Why are Some Fans So Fixated on Rey Skywalker?

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

@Darth Dingbat

While I’m certain that the story of Rey’s family is not over, I very much doubt that her heritage is going to be central over the Skywalker drama. I just don’t see the setup for it even in TFA. Rey is told that she needs to let go of waiting for her family, and that her destiny lies elsewhere. She doesn’t end the movie on, I must go out there and find out who I am and what my heritage is. Pretty much all of her big moments have something to do with the Skywalker/Solo. The arguably biggest dramatic moment in TFA (Han and Kylo on the bridge) has nothing to do with Rey or her family, it’s all Skywalker drama in which Rey is an observer; sure she has a stake in it because she really likes Han but still it’s not really her family drama. If you compare her with Luke, he may not know who his father really is in ANH, but his father is already shaping his future - “I want to be a Jedi like my father”. By comparison, Rey in a way needs to move on past her family in TFA in order to move forward and they’re not shaping her future.

@Saracene

But that's pretty much my point. So far, she's shaping up to be an observer in other people's drama; she's been mostly reacting to things happening around her in TFA, making few active choices of her own, and it seems like the Force (?) was guiding her towards the Skywalker-Solos; and she kept gaining symbols of the Skywalker-Solo family - the MF, the lightsaber.

The narrative is clearly driving her towards the Skywalker-Solos. There's no story for the trilogy in her being Luke's daughter, of course, and a Solo she ain't. There's also no story in a grown-up woman finding an adoptive family either. But I really hope there's more to her own, individual story than the Force/fate/whatever picking her to be Ben Solo's mate. Don't get me wrong, I think the connection between her and Kylo is central, I believe the Force has indeed picked the two of them for a purpose, and I've said it a million times that a romance doesn't cheapen a heroine's arc in any way - we even have that thread called "Reylo and Female Empowerment" where I think I wrote my posts about Reylo being an empowering romance.

But I still want Rey's unique story to have something that is unique to her - something that she needs to deal with, to overcome, to understand, in order to find her own destiny. And so far, the missing family is the only thing that is her own. It was a big thing for her, the biggest thing, the compulsion that sustained her for as long as she can remember. Her blind loyalty was the one defining thing in her life and in her character, before she got forcibly dragged off Jakku. She learns she mustn't stay on Jakku and that belonging is ahead of her, but that doesn't mean her past stops being what it is, or make it irrelevant. She moves forward now and goes to meet her destiny instead of staying back to wait for it, but that doesn't mean she won't have to deal with who she is and where she came from.

You can be an observer and still be the protagonist: nobody really cares about Miss Marple's backstory. But then, this is a heroic saga, not a detective story. Even if you think about great classic romances from Jane Eyre to Jane Austen, who the heroine is, what she wants and needs, and where she comes from is usually crucial - she needs to find her (secure) place in the world. She seeks belonging but she's the unique product of those particular circumstances that shape her destiny and that she needs to come to terms with, and that's true of Lizzy Bennet as much as Jane Eyre. Lizzy's story wouldn't be what she is if her father's estate weren't entailed, if she didn't come from a family of girls who need to find good husbands despite having no prospects, if her family weren't an anxiety-inducing mess, and if her father hadn't failed as a father figure. In comparison, Jane Eyre is more dramatically about Jane being the observer who finds out Rochester's secrets, but her unique circumstances - her challenges - are the direct product of her own past. It's no coincidence that the story begins with childhood trauma, and finally progresses to a secret inheritance. That secret inheritance doesn't save her; she saves herself, she becomes an agent of her own destiny, and only then does she come across the secret inheritance that gives her independence.

How many classic, female-centric romances are there where the heroine is a blank slate or has an irrelevant past/family circumstances? Right now, I can only think of Rebecca, but the narrator's self-effacing insipidity is her defining characteristic, and again that's more of a murder mystery than a heroic story, so...

@Darth Dingbat

Personal preference, but I always liked Daphne du Maurier's Jamaica Inn better than Rebecca. Definitely more of a gothic romance and mystery. The heroine is drawn into a mystery through her aunt's marriage. But both she and her LI eventually reject the expectations of how they should be based on the families they come from to take off together for a new and shared future. Plus Mary Yellen is a pretty kick a** heroine who holds no illusions about getting married as the end all for a woman's life (the relationship with the LI is very much a relationship of equals with attraction between light and dark).

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

@Darth Dingbat

While I’m certain that the story of Rey’s family is not over, I very much doubt that her heritage is going to be central over the Skywalker drama. I just don’t see the setup for it even in TFA. Rey is told that she needs to let go of waiting for her family, and that her destiny lies elsewhere. She doesn’t end the movie on, I must go out there and find out who I am and what my heritage is. Pretty much all of her big moments have something to do with the Skywalker/Solo. The arguably biggest dramatic moment in TFA (Han and Kylo on the bridge) has nothing to do with Rey or her family, it’s all Skywalker drama in which Rey is an observer; sure she has a stake in it because she really likes Han but still it’s not really her family drama. If you compare her with Luke, he may not know who his father really is in ANH, but his father is already shaping his future - “I want to be a Jedi like my father”. By comparison, Rey in a way needs to move on past her family in TFA in order to move forward and they’re not shaping her future.

