The Last Jedi General Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

I just read this article (forgive me if it’s been posted already)  were Rian and Ram talk about their partnership since Brick and the logistics of filming TLJ. It echos what I’ve read in The Art of Book - this movie was  masssssive in terms of stages etc and some sets doubled up and were reused

https://www.screendaily.com/features/star-wars-the-last-jedi-creators-on-mark-hamills-doubts-carrie-fisher-and-their-trilogy/5125231.article

What did you see as the pitfalls as you embarked on this?
Rian: I wanted to avoid being boring [laughs]… For me, although this arguably made it more risky and dangerous as oppose to less, for me the thing I felt I needed to avoid was making the movie from a place of fear, and fear of how fans would react to it. Having been a Star Wars fan myself for my entire life, I know from first-hand experience how every fan has a different set of expectations from a Star Wars movie. I also know that telling a story you’re coming in with some dragon in the back of your head and some abstract notion of what people want and what they don’t and making them happy by giving them that, you’re going to freeze up and second-guess every decision you make and you’re going to make a crap movie. That’s the one thing that would disappoint everybody. The big thing for me to avoid was reacting out of fear of what people would think, and cutting yourself loose to take chances and go to the places that felt most interesting to me and felt vivid and alive and interesting that engaged these characters without fear.

We see Luke Skywalker riddled with doubt. Mark Hamill has said he had initial reservations over that. Why was this storyline important to you?
Rian: We don’t know much about Luke from The Force Awakens, but what we do know is pretty big. His friends are all fighting the good fight and he’s taken himself out of the fight and he’s exiled himself on an island. Knowing Luke as a hero growing up, I knew that he must think he’s doing the right thing by doing that; he must think it’s the best thing for his friends and for the galaxy that he’s taking himself out of the equation. Because he’s identified as the last Jedi in that means he’s taking the Jedi out of the equation. So that leads you down a path and the choices become fewer than you’d imagine. I had to walk down that path and figure out how to come up with why Luke was there and explain it and believe it and that led me to where he was at in the movie. There were no other options.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:What happens to the purple attendants in the throne room? I’m pretty sure they are there when Ren escorts her in, but disappear later on...

@Cowgirlsamurai

Keeping quiet, if they know what's good for them... pretending they didn't see anything... going about their business... they most certainly did not see Kylo Ren kill the Supreme Leader, no sir, no idea what you're talking about...

@Armadeus

Huh, speaking of Ren escorting Rey into the throne room - I wonder what they were thinking seeing him lead her in with his hand AT THE SMALL OF HER FRIGGIN' BACK. Isn't that an unusually familiar way to treat a supposed prisoner?

@Rimfaxe96

I thought it was her left arm he was holding. I'm seeing it again tomorrow, I'll look closer.

Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

SheLitAFire wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:What happens to the purple attendants in the throne room? I’m pretty sure they are there when Ren escorts her in, but disappear later on...

@Cowgirlsamurai

Keeping quiet, if they know what's good for them... pretending they didn't see anything... going about their business... they most certainly did not see Kylo Ren kill the Supreme Leader, no sir, no idea what you're talking about...

@Armadeus

Huh, speaking of Ren escorting Rey into the throne room - I wonder what they were thinking seeing him lead her in with his hand AT THE SMALL OF HER FRIGGIN' BACK. Isn't that an unusually familiar way to treat a supposed prisoner?

@Rimfaxe96

I thought it was her left arm he was holding. I'm seeing it again tomorrow, I'll look closer.

@SheLitAFire

I thought the same.

Kylo Rey wrote:Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

@Kylo Rey

Not sure if he’s referring to Reylo as the “OMG what are you doing part”, but seeing as TFA clearly points in that direction, I don’t understand why JJ would be shocked.  Am I supposed to be surprised that he wasn't?  Honestly I wish they’d be a little more upfront on this being a coordinated effort between the writers, instead of this promotion of PlotGate bs.  A “romance that’s a little bit different “ (in JJs own words) was being developed as early as 2013.  Rian didn’t flip anything around.

IoJovi wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

@Kylo Rey

Not sure if he’s referring to Reylo as the “OMG what are you doing part”, but seeing as TFA clearly points in that direction, I don’t understand why JJ would be shocked.  Am I supposed to be surprised that he wasn't?  Honestly I wish they’d be a little more upfront on this being a coordinated effort between the writers, instead of this promotion of PlotGate bs.  A “romance that’s a little bit different “ (in JJs own words) was being developed as early as 2013.  Rian didn’t flip anything around.

@IoJovi

Perhaps he's referring to Luke? Things like Luke's arc and death at the end sound bold and risky, in theory. Especially that early in the process.

I remember that quote about romance from JJ. That, and the way he set up Rey and Kylo in TFA, makes it clear he wouldn't find Reylo shocking.

