The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

I was a IMAX 3D virgin until today! I’m not sure if it was the extra wowness or the fact it was my 4th time watching TLJ but I caught a bit more, and particularly enjoyed seeing the physical textures.  These are not in any order and might sound a rather jumbled.

- when Rey wakes up (dawn) in her hut the fire and stools are arranged in the positions that her and Kylo will seated in later that day
- did ALL the Force Bond sessions take place in one day, beginning with the day Luke says he’ll give her 3 lessons
- during the 2nd lesson with Luke (it’s afternoon ?) as they sit around the Jedi pool and Luke tells her his account of the Jedi academy the pool is    vibrating
- Rey’s hut is warm and inviting, glowing from within in the dark and rain
- Kylo sits in his quarters with cold lighting, although there is a slight warm shift as he is drawn to Rey's hand
- the explosion as the ram gun does its work is the backdrop to Rose kissing Finn
- this leaves a gaping wide hole in the Crait bunker for light to filter through - there is always hope with light?
- Leia is in a really dark place but Luke enters silhouetted against the light
- shafts of light can be seen when Rey wakes up in her hut and similar when we see BroomBoi and the other kids at the end.
All these references to light must tie in with the ‘ if you only believe in the dawn’ quote

I've forgotten who said it here first but I do agree that it appears Kylo did shoot the two TIEs, as when Hux called him to fall back only his Silencer was there

Rey looks slightly behind her just a split second before she reaches for Kylo’s hip in the PG fight, like he’s sent her a mental text to say I’m right behind you

I went with my sister who is GA. Overall she enjoyed it but on a surface level and being entertained. She was bit uncertain about the first Force bond scene but once she worked it what was going on she very much enjoyed the other Reylo scenes. Although wasn’t holding out much hope for them in IX as she felt Kylo was in the s*** with Rey. She did have a soft spot for Hux as she felt you know where you are with him, and he sure isn’t going to let Kylo gain the upper hand  for very long. The couple next to me actually reached out to each other to hold hands during the smut hut scene!

EDIT I adore Kylo Ben'e eye movements, so nuanced and constantly seem to be assessing the situation imo. The low angle looking up at him ( he closes his eyes?) as he holds dice was wonderful.

reylo1992 wrote:Today, I got the visit of my bestie, back from Quebec. We will go to the theaters together because he wanted to wait his return to watch it. So we have discussed about his prediction and gosh how hard it was for me not to spoil him anything:

Him: "Okay, you tell me that there won't be so many questions answered by TLJ. But I really hope that we get at least an answer about Rey's parents? I really want to know who she is.
Me:


Him: She must be Leia or Luke's daughter, right?
Me(trying hard not to spoil)


Him: "I guess we'll learn who Snoke is. You know, I've watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. Isn't he Sidious' master? What's his name already? Plagueis?"
Me (trying vey hard not to spoil):


Him: I am sure Luke is gonna die
Me:



Can't wait to see his face tomorrow

@reylo1992

Back from my viewing with my best friend. We didn't have the time to talk much about his impression but his reaction was so interesting:

During the first Skype call:

Him & his parents talking to each other:
Do you know what is going on? It's weird!

Him to me:
He must be her cousin, right?

Me:


After the movie:

Him:
Some flaws but a good movie overall. So Rey was the daughter of nobody? But then...why did Luke's lightsaber call to her?


Me:
Well, Rey's only motivation is to find a belonging, her family. Do you remember what Maz told her in TFA? That the belonging she seeks is not behind her but ahead? And we know that she can't find a belonging in her birth family so she'll have to find a family


Him:
But...with Luke gone and Leia soon, she can't find a family in them anymore, right?

Me:

Is there no young bachelor Skywalker male in there...?

Him:
Kylo?

Me:


Him:
But...do you think they'll redeem him after all what he's done? Even his mother seems to have lost all hope

Me:
Hope is like the Sun. If you believe in it only when you see it, you'll never make it through the night

*******************************************

Back home, I ask my brother what he thinks about it:

My bro (doesn't like TLJ much, not a big fan of Kylo, neither anti nor Reylo):

Like, have we seen the same movie? If there is one thing this f****ing movie was clear enough about is that these two are gonna make ton of babies. I mean, "do you have a cowl or something you can put on? Do people really need Kylo to stand naked next to a bed in front of her to get it?

So interesting to see that even after TLJ, people have very different perceptions on Reylo.

Watched TLJ in 3D IMAX and now I think I'll have to shell out another $40 for another IMAX session, because I don't think I can go back to the normal cinema screen. It's just so much more immersive and the atmosphere is somehow more special. Loved it all once again, bar the Canto Bight chase and the stable kids. At least once it's over and done with, I know that the movie is about to get really awesome.

