The Last Jedi Trailer(s)

snufkin wrote:Credit goes to @panki for first pointing this out from TFA's original art design, but if we think that Ben didn't defect as much as he was captured and turned, there's this scene created for an early version

@snufkin

Great find! Will we get flashbacks of this thru Rey?
Who is the cloaked figure? Not Snoke- is it the mysterious figure from the Lego hologram toy? Who is that?

Most importantly, when do we get Shirtless!Kylo?

@ReyoftheLightside - @panki is the one who brought it up because I was talking about scenarios where a person is disillusioned with their family/place in society and defects to "The Other Side," but they're brutalized/broken by the process. The obvious fictional example I bring up a lot is Pasha/Strelnikov in Dr. Zhivago, which was a central influence on both the PT and OT. In real life people such as John Walker Lindh and Bowe Bergdahl. Or being from Northern California, my first thought was Patty Hearst's kidnapping by the terrorist group, the SLA, where she was broken down and re-emerged as "Tanya," who aided them in their bank robbing spree (they murdered somebody at a bank that was located in the neighborhood where I went to Middle School, so it's a notorious landmark). Ben already feels rejected/isolated by both his power and the secrecy/control Leia's kept over the family history in a misguided attempt to protect him. Whatever goes down, he switches sides, and is brutalized by Snoke as part of his initial 'training' to become Kylo Ren.

snufkin wrote:@ReyoftheLightside - @panki is the one who brought it up because I was talking about scenarios where a person is disillusioned with their family/place in society and defects to "The Other Side," but they're brutalized/broken by the process. The obvious fictional example I bring up a lot is Pasha/Strelnikov in Dr. Zhivago, which was a central influence on both the PT and OT. In real life people such as John Walker Lindh and Bowe Bergdahl. Or being from Northern California, my first thought was Patty Hearst's kidnapping by the terrorist group, the SLA, where she was broken down and re-emerged as "Tanya," who aided them in their bank robbing spree (they murdered somebody at a bank that was located in the neighborhood where I went to Middle School, so it's a notorious landmark). Ben already feels rejected/isolated by both his power and the secrecy/control Leia's kept over the family history in a misguided attempt to protect him. Whatever goes down, he switches sides, and is brutalized by Snoke as part of his initial 'training' to become Kylo Ren.

@snufkin

I agree. When he punched himself during his fight with Finn and Rey in TFA, he probably mentally equates pain with control, which is an illusion. I think there are two ways Rey's torture scene is going to go down. Either she's going to save herself, or he is going to save her. I don't know if they're going to completely flip him or have him flirt with the light side before becoming completely evil or what... but I like where it's going.

RandomObserver wrote:

snufkin wrote:@ReyoftheLightside - @panki is the one who brought it up because I was talking about scenarios where a person is disillusioned with their family/place in society and defects to "The Other Side," but they're brutalized/broken by the process. The obvious fictional example I bring up a lot is Pasha/Strelnikov in Dr. Zhivago, which was a central influence on both the PT and OT. In real life people such as John Walker Lindh and Bowe Bergdahl. Or being from Northern California, my first thought was Patty Hearst's kidnapping by the terrorist group, the SLA, where she was broken down and re-emerged as "Tanya," who aided them in their bank robbing spree (they murdered somebody at a bank that was located in the neighborhood where I went to Middle School, so it's a notorious landmark). Ben already feels rejected/isolated by both his power and the secrecy/control Leia's kept over the family history in a misguided attempt to protect him. Whatever goes down, he switches sides, and is brutalized by Snoke as part of his initial 'training' to become Kylo Ren.

@snufkin

I agree. When he punched himself during his fight with Finn and Rey in TFA, he probably mentally equates pain with control, which is an illusion. I think there are two ways Rey's torture scene is going to go down. Either she's going to save herself, or he is going to save her. I don't know if they're going to completely flip him or have him flirt with the light side before becoming completely evil or what... but I like where it's going.

@RandomObserver

Y'all have got me right in the feels with all this talk of torture

@RandomObserver -the wound beating! Like killing your dad wasn't enough to get powered up on the Darkside, he had to do that and pick a fight with two people. Something's going on there. I'm guessing that he finally snaps after being under Snoke's control thanks to his insecurities and chooses a side by coming to Rey's defense. Which like you said, we don't know where it's going but if he saves her and kills the Big Bad, that creates a cliffhanger with some pretty crazy questions to be answered.  But we know his old man was the same way, not a good guy but a criminal and amoral a**hole who was very loyal/protective of the people he cared about.

Other thing I noticed from the trailer are how it handles their themes. Rey's both ominous and an action theme, like how Williams said it was about a young woman who's an adventurer. And it blends with his theme in the central part of the trailer. Any of the music experts like @Xylo Ren noticed anything interesting about how it's used/edited?

snufkin wrote:@RandomObserver -the wound beating! Like killing your dad wasn't enough to get powered up on the Darkside, he had to do that and pick a fight with two people. Something's going on there. I'm guessing that he finally snaps after being under Snoke's control thanks to his insecurities and chooses a side by coming to Rey's defense. Which like you said, we don't know where it's going but if he saves her and kills the Big Bad, that creates a cliffhanger with some pretty crazy questions to be answered. But we know his old man was the same way, not a good guy but a criminal and amoral a**hole who was very loyal/protective of the people he cared about.