@Saracene

But that's pretty much my point. So far, she's shaping up to be an observer in other people's drama; she's been mostly reacting to things happening around her in TFA, making few active choices of her own, and it seems like the Force (?) was guiding her towards the Skywalker-Solos; and she kept gaining symbols of the Skywalker-Solo family - the MF, the lightsaber.

The narrative is clearly driving her towards the Skywalker-Solos. There's no story for the trilogy in her being Luke's daughter, of course, and a Solo she ain't. There's also no story in a grown-up woman finding an adoptive family either. But I really hope there's more to her own, individual story than the Force/fate/whatever picking her to be Ben Solo's mate. Don't get me wrong, I think the connection between her and Kylo is central, I believe the Force has indeed picked the two of them for a purpose, and I've said it a million times that a romance doesn't cheapen a heroine's arc in any way - we even have that thread called "Reylo and Female Empowerment" where I think I wrote my posts about Reylo being an empowering romance.

But I still want Rey's unique story to have something that is unique to her - something that she needs to deal with, to overcome, to understand, in order to find her own destiny. And so far, the missing family is the only thing that is her own. It was a big thing for her, the biggest thing, the compulsion that sustained her for as long as she can remember. Her blind loyalty was the one defining thing in her life and in her character, before she got forcibly dragged off Jakku. She learns she mustn't stay on Jakku and that belonging is ahead of her, but that doesn't mean her past stops being what it is, or make it irrelevant. She moves forward now and goes to meet her destiny instead of staying back to wait for it, but that doesn't mean she won't have to deal with who she is and where she came from.

You can be an observer and still be the protagonist: nobody really cares about Miss Marple's backstory. But then, this is a heroic saga, not a detective story. Even if you think about great classic romances from Jane Eyre to Jane Austen, who the heroine is, what she wants and needs, and where she comes from is usually crucial - she needs to find her (secure) place in the world. She seeks belonging but she's the unique product of those particular circumstances that shape her destiny and that she needs to come to terms with, and that's true of Lizzy Bennet as much as Jane Eyre. Lizzy's story wouldn't be what she is if her father's estate weren't entailed, if she didn't come from a family of girls who need to find good husbands despite having no prospects, if her family weren't an anxiety-inducing mess, and if her father hadn't failed as a father figure. In comparison, Jane Eyre is more dramatically about Jane being the observer who finds out Rochester's secrets, but her unique circumstances - her challenges - are the direct product of her own past. It's no coincidence that the story begins with childhood trauma, and finally progresses to a secret inheritance. That secret inheritance doesn't save her; she saves herself, she becomes an agent of her own destiny, and only then does she come across the secret inheritance that gives her independence.

How many classic, female-centric romances are there where the heroine is a blank slate or has an irrelevant past/family circumstances? Right now, I can only think of Rebecca, but the narrator's self-effacing insipidity is her defining characteristic, and again that's more of a murder mystery than a heroic story, so...

@Darth Dingbat

It would be kind of sad to watch Kylo accept who his family is and reunite with them while Rey denies who hers were.I mean don't get me wrong I want Kylo to accept who he is and where he comes from but if Rey's parents were some DS I want to see some time spend on how it affects and potentially pulls her to the DS and how she eventually comes to term with the truth.Just because she will find the belonging she seeks in the Solo/Skywalker family doesn't mean she should forget her bilogical family.After all her parents might have loved her and left here there in a misguided belief that she'll be safer on Jakku.
I just think it's unfair to Rey if she reminds and observer to another family's drama through the entire trilogy.If she falls in love with Kylo that would become more personal for her and she would have more at stake to loose but I also want her to deal with her abandonment issues.

My own hunch (which is just that, a hunch) is that the mystery of Rey's family is not as much "who they were" but more "what happened to them" (and I believe they're dead, killed to be exact). And that its main purpose will be to create a personal connection between her and Snoke/FO, which at the moment is missing. I just doubt that her family will be the source of Rey's existential angst or that the movies will deal with her abandonment issues etc. In theory I'd like for these things to happen, but my gut feeling is that once Rey set her mind on the future and decided to look ahead, the Jakku part of her life is pretty much over and the filmmakers won't explore it anymore. I'm not saying BTW that this is a realistic way for Rey to feel, but Rey is not a real person and the movie characters, especially in adventure-type films, move on the way people in real life don't.

Rey overall would be a pretty unique case; I can't really think of another instance where the series' makers describe their movies as, "this is about family X", and yet have a main character who is not from the family X.

Saracene wrote:My own hunch (which is just that, a hunch) is that the mystery of Rey's family is not as much "who they were" but more "what happened to them" (and I believe they're dead, killed to be exact). And that its main purpose will be to create a personal connection between her and Snoke/FO, which at the moment is missing. I just doubt that her family will be the source of Rey's existential angst or that the movies will deal with her abandonment issues etc. In theory I'd like for these things to happen, but my gut feeling is that once Rey set her mind on the future and decided to look ahead, the Jakku part of her life is pretty much over and the filmmakers won't explore it anymore. I'm not saying BTW that this is a realistic way for Rey to feel, but Rey is not a real person and the movie characters, especially in adventure-type films, move on the way people in real life don't.

