Official TROS Spoilers discussion

They killed SW when they killed Ben Solo. The idiots honestly thought SW would survive without the Skywalker/Solo family. Even more idiotic....they thought giving the Skywalker name to Palpatine's granddaughter would appease us.
Newsflash JJ....?it doesn't.

Lets see. the way I see it, the state of SW post-TROS (future):

Ben Solo is dead and with him all the real Skywalkers.

Rey is completely messed up thanks to poorly handled Palpawalker and now thanks to PalpaCloneWalker crap.

Nobody cares for completely disposable Finn, Poe, Rose, Zorii, Jannah (since she wasn't revealed as Lando's daughter, she carries no nostalgia value though Calrissians are always going to carry less nostalgia than Skywalkers)

So their best bet is to move into far future that doesn't have to address any of these characters. However, that's not how the human nature works. There will be time for Skywalker nostalgia and they'll dust off that family in some way. Question is how. Made up child of Luke after all or return of Ben Solo somehow?

My bet is Disney pulling "Somehow... Ben Solo has returned" in a few years, where they're going to further destroy the Skywalker legacy turning the character into a mix of Wolverine and John Wick, but in space.

vaderito wrote:Ironic. JJ understood symbolism pretty well in TFA. Rey comes from barren planet with too much light/sun (Jakku). Kylo comes from barren planet with too much night/darkness (SKB). they meet in the space garden of Eden - a verdant, fertile forest with enough light to make life possible and enough dark to prevent light from scorching life. And then he tossed all that out of the window for cheap fan service such as Rey on Tats that carried no symbolic weight.

@vaderito

I’m thinking Lawrence Kasdan understood symbolism in TFA.  In TROS, we got Chris Terrio.  JJ is the one constant there.  I think Kasdan was the missing factor in TROS.

@motherofpearl1
@californiagirl

You’re right, it’s just a bad film. I was talking to a family member about it, and she gave it a B-...and then she found out what I thought of it (a C- or D+), and she said, “OK, now I can be honest. I was just being nice because I know you like Star Wars so much.”

Another good example would be the Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief film. My kids have read the book series, and they liked it so much that of course I had to read it too, and I could see what they saw in it. The Lightning Thief is a terrific YA book, and the series is wildly popular with Gen Z. The film, however, is garbage— my kids were just that, kids, and they had no desire to watch it more than once. Just because you have a devoted fan base doesn’t mean you can turn out schlock.

The whole fine print for "we'll say she's related to the Emperor for the sake of contrived conflict/drama in the movie but actually isn't" is in the novel



I mean, couldn't they just have used a scenario like my original interpretation of TFA - that her parents got themselves in the middle of some bad s**t to do with the Empire/First Order by accident & that led to them dumping Rey on Jakku and subsequently getting murdered while she spends the next 16 years in denial/ignorance until BB-8 turns up? It's far less convoluted and also allows for the same type of "fate you have to face/can't escape from" dramatic stakes without your audience defaulting to "Now I'm gonna be sick thinking about RotJ era Emperor getting his rocks off with some poor space lady." Or my go-to joke that Rey's dad is Scott Evil from Austin Powers.

Speaking of contrived drama with a likely loophole, yeah Ben's off chilling in the Disney Vault because they had to rush poor Rey through a checklist of emotional beats for the sake of audience nostalgia. It feels most plausible that decision was made with the justification of "we can always bring them back later" (and the only way I'd ever see Rey coming back would have to be with him). Otherwise the only part of the ending that even has the slightest bit of warmth/sincerity is the implication that Jannah and Lando will probably be teaming up and looking after each other. And that's due in part to the warmth of the actors playing the characters not anything in the writing.

I remember way back in school my biology teacher telling his students that a clone would be the exact image of the original, right down to every freckle.
Yet Rey's daddy in flashback scenes doesn't look a bit like a young Ian McDiarmid.
Also, Rey's mum is wearing a blue hood - like popular images of the Virgin Mary.