Maybe it was the enormous screen, but I noticed more little details, like:

- Hux splits his lip and drips blood when Snoke throws him onto the floor in the beginning of the film
- After they're done threatening Kylo in his first scene with Snoke, the red guards tuck in their weapons back with a totally unnecessary show-off flourish
- There's a giant monster splashing in the sea in the scene where Rey follows Luke around on his daily routine!
- Other than the scar, Kylo has another nasty mark on his left shoulder, must be where Finn got him in their TFA scrap

- Loved how Luke's conversation with Yoda was the talk between two Jedi masters, yet Luke was still clearly Yoda's apprentice.

- Luke in the beginning: do you expect me to face the entire FO on my own with the lightsabre? Luke in the end: faces the FO on his own with the lightsabre

- Elevator scene is like the closest Rey ever got to using what's stereotypically referred to as feminine wiles, with that soft "I can help you" and moving a tad closer to Kylo LOL.

- The camera loooooves Daisy's beautiful face.

- Guys I think that the BB-8/BB-HATE ship is sunk

- Also, I'm weirdly bummed that we never get to see Snoke's slippers.

@Saracene

Yesterday was my first time ever for IMAX 3D too and agree it's engaging experience on a different level. Although I'm glad I didn't see TLJ on IMAX as my first viewing as it would have been a highly traumatic experience given as I went in with no spoilers, and I felt my heart ache for Kylo. I'm sure it would have amplified that grief 10x

@Saracene

The scar on Kylo’s left shoulder was a jab from Rey

Finn gets him on the right side (upper arm?). I remember him grabbing it.

I definitely think Rian wanted the audience, and Rey, to see those wounds. Kylo is mortal!

I went to watch TLJ with my parents in English. It was way too difficult for them to get everything. I think they got only 25% of the dialogs.

I had to clarify to my mom that Rey is not Luke’s daughter after the movie. Still, even though she thought Rey was Luke’s, when I asked her how she sees the future movie, her answer was “they will fight against each other.” Ok. And then she added in a lower voice “And in a moment of folly, they will make a baby.” Me: “What?!” Later on she confirmed that she does not really know how they will continue, but she doesn’t think they can be together, but they will still have a baby. And they make a very handsome couple. For not understanding the dialog, she got a lot of the vibes. After Ben killed Snoke and the two look at each other, I heard her say “aha!”

My Dad is not into characters. He likes the spaceships and special effects because he always wonders how people come up with such things and then how they are made. He liked the crystal foxes too. I think he looks at me with a slight apprehension now because I am not shying from saying that Ben/Kylo is probably my favorite movie character ever and I relate to him - I have the merchandize and the matching personality to prove it too. Bow down to Supreme Leader Kylo Ren. Just saying

SanghaRen wrote:I went to watch TLJ with my parents in English. It was way too difficult for them to get everything. I think they got only 25% of the dialogs.

I had to clarify to my mom that Rey is not Luke’s daughter after the movie. Still, even though she thought Rey was Luke’s, when I asked her how she sees the future movie, her answer was “they will fight against each other.” Ok. And then she added in a lower voice “And in a moment of folly, they will make a baby.” Me: “What?!” Later on she confirmed that she does not really know how they will continue, but she doesn’t think they can be together, but they will still have a baby. And they make a very handsome couple. For not understanding the dialog, she got a lot of the vibes. After Ben killed Snoke and the two look at each other, I heard her say “aha!”

My Dad is not into characters. He likes the spaceships and special effects because he always wonders how people come up with such things and then how they are made. He liked the crystal foxes too. I think he looks at me with a slight apprehension now because I am not shying from saying that Ben/Kylo is probably my favorite movie character ever and I relate to him - I have the merchandize and the matching personality to prove it too. Bow down to Supreme Leader Kylo Ren. Just saying

@SanghaRen

It's hard for me to hide that I like Kylo. Besides talking about him with my closest friends, I also like to doodle him. Ha one time one guy asked - what you are doodling, is it Severus Snape? I was like, erm. Also, I reblog him on my personal tumblr where I have some of my old friends and the ones that I got from my angsty gothic prose period. They probably think - what is with her and that random obsession with Kylo Ren. I dread of the day of meeting them because I imagine questions, lol. My mother barely knows what is Star Wars though.

I watched the movie yesterday and had heard somewhere that red is strategically sprinkled throughout the movie so I watched for that this time.

There is literally a speck of red in every single Resistance and First Order scene.

Purposefully! Lights, data readings, Finn's jacket, BB8's eye, a dress, a plom bloom---you name it. The camera will even pan slightly to catch a sliver of it behind someone's head while they're talking. The only scenes with not an ounce of red were those on Ahch-To.