Rey overall would be a pretty unique case; I can't really think of another instance where the series' makers describe their movies as, "this is about family X", and yet have a main character who is not from the family X.

@Saracene

If they didn't want Rey's family to be such a big deal or influence her that much than they went about it the wrong way.I don't want to make any judgments yet because we don't have the whole story yet but they could have easily let us know who Rey's parents are or for that matter keep some of the orinal idea about Rey/Kira having a father figure that takes care of her(similary to how Lukes uncle and aunt took care of him or Anakin and his mother)).Instead they not only ilimated that part but they also made her an abaondned girl turned a lonely scavanger while also keeping the mistery of Rey's parents(or just make her a Solo/Skywalker).
if they had just went with someone taking care of Rey while she's on Jakku and  told us point blank who her parents were then we wouldn't have the mess we have now with Rey Solo and Reywalker theories.I want to believe the writers are smarter than this and they didn't make Rey a scacenger on Jakku being on her own  because it sounded so cool(like it happened with Fin  being  a Stormtroope but not acting like one  or Kylo's ashes of his enemies).

CienaRee wrote:If they didn't want Rey's family to be such a big deal or influence her that much than they went about it the wrong way.I don't want to make any judgments yet because we don't have the whole story yet but they could have easily let us know who Rey's parents are or for that matter keep some of the orinal idea about Rey/Kira having a father figure that takes care of her(similary to how Lukes uncle and aunt took care of him or Anakin and his mother)).Instead they not only ilimated that part but they also made her an abaondned girl turned a lonely scavanger while also keeping the mistery of Rey's parents(or just make her a Solo/Skywalker).
if they had just went with someone taking care of Rey while she's on Jakku and  told us point blank who her parents were then we wouldn't have the mess we have now with Rey Solo and Reywalker theories.I want to believe the writers are smarter than this and they didn't make Rey a scacenger on Jakku being on her own  because it sounded so cool(like it happened with Fin  being  a Stormtroope but not acting like one  or Kylo's ashes of his enemies).

@CienaRee

Yeah but I do get an impression that Rey Solo and Reywalker (more so Reywalker) theories is exactly what they wanted, as a smokescreen for the real story. I don't believe for a second that they created the mystery about Rey's parents not knowing what conclusion most of the audience would jump to. I personally dislike this fixation on surprises over just telling a compelling story, but that's what a lot of filmmakers get carried away with.

Saracene wrote:

CienaRee wrote:If they didn't want Rey's family to be such a big deal or influence her that much than they went about it the wrong way.I don't want to make any judgments yet because we don't have the whole story yet but they could have easily let us know who Rey's parents are or for that matter keep some of the orinal idea about Rey/Kira having a father figure that takes care of her(similary to how Lukes uncle and aunt took care of him or Anakin and his mother)).Instead they not only ilimated that part but they also made her an abaondned girl turned a lonely scavanger while also keeping the mistery of Rey's parents(or just make her a Solo/Skywalker).
if they had just went with someone taking care of Rey while she's on Jakku and  told us point blank who her parents were then we wouldn't have the mess we have now with Rey Solo and Reywalker theories.I want to believe the writers are smarter than this and they didn't make Rey a scacenger on Jakku being on her own  because it sounded so cool(like it happened with Fin  being  a Stormtroope but not acting like one  or Kylo's ashes of his enemies).

@CienaRee

Yeah but I do get an impression that Rey Solo and Reywalker (more so Reywalker) theories is exactly what they wanted, as a smokescreen for the real story. I don't believe for a second that they created the mystery about Rey's parents not knowing what conclusion most of the audience would jump to. I personally dislike this fixation on surprises over just telling a compelling story, but that's what a lot of filmmakers get carried away with.

@Saracene

I have to say, though - if the whole thing is just a smokescreen without much narrative significance, then it's really poor storytelling, IMO.

But I guess we'll see.

I agree with @CienaRee - with a few simple touches Rey might easily have been established as an orphan whose family background is insignificant beyond what we already see in TFA: she's poor, her life is hard, she dreams of something better but hasn't had the chance to leave. Few poor people in this world get the chance to leave, either. Sure, some conspiracy theorists would still have thought she's a Solo or a Skywalker, but her parentage wouldn't have become the big question that it became now.

Instead, we got someone who's waiting on Jakku for a specific reason - not because she's so poor, but because she feels compelled to wait for her family. We get the vision of little Rey being abandoned. We get all these narrative touches that don't establish her as a simple disadvantaged orphan who gets sucked into a bigger narrative, but as a mysterious abandoned child. TFA doesn't downplay the importance of her background at all. It creates a deliberate mystery out of it. That's why I think it would be incredibly poor storytelling if that's nothing more than misdirection.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Saracene wrote:

CienaRee wrote:If they didn't want Rey's family to be such a big deal or influence her that much than they went about it the wrong way.I don't want to make any judgments yet because we don't have the whole story yet but they could have easily let us know who Rey's parents are or for that matter keep some of the orinal idea about Rey/Kira having a father figure that takes care of her(similary to how Lukes uncle and aunt took care of him or Anakin and his mother)).Instead they not only ilimated that part but they also made her an abaondned girl turned a lonely scavanger while also keeping the mistery of Rey's parents(or just make her a Solo/Skywalker).
if they had just went with someone taking care of Rey while she's on Jakku and  told us point blank who her parents were then we wouldn't have the mess we have now with Rey Solo and Reywalker theories.I want to believe the writers are smarter than this and they didn't make Rey a scacenger on Jakku being on her own  because it sounded so cool(like it happened with Fin  being  a Stormtroope but not acting like one  or Kylo's ashes of his enemies).

