Star Wars Episodes I-VII Viewing Party: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

vaderito wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

1. I do not know. Maybe an inconsistency of sort.
2. I have been always reading this scene as caring for his son. There is also...he is just a boy.

The evidence is in ROTS - the only person Vader cared for after he turned is Padme. The first thing he asks Palps when is already in armour is: Where is Padme? Then comes that idiotic: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
So, yes, if we looking from the dark side point of view: Vader s love to his family is definitely his main flaw (or virtue - light side point of view)

There is also one thing I noticed long time ago: The change in Vader s behavior in ESB. He is apparently much more nervous from the beginning, he kills all those admirals one by one, he starts to loose sith.
The problem is that we can not see his face - it just a mask.
Nor Yoda, nor Obi, and what is more important nor Palps have never been aware of this.
But you know who is aware: Snoke! And I think that is why he insisted on killing Han.

@Darth_Awakened

That's a great observation! he knew Luke was his son before Palp dropped the bombshell, hence suggesting his turning so fast. he knew moment would come when Palp would feel "the disturbance in the Fohse". He was nervous in ESB because he wanted to get to Luke before Palp.

@vaderito

Yes, Vader has become conflicted the moment he knew he had a son (apparently according to so-called new canon - I think it was a Vader comic or something. Boba Fett told Vader that the DeathStarslayer s name is Skywalker. And Vader already knew that pilot was strong in force.)

I don't know if Kylo is going to give Rey a bigger join-me-speech in VIII but I hope it's nothing like Vader's to Luke. cause Vader was using all tricks from Palpatine. trying to appeal to Luke's ego, promise glory, etc. Except that Luke's nothing like Anakin so it didn't work.

Also, Teacher!Kylo was perfect. he wanted to run away with her, Snoke, FO, Resistance be damn. It's different. It's fresh.

vaderito wrote:I don't know if Kylo is going to give Rey a bigger join-me-speech in VIII but I hope it's nothing like Vader's to Luke. cause Vader was using all tricks from Palpatine. trying to appeal to Luke's ego, promise glory, etc. Except that Luke's nothing like Anakin so it didn't work.

Also, Teacher!Kylo was perfect. he wanted to run away with her, Snoke, FO, Resistance be damn. It's different. It's fresh.

@vaderito

Run away with me, Rey, we'll only visit green planets and never a single one with sand, Force forbid!

For real, that's how it should happen.

Irina de France wrote:

Run away with me, Rey, we'll only visit green planets and never a single one with sand, Force forbid!

For real, that's how it should happen.

@Irina de France

maybe it will happen when Luke blows up the hut!

Interesting:

"Luke"
"Father?"
"Son."

Luke accepted Vader as a father so fast, man.

This movie is perfect and a total classic.

vaderito wrote:

Irina de France wrote:

Run away with me, Rey, we'll only visit green planets and never a single one with sand, Force forbid!

For real, that's how it should happen.

@Irina de France

maybe it will happen when Luke blows up the hut!

@vaderito

Luke: "HOW DARE YOU YOU USE THE SAND TRICK, BEN, THAT IS NOT FAIR"

Hating sand #justskywalkerthings

vaderito wrote:I don't know if Kylo is going to give Rey a bigger join-me-speech in VIII but I hope it's nothing like Vader's to Luke. cause Vader was using all tricks from Palpatine. trying to appeal to Luke's ego, promise glory, etc. Except that Luke's nothing like Anakin so it didn't work.

Also, Teacher!Kylo was perfect. he wanted to run away with her, Snoke, FO, Resistance be damn. It's different. It's fresh.

@vaderito

I do not think neither that we are going to have another "join me speech".
And we are yet to hear what was "Snoke s speech" to Kylo. I am not sure it was: "Join me..blah blah blah"

Irina de France wrote:  

Luke: "HOW DARE YOU YOU USE THE SAND TRICK, BEN, THAT IS NOT FAIR"

Hating sand #justskywalkerthings

@Irina de France



Wouldn't it be awesome if first thing that comes out of Luke's mouth in VIII is...more whining?  

