The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Has @panki or anyone else mentioned this yet?

It just occurred to me - if the Bolivian salt flat is indeed in TLJ, could the planet be Seelos? The salt flat is a dead ringer for Seelos, IMO (which is a salt planet).

Darth Dingbat wrote:Has @panki or anyone else mentioned this yet?

It just occurred to me - if the Bolivian salt flat is indeed in TLJ, could the planet be Seelos? The salt flat is a dead ringer for Seelos, IMO (which is  a salt planet).

@Darth Dingbat

That is brilliant! I never thought of it but the place could easily be Seelos.....which means we might be getting some flashback relating to the clone troopers who retired there (highly unlikely they survived into the ST) or they left some important information behind which one of the ST characters might require.

Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

@ISeeAnIsland

My body is ready for the DRAMA

Seriously, though. I think TLJ is going to be very different to what we're used to see in Star Wars. It'll be very intense and dramatic, and I can't wait.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

@ISeeAnIsland

Rian Johnson did get a pretty good performance out of Bruce Willis in Looper to the extent that you saw the actor and not the celebrity/meme he'd turned into.

Piper Maru wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

@ISeeAnIsland

My body is ready for the DRAMA

Seriously, though. I think TLJ is going to be very different to what we're used to see in Star Wars. It'll be very intense and dramatic, and I can't wait.

@Piper Maru

I really can't wait.It's going to be very interesting to see Rian's vision of SW and how he handles an iconic character like Luke.
How much do you want to bet that that the Reywalkers are going crazy thinking that the reason Mark might be in the run for an Oscar is because of Luke tragically lossing his baby girl and wife?

CienaRee wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

@ISeeAnIsland

My body is ready for the DRAMA

Seriously, though. I think TLJ is going to be very different to what we're used to see in Star Wars. It'll be very intense and dramatic, and I can't wait.

@Piper Maru

I really can't wait.It's going to be very interesting to see Rian's vision of SW and how he handles an iconic character like Luke.
How much do you want to bet that that the Reywalkers are going crazy thinking that the reason Mark might be in the run for an Oscar is because of Luke tragically lossing his baby girl and wife?

@CienaRee

Right? Whereas I read that, and my brain went to, "I bet the rumors are true that Luke is a bit nuts, and we're going to see some great dramatic tension between Mark, Adam, and Daisy."

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

CienaRee wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Interesting new article in the NY Daily News with JJ about Mark's role/performance in TLJ, especially given that Star Wars movies aren't exactly known for winning acting awards, even when the acting is very good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/star-wars-director-hamill-win-oscar-skywalker-role-article-1.2981634

NY Daily News wrote: Forget the force — Luke needs an Oscar.

“Star Wars” filmmaker J.J. Abrams doesn't know who's going to win the Academy Award for best actor on Sunday, but he predicts Mark Hamill will be in the running next year after “The Last Jedi” hits theaters.

“I think we are all going to be very upset if he does not win an Oscar, and no one more upset than Mark,” he told us at the Oscar Wilde Awards in L.A., which supports the U.S. Ireland Alliance.

@ISeeAnIsland

My body is ready for the DRAMA

Seriously, though. I think TLJ is going to be very different to what we're used to see in Star Wars. It'll be very intense and dramatic, and I can't wait.

@Piper Maru

I really can't wait.It's going to be very interesting to see Rian's vision of SW and how he handles an iconic character like Luke.
How much do you want to bet that that the Reywalkers are going crazy thinking that the reason Mark might be in the run for an Oscar is because of Luke tragically lossing his baby girl and wife?

@CienaRee

Right? Whereas I read that, and my brain went to, "I bet the rumors are true that Luke is a bit nuts, and we're going to see some great dramatic tension between Mark, Adam, and Daisy."

@ISeeAnIsland

That's exactly where my mind went too with this article. I can't wait.

That's interesting.
The only actor who has been nominated until now for SW role was Sir Alec Guinness.

And I still think that the Academy should have given a nod to Harrison in TFA. He was excellent.