@CienaRee

Yeah but I do get an impression that Rey Solo and Reywalker (more so Reywalker) theories is exactly what they wanted, as a smokescreen for the real story. I don't believe for a second that they created the mystery about Rey's parents not knowing what conclusion most of the audience would jump to. I personally dislike this fixation on surprises over just telling a compelling story, but that's what a lot of filmmakers get carried away with.

@Saracene

I have to say, though - if the whole thing is just a smokescreen without much narrative significance, then it's really poor storytelling, IMO.

But I guess we'll see.

I agree with @CienaRee - with a few simple touches Rey might easily have been established as an orphan whose family background is insignificant beyond what we already see in TFA: she's poor, her life is hard, she dreams of something better but hasn't had the chance to leave. Few poor people in this world get the chance to leave, either. Sure, some conspiracy theorists would still have thought she's a Solo or a Skywalker, but her parentage wouldn't have become the big question that it became now.

Instead, we got someone who's waiting on Jakku for a specific reason - not because she's so poor, but because she feels compelled to wait for her family. We get the vision of little Rey being abandoned. We get all these narrative touches that don't establish her as a simple disadvantaged orphan who gets sucked into a bigger narrative, but as a mysterious abandoned child. TFA doesn't downplay the importance of her background at all. It creates a deliberate mystery out of it. That's why I think it would be incredibly poor storytelling if that's nothing more than misdirection.

@Darth Dingbat

ITA, with you Dingbat. In all honesty it pains me to read about young Rey, in Rey's Survival Guide and Before the Awakening,  the writers and LF have really laid on her suffering, starvation, exploitation by Unkar, and loneliness on thick.

Usually the reason for this kind of narrative is because the character is of royal blood and will end up ruling later in life. These early life experiences will ultimately make them a better ruler with greater understanding and perspective of the world/universe.

Darth Dingbat wrote:I agree with @CienaRee - with a few simple touches Rey might easily have been established as an orphan whose family background is insignificant beyond what we already see in TFA: she's poor, her life is hard, she dreams of something better but hasn't had the chance to leave. Few poor people in this world get the chance to leave, either. Sure, some conspiracy theorists would still have thought she's a Solo or a Skywalker, but her parentage wouldn't have become the big question that it became now.

Instead, we got someone who's waiting on Jakku for a specific reason - not because she's so poor, but because she feels compelled to wait for her family. We get the vision of little Rey being abandoned. We get all these narrative touches that don't establish her as a simple disadvantaged orphan who gets sucked into a bigger narrative, but as a mysterious abandoned child. TFA doesn't downplay the importance of her background at all. It creates a deliberate mystery out of it. That's why I think it would be incredibly poor storytelling if that's nothing more than misdirection.

@Darth Dingbat

I think there might be another reason for why Rey is made to wait on Jakku - if she didn't have the anchor of her family, why on earth would she stay in that miserable sithhole when she's so good at so many things? She had no problems grabbing a ship and flying off when she and Finn were under attack. If you want your main character to fly the Millennium Falcon (and I bet that was one of the musts in the story) and be an ace pilot, you then need a reason for why they choose to stay in a miserable life instead of employing their talents to escape. I'm not saying that this is the sole reason, but the story they came up with fits in nicely with this.

IMO, that Rey is abandoned is a dead give-away that she isn't Solo/Skywalker cause otherwise her legacy would have been fully known. Just like Kylo/Ben's. Everyone expected the girl to be related (remember all those "DR is Natalie Portman lookalike" posts, articles, etc) so why would anyone make a big mystery out of something that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER EXPECTED TO HAPPEN?????

So it's really those people who couldn't let it go still Waiting for Godot where Godot is Rey Solo/Skywalker.




A Story of Reywalkers and Soloists

I'm not the world's greatest sympathiser to the Reywalker cause, many of them in the fandom have behaved like entitled divas, but in the interests of fair play, I've put together a few things that examine why Reywalker is the lineage theory that refuses to die.

I had seen this snippet of an interview George Lucas gave to Total Film in 2008 and assumed he never intended for Luke to have a wife and children. Pablo Hidalgo had also said in a twitter exchange that George Lucas didn't accept the EU version of events with Mara Jade being Luke's wife.



Mark Hamill had talked in interviews about George Lucas originally planning out a 12 part Star Wars saga. This dated back to the time of the original Star Wars movie in 1977. Here's an interview Mark Hamill gave just before the release of The Force Awakens along with the quote pertaining to what George Lucas envisaged for Luke at that time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/skywalker-speaks-mark-hamill-on-returning-to-star-wars-20151218

"Would you think about doing a cameo? Handing down Excalibur to the next generation?"

But then, we have this Gene Siskel interview with Mark Hamill from 1983 and the release of Return of The Jedi. Here it's suggested (from 7:54 on the video) that George Lucas planned for Luke to be a father passing on Excalibur to the next generation.