Is Rian trying to show that both sides are wrong? Both sides have blood on their hands?

Xylo Ren wrote:I watched the movie yesterday and had heard somewhere that red is strategically sprinkled throughout the movie so I watched for that this time.

There is literally a speck of red in every single Resistance and First Order scene.

Purposefully! Lights, data readings, Finn's jacket, BB8's eye, a dress, a plom bloom---you name it. The camera will even pan slightly to catch a sliver of it behind someone's head while they're talking. The only scenes with not an ounce of red were those on Ahch-To.

Is Rian trying to show that both sides are wrong? Both sides have blood on their hands?

@Xylo Ren

I plan on seeing it again this weekend. I’ll watch for that!!! Very interesting catch! I can sympathize with Ben when he says let it all burn.

Xylo Ren wrote:I watched the movie yesterday and had heard somewhere that red is strategically sprinkled throughout the movie so I watched for that this time.

There is literally a speck of red in every single Resistance and First Order scene.

Purposefully! Lights, data readings, Finn's jacket, BB8's eye, a dress, a plom bloom---you name it. The camera will even pan slightly to catch a sliver of it behind someone's head while they're talking. The only scenes with not an ounce of red were those on Ahch-To.

Is Rian trying to show that both sides are wrong? Both sides have blood on their hands?

@Xylo Ren

According to DJ - they are.

I was thinking a lot of about DJ. I'am aware there's plenty of people out there who just hate him and speaking of waste of BDT for the role.

I'am not so sure about it. I found the character extremely interesting in all of it.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:I watched the movie yesterday and had heard somewhere that red is strategically sprinkled throughout the movie so I watched for that this time.

There is literally a speck of red in every single Resistance and First Order scene.

Purposefully! Lights, data readings, Finn's jacket, BB8's eye, a dress, a plom bloom---you name it. The camera will even pan slightly to catch a sliver of it behind someone's head while they're talking. The only scenes with not an ounce of red were those on Ahch-To.

Is Rian trying to show that both sides are wrong? Both sides have blood on their hands?

@Xylo Ren

According to DJ - they are.

I was thinking a lot of about DJ. I'am aware there's plenty of people out there who just hate him and speaking of waste of BDT for the role.

I'am not so sure about it. I found the character extremely interesting in all of it.

@Darth_Awakened

Some people hate DJ? I mean, he’s not my favorite character - I will not buy a DJ figure for instance - but he does serve an important function in the story and I enjoyed having this type of character to further grey out the story. I actually wanted to hug RJ when he made clear through DJ that both sides were buying from the same arm dealers, feeding a business machine that supports further oppression. I guess the parallel with RL is too much for some people to bear.

SanghaRen wrote:

Some people hate DJ? I mean, he’s not my favorite character - I will not buy a DJ figure for instance - but he does serve an important function in the story and I enjoyed having this type of character to further grey out the story. I actually wanted to hug RJ when he made clear through DJ that both sides were buying from the same arm dealers, feeding a business machine that supports further oppression. I guess the parallel with RL is too much for some people to bear.

@SanghaRen

Yeah, I loved DJ - I don't get why people are complaining they don't want to have real live conflicts and problems in SW, because SW is a fairy tale.   Newsflash: all fairy tales are a mirror of real life. They are exaggerated and maybe twisted but the inspiration comes from our society- where else?
War is always messy, bloody and in my opinion everyone involved looses- they are no winners... just survivors.

Besides- the simple conflict of good vs. bad is so outdated, predictable and boring...seen it thousands of times. No need to make another movie like this.

I like DJ and hope they don't bring him back for punishment. That he betrayed Finn and Rose by using their stupid, careless com-link convo with Poe that revealed the Resistance plan is one of better twists in the movie, especially since it came after he gave the medallion back to Rose. His betrayal wasn't pre-mediated. They were busted and he had to save his own skin so he did.

So I hope he's just a one-off and we won't have another forced Finn vs Phasma DJ fight.

reylo1992 wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:Today, I got the visit of my bestie, back from Quebec. We will go to the theaters together because he wanted to wait his return to watch it. So we have discussed about his prediction and gosh how hard it was for me not to spoil him anything:

Him: "Okay, you tell me that there won't be so many questions answered by TLJ. But I really hope that we get at least an answer about Rey's parents? I really want to know who she is.
Me:


Him: She must be Leia or Luke's daughter, right?
Me(trying hard not to spoil)


Him: "I guess we'll learn who Snoke is. You know, I've watched Revenge of the Sith yesterday. Isn't he Sidious' master? What's his name already? Plagueis?"
Me (trying vey hard not to spoil):


Him: I am sure Luke is gonna die
Me:



Can't wait to see his face tomorrow

@reylo1992

Back from my viewing with my best friend. We didn't have the time to talk much about his impression but his reaction was so interesting:

During the first Skype call:

Him & his parents talking to each other:
Do you know what is going on? It's weird!