Oohh...I really like what JJ is implying in that article...this gives me more hope we're getting an emotionally complex Luke. I'm sure Mark will be amazing!

Darth_Awakened wrote:That's interesting.
The only actor who has been nominated until now for SW role was Sir Alec Guinness.

And I still think that the Academy should have given a nod to Harrison in TFA. He was excellent.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree--I thought that Harrison deserved a nod.

If Kylo Ren undergoes the type of character arc that we're expecting, I would think that there's a chance for Adam to get a nod at some point, too.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:That's interesting.
The only actor who has been nominated until now for SW role was Sir Alec Guinness.

And I still think that the Academy should have given a nod to Harrison in TFA. He was excellent.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree--I thought that Harrison deserved a nod.

If Kylo Ren undergoes the type of character arc that we're expecting, I would think that there's a chance for Adam to get a nod at some point, too.

@ISeeAnIsland

Definitely. However the Academy is weird...

Darth_Awakened wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:That's interesting.
The only actor who has been nominated until now for SW role was Sir Alec Guinness.

And I still think that the Academy should have given a nod to Harrison in TFA. He was excellent.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree--I thought that Harrison deserved a nod.

If Kylo Ren undergoes the type of character arc that we're expecting, I would think that there's a chance for Adam to get a nod at some point, too.

@ISeeAnIsland

Definitely. However the Academy is weird...

@Darth_Awakened

I agree. I think the movie would need to be The Dark Knight quality and the performance at Heath Ledger level for that to happen.  I believe AD is absolutely capable of that level, but the Academy is very stingy about awarding acting in tentpole movies.  A lot of people thought that The Dark Knight should have been nominated for Best Picture, and if I'm not mistaken, that movie was part of the reason that the number of Best Picture nominee slots were expanded to up to 10 as opposed to just 5.  Heath Ledger was extraordinary and the movie was top notch so the "tentpole" bias was overcome. 

I think TLJ will not only have tentpole bias going against it, but in addition, under GL's reign I believe that the movies got a reputation for less than stellar acting because GL is a poor actors' director.  I think that there might have been a notion that people like Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher and Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness succeeded in spite of GL.  Alec Guinness would have been a nostalgia vote too. 

OTOH, there is a new creative team onboard. AD, HF, DR and JB received real acting praise from a lot of critics, particularly AD, with him getting a lot of that "career-making" kind of wording.  Without question, IMO, the overall quality of TFA's acting was better than any other SW movie.  If Rian keeps that up with good actors' direction and breaks new ground like Nolan did in The Dark Knight, who knows?  Maybe AD could get a nod ... but I bet you anything he won't win.  I have a feeling that they are going to make him wait for his Oscar like Leo and some others.

Oh yeah there's definitely a fair whack of snobbery from award bodies toward blockbuster films - especially sci-fi ones.  They're happy to give them craft nods and even wins but the big categories forget about it.  They do have their moments (not very often mind) when they do surprise us all by rewarding a big budget blockbuster movie - for example The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King when it won all 11 of it's Oscar nominations. And while that was wonderful to behold it didn't get a single nod for acting - in fact the only acting Oscar nomination in the entire trilogy was Sir Ian McKellen for Fellowship.

I'd love it if MH, AD or DR got an acting nomination for TLJ, but would also know the chances of winning would be totally remote.

It is about time that blockbuster movies get recognition that they deserve, because there can be some brilliant performances in them, or excellent direction, writing, cinematography etc and not just the craft elements such as visual effects, sound and music.

I'm a total cynic, a lot of these awards are a popularity contest, including lobbying and campaigning by the studios/potential nominees. It's always worth looking at the list of people who never got an award for anything. Or like Peter O' Toole and Myrna Loy, they got an honorary one at the end of their lives.