There have been unconfirmed rumours that George Lucas's treatment for VII included a character who would have been Luke Skywalker's child. This obviously conflicts with how he saw things in 2008. If Luke was a father in his treatment, he must have had a pretty big change of heart in a short space of time, as he sold Lucasfilm to Disney in 2012.

Anyway, it's easy to see how the Reywalker seed got planted in some fans minds. When you add that together with the mystery box element and character callbacks in TFA, it became a pretty potent mix.

I think many prior to TFA coming out thought Rey was going to end up being Luke's, without knowing anything about the actual story. Combine that with the line about the saber calling to her after it belonged to Luke and Anakin and voila! Instant Reywalker.

I so think this combination applies to much if the GA, and not those who followed Reygate or Pablo with an open mind. Open mind being key - I've seen so many so dead set on it there's no convincing them otherwise. They see Kylo Ren as a completely unredeemable, throwaway character, so here comes Rey to save the Skywalker legacy.

Rey will save the Skywalker legacy - just not in the way they think she will...

Like everybody else I have theories (mostly about what's going on with the Obi Wan Easter Eggs and him speaking to her 3x in her acid trip), but this writer sums up how I feel, just let Rey be Rey:

No, There Is Another: The Best Possible Backstory For Rey

There’s been endless speculation about Rey’s big secret in Star Wars. In fact, searching for answers about our new favorite scavenger is probably the biggest talking point coming out of The Force Awakens: Why was she left on Jakku? Who are her parents? Why did that lightsaber like her so much? Does Luke know her? Is she Obi Wan’s granddaughter? If so, when did Obi Wan date anyone? Did he ever take them to Dexter Jettster’s diner for a quick dinner before going to see a creepy bubble play?

It’s high time I tossed myself into the sarlacc pit of Rey speculation, because I too have nerdy dork thoughts about all of these nerdy dork things. Not only that, but I am a writer on the internet, and that practically makes me a Knight of Ren. If this makes the front page of Reddit, they give me my cool black mask.

So. Who is Rey? Well, they’ve already told us: she’s no one. And man, I really hope that’s true. I want Rey to be some force sensitive orphan that got dumped in the desert for reasons we’ll never find out until the Force Awakened and tossed her into a hero’s journey.
Why? Because pulp needs mystery. Wolverine was cool because he had no memories, for instance. Star Wars especially needs mystery- in fact, it thrives on it. The galaxy far, far away soars when it makes us accept information while we strap in for a fun ride, and falls on it’s face when it pumps the brakes to explain things to us. Obi Wan is a master of the Force, and because he understands this weird space magic better than we do, he is special and interesting. I don’t want Qui Gon’s explanation about the Force. I want to be a slack jawed farm boy that dares to believe in space telekinesis, just like Luke. I want the mystery so that I can appreciate Hans’ skepticism. When Star Wars explains the Force, it makes Han dumb. How could you not believe in the Force? It’s microscopic organisms that are in your cells. Did you not go to school? Do you not believe in germs, either? Han, do you wash your hands after you use the bathroom? Han, be honest.
Explaining Star Wars is usually the worst part of Star Wars- and for most pulp adventure, to be honest. Darth Vader is a terrifying man in a black mask until you explain that he used to be a totally wizard little boy that grew up to be a creepy man baby that hates sand because it’s so coarse.

Likewise, Disney just released the short list of names to play young Han Solo and I could give a s***. You can tell any stories you want in this cool universe and you want to explain Han Solo? What questions need to be answered about this pitch perfect character? He’s a scoundrel some heroes found in a bar that decides to break good. That’s all I need to go on an adventure with him.

George Miller reminded us that we don’t need to drown ourselves in backstory when he gave us the best movie of 2015 with Mad Max: Fury Road. You got just enough to understand who everyone was and what they wanted and that’s all you needed. Rey is the same to me. We know everything we need about Rey to make her journey fulfilling. I don’t want her to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi, though I’d be fine if we found out she was half Ackbar.

I understand the importance of legacy in Star Wars storytelling, but Kylo Ren has ticked that box. The appeal of Star Wars is that if you make the choice to open your heart and accept an adventure, you too can be off and running on adventures with Poe Dameron and Ello Asty. It’s like that little orange Yoda already told her: She doesn’t need the past. Rey’s future isn’t back on Jakku. It’s ahead of her. I hope they stick to their guns.

snufkin wrote:Like everybody else I have theories (mostly about what's going on with the Obi Wan Easter Eggs and him speaking to her 3x in her acid trip), but this writer sums up how I feel, just let Rey be Rey:

No, There Is Another: The Best Possible Backstory For Rey


So. Who is Rey? Well, they’ve already told us: she’s no one. And man, I really hope that’s true. I want Rey to be some force sensitive orphan that got dumped in the desert for reasons we’ll never find out until the Force Awakened and tossed her into a hero’s journey.

