Official TROS Spoilers discussion

motherofpearl1 wrote:Anyone seen this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9kCvNmSX-I

@motherofpearl1

Thanks for sharing! Finished watching it (couldn't until now, after arrival from work, eating dinner), and...WW84 will be a fascinating test. If it's very successful, it may open the door for romance obvious plots for women in movies, and hopefully with a HEA. (With WW, it doesn't bother me as much if Steve is with her or not because she's immortal)

Novel isn't going to say one way or the other what happens to Ben because he got jerked offstage to the Disney Vault for potential future content. Which LFL staff will probably get cranky if anybody pointed out that "you'll learn more about his story as we get further into the trilogy because that's potential future content." is the line they've been stringing fans along with since 2016.

californiagirl wrote:Saw another post, someone saying it's both fine and not fine, it's complicated. Tears of both joy and sadness? I suspect they might finally confirm Rey and Ben's love, but also his death. Just a guess.

But already I see people calling the author a corporate shill, the same people who think the Kylo comics are intended only to cause pain and be sadistic, and that everyone in LF and Disney is basically an evil hivemind, and they all actively hate Reylo and its fanbase and had no plan or intention of making it canon at all. I doubt Rae Carson even knew what would happen in TROS when she first signed on. It's getting to a borderline "hating SW is a personality trait" level (it's not, and neither is being a fan for that matter). Abstain from the novel or whatever Rey's parent backstory the author wants to write, I will, but it doesn't make people morally or intellectually superior.

@californiagirl

I'm trying not to feel too concerned for a lot of Reylos (or the ones that I see that are not happy on Twitter). Nowhere close to TLJ dudebros...I'm just a worrier - It's not about optics, it's about concern for people's well-being and happiness. Negativity cannot be in a vacuum, it WILL affect well-being and outlook.

It does feel it's getting to the point of completely ignore LF or find a balance with what they create - it's personal, the decision. For now, it seems as though a lot of people are having a tug-o-war (or to convince others, which is fine, as long peer pressure/cliques are not involved).

Saw a post that said there's no ghost Ben, but something else that made them feel better. Still, if they're explicit about Ben's feelings, and they still make out for a good ten seconds, I'm not sure how anyone could interpret Rey's feelings as "platonic" or a relief or thank you kiss. Just... what.

It's funny but a lot of Ben/Kylo haters are arguing that Rey deserves the Skywalker name because she's more 'worthy' as she didn't murder anyone.

Clearly they've forgotten this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkYQRb1tfk

They also obviously forgot all about Anakin Skywalker slaughtering a bunch of children!

This idea of the Skywalker name being some glittering ideal of goodness only works if you pretend that the whole family began with Luke. Actually, a character who kills people fits into the family tree quite well lol.

I'm also sick and tired of Kylo being accused of 'rape' because he invaded Rey's mind without her permission.
If this is the case, he also raped Poe, Rey raped the stormtroopers, and this beautiful scene here was also 'rape'.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHksDAB9vOo

So major spoilers from the novel via Riri ( who is on this forum too - thank you @Riri) :


So there’s a lot of love there , no force ghost of Ben but also I feel a bit vindicated because I’ve been saying for ages skywalkers are incarnations of the force and Ben in particular ( only son , avatars of force , representing cosmic force , Son of suns , tree of life , Holy Spirit etc supreme intellect appearing as someone sacred to you, all the references to the mask and helmet from Isaiah and Joseph campbell
Masks of god etc etc ) and this seems to confirm this .Yes Ben is likely to be in WBW from this but also WBW as underworld outside of time and space represents the cosmic force as Rey is the living force .

Ben says I will be with you always not the force will be with you . This is major and for those of you familiar with the bible you will know what this means .
Somebody on twitter yesterday who is one of the people who got the book early put it a good way in a tweet few months ago :




This has always been about the force . If you see the saga in this way it changes everything. Star Wars is showing us where religion originated in a galaxy long time ago as it takes from major world religions and myths tied to that .

So as expected, no Rey’s perspective during the kiss and no explicit mention of Rey’s romantic feelings then? “A kiss of gratitude and acknowledgment”, wow how romantic.

Thanks @riri and @ahsokatano
Glad to know that Bennie Boi force ghost is gonna lay pipe

Sweet, but way too depressing.
I can't read it, sorry.

