The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

@Irina de France Hahaha! I agree, though now I'm imaging Episode IX where Poe is the leader of the Resistance and they have to introduce a Human Resources Director who keeps telling him he can't keep flirting with everybody now that he's management.

In all seriousness, TLJ was 100% my first comments on the topic, that I thought Rey should just hook up with Kylo Ren and then change her cell phone number. That's exactly what she did!

Oh Poe definitely shot up in appeal to me in this movie. That's the opposite of how some people feel, it seems, but adding real flaws with real consequences to his character did wonders for me! Mostly it made him feel like an actual character so I no longer have to question why he's even mentioned in the same league as Rey, Finn, and Kylo.

Whups DP thanks to my janky Wi-Fi - I'll agree that even if he stuck his foot in his mouth with Rey, Ben was 100% dead on in telling her exactly what she needed to hear in regards to her parents. Like I've seen people call it abusive or gaslighting, but the whole thing between the two of them is that they're completely honest with each other. Like you don't think her telling him "you had somebody who loved you, gave a damn about you, and you threw it away" isn't going to eat away at him in IX?

ZioRen wrote:Oh Poe definitely shot up in appeal to me in this movie. That's the opposite of how some people feel, it seems, but adding real flaws with real consequences to his character did wonders for me! Mostly it made him feel like an actual character so I no longer have to question why he's even mentioned in the same league as Rey, Finn, and Kylo.

@ZioRen

I actually liked Poe as well. He also went through a learning experience himself, from being a 'hot-headed, kill-everything fly boy' to a prudent leader. Now that Carrie's gone, we will need a new respectable leader for the Resistance who's not a random. Poe really fills in that position nicely after his development in TLJ.

The Poe storyline, I kept thinking.....Dude dial it back a little. I enjoy all the new characters.

Did the mirrors and snapping in the vagina (I mean cave) remind anyone of Meshes of the Afternoon?

Birdwoman wrote:Just got back from seeing the movie for the first time. I am still digesting everything so I will probably have more to say later.
1. I am so glad that Smoke was killed. He is such an evil, POS.
2. Through failure you learn more about yourself than having never failed.
3. Luke Skywalkers story arc was beautiful.
4. This movie was darker than ESB
5. Really enjoyed the force bond stuff.
6. Kylo does not make a good dictator.
7. At the end of the movie, when Kylo is holding the dice, sees Rey through the force vision and then the dice disappear. This quote came to my mind: 'You can't deny the truth that is your family.'

@Birdwoman

I now understand why Kylo was so mad a LST for that quote....his family (Luke at least) tried to kill him.

@reylo1992

Exactly how I feel! I hope this will be addressed because I actually dislike Rey now.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kylo Men wrote:Rey needed to hear it. Kylo also told her that she latches on to any father figure she can find, which she needed to hear. What's the point of being/having an a**hole boyfriend if he isn't going to tell you things you need to hear sometimes? You can get "Your special is the most special special that's ever made me feel special" from any ..... random fugitive stormtrooper. Finn really is the worst person in this trilogy.

@Kylo Men
Poe is the worst person in this trilogy. It is known.

@FrolickingFizzgig

It's a tough call. Finn deserts his comrades, gets taken in by new comrades who effectively save his life, nurse him back to health, and there he is again ready to leave his new friends for dead when the going gets tough.

Never mind the emergency brake that his plotline becomes.

Kylo Men wrote:Rey needed to hear it. Kylo also told her that she latches on to any father figure she can find, which she needed to hear. What's the point of being/having an a**hole boyfriend if he isn't going to tell you things you need to hear sometimes? You can get "Your special is the most special special that's ever made me feel special" from any ..... random fugitive stormtrooper. Finn really is the worst person in this trilogy.