Kessel wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

@Kylo Rey

Not sure if he’s referring to Reylo as the “OMG what are you doing part”, but seeing as TFA clearly points in that direction, I don’t understand why JJ would be shocked.  Am I supposed to be surprised that he wasn't?  Honestly I wish they’d be a little more upfront on this being a coordinated effort between the writers, instead of this promotion of PlotGate bs.  A “romance that’s a little bit different “ (in JJs own words) was being developed as early as 2013.  Rian didn’t flip anything around.

@IoJovi

Perhaps he's referring to Luke? Things like Luke's arc and death at the end sound bold and risky, in theory. Especially that early in the process.

I remember that quote about romance from JJ. That, and the way he set up Rey and Kylo in TFA, makes it clear he wouldn't find Reylo shocking.

@Kessel

True about Luke, but I'd have to think the GA wouldn't find his arc all that shocking, aside from his death.  Judging from events in TFA and the fact he's exiled himself, it was clear to me he shared some responsibility as far as how things stood - I just didn't know how.  From a GA perspective, I'd think they'd find the real relationship between Ben and Rey more shocking over Luke's character progression.  Still, I have read in some quarters the idea of Luke attempting to kill family reprehensible, even if I see it as a solitary moment of weakness on his part.  He's human after all.

IoJovi wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

@Kylo Rey

Not sure if he’s referring to Reylo as the “OMG what are you doing part”, but seeing as TFA clearly points in that direction, I don’t understand why JJ would be shocked.  Honestly I wish they’d be a little more upfront on this being a coordinated effort between the writers, instead of this promotion of PlotGate bs.  A “romance that’s a little bit different “ (in JJs own words) was being developed as early as 2013.  Rian didn’t flip anything around.

@IoJovi
Rian has at least been upfront that he hasn't been involved in the writing of IX. I think he met with JJ for lunch and gave him a run-down of what he was thinking for the conclusion, but the real coordination ended with VIII.

As for the "romance that's a little different" from 2013 I'm sure he was referring to their major idea of planning a romance between opposing Force users. Only two concrete characters even existed when JJ made that statement: Jedi Killer and Kira. They still weren't sure what they wanted to do with the third male protagonist. They landed on ex-Stormtrooper eventually, but Jedi Killer and Kira were always a lot more focused. I find it hard to believe that they would have any big idea about a "different kind of romance" that involved a Han-Solo-like pirate or smuggler and a young Force Sensitive woman. That's the opposite of different.  

I have no real evidence for this besides concept art but I believe at one point Kira was the legacy child (a Solo, Luke never had kids). Jedi Killer was more of a Phantom of the Opera or Frollo villain who was going to develop a romantic fixation on the Solo heroine. Eventually something flipped and Jedi Killer became Han and Leia's son instead and more of an anti-villain figure. Their romance would not be one-sided, but a trilogy-wide story about the light and dark.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:Anyone posted this yet? Rian on JJ's reaction to The Last Jedi:

@Kylo Rey

Not sure if he’s referring to Reylo as the “OMG what are you doing part”, but seeing as TFA clearly points in that direction, I don’t understand why JJ would be shocked.  Honestly I wish they’d be a little more upfront on this being a coordinated effort between the writers, instead of this promotion of PlotGate bs.  A “romance that’s a little bit different “ (in JJs own words) was being developed as early as 2013.  Rian didn’t flip anything around.

@IoJovi
Rian has at least been upfront that he hasn't been involved in the writing of IX. I think he met with JJ for lunch and gave him a run-down of what he was thinking for the conclusion, but the real coordination ended with VIII.

As for the "romance that's a little different" from 2013 I'm sure he was referring to their major idea of planning a romance between opposing Force users. Only two concrete characters even existed when JJ made that statement: Jedi Killer and Kira. They still weren't sure what they wanted to do with the third male protagonist. They landed on ex-Stormtrooper eventually, but Jedi Killer and Kira were always a lot more focused. I find it hard to believe that they would have any big idea about a "different kind of romance" that involved a Han-Solo-like pirate or smuggler and a young Force Sensitive woman. That's the opposite of different.  

I have no real evidence for this besides concept art but I believe at one point Kira was the legacy child (a Solo, Luke never had kids). Jedi Killer was more of a Phantom of the Opera or Frollo villain who was going to develop a romantic fixation on the Solo heroine. Eventually something flipped and Jedi Killer became Han and Leia's son instead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I recall @ISeeAnlsland telling me this same thing - the romance was always going to revolve around the Solo child, even in the infant stages of planning.  They just had no concrete foundation in place on what kind of character said Solo child would be.  Interesting!

@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

PalmettoBlue wrote:@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

@PalmettoBlue

That’s what I’m saying too - I’m not disagreeing with it. I’m saying are we supposed to be shocked that JJ was onboard with what Rian did?