@snufkin

Well, it's pretty telling he didn't hurt her, and he had like 100 opportunities to do so. That shot of him and Leia really had me on the edge of my seat. I don't think the trailer was misleading, even if shot out of sequence. I think it's very telling for the theme of the movie, and with Rian's West Side Story tweets? Yeah, I'm nice and comfy here in Reylo camp. Always have been, always will be. I don't think the concept of enemies-to-lovers trope has ever really been explored in the Star Wars movies. In the EU and other stuff, yeah, but to see it on the big screen is going to be amazing.

I love the trailer! It looks beautiful and has so much more Kylo and Reylo than I expected.

Did anyone else get a Phantom of the Opera vibe from this shot? Even the colouring of the scene is the same.

I love the ending scene regardless, but if it is two scenes spliced together and Rey is talking to Luke then I am having some feels because Luke must be rejecting her. Abandonment issues ahoy.

@RandomObserver - oh agreed no matter how many comments you see floating around the fandom hivemind that it's misdirection and that anybody who thinks that they have some type of central relationship (which most of here have thought from the beginning it's meant to be bigger and more complicated beyond just being romantic/sexual) is reading too much into the trailer. And you're right about the West Side Story references. The man's a cinephile with a degree from USC's film school and the domestic partner of a well-regarded film historian/critic/podcaster. He's fully aware of the meaning and full implications for any of the references he drops.

Ugh, so I calmly got into it with a "Kylo is creepy, don't touch him Rey!" person and they say that they "feel his (Kylo's) conflict" but they can't forgive him for killing Han...

I keep singing "chewie and the porgs" to the tune of Benny and the Jets today. Can't get it out of my head. che-che-che Chewie! Chewie!

just told my husband he reminds me a little of that porg from the trailer

@Cowgirlsamurai:

Kylo is many things but certainly not creepy- he looks so lost and broken (and cute) I just want to give him a hug all the time during that trailer

I admit I didn't like his look on most of the TLJ pictures... but in the trailer he is very- yeah, beautiful.

Night Huntress wrote:just told my husband he reminds me a little of that porg from the trailer

@Cowgirlsamurai:

Kylo is many things but certainly not creepy- he looks so lost and broken (and cute) I just want to give him a hug all the time during that trailer

I admit I didn't like his look on most of the TLJ pictures... but in the trailer he is very- yeah, beautiful.

@Night Huntress

Yes, his hair doesn't look as bad. He has the purple circles under his eyes but damn he still look good. Could he BE more princely?

Night Huntress wrote:just told my husband he reminds me a little of that porg from the trailer

@Cowgirlsamurai:

Kylo is many things but certainly not creepy- he looks so lost and broken (and cute) I just want to give him a hug all the time during that trailer

I admit I didn't like his look on most of the TLJ pictures... but in the trailer he is very- yeah, beautiful.

@Night Huntress

Yeah, you lose something with those side shots because you really don't get to see his eyes and expressive face then. I mean he's good looking and all, but his eyes and face are life. Seeing him head-on is stunning.

You know I almost wonder if they intentionally obscured his eyes/face for the most part until now, because Adam is so real and expressive in his performance of Kylo that maybe they thought it was too revealing until now.

Moonjump05 wrote:I love the ending scene regardless, but if it is two scenes spliced together and Rey is talking to Luke then I am having some feels because Luke must be rejecting her. Abandonment issues ahoy.

@Moonjump05

I think that may be the Rey speech that convinces Luke to train her.

So... my impression is that everyone but us think that Kylo's hand reach is Rey being tempted by the dark side. Like he's some sneaky snake that Rey must navigate around if she wants to not GO BAD.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:So... my impression is that everyone but us think that Kylo's hand reach is Rey being tempted by the dark side. Like he's some sneaky snake that Rey must navigate around if she wants to not GO BAD.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Well, at least they acknowledge that he is tempting

When I see Kylo reaching with his hand, I get this vibe:

Something would have happened and he would offers his hand

I ask myself if this bonding moment could happen just after Rey shows her destructive abilities because she entered in rage mode.
1) Someone on the forum (sorry, I don't remember who) compared Rey to Indian Goddess Shakti after she tapped into the DS in TFA.
2) Rey says herself that she felt something awakening within her and that she needs help. My feeling is that she might have been afraid of her destructive rage on SKB and now seek guidance with Luke
3) She indeed shows destructive abilities although she is practicing peacefully
4) Luke admits himself that he is scared of her raw strenghth because it reminds him of someone else
So my feeling is that the big challenge for Rey is to learn to canalize this raw power that can turn her into a beast.