@Kylo Men

For the record, and to clarify, Kylo does need to be nicer.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I'm simultaneously amused and baffled that "Rey and Kylo are mean to each other" has become an issue. Kylo was harsh with her because he was trying to appeal to her darkness. He wanted her to join him. He's an extremely honest person and genuinely believed his vision was the truth. He thought what he saw would get him what he wanted, her at his side. It was honest selfishness, but selfishness nonetheless.

The attempts to transform Rey into some kind of victim are astonishing to me. This is a young woman who is not afraid to call Kylo a monster. She is not afraid to attempt to kill him. She isn't under some thrall or being unknowingly manipulated. They are equally harsh with each other and it's great. Writing that goes soft on this front is lame. Something I love about dynamics like this is the equality. Without equality there can be no balance, one of the reasons many saw Kylo as Rey's love-interest or other half long before TLJ. He was very honest with her in TFA as well. They go back-and-forth naturally and hold nothing back from each other. It's pure poetry. Two people who see the best and worst in each other and who are only at their strongest united.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Especially loved the bolded FrolickingFizzgig!
I think the selfishness fits with Kylo and Rey being in the middle of their journey together..
Rey is tough no doubt, but I think Kylo was unnecessarily cruel, about something he knew was at the heart of what she struggles with. RJ described it best - Kylo thought he could use it to bring her to his side. But - she didn't want what he wanted - so he yelled at her about her still hanging on to it and was brutal in how he phrased it.
It's all part of his journey - he is not the prince charming yet I think we'll be seeing a big contrast with this offer and an offer in the Black Diamond (the final chapter). In TFA Kylo's offer was physical brute force and totally tone deaf. In TLJ it was psychological brute force.. and partially attuned to Rey's current state.. but still the wrong tone - all IMHO of course

She too tried to use his vulnerability to bring him back to the light.. but I don't see any arrogance in her actions or her motives (maybe that is a discussion for a Rey thread).
She was thinking of the resistance and he was thinking of defeating snoke and destroying the past - skywalker, the resistance, sith, jedi all of it.
They were at cross purposes here in the middle chapter - but that' s okay - they care for each other, they've established a connection, they've both gotten a taste of how much they can achieve while supporting each other - they are further along the path but they are not there yet.

Having just come out of watching the movie a second time, I found I was less concerned that there was real caring between them - not that I was very concerned the first time. lol. but I saw even more positives the second time.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Lily Snape

FWIW, I think they intentionally set Poe up to look like a (mansplaining) a**, and I think it was a really bold choice. Remember leading up to TLJ, we were speculating on Poe taking unnecessary risks, doing morally questionable things...and that's exactly what we got. We had a lot of hints that the Resistance would be less likable ("good people making bad choices") in TLJ, and I think Poe was meant to be the representation of this.

It'll be interesting to see if his leadership style matures in IX (as they seemed to be hinting at at the end of TLJ when Leia essentially handed him the keys to the Resistance), or if his impulsive style ends up putting the remaining members of the Resistance in danger. It could set up an interesting situation for Rey, given that this will be her first extended exposure to actually being part of the Resistance.

@ISeeAnIsland

Totally agree-- I think the guess here was that Poe's recklessness would get him in trouble, and that maybe Holdo would be more of a rule-follower.  The gender/generation thing made it more interesting, though-- not just with Holdo, but with hanging up on Leia.  

-- On a related note:  So, Rian said that all of the major characters would be challenged by something very hard for them-- or something like that.  Anyone want to make a list of the main challenges thrown at the various characters?  I'll start.

Luke:  failure and the weight of his own legend.

Finn:   fear, wanting to flee and go somewhere safe, and the challenge of belonging and taking the risks that go with it.

Rey:  the truth about her parents, abandonment issues with Luke.

Kylo:  where do I start?  Facing up to his abuser, and Rey triggering his abandonment issues and control freak issues.  Not to mention that he tries in the book anyway to be master of his emotions, epic fail, and here he is falling in love.

Poe:  his own recklessness and probably a bit of his own ego, because he knows he's good and is moving up the ranks.