And I'm sorry but 'Ben gives Rey back to the galaxy to atone for the evil he'd done'.....oh please. Once again, pure and worthy Rey. Rey is too good for mortal man. She belongs to the galaxy. Nothing and no one else is good enough for her.
Despite the fact that this paragon of virtue:
Enjoys shooting down TIES. Piloted by brainwashed child soldiers like her friend Finn. See TLJ.
Showed a sadistic pleasure in tormenting her adversary by playing with him like a cat does with its prey. Only a cat doesn't realise it's causing pain to its victim. See TFA.
Tried to beat up an old man. From behind. See TLJ.
Responded to a rather pathetic request to rule the galaxy with Kylo, who'd just saved her life - twice - by reaching for a weapon. See TLJ.
Tried to kill him twice - once when he was unarmed. See TROS.
Blew up a ship piloted by child soldiers like her friend. See TROS.

Touching that Ben's final scene is, it only cements what a Mary Sue Rey is now. Not a human being but a symbol. And I have to admit I really really hate that 'she could never love Kylo Ren' line.

Maybe Ben got off lightly, he would have always been part Kylo, because Kylo is the armour he hid behind because he'd been abused. If Rey refused to love that part of him, he was better off without her.

Toldja it's gonna be trash. Good that only die-hard fans care about novelizations and literally nobody else.

Wait it is romantic - the kiss isn’t just gratitude and acknowledgement but “ celebration that they’d found each other at last “- that’s like soulmates . Reunion of soulmates . And she mourns him , feels like half of her is missing , she calls their connection precious , and that now it’s ripped away . She and Ben are literally torn apart . When he said that line in TFA it was foreshadowing The bit that really kills me from that excerpt above though is Ben saying that his final
Awareness was rey clasping his hand in his own .

It's trash. it chickens out as expected. It's told from ben's POV. It calls the kiss "gratitude" cause that's the safest. I knew it would suck when I read the writer's preferences. Oh, and guess what comes right after Ben dies? REYYYYYYYYYYYYY. of course. Works like a clock. They don't know what they want so they think if they try to half-please everyone (give everyone something and take something away from everyone) and keep being vague and "all options open for interpretation" they are going to rebuild fandom. No losers, that's how you lost them. By refusing to be clear on anything.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Sweet, but way too depressing.
I can't read it, sorry.

And I'm sorry but 'Ben gives Rey back to the galaxy to atone for the evil he'd done'.....oh please. Once again, pure and worthy Rey. Rey is too good for mortal man. She belongs to the galaxy. Nothing and no one else is good enough for her.
Despite the fact that this paragon of virtue:
Enjoys shooting down TIES. Piloted by brainwashed child soldiers like her friend Finn. See TLJ.
Showed a sadistic pleasure in tormenting her adversary by playing with him like a cat does with its prey. Only a cat doesn't realise it's causing pain to its victim. See TFA.
Tried to beat up an old man. From behind. See TLJ.
Responded to a rather pathetic request to rule the galaxy with Kylo, who'd just saved her life - twice - by reaching for a weapon. See TLJ.
Tried to kill him twice - once when he was unarmed. See TROS.
Blew up a ship piloted by child soldiers like her friend. See TROS.

Touching that Ben's final scene is, it only cements what a Mary Sue Rey is now. Not a human being but a symbol. And I have to admit I really really hate that 'she could never love Kylo Ren' line.

Maybe Ben got off lightly, he would have always been part Kylo, because Kylo is the armour he hid behind because he'd been abused. If Rey refused to love that part of him, he was better off without her.

@motherofpearl1


Perhaps it's just a coincidence but I've seen internet fanboys said Rey is a symbol for women to learn and a role model for little girls because she represents an ideal of a pure, naivete, childlike, virginal heroine that men prefer, it was the grossest sith that I've ever seen. Yikes

My initial reaction (of course, based only on this piece of text): the writing just feels condescending.
Too much explanation is given, disclaimers included. No heart.
Blah.

Why should any Reylo seek an alternative text to tell us what to think or feel about that failure of storytelling which is TROS is beyond me. We have our own imagination and literally thousands of wonderful fanfics to choose from, produced by us, for us, and for free.