PalmettoBlue wrote:@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

@PalmettoBlue

Yeah, that's what I took from it too. Rian was probably referring to Luke's arc and story - I mean astral projecting yourself to another planet to confront your nephew is pretty out there and something no one predicted beforehand. Also taking this as confirmation that JJ didn't find the Reylo aspect surprising either (which duh) and contrary to what the antis say - he was into it. I actually wonder if that's the reason he came back. The opportunity to finish off Rey and Kylo's stories was too tantalising an opportunity to pass up, because no offence, it sure as hell isn't the Resistance storyline (and this is being reflected in the GA reaction - I've seen quite a few people say that they want Episode IX to focus on Rey and Kylo and less of everybody else).

Kylo Rey wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

@PalmettoBlue

Yeah, that's what I took from it too. Rian was probably referring to Luke's arc and story - I mean astral projecting yourself to another planet to confront your nephew is pretty out there and something no one predicted beforehand. Also taking this as confirmation that JJ didn't find the Reylo aspect surprising either (which duh) and contrary to what the antis say - he was into it. I actually wonder if that's the reason he came back. The opportunity to finish off Rey and Kylo's stories was too tantalising an opportunity to pass up, because no offence, it sure as hell isn't the Resistance storyline (and this is being reflected in the GA reaction - I've seen quite a few people say that they want Episode IX to focus on Rey and Kylo and less of everybody else).

@Kylo Rey

The bolded is pretty much what I've been hearing from everyone I talk to.  I'm glad the GA loves the hell out of Reylo, even if they found the Resistance plot to be just meh....

IoJovi wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

@PalmettoBlue

Yeah, that's what I took from it too. Rian was probably referring to Luke's arc and story - I mean astral projecting yourself to another planet to confront your nephew is pretty out there and something no one predicted beforehand. Also taking this as confirmation that JJ didn't find the Reylo aspect surprising either (which duh) and contrary to what the antis say - he was into it. I actually wonder if that's the reason he came back. The opportunity to finish off Rey and Kylo's stories was too tantalising an opportunity to pass up, because no offence, it sure as hell isn't the Resistance storyline (and this is being reflected in the GA reaction - I've seen quite a few people say that they want Episode IX to focus on Rey and Kylo and less of everybody else).

@Kylo Rey

The bolded is pretty much what I've been hearing from everyone I talk to.  I'm glad the GA loves the hell out of Reylo, even if they found the Resistance plot to be just meh....

@IoJovi

yep, my experience too. Both IRL and online.

Kylo Rey wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:@IoJovi I read that differently- JJ was NOT like WTH are you doing. He was into it...

@PalmettoBlue

Yeah, that's what I took from it too. Rian was probably referring to Luke's arc and story - I mean astral projecting yourself to another planet to confront your nephew is pretty out there and something no one predicted beforehand. Also taking this as confirmation that JJ didn't find the Reylo aspect surprising either (which duh) and contrary to what the antis say - he was into it. I actually wonder if that's the reason he came back. The opportunity to finish off Rey and Kylo's stories was too tantalising an opportunity to pass up, because no offence, it sure as hell isn't the Resistance storyline (and this is being reflected in the GA reaction - I've seen quite a few people say that they want Episode IX to focus on Rey and Kylo and less of everybody else).

@Kylo Rey
I keep saying JJ didn't agree to come back for uncharted plot elements like Poe. There's nothing that would have interested him beyond VIII besides Kylo and Rey. No other plot or character elements were left so tantalizingly unfinished. Sure, Finn and Rose are going to have to do something in IX and Luke is going to be a cool Force ghost, but Rey and Kylo are the centre of the story. They always have been. He's back for them.

People who think JJ is going to throw out two films (one of which he made, the other of which he co-produced and OKAYED 100%) are on hardcore denial pills and living in Denialville with no way out.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:  
I keep saying JJ didn't agree to come back for uncharted plot elements like Poe. There's nothing that would have interested him beyond VIII besides Kylo and Rey. No other plot or character elements were left so tantalizingly unfinished. Sure, Finn and Rose are going to have to do something in IX and Luke is going to be a cool Force ghost, but Rey and Kylo are the centre of the story. They always have been. He's back for them.

People who think JJ is going to throw out two films (one of which he made, the other of which he co-produced and OKAYED 100%) are on hardcore denial pills and living in Denialville with no way out.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Same people who just few days before TLJ premiere inexplicably started to believe in Rey Solo when the Visual Dictionary heavily hinted at or even confirmed, don't remember which, the Force Bond. Just cause it isn't Reylo. The Coz-it-isn't-Reylo will be the end of them.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:What happens to the purple attendants in the throne room? I’m pretty sure they are there when Ren escorts her in, but disappear later on...

@Cowgirlsamurai

Keeping quiet, if they know what's good for them... pretending they didn't see anything... going about their business... they most certainly did not see Kylo Ren kill the Supreme Leader, no sir, no idea what you're talking about...