I'm struggling with Rose and Leia.

Aaaaand the main challenge for Snoke is not having his Padawan  chop him in half like a Christmas ham.  

Kylo Men wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kylo Men wrote:Rey needed to hear it. Kylo also told her that she latches on to any father figure she can find, which she needed to hear. What's the point of being/having an a**hole boyfriend if he isn't going to tell you things you need to hear sometimes? You can get "Your special is the most special special that's ever made me feel special" from any ..... random fugitive stormtrooper. Finn really is the worst person in this trilogy.

@Kylo Men
Poe is the worst person in this trilogy. It is known.

@FrolickingFizzgig

It's a tough call. Finn deserts his comrades, gets taken in by new comrades who effectively save his life, nurse him back to health, and there he is again ready to leave his new friends for dead when the going gets tough.

Never mind the emergency brake that his plotline becomes.

@Kylo Men

But to his credit, the reason Finn got injured was saving his friend and (much less important to him) helping the Resistance blow up SKB.  Once he got the answer from Poe that Rey was safe, he was out of there, which was his original plan.  The spine injury and Bacta suit were a pretty major detour.  


And I'll agree with all the Poe fans who were happy that he grew from this experience.  I'm glad he had more to do in this movie as well.

Lily Snape wrote:

Totally agree-- I think the guess here was that Poe's recklessness would get him in trouble, and that maybe Holdo would be more of a rule-follower.  The gender/generation thing made it more interesting, though-- not just with Holdo, but with hanging up on Leia.  

-- On a related note:  So, Rian said that all of the major characters would be challenged by something very hard for them-- or something like that.  Anyone want to make a list of the main challenges thrown at the various characters?  I'll start.

Luke:  failure and the weight of his own legend.

Finn:   fear, wanting to flee and go somewhere safe, and the challenge of belonging and taking the risks that go with it.

Rey:  the truth about her parents, abandonment issues with Luke.

Kylo:  where do I start?  Facing up to his abuser, and Rey triggering his abandonment issues and control freak issues.  Not to mention that he tries in the book anyway to be master of his emotions, epic fail, and here he is falling in love.

Poe:  his own recklessness and probably a bit of his own ego, because he knows he's good and is moving up the ranks.

I'm struggling with Rose and Leia.

Aaaaand the main challenge for Snoke is not having his Padawan  chop him in half like a Christmas ham.  

@Lily Snape

Oh yay, I like this. Absolutely agree with you on the above, but I'll try and find something different.

Luke: Regret and self-punishment. Also becoming a teacher a second time around after failing Ben.

Finn: Associating himself in relation to the FO as a 'traitor' to making a choice and proudly declaring himself 'rebel scum'.
Also, what Rose said resonated with him. He thought the fight was about trying to kill what you hate (which honestly was his perception after being brainwashed by the FO as a stormtrooper). But at the end, he found individuality and love and commitment to a cause.

Rey: Loneliness. How to listen and forgive enemies. To realise that there are many sides to a person. I think after being alone in the desert all this time, Rey's challenges in TLJ was to learn of the complexities of the human emotions, not only of herself but of others. Ben propelled this character development almost all by himself.

Kylo: Also loneliness. Seeking out his own path and purpose, not as told by Snoke. Accepting compassion and love, something he's shut out of his life for so long.

Poe: From being a his idea of a sacrificing, selfless, reckless hero to becoming a prudent leader with larger responsibilities than his own life. Thinking of the future and not just the moment.

Rose: How to make the most of being put in an extraordinary position.

Leia: How to retain hope when basically all hope is lost. Also, using the Force when needs be.

Kylo Men wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kylo Men wrote:Rey needed to hear it. Kylo also told her that she latches on to any father figure she can find, which she needed to hear. What's the point of being/having an a**hole boyfriend if he isn't going to tell you things you need to hear sometimes? You can get "Your special is the most special special that's ever made me feel special" from any ..... random fugitive stormtrooper. Finn really is the worst person in this trilogy.