So what if Rey would enter in rage mode during the battle against the Knight of Ren, blows up everything around her the same way Kylo did with the Jedi academy and Kylo manages to control her without hurting her ? This would be a major turning point because it would show that she and Kylo face the same issues with their powers and are two halves of the same coin.  Then, she could be left completely horrified by what she did. Kylo, who experienced that feeling, would express his compassion by offering his hand. It really looks like he feels sorry for the person he is facing: his eye expression even reminds me a little of Padme when she tries to console Anakin after he confessed his crime in AOTC.

Even after she disfigured him on SKB, he seemed neither scared nor horrified by what she did to him as if he knew where it comes from and how to handle it. He even tried to tend his hand toward her and called her name twice before the ground split. So I think he would be the most suitable person to help her handling this issue. Luke seems overwhelmed and scared by their power. As for Snoke, he is eager to use it.

Plus, who tells that Rey is really talking to Luke all along during the trailer? Daisy said herself that she doesn't receive a welcoming hand from him. Would she really confess herself to him in such personal way? Even if her relationship with Kylo is tense, we know that they can relate to each other. Maybe that after Kylo offer his hand, there is indeed at some point a more peaceful conversation where she confesses that she felt something awakening within her, that she needs help and that she needs someone to show her place. I find that the Rey from the last shot seems kinda lost, usure and hurt, which doesn't suit very well with her character by the end of TFA. Something must have already happened that makes her feel unconfident and shaken. Plus, she indeed wears her first outfit but her hair seem already down. At least, it doesn't look like she has her three buns:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:So... my impression is that everyone but us think that Kylo's hand reach is Rey being tempted by the dark side. Like he's some sneaky snake that Rey must navigate around if she wants to not GO BAD.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I get that sense too from a number of corners, not everybody, but a good number of people. The antis are saying it's a misdirect to screw with Reylos (whatever, like Disney has time for that, lol), but I think that the misdirect is for the GA, that she is being tempted by "dark Kylo" when in fact it's the other way around. Like somebody alluded above, it's him letting his light start to come up because of her. Of course, if people really looked at how open and genuine Adam's face is in that moment, they wouldn't think that. But a lot of people will think "oh he killed Han, he must be bad news" and just stop there unfortunately. Not everybody, but enough to make a lot of discourse really annoying.

Someone mentioned on tumblr that what if Rey herself split the ground between herself and Kylo on SKB, and it wasn't from the planet exploding?

This is a nice and quite neutral breakdown of the trailer.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/10/16451416/star-wars-the-last-jedi-trailer-breakdown-analysis

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:So... my impression is that everyone but us think that Kylo's hand reach is Rey being tempted by the dark side. Like he's some sneaky snake that Rey must navigate around if she wants to not GO BAD.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I get that sense too from a number of corners, not everybody, but a good number of people. The antis are saying it's a misdirect to screw with Reylos (whatever, like Disney has time for that, lol), but I think that the misdirect is for the GA, that she is being tempted by "dark Kylo" when in fact it's the other way around. Like somebody alluded above, it's him letting his light start to come up because of her. Of course, if people really looked at how open and genuine Adam's face is in that moment, they wouldn't think that. But a lot of people will think "oh he killed Han, he must be bad news" and just stop there unfortunately. Not everybody, but enough to make a lot of discourse really annoying.

@SoloSideCousin

The Last Jedi: Who Will Turn Dark?

I'm still riding high from last night. Drove to work with a big dopey smile on my face.

I've seen a bit about what "other" people think and I really would advise to just not even pay attention to the twists that some people are going to put on things.

Go with your gut feeling and your first reaction to the trailer. Because it's your first reaction that the people who make the trailers care about. Don't get swayed or deflated because of what others say. They'll try to make excuses like it's a force vision (in which case, who cares if it is??? Is there ANYTHING more Reylo than Rey dreaming about Kylo?? I'm like???) or they'll say he's giving those big heart eyes to Leia (lol) or Luke (LOL).

At the end of the day, the trailer creators wanted you to think that Rey is talking and facing Kylo and that he is the one reaching out to her. That's all that matters.

fuhry wrote:

Moonjump05 wrote:I love the ending scene regardless, but if it is two scenes spliced together and Rey is talking to Luke then I am having some feels because Luke must be rejecting her.  Abandonment issues ahoy.

@Moonjump05

I think that may be the Rey speech that convinces Luke to train her.  

@fuhry

I don't think Luke is going to train Rey at all.  Reylo deliciousness aside, I think that's the entire point of the last two seconds of the trailer.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:So... my impression is that everyone but us think that Kylo's hand reach is Rey being tempted by the dark side. Like he's some sneaky snake that Rey must navigate around if she wants to not GO BAD.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Sorry, but I can’t help twitching at the word “everyone”. Who is everyone? I am quite sure that at this point a great share of the GA has not even seen the trailer so who knows what they think. The everyone seems to be the dedicated fans who are glued to news feeds about the film and who in the end are not the biggest share of the audience and are fighting all the time anyway. Or the American football fans who are still not representative of the international everyone. The GA I know for instance is not looming on social media for SW stuff so no chance to know what they think about the trailer unless you speak with them. Sorry if I sound, er, difficult but I am a bit allergic to the generalization of opinions. Maybe some past trauma of people putting words in my mouth, Idk