@Darth_Awakened You're right. We are yet to learn what Creeper!Snoke did to Ben to get him into such mental state that he killed his father.

vaderito wrote:I don't know if Kylo is going to give Rey a bigger join-me-speech in VIII but I hope it's nothing like Vader's to Luke. cause Vader was using all tricks from Palpatine. trying to appeal to Luke's ego, promise glory, etc. Except that Luke's nothing like Anakin so it didn't work.

Also, Teacher!Kylo was perfect. he wanted to run away with her, Snoke, FO, Resistance be damn. It's different. It's fresh.

@vaderito

Observations FTW! I sort of thought something was going on with Han & Leia escaping Hoth being referenced in TFA, so you're completely right. What I did notice was the "there's been an awakening" talk between Kylo & Snoke being like Vader & the Emperor.  People talk about how TFA steals from the 4th episode, but it pretty clearly is also using the 3rd and especially the 5th. They already have some of the elements in play which took until the 5th in the OT.

snufkin wrote:

Observations FTW! I sort of thought something was going on with Han & Leia escaping Hoth being referenced in TFA, so you're completely right. What I did notice was the "there's been an awakening" talk between Kylo & Snoke being like Vader & the Emperor.  People talk about how TFA steals from the 4th episode, but it pretty clearly is also using the 3rd and especially the 5th. They already have some of the elements in play which took until the 5th in the OT.

@snufkin

Absolutely. Not to mention that Han Slaying was really more referencing ESB than ANH. A mix of both but not just one as people think. 4 is used for formula but most important mirroring is actually from 3 and 5.

Glad you thought of Hanleia on Hoth and Reylo on ESB. So I'm not crazy.

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:

Observations FTW! I sort of thought something was going on with Han & Leia escaping Hoth being referenced in TFA, so you're completely right. What I did notice was the "there's been an awakening" talk between Kylo & Snoke being like Vader & the Emperor.  People talk about how TFA steals from the 4th episode, but it pretty clearly is also using the 3rd and especially the 5th. They already have some of the elements in play which took until the 5th in the OT.

@snufkin

Absolutely. Not to mention that Han Slaying was really more referencing ESB than ANH. A mix of both but not just one as people think. 4 is used for formula but most important mirroring is actually from 3 and 5.

Glad you thought of Hanleia on Hoth and Reylo on ESB. So I'm not crazy.

@vaderito

When I was watching it again last weekend, it really struck me how they took both of the central plots for ESB of the Love Story and Chase between connected DS and LS user into one storyline in TFA and how brilliant that is. Also those Solo boys! Ice planet is blowing up and instead of getting the Hell out of Dodge, they're both chasing after a girl who's giving them Hell. Ben's not as different from his old man as Snoke has brainwashed him to believe.

Also Han's sacrifice, for sure Snoke thinks that will settle it (little referencing of ROtJ there), has no idea that there is another, stronger bond Ben's already forged with Rey. I wouldn't be surprised if the crawl text in the next movie references Vader's obsessive looking for Luke with KR obsessively looking for Rey, tricking most of the audience into thinking it's a typically good versus evil showdown with Rey losing a hand. Snoke's gonna tell him to either kill or turn Rey and ultimately, he won't be able to do either because of his feeeeeelings.

snufkin wrote:

When I was watching it again last weekend, it really struck me how they took both of the central plots for ESB of the Love Story and Chase between connected DS and LS user into one storyline in TFA and how brilliant that is. Also those Solo boys! Ice planet is blowing up and instead of getting the Hell out of Dodge, they're both chasing after a girl who's giving them Hell. Ben's not as different from his old man as Snoke has brainwashed him to believe.

Oh, wait, but weren't they referencing forehead kiss?

Also Han's sacrifice, for sure Snoke thinks that will settle it (little referencing of ROtJ there), has no idea that there is another, stronger bond Ben's already forged with Rey. I wouldn't be surprised if the crawl text in the next movie references Vader's obsessive looking for Luke with KR obsessively looking for Rey, tricking most of the audience into thinking it's a typically good versus evil showdown with Rey losing a hand.