@Kylo Men
Poe is the worst person in this trilogy. It is known.

@FrolickingFizzgig

It's a tough call. Finn deserts his comrades, gets taken in by new comrades who effectively save his life, nurse him back to health, and there he is again ready to leave his new friends for dead when the going gets tough.

Never mind the emergency brake that his plotline becomes.

@Kylo Men

Actually I think Finn was being human then. If anyone creeped me out there it was Rose...she was happily tasering anyone who wanted to get into a lifeboat as a 'traitor' when they were probably just scared. As I've said, I wonder if Rose will ever find out that her precious Resistance buy their weapons from the same source as the FO.

Now I've seen the movie a second time, I can no longer couch all I say with - well I've only seen it once but....
LOL!
Still here are a few more random thoughts observations on the movie now I've seen it a second time: Not in chronological order.. just in the order they spill out of my head

-For me, it is clearer than ever that we are rooting for Kylo, Rey and the resistance.. Not the first order. while there was ambiguity about whether the Resistance was pure goodness, I didn't see any ambiguity about whether the FO was all bad. The opening crawl identifies that they are expanding out into the galaxy with their 'merciless legions' - and the resistance is fighting this 'tyranny' - to me that was not ambiguous language.. There was also many references to the resistance being hope, and Holdo died to 'protect the light' - that legend Holdo. Love her. Then, we also have the references to freedom and slavery mixed in throughout..
Does that mean Kylo can't change what the FO is in IX? Who can say.. anything is possible. I would only suggest that to me, there is no hint that this is possible based on the content of TLJ. A split of the FO with a stormtrooper rebellion - possibly.
When Kylo killed snoke, and started his speech to Rey - about just killing everything - skywalker, the sith, the jedi, the rebellion.. but he didn't say about killing the first order. Which is curious given it was part of his past.. seems he was clear in wanting to hang on to that bit
Edited to add: I forgot. I think we are also supposed to be rooting for the jedi order to return. (this was surprising to me!).
Snoke says in the first throne room scene: "Skywalker lives!! The seed of the jedi order lives. As long as it does, hope lives in the galaxy."
And... Rey says to Luke "Rey: There’s no light in Kylo Ren, he’s only getting stronger, the FO will control all major systems in weeks. We need your help we need the jedi order back. We need luke skywalker." There's much more about this later in the movie.. but you get my drift
I'm guessing 'jedi' is going to be defined differently moving forward - but it is something we are supposed to root for IMHO.

-Snoke remarking on Rey:  'such spunk'?! rofl. you can tell he's really old

-Rey reaching for her lightsaber after Kylo's offer? I saw her reaching out her hand - a call back to the earlier hand touching scene, not as a trick. I think she was considering joining him. There was nothing in her expressions to indicated she had turned on him, even after she had tried to call the light saber.
Why did she want the lightsaber? well.. it's hers.. and she isn't going to say yes to him, he hasn't turned sides and she can't be certain he won't try to turn her more forcefully I think (whether or not we agree with that is another question. I'm not settled on an answer as yet) it's just too early for there to be full trust there. That will come in IX.

-When Rey is kneeling in front of Kylo, and Snoke tells him to kill her - it's like Snoke is narrating what is in Kylo's head!
'I see him turning the saber to strike true. And now, foolish child. He ignites it, and kills his true enemy'!
When Snoke says he is turning the saber - Kylo is turning his saber in his right hand in front of Rey.. I didn't notice it first time because I was looking at his left hand turn the legacy saber with the force. Very cool. It's I guess a classic way to beat a lie detector test
[The audience literally clapped at this one moment. They are totally on Kylo's side I think  so glad we got bad a** Kylo! ]

-For anyone needing encouragement to stay strong for IX: When Kylo kills Snoke - it is the force theme that rises up loud and proud- It literally soars.
It's not a dark side theme and.. it's not the darth vader theme!! Now that is really really telling..