I understand the importance of legacy in Star Wars storytelling, but Kylo Ren has ticked that box. The appeal of Star Wars is that if you make the choice to open your heart and accept an adventure, you too can be off and running on adventures with Poe Dameron and Ello Asty. It’s like that little orange Yoda already told her: She doesn’t need the past. Rey’s future isn’t back on Jakku. It’s ahead of her. I hope they stick to their guns.[/i]

@snufkin

Favorite parts. This is how I feel too.  We've already got a fascinating legacy for Kylo Ren.  Adding some kind of already-known character's legacy story for Rey would be too pat. Like a lazy romance novel where everyone turns out to be descended from the landed gentry.

LadyHa wrote:

snufkin wrote:Like everybody else I have theories (mostly about what's going on with the Obi Wan Easter Eggs and him speaking to her 3x in her acid trip), but this writer sums up how I feel, just let Rey be Rey:

No, There Is Another: The Best Possible Backstory For Rey


So. Who is Rey? Well, they’ve already told us: she’s no one. And man, I really hope that’s true. I want Rey to be some force sensitive orphan that got dumped in the desert for reasons we’ll never find out until the Force Awakened and tossed her into a hero’s journey.

I understand the importance of legacy in Star Wars storytelling, but Kylo Ren has ticked that box. The appeal of Star Wars is that if you make the choice to open your heart and accept an adventure, you too can be off and running on adventures with Poe Dameron and Ello Asty. It’s like that little orange Yoda already told her: She doesn’t need the past. Rey’s future isn’t back on Jakku. It’s ahead of her. I hope they stick to their guns.[/i]

@snufkin

Favorite parts. This is how I feel too.  We've already got a fascinating legacy for Kylo Ren.  Adding some kind of already-known character's legacy story for Rey would be too pat. Like a lazy romance novel where everyone turns out to be descended from the landed gentry.

@LadyHa

I almost think that TFA is like Dickens' Our Mutual Friend with how everybody is interlocked. Including how Rey is like Lizzie Hexam, trawling the Thames as a Mudlark and finding the supposed corpse of John Harmon. She's even got Lizzie's characteristics of being the most moral character whose inherit goodness/strength of character attracts a morally complicated character who's disillusioned with his social caste.

@Mrs Ben Solo
As much as I love Lucas, the man sure is indecisive! In the same year he said he wanted Luke to play a monk-like Obi Wan figure he also said he wanted Luke to be a "father" handing on Excalibar to the next generation. And in 2008 he said there would be no VII-IX because the story (the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker) was over, even though we know Vader wasn't always Luke's father in the OT and there weren't always plans for an extensive three-part backstory, at least not at the time ANH was written.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo
As much as I love Lucas, the man sure is indecisive! In the same year he said he wanted Luke to play a monk-like Obi Wan figure he also said he wanted Luke to be a "father" handing on Excalibar to the next generation. And in 2008 he said there would be no VII-IX because the story (the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker) was over, even though we know Vader wasn't always Luke's father in the OT and there weren't always plans for an extensive three-part backstory, at least not at the time ANH was written.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah,deffinatly you can never say for sure what his plans were because he tends to change his mind all the time.The interesting thing is that back when ESB was in the making Lucas planed for a next trilogy that would be about  the other Yoda mentioned(which wasn't meant to be Leia,at one point they didn't even want Vader to have another child because they believed it would become too complicated with him having not one but two children he knew nothing about) and Luke would have to train him/her.

CienaRee wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo
As much as I love Lucas, the man sure is indecisive! In the same year he said he wanted Luke to play a monk-like Obi Wan figure he also said he wanted Luke to be a "father" handing on Excalibar to the next generation. And in 2008 he said there would be no VII-IX because the story (the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker) was over, even though we know Vader wasn't always Luke's father in the OT and there weren't always plans for an extensive three-part backstory, at least not at the time ANH was written.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah,deffinatly you can never say for sure what his plans were because he tends to change his mind all the time.The interesting thing is that back when ESB was in the making Lucas planed for a next trilogy that would be about  the other Yoda mentioned(which wasn't meant to be Leia,at one point they didn't even want Vader to have another child because they believed it would become too complicated with him having not one but two children he knew nothing about) and Luke would have to train him/her.

@CienaRee

Speaking of inconsistencies, I've never been really comfortable with the "there is another" statement by Yoda being a reference to Leia primarily because it seems an impractical plan....

Luke as briefly trained by Obi-wan and then spent some months (Dagobah's time works differently) being trained by Yoda as well.... and even with this brief training, Luke had a lot of self-doubt and confusion....especially since the force ghosts of Oi-wan and Yoda weren't around most of the time.

Now let us hypothetically imagine Vader killed off Luke or worse still, Luke turned to the dark side and joined the Emperor/Vader to rule the galaxy, who exactly was going to train Leia to hone her force skills after Obi-wan and Yoda's death? At least in the EU, some of the former members of the jedi order were still scattered around the galaxy (and some of the alien species had longer lifespans than humans so were still active) and a couple of them could be brought into the story for this purpose....but in the new story, the only people I can think of are Kanan and Ezra but even they had ther own issues and God only knows what happened to the by the time of ANH.

While I like Leia's character and feel she is just as powerful and capable as Luke, they should find a way to clean up such inconsistencies in the story. I still feel the "other" should be someone else trained somewhere else in the galaxy, whether it is Ezra (since Yoda was in contact with him) or some girl on the other side of the galaxy as envisaged by GL at one point of time.