Lily Snape wrote:

vaderito wrote:Ironic. JJ understood symbolism pretty well in TFA. Rey comes from barren planet with too much light/sun (Jakku). Kylo comes from barren planet with too much night/darkness (SKB). they meet in the space garden of Eden - a verdant, fertile forest with enough light to make life possible and enough dark to prevent light from scorching life. And then he tossed all that out of the window for cheap fan service such as Rey on Tats that carried no symbolic weight.

@vaderito

I’m thinking Lawrence Kasdan understood symbolism in TFA.  In TROS, we got Chris Terrio.  JJ is the one constant there.  I think Kasdan was the missing factor in TROS.

@Lily Snape

My opinion, too. You beat it to me.

Instead of Kasdan we got CT for this part, the self esteemed king of symbolism and meta. Problem is, in reality this guy has no f*cking clue how these things work.
In my opinion, he was the nail in the coffin. With JJ alone, it would have been a shallow, but probably at least entertaining movie instead of this unpleasant and complete mess.

Terrio has a pretty bad track record, my brother loathed BvS and Justice League, despite being a fan of the comics for over forty years.

I'm genuinely astonished that they hired him for a saga as well loved as SW.

Piper Maru wrote:My bet is Disney pulling "Somehow... Ben Solo has returned" in a few years, where they're going to further destroy the Skywalker legacy turning the character into a mix of Wolverine and John Wick, but in space.

@Piper Maru

which actually could be done well by someone who knows how and who isn't going to make a movie by looking over his/her shoulder in fear of what certain corners of twitter will think. TROS screwed up in big part because you could feel they were scared of any negative reaction and tried to placate various fandoms that are at odds with each other by simultaneously giving something to and taking it away from each. Eg. they made sure to emphasize that Poe is 100% straight but had 2 rando women kiss. They had Reylo kiss but also Ben die right after and Rey revert to child-like state at the end the movie to be a Jedi Goddess that needs no man. Etc. Lot of examples where they tired to have a cake and eat it too.

But ironically, they've broken the hearts of us old time fans by erasing the Skywalker Solo family.

I never was a fan of the spin off novels which didn't focus on the main characters, which ki think is why TROS hit me so hard. What's weird is I don't even feel any enthusiasm for going to the cinema at all at the moment. The awful way they have brought my favourite series of films to an end has left me seriously depressed. I prefer Netflix at the moment!

I think that fans would take the end of Skywalker saga if the ending was right. But this is all kind of wrong that cannot be defended. Skywalkers end but their name continues thanks to the granddaughter of Palaptine['s clone who cloned imperfect not-at-all-identical clone of himself but still his clone that naturally sired Rey] which is just WTF mostly because the time for the Palatine reveal has passed in the first and second movie so the third one had no time to do anything proper with it. It seems to me that they loved Rey Rey Skywalker ending and wrote the movie around it instead of coming to it as a logical, earned conclusion.  

If they indeed Vaulted some characters, I hope it's only Ben and Rey (if she is salvageable at all at this point but at least clonesense is easy to discard cause GA won't read the book). No point wasting energy on the rest since they didn't ignite interest for 3 movies in a row and won't for 3 more.

I have no hope left for DFL,  I know they will milk the Skywalker nostalgia sooner or later. I think the safest choices that they're going to choose are "somehow Rey gets pregnant and she becomes Shmi" or "somehow Luke has a love child that we dun know". The odds are against Ben and I doubt that DFL would want to choose the riskier path. I also have the feeling that in their eyes, Rey Palwalker is Luke/Leia's adopted, purified child, so the Skywalker is clean and ready to reproduce.
Besides, DFL already gave me the impression that they just want to milk Vader (for comic/ game sales), Palpy (Palpy's clone would come back for every SW big trilogy) and Skywalker "title" (with Rey as a tool for them to produce more children with the Skywalker name) for eternity.

Rey is never going to get pregnant by natural means because she's the proxy for dudebros' daughters. She's the perpetual virgin and beautiful child, and her existence is based on being "innately moral, innately pure" (as per JJ). That's why they killed her "bad boyfriend" too, so he can't pop her cherry and upset the male demography who projects their expectations of what a woman should be onto Rey.