-When Kylo is poised to kill Leia - and he pulls back - there is a tiny suggestion in his expres​sion(like much in this movie!), that he is happy he didn't do it.
We see Leia react with relief, and then boom. the wingmen finish it.
We then see Kylo briefly looking on in sadness.
To me - it seems Leia knew Kylo didn't shoot. he was glad he didn't.. I think!
Does he think Leia is dead? I think for a moment there while she is floating he knows he has lost her.
but because they sense each other, when she returns using the force I think he would have known she was not dead. People with the force seem to sense when someone has passed on..

-One thing I didn't pick up first time due to being distracted by Leia doing a witch impression with her flying [I give it a hall pass no question]. is that she had Rey's beacon with her when she was blown out of the bridge into space. When she wakes in space - and begins making her way back to the ship - she is choosing to live and keep fighting. She is also IMHO choosing to not cut off Rey and (potentially) Luke from the resistance. If Leia had not come back, that beacon would be floating through space - and they'd be cut off. Wow.

-I loved the Holdo/Leia relationship - I was wrong about Holdo - she really was the angel to go with that halo of hers. I loved that we saw two strong women with a positive connection kicking butt, very touching.

-The quick switches between scenes at times was a little more irritating than my first viewing. But.. this is really a small complaint. Because I love all the story lines and how they all link together! And that's what dvds are for. just fast forwarding bits

-the look Kylo gives Rey when she arrives in the escape pod still gives me chills. Second time though, I saw how afraid Rey was..
I thought she was incredibly brave. 100% right in everything she did? no but it doesn't take away from her bravery...
And.. that's enough from me for now.

-When Luke confronts Kylo on the fields of Crait, initially you can see the lightsaber hooked to his belt. I really wanted to identify it going in. I believe Luke chose to project Anakin's lightsaber for that final moment. You can see it clearly when on his belt. This is really interesting! So not only did Luke choose to project himself looking like he did when he had first let Kylo down, he also chose to do it with the legacy saber... all quite poetic.. and hopefully therapeutic choices that will help Kylo heal.
Had Kylo been thinking more clearly at the time - he could have guessed it was projection Luke and not real Luke maybe - because Luke is holding the same lightsaber he and Rey had been fighting over. Maybe he didn't know it was broken in half... maybe he thought Rey had somehow given it to Luke. but then, why would Luke use Rey's (or from Kylo's point of view- his old light saber ) and not have one of his own? A hint things were not quite what they seemed...

-I loved the Luke/Kylo confrontation even more second time. Didn't think that was possible.. but Luke's love for his nephew really shone through for me - it just wasn't wrapped up in Luke's shame..Luke had forgiven himself - the tone is unexpected, but perfect. I'm really pleased with what we got. Kudos RJ and MH - amazing acting!

-I had loads of fun speculating about snoke's throne room before the movie - a lightning machine battery rah rah.. and lol not much came of it haaaa.. and I don't even really mind we did get one machine that was a shredder. Ouchie. And.. the big circular thing? that was a big magnifying glass to watch the far away battles up close! haaaaaa..

-I'm glad raw powah does not equal uncontrollable power. I think it still works well and conveying Rey and Kylo are matched and together unique, but without further complicating the plot. I'm also glad Rey's parents leaving her had nothing to do with her force powers. I'm happy with what we got. It was fun to speculate and explore - but it's also really fun to let go and just get with the story as it is unfolding

- the lightsaber tug of war was a pretty primal, intense moment between Kylo and Rey - these two get into it like no other two when they are together

I've recorded the audio for my own personal use. I'm going to see if I can get a few of the key moments transcribed more. I'll see how I go..
The dialogue is very rick and interwoven with meaning- the order of the scenes cut makes a difference to interpreting a line of dialogue too -  IMHO of course

I still think I'm not truly going to get to grips with this movie till I have the dvd okay okay.. and even then I'll probably need the audio commentary.. okay okay okay.. and even then I'll probably need the novelisation haaaaa.