As for the idea of Rey Skywalker, as much as I love seeing seeing children and grandchildren of old characters re-appear in the ST, I feel Ben Solo is all the Skywalker that is needed and Rey should be someone else's descendant.

This is another one of the reasons, the marketing pre TFA including these cards being the same number and JJ saying that it is on purpose and has a meaning.

In numerology, 74 = 11 and if I go to the tarot that gives me the

11 card of justice



My interpretation would be different of course... With a sword the protagonist hero /justice card brings balance....not because they are related


Tarot and the Journey of the Hero by Hajo Banzhaf is still available through the publisher, Weiser Books, and also by special order from your favorite independent booksellers, such as Fields Book Store in San Francisco.

Banzhaf”s theories and interpretations go well with the established wisdom on the Hero’s Journey, found in works by authors such as Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell.  What makes the book interesting is Banzhaf’s incorporation of references to works by authors which may not be familiar to the average English speaker. Many of the authors whose work he cites are, like Banzhaf, based in Europe and writing in languages other than English, so this book is valuable for the bibliography as well as the content. Some of the works listed are available in English, but many are not, so here is your chance to learn another language or two!

"I almost died all the time. I killed a Jawa and ate it, I was 9"

@spacebaby45678

That is an interesting observation.....as a tarot card reader who occasionally dabbles in numerology as well, I would like to take your interpretation a step further.....normally when you have a number that totals into multiple digits, the actual number will be the sum of the digits.....so in this case,

7 + 4 = 11
1 + 1 = 2

So the tarot card you'd be looking for is Number 2 or the High Priestess.



The High Priestess is about mystical knowledge, psychic abilities, intuition and secret arcane knowledge. But this is not knowledge/traditions available to a larger group but a secret one that is passed from one person to the next.... which makes sense considering Luke...and now Rey could potentially have the opportunity to learn ancient Force related knowledge. Sometimes secrets are revealed to this person through visions and spirits. It is also about self-knowledge- Luke found out about his heritage and his place in the world, and Rey will eventually do the same.

This card also means that a person should trust their instinct i.e. the Force. People associated with this card have important choices to make as indicated by the two pillars (representing the light and the dark) on both sides of the female in the picture. The Moon on the lady's forehead means the person (he or she) will illuminate the path for others.

One thing I really like about this card (in traditional imagery) is the presence of pomegranates in the picture. They represent Persephone, who travels to the underworld, eats this mystic fruit and returns to the surface....but has access to the Underworld. This person has a similar destiny.

I don't think this card means she is Luke's child.... it just means that she is the new hero of the trilogy- and like Luke, she will carry forward the knowledge relating to the Force and she will have difficult choices to make on the way.

panki wrote:@spacebaby45678

That is an interesting observation.....as a tarot card reader who occasionally dabbles in numerology as well, I would like to take your interpretation a step further.....normally when you have a number that totals into multiple digits, the actual number will be the sum of the digits.....so in this case,

7 + 4 = 11
1 + 1 = 2

So the tarot card you'd be looking for is Number 2 or the High Priestess.



The High Priestess is about mystical knowledge, psychic abilities, intuition and secret arcane knowledge. But this is not knowledge/traditions available to a larger group but a secret one that is passed from one person to the next.... which makes sense considering Luke...and now Rey could potentially have the opportunity to learn ancient Force related knowledge. Sometimes secrets are revealed to this person through visions and spirits. It is also about self-knowledge- Luke found out about his heritage and his place in the world, and Rey will eventually do the same.

This card also means that a person should trust their instinct i.e. the Force. People associated with this card have important choices to make as indicated by the two pillars (representing the light and the dark) on both sides of the female in the picture. The Moon on the lady's forehead means the person (he or she) will illuminate the path for others.

One thing I really like about this card (in traditional imagery) is the presence of pomegranates in the picture. They represent Persephone, who travels to the underworld, eats this mystic fruit and returns to the surface....but has access to the Underworld. This person has a similar destiny.

I don't think this card means she is Luke's child.... it just means that she is the new hero of the trilogy- and like Luke, she will carry forward the knowledge relating to the Force and she will have difficult choices to make on the way.

@panki

I always saw ANH Princess Leia as the High Priestess... 1 1 being twins

spacebaby45678 wrote:

panki wrote:@spacebaby45678

That is an interesting observation.....as a tarot card reader who occasionally dabbles in numerology as well, I would like to take your interpretation a  step further.....normally when you have a number that totals into multiple digits, the actual number will be the sum of the digits.....so in this case,

7 + 4 = 11
1 + 1 = 2

So the tarot card you'd be looking for is Number 2 or the High Priestess.



The High Priestess is about mystical knowledge, psychic abilities, intuition and secret arcane knowledge. But this is not knowledge/traditions available to a larger group but a secret one that is passed from one person to the next.... which makes sense considering Luke...and now Rey could potentially have the opportunity to learn ancient Force related knowledge. Sometimes secrets are revealed to this person through visions and spirits. It is also about self-knowledge- Luke found out about his heritage and his place in the world, and Rey will eventually do the same.

This card also means that a person should trust their instinct i.e. the Force. People associated with this card have important choices to make as indicated by the two pillars (representing the light and the dark) on both sides of the female in the picture. The Moon on the lady's forehead means the person (he or she) will illuminate the path for others.