So here's a thought in general about things being described as more complex/darker. The standard genre SW operates in is the space opera or fantasy. And to date it's been a pretty straight forward black and white morality. @Armadeus bringing up the Western genre reminded me of a quote about a writer who's credited with created the first modernist and complex Western, Walter Van Tilburg Clark's The Oxbow Incident. Tilburg is one of the writers for the region of the Sierra Nevada I'm from and I used to work with somebody (elderly gentleman who was a Hell of an interesting character/storyteller) who was friends with him. The Oxbow Incident was Van Tillburg Clark's first novel and was eventually made into a film with Henry Fonda and Anthony Quinn (William Wellman directed).



(this is a soundstage, but there is an actual place called Oxbow which inspired the name. It's now a park that sits on banks of the Truckee River)

Great Westerns, like all genre films worth their salt, are meticulously structured, and they feature a pretty short list of archetypal characters. It's accepted wisdom that "the lone gunman" and "the stranger with a secret" belong to the Old West, but such conceits are often co-opted to drive other kinds of pictures. Taxi Driver (1976) and Star Wars (1977), for instance, are direct descendants of John Ford's masterpiece, The Searchers (1956), and scores of tough-cop movies feature nothing more than gunslingers who prowl the town cleaning up corruption, just like the mustached sheriff did all those years ago. You can sense the frontier in them, even if it's sometimes drenched in neon. William Wellman's claustrophobic Western, The Ox-Bow Incident (1943), on the other hand, actually seems to have inspired Sidney Lumet's courtroom drama, 12 Angry Men (1957)

It takes the genre of the Western to tell a more complex story. Most of the characters operate on a very black and white moral code, but the truth is more complicated. There are are characters who believe themselves to be doing the right thing who go wrong and meanwhile there are more dodgy characters who end up being wronged.  It's credited as being the first novel to take the Western genre and elevate it into something more complicated and a true work of art/literature. The great literary critic Clifton Fadiman wrote a review stating that "Clark had done for the Western what Dasheill Hammett did for the detective story, elevating it into the realm of art and literature." What I'd love to see for TLJ is something similar. Of course, a lot of people love the black hat/white hat type of Westerns (think Zane Grey), so there will likely be outcry from those quarters about how certain characters "should" behave if it doesn't follow that type of morality.

Frankly the only ones who have a chance of getting an award from the Academy are Oscar Isaac or Adam Driver. John Boyega and Daisy Ridley are too new in the business, plus they're British/not living in the US/not big in Hollywood itself.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:Frankly the only ones who have a chance of getting an award from the Academy are Oscar Isaac or Adam Driver. John Boyega and Daisy Ridley are too new in the business, plus they're British/not living in the US/not big in Hollywood itself.

@Rimfaxe96

Well, British actors can have a fair chance at the Oscars. But yeah, John and Daisy are too new for now. We'll have to wait around 10 years before they break the ice. I think Domhnall might get nominated one of these days, though.

Irina de France wrote:Well, British actors can have a fair chance at the Oscars.

@Irina de France

Yes, but only if they get attention from Hollywood's film industry hub. For example movies like Hacksaw Ridge or La La Land had little international impact (or at least here in Germany they're completely unknown; Hacksaw Ridge was played in a handful of theaters only while La La Land is played a little more but barely given screentime) and still got awards. I doubt a purely Britain-based movie would even get a nomination (although I admit I don't really keep track of these things, the only reason I read about the Oscars today was because half of my Facebook Star Wars group is going crazy over Jungle Book winning an award for visual effects instead of Rogue One ).

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Irina de France wrote:Well, British actors can have a fair chance at the Oscars.

@Irina de France

Yes, but only if they get attention from Hollywood's film industry hub. For example movies like Hacksaw Ridge or La La Land had little international impact (or at least here in Germany they're completely unknown; Hacksaw Ridge was played in a handful of theaters only while La La Land is played a little more but barely given screentime) and still got awards. I doubt a purely Britain-based movie would even get a nomination (although I admit I don't really keep track of these things, the only reason I read about the Oscars today was because half of my Facebook Star Wars group is going crazy over Jungle Book winning an award for visual effects instead of Rogue One ).