One final observation - I loved how many times the resistance were referred to as either 'rebels' or 'rebel scum' - bring it on. I prefer this to the 'resistance'
Bye!

I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead?

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.

Night Huntress wrote:

Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead?

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.

@Night Huntress

Exactly, this is why I have issues with the editing. I'm sure there are some cut scenes that would make this movie more logical.

If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.

Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.

@Xylo Ren

Poe will survive, me thinks. I think he learned a lesson at the end. Not to attack, but retreat to fight another day. Weakest of the new characters, shame because Oscar is a top actor. But SW have the luxury to give top actors such as Oscar Isaac, Laura Dern, BDT minor roles.

Night Huntress wrote:

Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead?

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.

@Night Huntress

Mama Leia falls flat to me And Luke, as an uncle. Instead of going after his nephew, he secludes himself to an island and just gives up. It seems like no one went after Ben after the temple destruction. Han gains some points for confronting him on Starkiller, but he supposedly hadn't seen him in years. It wasn't eating them alive that their son was with a creature like Snoke, being consumed by darkness? If that were my baby boy, I'd go on a suicide mission to try and get him back

Night Huntress wrote:

Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead?

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.

@Night Huntress

I noticed that. So many forget Kylo was abused.

Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.

@Xylo Ren
Actually I see that as happening.


@DeeBee

I do not see Ben/Kylo as dark. I see him as a victim. He was let down by everyone - his parents, his uncle, his mentor. No wonder he was disillusioned. I really H

I finally have some time to post my thoughts about the movie. I loved it! And what I loved even more was the overall message of the movie - Failure is the greatest teacher.

I have to start by saying, that my quest to stay away from spoilers failed in the last minute and I had the two major plot points spoiled for me. Snoke and Luke dying. It robbed me of that huge intensity that I should have experienced in the theater, but what happened happened. I still loved the movie.

I was quite open minded when the movie opened but Rian quickly turned my expectations.

The start of the movie was great. I was caught off guard by how much of a comic relief Hux was in this movie, but I enjoyed it and got used to it very quickly. I was also impressed by Poe's character development during his attack on the dreadnought and his unwillingness to retreat. Something that casued the Ressistance to loose all its bombers and a lot of people.

Rey and Luke: Their first scene on Ahch-To was better than I have expected. I expected a lot of possibilities about why Luke exiled himself, but I really did not expect him to be there to die as a punishment. I expected him to go there to really dig deep into what made the First Jedi work and get a better sense as to why he failed Ben. The true reason for his exile shocked me, but more on that later. Having read the Visual Dictionary I am thinking that he even planned suicide, hence the ceremonial robes of a Jedi.
Their arc on Ahch-To was beautifully done, and I really enjoyed the stark contrast between jaded and miserable grumpy old Luke and young, naive, idealistic and "taking no s*** from anyone" Rey.

Kylo and Snoke. Oh my...The scene where Snoke humiliates Ben reminded me too much of my own childhood and I was on edge during the whole exchange. Kylo Ren was my favourite character from TFA and his arc through this movie resonated with me even more than I expected. His suffering, desire to prove himself, desire to be with someone and being rejected at the last moment were cathartic for me.

Rey and Kylo: I got into Reylo through ohtze's and ashesforfoxes's metas, but the amount of Reylo we got in this movie surprised me as much as anyone. It felt natural to me, it felt honest and intimate. The cave scene was haunting, but I still do not know what exactly happened, if anyone could elaborate on that I would really appreciate it! My takeaway was that Rey was looking for someone or something to push her forward, but it showed her that its only about her, her parents are not important to her anymore. But I believe that I am missing something.
I LOVED the hutt scene! The intimacy and honesty between them was joy to watch and heir gradual attraction and understanding reached its top in Snoke's throne room. Seriously, how awesome were they in the fight? (And the elevator scene, god!)

