Reylo and Female Empowerment

common...Han was always a jerk...a little..he is a scoundrel after all...but that´s why we love him...but yeah...he was a good guy underneath...
That´s why he is my favorite from OT...

Agreed...Poe is much better...but she might have fallen for Poe...he is to awesome....and then Ren would have to kill that one too....hahaha

I kind of like Poe´s and Finn´s interaction....I think they have much more chemistry than Finn and Rey, tbh...

@arcana

kylo is rey's peer, whether she likes that or not. i just find it epic that really, in this movie, they are the only ones who understand each other.

guardienne wrote:@arcana

kylo is rey's peer, whether she likes that or not. i just find it epic that really, in this movie, they are the only ones who understand each other.

@guardienne

hah...so true my friend...if only both of them could see that....but she will come around, I´m sure...

i think she totally will. when i discuss reylo, which i don't really, i keep coming back to this idea that they are really teh same person. i'm not sure she's 'alll light' i think she's got plenty darkness. at least i hope so.

he's such a deviant, though. how can i resist that?

And that´s what´s empowering about ReyLo...

oh why are you not a man!!!!

hahaha, sorry about that.

in another life, perhaps

I know this isn't regarding Reylo, but after watching the Rogue One trailer, all I can think about regarding Felicity Jones' character is "Really? Another bad-a** strong heroine with nothing else to her again? I'll reserve final judgement until I see the film but atm, those are the vibes I'm getting.

I thought "another blanda** strong heroine" but that's just me.

I mean, it's the same cliche used in guy movies (our hero is unconventional but super at everything he does, clashes with authorities but proves himself right) so tough chick ones won't be any different. And yes, most male heroes are blanda** too. For example, Finn.

vaderito wrote:I thought "another blanda** strong heroine" but thta's just me.

@vaderito

@purple ren

I agree with you for the most part, Finn is forgiven way too quickly. Is Rey naive? Lonely? I don't know.

spacebaby45678 wrote:@purple ren

I agree with you for the most part, Finn is forgiven way too quickly. Is Rey naive? Lonely? I don't know.

@spacebaby45678

I think that poor Rey is so happy to have a friend that she is willing to overlook the less desirable aspects of his personality and character. :/

Anyway, regardless of the reasons why, her approach with Finn shows that Rey has a big capacity for forgiveness. As those of us who have debated with Kylo Ren redemption-adverse fans know, not everyone believes in forgiveness and second chances. If Rey does, that's one more sign that Reylo can be a thing, imo.

Darth Rowan wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:@purple ren

I agree with you for the most part, Finn is forgiven way too quickly. Is Rey naive? Lonely? I don't know.

@spacebaby45678

I think that poor Rey is so happy to have a friend that she is willing to overlook the less desirable aspects of his personality and character. :/

Anyway, regardless of the reasons why, her approach with Finn shows that Rey has a big capacity for forgiveness. As those of us have debated with Kylo Ren redemption-adverse fans know, not everyone believes in forgiveness and second chances. If Rey does, that's one more sign that Reylo can be a thing, imo.

@Darth Rowan

Thing is, great heroes must have capacity to forgive/have compassion for those people that others (lessers) cannot. Luke is a great hero because he forgave/had compassion for Vader. Han is a great hero because he forgave/had compassion for Kylo. Having compassion for small time liar and a cute droid is nothing out of ordinary. It's no challenge. That does not a great hero make.

vaderito wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:@purple ren

I agree with you for the most part, Finn is forgiven way too quickly. Is Rey naive? Lonely? I don't know.

@spacebaby45678

I think that poor Rey is so happy to have a friend that she is willing to overlook the less desirable aspects of his personality and character. :/

Anyway, regardless of the reasons why, her approach with Finn shows that Rey has a big capacity for forgiveness. As those of us have debated with Kylo Ren redemption-adverse fans know, not everyone believes in forgiveness and second chances. If Rey does, that's one more sign that Reylo can be a thing, imo.

@Darth Rowan

Thing is, great heroes must have capacity to forgive/have compassion for those people that others (lessers) cannot. Luke is a great hero because he forgave/had compassion for Vader. Han is a great hero because he forgave/had compassion for Kylo. Having compassion for small time liar and a cute droid is nothing out of ordinary. It's no challenge. That does not a great hero make.

@vaderito

Eh. I don't think Rey is required to be forgiving of everyone from the start just because she is destined to be a great hero. Heroes are made, not born imo. I wouldn't begrudge her if she was a resentful brat in the first episode of the trilogy and then after undergoing development ended up forgiving/being compassionate towards everyone in the final episode. It wouldn't make her any less heroic or great in my eyes. Regardless. The fact remains that she is capable of great compassion, to her credit. I think on that we agree.

@Darth Rowan I meant in her development. It's a requirement for her to get there at some point. Naturally, she can't get there in TFA cause she already started. But to be a great hero, that's a requirement. At least in SW universe. That's really the main challenge, not how many limbs one chops.

vaderito wrote:@Darth Rowan I meant in her development. It's a requirement for her to get there at some point. Naturally, she can't get there in TFA cause she already started. But to be a great hero, that's a requirement. At least in SW universe. That's really the main challenge, not how many limbs one chops.