@snufkin

Agreed. people expect ESB 2.0 but TFA already covered that ground.

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:

When I was watching it again last weekend, it really struck me how they took both of the central plots for ESB of the Love Story and Chase between connected DS and LS user into one storyline in TFA and how brilliant that is. Also those Solo boys! Ice planet is blowing up and instead of getting the Hell out of Dodge, they're both chasing after a girl who's giving them Hell. Ben's not as different from his old man as Snoke has brainwashed him to believe.

Oh, wait, but weren't they referencing forehead kiss?

Also Han's sacrifice, for sure Snoke thinks that will settle it (little referencing of ROtJ there), has no idea that there is another, stronger bond Ben's already forged with Rey. I wouldn't be surprised if the crawl text in the next movie references Vader's obsessive looking for Luke with KR obsessively looking for Rey, tricking most of the audience into thinking it's a typically good versus evil showdown with Rey losing a hand.

@snufkin

Agreed. people expect ESB 2.0 but TFA already covered that ground.

@vaderito

And Rey lives in a toppled AT-AT, that's on the site of a huge battle between the Rebels and Imperials, like the opening one in the ESB. They already laid it out in the first 20 minutes, but people thought it was just throwing in references for the sake of nostalgia.

Ah, yes forehead kiss. Maybe Finn's back getting sliced open is like Luke losing a hand?

TFA covered the whole OT. Not only ANH. It covered all three movies. Maybe not so much of ROTJ (beacuse of Ewoks catastrophe in the middle of the movie), but yet Takodana woods = Endor. (with sweet lil teddy bear Kylo ).

I am like totally sure that EP8 won t be ESB rehash - so, no "I am your father/sister/brother/cousin" moments.

@Darth_Awakened But surely "I am your boyfriend/perfect mate/future lover/future husband"?

vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened But surely "I am your boyfriend/perfect mate/future lover/future husband"?

@vaderito

ha ha ha
I just hope he is not going to say it in the vaderish way.
"Marry me and we rule the galaxy together.."

Darth_Awakened wrote:

vaderito wrote:@Darth_Awakened But surely "I am your boyfriend/perfect mate/future lover/future husband"?

@vaderito

ha ha ha
I just hope he is not going to say it in the vaderish way.
"Marry me and we rule the galaxy together.."

@Darth_Awakened

I wouldn't rule it out, considering that repeating of famous lines is a must. Maybe that's why Luke blows up the hut?

@vaderito & @Darth_Awakened


Rey's so low maintenance, she already blew off food (60 portions), intimidation (various people she fights off to protect BB-, and even power (you need a teacher). He has to go for an emotional hook like finding out what happened to her family, and he's gonna get in way too deep going that route. Or offering to find her family means he'll end up being her family (future husband a la Liz Lemon & Wesley Snipes).

snufkin wrote:@vaderito & @Darth_Awakened


Rey's so low maintenance, she already blew off food (60 portions), intimidation (various people she fights off to protect BB-, and even power (you need a teacher). He has to go for an emotional hook like finding out what happened to her family, and he's gonna get in way too deep going that route. Or offering to find her family means he'll end up being her family (future husband a la Liz Lemon & Wesley Snipes).

@snufkin

Maybe he will? Luke tries to stop them. from what? Talking? or doing something together?

snufkin wrote:@vaderito & @Darth_Awakened


Rey's so low maintenance, she already blew off food (60 portions), intimidation (various people she fights off to protect BB-, and even power (you need a teacher). He has to go for an emotional hook like finding out what happened to her family, and he's gonna get in way too deep going that route. Or offering to find her family means he'll end up being her family (future husband a la Liz Lemon & Wesley Snipes).