I understand, though, that some level of Reylo canonization would perhaps decrease the amount of online gasslighting and harassment, but there's always an option to just stick to our own spaces. Save your money and save your peace of mind.

AhsokaTano wrote:Wait it is romantic - the kiss isn’t just gratitude and acknowledgement but “ celebration that they’d found each other at last “- that’s like soulmates . Reunion of soulmates . And she mourns him , feels like half of her is missing , she calls their connection precious , and that now it’s ripped away . She and Ben are literally torn apart . When he said that line in TFA it was foreshadowing  The bit that really kills me from that excerpt above though is Ben saying that his final
Awareness was rey clasping his hand in his own .  

@AhsokaTano

Problem is, it seems to place the importance on their dyad connection, which would have existed regardless of whether Rey’s feelings for Ben were romantic or platonic. She doesn’t have to be attracted to him or want to be his life partner for them to be “soulmates”.

the writing is not just condescending but it also inserts some clear "writer clarifies that she is in no way trying to create controversy" so we get gems like "Rey didn't mourn Kylo Ren, only Ben". LMAO! This is not Rey. this is Rae carson addressing woke twitter. Look, this is 100% PC, OK? Don't come after me. Just ben, not even 0.0000001% of Kylo. 100% Ben.

Embarrassing and 100% in line with LFL inability to hold their ground.

I don't think that many cared to buy this book but after these leaks even less will. heck, I bet that audience most interested in having the copy were Reylos so good job at alienating them.

vaderito wrote:the writing is not just condescending but it also inserts some clear "writer clarifies that she is in no way trying to create controversy" so we get gems like "Rey didn't mourn Kylo Ren, only Ben". LMAO! This is not Rey. this is Rae carson addressing woke twitter. Look, this is 100% PC, OK? Don't come after me. Just ben, not even 0.0000001% of Kylo. 100% Ben.

Embarrassing and 100% in line with LFL inability to hold their ground.

I don't think that many cared to buy this book but after these leaks even less will. heck, I bet that audience most interested in having the copy were Reylos so good job at alienating them.

@vaderito

Exactly.  LFL keeps trying to eat their cake and have it too on the subject of Reylo.  A story teller needs to have the courage of his or her convictions.

If it were under $10 I might buy it but at $14.99 I'm not sure it's worth getting.

It's not worth getting. It's poorly written and movie is the only canon anyway. This is just a cash grab basically.

The TFA novelization was pretty bad IMO, dry as dust. TLJ was better but I only kept the book because of the last passage about the Caretakers, which was really good. I can't even recall the rest of it. Star Wars in book form is just not for me, so I would only get the TROS novelization if it was really good. I will wait a bit to hear more.

Looking back at TFA, it was set up for a BatB love story. Rey and Ben were meant to bring balance together.

But they chickened out. And I think it's partly due to the #metoo movement. Far too many idiots, like that tool godisawesome on CBR, see the interrogation scene as a metaphor for rape.

Rape is the brutal violation of one person's body by another. What Kylo did was an invasion of her privacy. I notice no mention of him raping Poe, no way, because Poe's a man. But thanks to t**** like the aforementioned, they eventually decided to throw away that beautiful love story, and turn Rey into a religious symbol. The final straw was hiring Terrio and his Luke/Leia fetish, unfortunately shared by the director.
I think the writer has tried her best to give reylos some comfort but it's just adding salt into the wound, at least for this Reylo.

By the way, thanjs riri, and I hope you can at some time show us the ending post Ben's death, so we can see if it's as corny as the film!

Well I wasn't expecting anything else and the sad thing is that I don't even care anymore.
They could have written the most romantic declaration of love with Rey POV, but it wouldn't have changed the fact that what really counts is in the movie, and unfortunately it already ruined everything for me.

I'll just keep pretending that this awful movie never existed

I'm super happy that TROS made the least money of ST movies and got bad reviews. I didn't see it in theaters after reading spoilers and I'm glad more people abstined. A movie where Ben dies and the trio hogs screen time will never get my money. same goes for trio movie. Will not watch. Will not even torrent.

To be honest, while I’d be happy about Ben returning, I’m not so sure I’d be interested in continuing the Rey/Ben dynamic when the people in charge keep on playing coy and refuse to commit 100% to anything even after they put a kiss in the movie.