@Rimfaxe96

That's not really true. Plenty of British, Irish and Australian based movies receive nominations. The Full Monty. The King's Speech. My Left Foot. In the Name of the Father. Mike Leigh movies like Secrets and Lies. Atonement. A ton of period pieces. I think 12 Years a Slave was a largely British production. And then the acting noms ... Tom Hardy, Keira Knightley, Christan Bale, Carey Mulligan, Kate Winslet, Michael Fassbender, Andrew Garfield, Sally Hawkins, Geoffrey Rush, Cate Blanchett, Colin Firth, Helena Bonham-Carter, Hugh Jackman, etc.. Mark Rylance just won last year and he was previously pretty obscure. This is not the case for all international actors for sure, but seriously, if Hollywood and particularly the awards circuit was cut off from actors from the UK, Ireland, Australia and South Africa (Charlize Theron), they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. British/Irish/Australian actors tend to be well-trained. A lot of American actors are not. Training brings versality and a part centered viewpoint a lot of American actors don't have. That's why someone like Adam Driver, who is trained, reminds me so much of a British actor. The dude looks at parts the way Jeremy Irons does, not the way Tom Cruise. Nothing against Tom Cruise, but I think that there are certain places he won't go, but people like Fassbender and Driver might.

SoloSideCousin wrote:That's not really true. Plenty of British, Irish and Australian based movies receive nominations. The Full Monty. The King's Speech. My Left Foot. In the Name of the Father. Mike Leigh movies like Secrets and Lies. Atonement. A ton of period pieces. I think 12 Years a Slave was a largely British production. And then the acting noms ... Tom Hardy, Keira Knightley, Christan Bale, Carey Mulligan, Kate Winslet, Michael Fassbender, Andrew Garfield, Sally Hawkins, Geoffrey Rush, Cate Blanchett, Colin Firth, Helena Bonham-Carter, Hugh Jackman, etc.. Mark Rylance just won last year and he was previously pretty obscure. This is not the case for all international actors for sure, but seriously, if Hollywood and particularly the awards circuit was cut off from actors from the UK, Ireland, Australia and South Africa (Charlize Theron), they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. British/Irish/Australian actors tend to be well-trained. A lot of American actors are not. Training brings versality and a part centered viewpoint a lot of American actors don't have. That's why someone like Adam Driver, who is trained, reminds me so much of a British actor. The dude looks at parts the way Jeremy Irons does, not the way Tom Cruise. Nothing against Tom Cruise, but I think that there are certain places he won't go, but people like Fassbender and Driver might.

@SoloSideCousin

Fair enough. I'm probably just a little pessimistic/jaded by Germany's pretty much dead film industry.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:That's not really true. Plenty of British, Irish and Australian based movies receive nominations. The Full Monty. The King's Speech. My Left Foot. In the Name of the Father. Mike Leigh movies like Secrets and Lies. Atonement. A ton of period pieces. I think 12 Years a Slave was a largely British production. And then the acting noms ... Tom Hardy, Keira Knightley, Christan Bale, Carey Mulligan, Kate Winslet, Michael Fassbender, Andrew Garfield, Sally Hawkins, Geoffrey Rush, Cate Blanchett, Colin Firth, Helena Bonham-Carter, Hugh Jackman, etc.. Mark Rylance just won last year and he was previously pretty obscure. This is not the case for all international actors for sure, but seriously, if Hollywood and particularly the awards circuit was cut off from actors from the UK, Ireland, Australia and South Africa (Charlize Theron), they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. British/Irish/Australian actors tend to be well-trained. A lot of American actors are not. Training brings versality and a part centered viewpoint a lot of American actors don't have. That's why someone like Adam Driver, who is trained, reminds me so much of a British actor. The dude looks at parts the way Jeremy Irons does, not the way Tom Cruise. Nothing against Tom Cruise, but I think that there are certain places he won't go, but people like Fassbender and Driver might.

@SoloSideCousin

Fair enough. I'm probably just a little pessimistic/jaded by Germany's pretty much dead film industry.