@snufkin & @vaderito

I agree...Rey s temptation is likely to be in some connection of seeking her own belongings.
That s her main flaw, let s say it that way. She is desperate of finding something/somebody/family who won t leave her.
He found a friend in Finn, that s for sure.
And she went to Luke - with pretty much high hopes. Somehow I think she s gonna be disappointed what she she will find on Anch-to.
And then comes Kylo..... and Luke blows up a hut

@vaderito, probably both! You know those two are gonna start hooking up in the Force again the moment they get back together. If they're saying being FS is a genetic trait, then he'll start telling her that she has to figure out who her relatives were/are. And "I have access to the Imperial Archives" = his idea of a hot date.

Another detail from ESB, the whole way the escape from Echo Base is choreographed with the dialogue, Han dragging her out of there after she yells at him (dude, leave her and GTFO would be my advice), running to the MF with Chewie anxiously waiting, and the whole booting up/hitting the MF while sweating bullets and getting harassed is brilliant.

yeah, Hanleia were never right for each other but that makes great romances great - big passion, going against better judgment, going against the world. Even antis deep down don't want to watch safe Finnrey sith. Which is why they spend so much time lurking and posting on Reylo sites.

Also @vaderito, forgot to agree with Han being the best pilot of the lot with being able to out maneuver and draw two star destroyers into almost crashing into each other. All the talk about Rey = Luke, if anything she's like him with being small and scrappy (or is it scruffy?).

So if it's "I am your future husband," my mind immediately goes to thinking their next meeting will be something along the lines of Liz Lemon and Wesley Snipes. Rey's not gonna be happy at first about being stuck with him, even if they are kind of perfect for each other (there is no greater reason for hating Twilight than it preventing Michael Sheen from returning to marry Liz in the last season).

snufkin wrote:@vaderito, probably both! You know those two are gonna start hooking up in the Force again the moment they get back together. If they're saying being FS is a genetic trait, then he'll start telling her that she has to figure out who her relatives were/are. And "I have access to the Imperial Archives" = his idea of a hot date.

Another detail from ESB, the whole way the escape from Echo Base is choreographed with the dialogue, Han dragging her out of there after she yells at him (dude, leave her and GTFO would be my advice), running to the MF with Chewie anxiously waiting, and the whole booting up/hitting the MF while sweating bullets and getting harassed is brilliant.

@snufkin

Yes, it is a fantastic sequence.
The whole game is on much higher level than in New Hope.
The best movie in the whole saga at least for me.

@vaderito

yeah, Hanleia were never right for each other but that makes great romances great - big passion, going against better judgment, going against the world. Even antis deep down don't want to watch safe Finnrey sith. Which is why they spend so much time lurking and posting on Reylo sites.

The main obstacle for Han and Leia were themselves and their characters - not better judgement, not world.

In the case of Reylo: everything is set-uped in reverse to Han and Leia - Their characters are much more similar. They are both very lonely, they are both geeky (let s chat about the droid), they both have some issues from the past..but if we speculate in the right direction their possible romance will be the one against better judgement and against the world.

ESB,

Not much to add, Han & Leia are everything! Swoon. 

But the part that was totally new for me, even though I have seen this movie 3000x, was CP30's line before the Kiss he says to Han,

"The power coupling on the negative axis has been polarized, I am afraid you will have to replace it!

After the Kiss

"Sir Sir I have isolated the reverse powerflux coupling"

Kasdan! You bloody genius!



But, I love the Yoda on Dagobah also, so much ST GL Philosophy and belief system being built here and Oz puppets the scene so beautifully...

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship

spacebaby45678 wrote:ESB,

Not much to add, Han & Leia are everything! Swoon. 

But the part that was totally new for me, even though I have seen this movie 3000x, was CP30's line before the Kiss he says to Han,

"The power coupling on the negative axis has been polarized, I am afraid you will have to replace it!

After the Kiss

"Sir Sir I have isolated the reverse powerflux coupling"

Kasdan! You bloody genius!

That's freakin fantastic!

But, I love the Yoda on Dagobah also, so much ST GL Philosophy and belief system being built here and Oz puppets the scene so beautifully...

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship

@spacebaby45678





There's never been a better depiction of bolded part of his line, or of the Force in general, than this. Reylo took it to the next level, very intrigued to see how they are going to top it.