.

The mistake was that when Leia started to sense the darkside in Ben she didn’t hold him close as a mother should... she sent him off to an “expert.” Han failed by not fighting hard enough to keep Ben from being shipped off and Luke failed by acting like a Jedi Master instead of Ben’s loving uncle. That left him easy prey for a monster to tell Ben that Ben WAS a monster too and the darkside was where he belonged. That if everyone was going to fear him anyway, why not embrace the power of the darkside?

So my hunch is that the way it all ties together is through reconciliation of mother and son and that’s why IX was originally to have been Leia’s film. Now they’re going to have to use unaired footage and probably Rey as an intermediary, but I still think that’s going to be the thread... the resolution of the Original Sin of Episode I via reunion of mother and son.

In essence... Act One (prequels) is the break of children from their parents. Act Two (original) is the restoration of the bond between father and child. Act Three (sequels) is the restoration of the bond between mother and child.

Well said Chris24601!

That will heal the "...vulnerable and vengeful child in a mask." - as starwars.com once said, yet they changed it - probably because it made Bendemption too obvious. lol

Moreover, it will be romantic selfless love - Reylo - that is another healing force for the ST because it was possessive selfish love that Palpatine used for Anakin's downfall. Plus, once the "vulnerable and vengeful child in a mask" is healed, Reylo will be healing for the "lonely scavenger in search of belonging" because Rey, although a survivor and quite kickass awesome, desires a family.

As Wayward Jedi indicated in his Reddit meta

"We return to that line about the lance from the legend of the Grail. The wound can only be healed by the lance that dealt it. That wound in the Skywalker story is the love for Padme. To fully heal, the wound must be closed by a fully realized love in the ST. This will connect with the idea of life is pain, love is pain, and learning to let go is a release, learning that your pain maybe gives way to new life and new possibilities."

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/5yvw3h/the_role_of_romantic_love_the_quest_for_the/

So I was watching The Dark Crystal after new leaks about Vader's helmet because now I'm sure that ST is basically The Dark Crystal and both Anakin's saber and Vader mask are "magical" objects and will play some kind of significant roles in the plot.

I decided to read about The Dark Crystal and discovered that they wanted to create a sequel.

In 2006, producer Genndy Tartakovsky (Dexter’s Laboratory, Samurai Jack, and Star Wars: Clone Wars) attempted to make a sequel to The Dark Crystal.

He even had David Odell retuning to write the screenplay based of previous concepts discussed during the original movie.

“[David Odell], who wrote this film with his wife, is the original writer of The Dark Crystal, and he had discussed this sequel concept with Jim [Henson]," Lisa Henson, Jim Henson’s daughter who was also producing, said. "They didn't get too far into it, but [Odell] had a pretty good memory of the basic bones of the sequel idea."

Unfortunately, the movie never got off the ground, but they did turn the unused script into a 12 issue comic book called The Power of the Dark Crystal.

I couldn't find a concrete information why they decided not to film this sequel.

Here's the plot of that story:

Set hundreds of years after the events of the first movie when the world has once again fallen into darkness, "Power of the Dark Crystal" follows the adventures of a mysterious girl made of fire who, together with a Gelfling outcast, steals a shard of the legendary Crystal in an attempt to reignite the dying sun that exists at the center of the planet

And here are art\storyboard pieces for the sequel:



The Inner Sun


The Gravitational Divide


Remember that leak about gravitation or how Holdo devided the ship while Rey and Kylo were fighting over saber...? Just saying...

Conversation moved from *another thread

Fire LF marketing! Bring on MCU marketing!



Redeem the Fallen resonates so much! For those who may not know, it's the wordplay on Avengers: Endgame tag Avenge the Fallen that depicts the living in color posters and the fallen in grey scale ones.

My point being, I think that Mystery Box will prevent IX from having a really resonant marketing, if leaked packaging art is anything to go by.

vaderito wrote:Fire LF marketing! Bring on MCU marketing!



Redeem the Fallen resonates so much! For those who may not know, it's the wordplay on Avengers: Endgame tag Avenge the Fallen that depicts the living in color posters and the fallen in grey scale ones.

My point being, I think that Mystery Box will prevent IX from having a really resonant marketing, if leaked packaging art is anything to go by.

@vaderito

YES!!

Herding cats comment, yet it is so fitting - My only complaint with the recent Endgame marketing....Goose should have one! Yet, it was awesome seeing Valkyrie.

special_cases wrote:So I was watching The Dark Crystal after new leaks about Vader's helmet because now I'm sure that ST is basically The Dark Crystal and both Anakin's saber and Vader mask are "magical" objects and will play some kind of significant roles in the plot.