@Rimfaxe96

The German film industry definitely doesn't get the attention it deserves nowadays which is huge shame because every German film I've seen has been top-notch. I swear that Downfall is one of the best movies I have seen *ever in my life.* The White Ribbon was outstanding and creepy as hell. Unfortunately, the only German film showing in my city right now is Toni Erdmann. Granted I live in medium sized city and not a NYC, but we do pretty well indie and foreign film wise because we have several independent theatres and even a few indie/foreign multiplexes and even with that we don't get enough German films.

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:That's not really true. Plenty of British, Irish and Australian based movies receive nominations. The Full Monty. The King's Speech. My Left Foot. In the Name of the Father. Mike Leigh movies like Secrets and Lies. Atonement. A ton of period pieces. I think 12 Years a Slave was a largely British production. And then the acting noms ... Tom Hardy, Keira Knightley, Christan Bale, Carey Mulligan, Kate Winslet, Michael Fassbender, Andrew Garfield, Sally Hawkins, Geoffrey Rush, Cate Blanchett, Colin Firth, Helena Bonham-Carter, Hugh Jackman, etc.. Mark Rylance just won last year and he was previously pretty obscure. This is not the case for all international actors for sure, but seriously, if Hollywood and particularly the awards circuit was cut off from actors from the UK, Ireland, Australia and South Africa (Charlize Theron), they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. British/Irish/Australian actors tend to be well-trained. A lot of American actors are not. Training brings versality and a part centered viewpoint a lot of American actors don't have. That's why someone like Adam Driver, who is trained, reminds me so much of a British actor. The dude looks at parts the way Jeremy Irons does, not the way Tom Cruise. Nothing against Tom Cruise, but I think that there are certain places he won't go, but people like Fassbender and Driver might.

@SoloSideCousin

Fair enough. I'm probably just a little pessimistic/jaded by Germany's pretty much dead film industry.

@Rimfaxe96

That's a shame. I've seen a few German films and I've loved every one I've seen.

I found an article about a concept artist named Carlos Huante who posted some artwork on Instagram which was intended for two Star Wars games that didn't happen....and they are a darker version of the SW we know in the PT and OT. There are images of stormtroopers fighting strange alien creatures, some characters who could be a younger version of the KOR and even a Snoke-like character. Since TLJ is flashback heavy, I wonder if some of these works will influence the movie (concept artwork is often re-used for other stories)






(a younger version of the KOR?)

(if you look carefully, you can see a warrior with a bowl shaped hat in the picture like in Rey's vision)

(Snoke?)

http://www.gamezone.com/news/concept-art-of-bizarre-untitled-dead-space-like-star-wars-game-surfaces-online-3450442

Not SW specific, but worth sharing because of the Left to Right shots and editing used in the Force Back. Examples of how it's used as tracking shots in various films

Nice review of Bloodline from a comics website that lays out the future of exploring Space Politics in the ST, especially in comparison to the clunky execution in the PT:

Star Wars: Bloodline reveals the hidden history of Leia Organa and the First Order

The Phantom Menace is the most overtly political Star Wars film, and it’s also the one that gets it horribly wrong. The opening crawl reads with the dusty indifference of a bad history book. Throughout the film, there no sense of a grand Galactic Senate; no political daggers shining in the dark. It’s a tepid, impenetrable wheeze, delivered with the stumbling indifference of a sixth grader sniffing his way through a presentation on the industrial revolution. Bloodline shows us what could have been.

It’s sharp, direct, unpredictable. By putting Leia in a position of political influence, it helps rationalise all the stuff that’s happened to her. She’s a war hero, but she doesn't have the comfort of being a Jedi recluse. She has a role to play, as the very public face of the Populists, an unofficial faction of the Galactic Senate. And while Han’s away managing a racing championship, Leia is bound by duty, unable to live the life she wants. It’s a different kind of sacrifice. The central political schism of the book is believable without being boring, and it’s also a smart reminder, as if you needed one, of how malignant political forces can rise without people even noticing. It’s a decent explanation of the First Order, with obvious parallels to historical events that are more fulfilling than simplistic analogy.