As I said at the start, the film gradually challenged my expectations. Ressistance decimated down to a handfull of people? Battle of Crait looked like a massive battle a la Hoth, but it was just a very small group with a single attempt to hold down the laser gun? Lot of major characters dying?

The biggest shock however came from the third flashback. Luke acting in pure instinct for a split second and igniting the saber, after seeing the darkness and horror in Ben was gutwrenching, but it showed that no matter how great your deeds were in the past, you are still susceptible to temptation and your actions can create an uncontrollable enviroment, that can destroy everything you held dear. Ben was preyed upon, isolated and groomed, and seeing Luke about to kill him, was tragic.

Rey's desire to save him was sweet and innocent but she did not realize that she acted selfishly and she made a huge mistake. She wanted to save Ben, but did not fully grasp the situation. She wanted to use him as a weapon. Even though she was right to reject his offer, she still wanted to use him to fight against the First Order.

His rage, being magnified by his abandonement issues right after he is once again rejected, this time by Rey, sent him to a berserk mode and it was hilarious to watch him bark orders He really wented himself with using the First Order.

The finale was surprising with Luke. It took me two times to understand what he did in the scene. He did not come to save Ben, only he can do that himself. He went there to apologize to him, to allow him to went his frustration and in this way protecting Ressistance from First Order and Kylo from himself. And reminding him, that no matter what happens next, he will be around to offer his help. His following death was beautifully done, both visually and thematicaly. A true Jedi.

Having wented his frustration, Kylo was left with nothing in the end. He better get up and realize that this is not his true destiny and being inspired by Luke and Rey, he will seek atonement and will turn.

I did not talk much about the rest of the film, because these parts resonated with me the most probably. While I enjoyed Finn and Rose's story the second time, the first time it did not grab me as much. Poe and Ressistance part of the story was better in my oppinion.

I loved how everyone failed in the movie, but through the failure, they will learn to rise up again. While the movie felt a bit strange (in a good way) I really enjoyed it, for its character development, breathtaking visualls and natural humor. The music however lacked stronger development of theme's established in TFA. I wanted full fledged Kylo's theme, Luke's theme, First Order theme, etc. The score is much more atmospheric and intimate, like the film itself, but having listened to it multiple times now, its growing on me. Notable mentions: Main Title and Escape, Revisiting Snoke, The Cave, New Alliance, Spark, The Last Jedi, Peace and Purpose.

Other notable mentions:
Leia, I loved every second she was on screen, bless you Carrie :/
Holdo and her ramming maneuver (I have never experienced such silence in the theater before)
YODA!
DJ, honestly, he was great
Rose was a great character, but her scene where she knocks Finn out of the beam took me out of the movie for a while.

Now that my rambling is done, I can finally join the discussions, where people explain and analyse the movie much better than I ever could

I feel so much compassion for Ben...I think he just wants to be loved for himself. Yet everyone sees his power rather than the man.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I feel so much compassion for Ben...I think he just wants to be loved for himself. Yet everyone sees his power rather than the man.

@motherofpearl1

I think Ben/Kylo sees power as the ultimate goal but deep down wants to be loved. I don't think I've in the recent memory connected to any character as much as I did with him or someone who resonates with me the most.

When I think about Kylo Ren or Ben Solo. This song fits him really well.

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.

@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead?

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.

@Night Huntress

I noticed that. So many forget Kylo was abused.

Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.

@Xylo Ren
Actually I see that as happening.


@DeeBee

I do not see Ben/Kylo as dark. I see him as a victim. He was let down by everyone - his parents, his uncle, his mentor. No wonder he was disillusioned. I really H

@motherofpearl1

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that one of the main reasons for Leia to found the Resistance was to get her son back. Especially, if she blamed Snoke for Ben’s darkness.