@Armadeus

Huh, speaking of Ren escorting Rey into the throne room - I wonder what they were thinking seeing him lead her in with his hand AT THE SMALL OF HER FRIGGIN' BACK. Isn't that an unusually familiar way to treat a supposed prisoner?

@Rimfaxe96

I thought it was her left arm he was holding. I'm seeing it again tomorrow, I'll look closer.

@SheLitAFire

I thought the same.

@PalmettoBlue

Looked like her back to me. Only 80% sure though

As I continue to dip in and out of the Art of TLJ book, one of the key themes seems to be juggling the logistics of managing 3 SW films time and human resources wise. Whilst J.J. is shooting TFA, Rian is writing, RO is also in the works. And I’m reading many instances of designers and artists being stretched to cover all three films. I do find this process fascinating though from first draft to principle shooting.



Finn/Rose/ DJ shuttle was actually a mini version of Kylo’s shuttle that was refigured



The set for the mirror cave was turned into the Jedi temple which then became the back of the Crait mine to economise space and money as far as possible

MrsWindu wrote:As I continue to dip in and out of the Art of TLJ book, one of the key themes seems to be juggling the logistics of managing 3 SW films time and human resources wise. Whilst J.J. is shooting TFA, Rian is writing, RO is also in the works. And I’m reading many instances of designers and artists being stretched to cover all three films. I do find this process fascinating though from first draft to principle shooting.



Finn/Rose/ DJ shuttle was actually a mini version of Kylo’s shuttle that was refigured



The set for the mirror cave was turned into the Jedi temple which then became the back of the Crait mine to economise space and money as far as possible

@MrsWindu

Thanks for these awesome details! As someone who hopes to get into theatre or movie artistic productions, these are really interesting details.

The Leia page for the VD has two interesting details:

1. "Like a diamond, Leia shines under pressure."

2.  The bit with the Force Bonds and how Leia's connection to Luke is shown 2x, in tandem with Rey and Ben's connection: they show the paired 'homing beacon' bracelets Rey and Leia wear. Leia's stated wish in TFA is to bring her loved ones 'home' and we know that Rey's compulsion is to reunite/return people home because of her childhood trauma. But regardless of what Snoke lied about when it comes to the bond, Ben's mother and Rey wear these matching beacons meant to return somebody safely home.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:As I continue to dip in and out of the Art of TLJ book, one of the key themes seems to be juggling the logistics of managing 3 SW films time and human resources wise. Whilst J.J. is shooting TFA, Rian is writing, RO is also in the works. And I’m reading many instances of designers and artists being stretched to cover all three films. I do find this process fascinating though from first draft to principle shooting.



Finn/Rose/ DJ shuttle was actually a mini version of Kylo’s shuttle that was refigured



The set for the mirror cave was turned into the Jedi temple which then became the back of the Crait mine to economise space and money as far as possible

@MrsWindu

Thanks for these awesome details! As someone who hopes to get into theatre or movie artistic productions, these are really interesting details.

@Rei of Sunshine

Its a pleasure. I highly recommend this book !! Oh I wish I knew about production design in my youth. Although my son is now considering it as a possible career after trawling through both Art of books

Ditto, I was lucky enough to find it and the VD in my Xmas stocking!

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:What happens to the purple attendants in the throne room? I’m pretty sure they are there when Ren escorts her in, but disappear later on...

@Cowgirlsamurai

Keeping quiet, if they know what's good for them... pretending they didn't see anything... going about their business... they most certainly did not see Kylo Ren kill the Supreme Leader, no sir, no idea what you're talking about...

@Armadeus

Huh, speaking of Ren escorting Rey into the throne room - I wonder what they were thinking seeing him lead her in with his hand AT THE SMALL OF HER FRIGGIN' BACK. Isn't that an unusually familiar way to treat a supposed prisoner?

@Rimfaxe96

I thought it was her left arm he was holding. I'm seeing it again tomorrow, I'll look closer.

@SheLitAFire

I thought the same.

@PalmettoBlue

Looked like her back to me. Only 80% sure though

@Rimfaxe96

Just got back from my 5th viewing. It was her arm.

SheLitAFire wrote:Just got back from my 5th viewing. It was her arm.

@SheLitAFire

Wew, thank God. Otherwise I'd be forever wondering why Snoke isn't catching up on his compassion again.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:Just got back from my 5th viewing. It was her arm.

@SheLitAFire

Wew, thank God. Otherwise I'd be forever wondering why Snoke isn't catching up on his compassion again.

@Rimfaxe96

Oh, I'd much rather you be right about it and that he was touching the small of her back! I can see where you think that though, it's something about her belt thing that looks like it could be his arm/hand, but you see his arm is bent up to touch the back of her tricep.