I decided to read about The Dark Crystal and discovered that they wanted to create a sequel.

In 2006, producer Genndy Tartakovsky (Dexter’s Laboratory, Samurai Jack, and Star Wars: Clone Wars) attempted to make a sequel to The Dark Crystal.

He even had David Odell retuning to write the screenplay based of previous concepts discussed during the original movie.

“[David Odell], who wrote this film with his wife, is the original writer of The Dark Crystal, and he had discussed this sequel concept with Jim [Henson]," Lisa Henson, Jim Henson’s daughter who was also producing, said. "They didn't get too far into it, but [Odell] had a pretty good memory of the basic bones of the sequel idea."

Unfortunately, the movie never got off the ground, but they did turn the unused script into a 12 issue comic book called The Power of the Dark Crystal.

I couldn't find a concrete information why they decided not to film this sequel.

Here's the plot of that story:

Set hundreds of years after the events of the first movie when the world has once again fallen into darkness, "Power of the Dark Crystal" follows the adventures of a mysterious girl made of fire who, together with a Gelfling outcast, steals a shard of the legendary Crystal in an attempt to reignite the dying sun that exists at the center of the planet

And here are art\storyboard pieces for the sequel:



The Inner Sun


The Gravitational Divide


Remember that leak about gravitation or how Holdo devided the ship while Rey and Kylo were fighting over saber...? Just saying...

@special_cases

A new series is coming out soon on Netflix...Age of Resistance....and Mark Hamill is voicing some characters as well. ;-)

Riri wrote:I hope this thread is ok to discuss the recent tweet aboutnthe TFA concept art? Here is my speculation

Under water wreckage of the death star, maybe Rey finds an artifact?

This one is really interesting with the teaser for IX showing us Rey, Poe and Finn looking at the Death Star wreckage in the water:

So about artifacts, Palpatine, Vader and how it possible can be connected to TROS.

In Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 21: Fortress Vader Vader is trying to find how to bring dead back to life again and we know that it's something that Palp wanted too.

Momin eventually built a superweapon which had the power to destroy a city, Momin, however wanted to freeze the people in time during their moment of terror. As the Jedi intervened during Momin's attempt, he lost control of the energy he wielded and his physical body was destroyed, leaving only his mask with his consciousness inside. [So Palp could do the same in ROTJ and it's possible that he somehow placed himself in Vader's mask and we know who has the mask... ]

Many years later, Darth Sidious recovered Momin's mask from the Jedi Archive vault. After learning of Momin's story from the mask, Sidious gave it to Darth Vader as a gift for his journey to Mustafar, which Vader sought to make his personal stronghold. There, the mask killed Vader's Chief Imperial Architect, Colonel Alva Brenne, and possessed her aide, Lieutenant Roggo. As Vader examined the mask, it told him of Momin's past. Vader then allowed it to possess a Mustafarian and grant Momin's consciousness a body. Vader discussed a creation Momin had designed, and agreed to let him build it for him.

When Vader entered a portal created by Lord Momin he saw visions from his past and this is when he saw his mum and Palpatine. This is actually the moment when Momin is trying to resurrect himself.



Vader: Wait. One question. I know you opened the door. Did you lie to me about what lies beyond?
Momin: I did not. All things are possible through the Force. What you desire awaits you on the other side. But you will never pass through. The dark side would never allow it. You have been poorly taught about what the dark side is and why we must serve. Your master is either ignorant or hoarding knowledge.
Momin mentions Padme and Vader kills him.

Speculation: Palpatine used Vader's mask to preserve his consciousness and was manipulating Kylo and Snoke to some degree. Either he wants to posess Kylo's body or he wants Kylo to resurrect "Vader" to resurrect himself. (Snoke can be Palpatine's creation too but I'm too lazy to think about it a lot)

Rey is the first to understand the mask's influence on Kylo and her end goal will be to save Kylo from Palpatine's "dark spell" - to save the Galaxy from Palpatine's return. I'm sure it won't be executed like "Rey's mission is to save Kylo", it will be nuanced and Rey will try to stop Kylo brutally, just without intention to kill him.

special_cases wrote:

Momin eventually built a superweapon which had the power to destroy a city, Momin, however wanted to freeze the people in time during their moment of terror.

@special_cases

M'dude, you have the ability to freeze time and this is what you're doing with it? Momin, don't do; think!

Echoing with underwater theme and death Star 2 art from The Art of Star Wars The Force Awakens...can see concepts and ideas being shifted for TROS