Now, I don't put it past them to pull a Shmi 2.0 with her

Rey lost feminist dudebros' support when she beat up Luke with the stick. All those "Rey is not a Mary Sue, she's my daughter's role model" defenders turned on her within second of laying waste on their childhood hero. Now they are her biggest detractors.

Oh yeah, the target audience (dudebros) dislike her immensely.

Dudebros remained SW's biggest audience. So we can say ST did well financially considering their immense dislike for the main hero. Also, "I am all the Jedi" rubbed the salt on the wound. The Jedi wouldn't talk to Anakin and Luke but of course they talked to Rey Palpatine. All in all, dudebros actually have a point. they just don't articulate it eloquently but one of TROS's downfalls is doubling down on what was the most criticized aspect of Rey - overpowered without earning s***, plus hijacking stuff from existing characters.

vaderito wrote:Dudebros remained SW's biggest audience. So we can say ST did well financially considering their immense dislike for the main hero. Also, "I am all the Jedi" rubbed the salt on the wound. The Jedi wouldn't talk to Anakin and Luke but of course they talked to Rey Palpatine. All in all, dudebros actually have a point. they just don't articulate it eloquently but one of TROS's downfalls is doubling down on what was the most criticized aspect of Rey - overpowered without earning s***, plus hijacking stuff from existing characters.

It still makes me seethe that the Jedi rushed to Rey's aid and not Ben's.

And how I now regret repeatedly defending Rey, insisting that she's not a Mary Sue.

If they give her a 'Force baby' in the comics, it'll be the last straw. I'll buy them to line my cats' litter boxes.
Yes,I know it's childish, but it'll at least make me smile!

Well according to he who must not be named , the plan is to bring back Ben solo . That Rey will have a child with Ben , found a new religion ( Jedi order ) and Ben will be the one guiding her and setting up the new faith via Rey . According to he who must not be named , Disney are working on an MCU style universe for Star Wars and Ben and Rey will be at the heart of it and instigate this . It’s faf as it always. ....

If only.
Unfortunately I suspect that we'll get something like this:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/will-rey-get-star-wars-solo-movie-rise-skywalker-1264672

In the long run, I think the desire for money will win out, re:Kylo. They'll do something with Ben one day, now whether it's good or not is entirely up in the air.

It's International Women's Day, so Reylos are poking fun at the SW account that is promoting the upcoming TROS video release, since TROS stripped Rey of her own agency, identity, and power, like that made her a strong female character. Which it decidedly didn't. Everything about her in TROS was because of, or done in service of, OT characters, who also got botched.

The only things worse are when SW social media does posts for Mother's Day and people point out that SW loves its dead mothers trope. Now including Leia, who gets to both lose her son and die in the process.

And her husband - and her brother.
Meanwhile....
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-rise-skywalker-confirms-finn-fan-theory-1264675

I wonder if JB has heard of this!

it's an old news. always check the date. it's Dec 21 2019.

The desire for money to win out would be the logical conclusion re: bringing Ben back, but honestly, they didn’t even have the foresight to realise he was their most popular character and grafted on a lesser version of Vader’s arc onto a character that was so much more than that, that I would honestly be a bit surprised now if they ever brought him back. It’s all been forced trio BS & ever since the TROS release, Luke & Leia’s FG twincest, just look at the home video promo today. It’s as if Ben Solo never existed.

AhsokaTano wrote:Well according to he who must not be named , the plan is to bring back Ben solo . That Rey will have a child with Ben , found a new religion ( Jedi order ) and Ben will be the one guiding her and setting up the new faith via Rey . According to he who must not be named , Disney are working on an MCU style universe for Star Wars and Ben and Rey will be at the heart of it and instigate this . It’s faf as it always. ....

@AhsokaTano

I'm only one vote, yet I vote to say that I think it's OK to name him. Why not? Irony is, he's one of the more positive dudebros, and Rian did feel bad teasing him.

Anyway, if he's correct, that shall be very cool.