@vaderito

Agreed.

One of the things I don't see brought up too often is the fact that Rey is a gearhead and all-around problem solver. I know Leia and Padme had think-on-your-feet traits but I find it so refreshing that the new mechanical/technical character besides Chewie or the droids is Rey. It makes it all the more meaningful if she inherits the MF where Ben should have but failed.

Also agree fully on Jyn being awesome. I'm in love with her Imperial costume.

With the "everyone trusts everyone", I think some of it had to do with the overcompensation for the prequels, where the characters were one of the biggest complaints. So the filmmakers were determined to make the new heroes as charming and likeable as humanly possible, and have the old heroes the audience loves love the new characters, as well. Which then led to such unnecessary moments like Han remarking, “girl knows her stuff”, just in case we didn’t get how awesome and capable Rey is already.

The last time I saw a movie that was cheerleading its main character that hard was probably Jurassic World, where everything was about how insanely awesome Chris Pratt’s character is.

Saracene wrote:With the "everyone trusts everyone", I think some of it had to do with the overcompensation for the prequels, where the characters were one of the biggest complaints. So the filmmakers were determined to make the new heroes as charming and likeable as humanly possible, and have the old heroes the audience loves love the new characters, as well. Which then led to such unnecessary moments like Han remarking, “girl knows her stuff”, just in case we didn’t get how awesome and capable Rey is already.

The last time I saw a movie that was cheerleading its main character that hard was probably Jurassic World, where everything was about how insanely awesome Chris Pratt’s character is.

@Saracene

I noticed that in-universe character cheerleading in TFA too. There was also Han's line about Finn: "I like this guy!" It made it feel like they were telling us, "See, Han Solo likes Finn, you should too!"

True

OMG! Who's read this amazing meta about female characters? http://madlori.tumblr.com/post/51723411550/rebloggable-by-request-well-first-of-all

Someone please tweet that to Kathleen Kennedy!

one word: equals

AppleCrumble122 wrote:OMG! Who's read this amazing meta about female characters? http://madlori.tumblr.com/post/51723411550/rebloggable-by-request-well-first-of-all

Someone please tweet that to Kathleen Kennedy!

@AppleCrumble122

Yes to all of this! I am tired of this damaging unhealthy idea that female characters have to be unbreakable, flawless, never conflicted. That is boring af and not relatable, and just as dangerous as the helpless damsels of the past. So so hoping they are brave and willing to flesh Rey out into someone who is complicated, vulnerable and as conflicted as Kylo seems in TFA. These two souls are set up to complement each other but if Rey is not able to explore her darkness or struggle to come to terms with her abandonment and loneliness, it won't happen. The writers and the audience need to kick the pedestal out from under her, because that is what will make her an iconic character in the long run.

@BastilaBey

I know right. When a male character has flaws it viewed as giving him depth and nuance, and he is applauded when he overcomes them. It's total rubbish that female ones aren't put in the same light. Considered capable of having the same strength of will as their male counterparts. Truth is it's somewhat condescending, really.

BastilaBey wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:OMG! Who's read this amazing meta about female characters? http://madlori.tumblr.com/post/51723411550/rebloggable-by-request-well-first-of-all

Someone please tweet that to Kathleen Kennedy!

@AppleCrumble122

Yes to all of this! I am tired of this damaging unhealthy idea that female characters have to be unbreakable, flawless, never conflicted. That is boring af and not relatable, and just as dangerous as the helpless damsels of the past. So so hoping they are brave and willing to flesh Rey out into someone who is complicated, vulnerable and as conflicted as Kylo seems in TFA. These two souls are set up to complement each other but if Rey is not able to explore her darkness or struggle to come to terms with her abandonment and loneliness, it won't happen. The writers and the audience need to kick the pedestal out from under her, because that is what will make her an iconic character in the long run.

@BastilaBey

Marvel does great job with male characters in that regard. They are endearing because they can be silly, defeated, beaten, embarrassing, vulnerable, petty, childish on top of being a**-kickers. But female characters from MCU are boring as hell because they are your generic strong woman - dour, party pooper, smartest in the room, never endearing because they lack above mentioned qualities and moments given to male characters. In short, MCU female characters are poorly written because they are not characters. They are too busy being inspirational/models/message to be be characters. OTOH, there are no such drawbacks when writing male characters.

The reason why Rey's parentage upstaged Rey completely is Little Miss Perfect writing. They wanted an inspiration and they got it but inspiration won't't get people talk. Flaws will. Since there are no flaws, they talk about mystery which isn't part of characterization but allows them to inject interesting characters into conversation. So parentage talk is really discussing Luke, other candidate than Rey cause there isn't much to discuss (not to mention most interesting part of her characterization leads to Kylo and they want to forget about that).