One thing I really like about this card (in traditional imagery) is the presence of pomegranates in the picture. They represent Persephone, who travels to the underworld, eats this mystic fruit and returns to the surface....but has access to the Underworld. This person has a similar destiny.

I don't think this card means she is Luke's child.... it just means that she is the new hero of the trilogy- and like Luke, she will carry forward the knowledge relating to the Force and she will have difficult choices to make on the way.

@panki

I always saw ANH Princess Leia as the High Priestess... 1 1 being twins

@spacebaby45678

Normally the duality represented in the cards is the duality within a single person, not twins....Twins are sometimes depicted in card number VI or the lovers (not literally ).....in the High Priestess card, one pillar represents the darkness or waning moon and the other represents light or waxing moon.....I read that someone is presently working on a Star Wars themed Tarot cards depicted Leia as the High Priestess, but some tarot decks are more recreational than mystical....but let us keep it aside and explore the card anyway....

In Leia's case, we have to remember that in the OT Leia is part of the rebel plot and not the force plot......she has been given access to hidden knowledge i.e. the death star plans....now she can hand it over to the Empire or she can send it to away at a great cost.....so again it is about choices.....and let us not forget that she was a prisoner of the Empire till Luke and Han rescued her....but the pomegranate seeds remained with her i.e. she was touched by darkness with the destruction of Alderaan.

There is the card depicting Leia as the High Priestess but I honestly feel it is more relevant to the rebel plot than the force plot, which dilutes the heavy mysticism normally associated with the High Priestess card.

Thought this was interesting in terms of the discussion more about modern expectations that fans have these days of participating or as the author puts it "meddle" (all the engagement/meddling stuff sounds exhausting to me personally. Kind of like how I don't see book clubs as a fun thing to do because it sounds too much to me like school)

Can Anybody Stop JK Rowling from George Lucas-ing Harry Potter?

I also wonder if the different receptions to Lucas and Rowling is a matter of timing. Star Wars was a major force in the creation of modern geek fandom, but things were very different in the 70s and 80s, and still different in the early aughts of the prequel releases. A fandom culture that was obsessed with “canon” and trivia memorization has given way to a culture dominated by online commentary, fan theories, and original fan fic tales. Fans aren’t just expected to read and love a work, but to write meta essays on the series and then create their own art or stories about what they wish had happened differently. Fans are expected to meddle. In this context, Rowling is just another fan dismayed at the author’s mistakes — she called her decision to marry Hermione to Ron a lazy form of “wish fulfillment” — and offering her own additional “crazy fan theories” about the books.

BastilaBey wrote:I'm not sure how articulate my response will be here, but in my view, it's because there are fundamental disagreements on what type of story is being told in this trilogy. Which is understandable, given that we only have the first piece.

Because Star Wars has long been considered a family saga, and the two previous protagonists were father and son, most people have felt it logical to assume that Rey is Luke's daughter. They see that she grew up in a desert, has incredible force powers, is desperate to find her family, and think wouldn't it be perfect if at the end of TFA she was reunited with her father.

I do not think this trilogy is about a parent and child dynamic. I think that will be part of it - but the family tension is Ben Solo's, not necessarily Rey's. The type of story we seem to be getting for Rey is within the ATU 425 group of fairytales. These are heroine journeys focused on the girl's journey into adulthood, of confronting and accepting the darkness in her as well as the light. And that darkness/impulsivity/fear is, in these stories, typically manifested in a male character who we could consider the shadow and animus. That is clearly Kylo Ren in the ST.

There is another type of fairytale that is in this vein, but flows the other way and has a different message. These are like Bluebeard - or maybe Phantom of the Opera for a gothic parallel - cautionary tales for women to mind their sexuality and to allow a hero to come in at the end and rescue the maiden from the evil monster. The thing about those stories is that they don't fit the trajectory of what TFA gave us. Rey thinks that Kylo Ren is a monster now. So the journey will be reversed, from rejection to acceptance. They played with this idea a little with Finn coming to rescue Rey from SKB, but we saw the trope subverted when she rejected Kylo herself and saved Finn.

All of this rambling is to try and say that I don't think fans are being sexist, or consciously paternalistic or whatever when they say Rey has to be a Skywalker. They're just going on what they consider to be an essential for Star Wars. They don't want Kylo Ren to be this generation's Skywalker because that raises the stakes, and also changes the story. It means that Rey and Ben Solo have to reach an acceptance in each other, and most fans don't consider that a possibility because of what he has done to his father. But it really does look like that's the kind of story we're getting.

@BastilaBey

This.

The Rey/Ben story is a lot like Beauty and the Beast, in that the heroine starts out hating the 'Beast' - or at least seeing him as a monster - but eventually feels sympathy for him, and that sympathy eventually turns to love. We've seen the hatred in TFA, I think we'll see the sympathy in the next film, and the love in the third.

I'm convinced a lot of people just don't want to feel anything other than hate for Kylo, which is a shame as he's such a multi dimensional villain. But having Kylo kill Han is, I think, another red herring; it's there for people to think he's the 'uber villain' now so his change of character will be more of a surprise.