Him to me:
He must be her cousin, right?

Me:


After the movie:

Him:
Some flaws but a good movie overall. So Rey was the daughter of nobody? But then...why did Luke's lightsaber call to her?


Me:
Well, Rey's only motivation is to find a belonging, her family. Do you remember what Maz told her in TFA? That the belonging she seeks is not behind her but ahead? And we know that she can't find a belonging in her birth family so she'll have to find a family


Him:
But...with Luke gone and Leia soon, she can't find a family in them anymore, right?

Me:

Is there no young bachelor Skywalker male in there...?

Him:
Kylo?

Me:


Him:
But...do you think they'll redeem him after all what he's done? Even his mother seems to have lost all hope

Me:
Hope is like the Sun. If you believe in it only when you see it, you'll never make it through the night

*******************************************

Back home, I ask my brother what he thinks about it:

My bro (doesn't like TLJ much, not a big fan of Kylo, neither anti nor Reylo):

Like, have we seen the same movie? If there is one thing this f****ing movie was clear enough about is that these two are gonna make ton of babies. I mean, "do you have a cowl or something you can put on? Do people really need Kylo to stand naked next to a bed in front of her to get it?

So interesting to see that even after TLJ, people have very different perceptions on Reylo.

@reylo1992

Remember, regarding the sabre, Kylo told Finn: "That weapon belongs to me."

Saracene wrote:Watched TLJ in 3D IMAX and now I think I'll have to shell out another $40 for another IMAX session, because I don't think I can go back to the normal cinema screen. It's just so much more immersive and the atmosphere is somehow more special. Loved it all once again, bar the Canto Bight chase and the stable kids. At least once it's over and done with, I know that the movie is about to get really awesome.

Maybe it was the enormous screen, but I noticed more little details, like:

- Hux splits his lip and drips blood when Snoke throws him onto the floor in the beginning of the film
- After they're done threatening Kylo in his first scene with Snoke, the red guards tuck in their weapons back with a totally unnecessary show-off flourish
- There's a giant monster splashing in the sea in the scene where Rey follows Luke around on his daily routine!
- Other than the scar, Kylo has another nasty mark on his left shoulder, must be where Finn got him in their TFA scrap

- Loved how Luke's conversation with Yoda was the talk between two Jedi masters, yet Luke was still clearly Yoda's apprentice.

- Luke in the beginning: do you expect me to face the entire FO on my own with the lightsabre? Luke in the end: faces the FO on his own with the lightsabre

- Elevator scene is like the closest Rey ever got to using what's stereotypically referred to as feminine wiles, with that soft "I can help you" and moving a tad closer to Kylo LOL.

- The camera loooooves Daisy's beautiful face.

- Guys I think that the BB-8/BB-HATE ship is sunk

- Also, I'm weirdly bummed that we never get to see Snoke's slippers.

@Saracene

Were the glasses weird? I also saw it in 3D IMAX, my first experience of that. The 3D glasses were unlike any I had ever been given before and hideously uncomfortable. I'm thinking next time will be regular 2D IMAX.

I loved Yoda calling Luke "Young Skywalker".

On my third viewing yesterday I interpreted a line differently.
Kylo: Did you come back to say you forgive me ... to save my soul?
Luke: No

I think he’s answering No because he’s not physically there & I also believe that entire stunt is to make sure Ben doesn’t split his spirit anymore with physically killing Luke.

Socialnole wrote:On my third viewing yesterday I interpreted a line differently.
Kylo: Did you come back to say you forgive me ... to save my soul?
Luke: No

I think he’s answering No because he’s not physically there & I also believe that entire stunt is to make sure Ben doesn’t split his spirit anymore with physically killing Luke.

@Socialnole

I always remember comparing the Han death scene to U2's One regarding the story of a father betraying his son and wanting forgiveness....but really it seems more suited to the Kylo/Luke scene at the end of TLJ. Especially when Kylo sarcastically asks him if he's come for forgiveness....

@Sacrebleu The 3D glasses are a bit weird, especially since I have to put them over my normal glasses, but I found I got used to them soon enough.

So I saw TLJ for the second time yesterday, this time with my sisters.

They absolutely loved the movie: and this time around, with me thinking about and digesting everything, I actually really loved the movie this time around, since at first, I liked it, but I didn’t love it, and I wasn’t sure if it was going to worsen or get better after more viewings.

TLJ is divisive, which I expected, but I didn’t expect it to be *that* divisive. I do think it will be better received after IX comes out, though.

With this said, that movie is going to age very well. Sure, it’s far from perfect, but it’s going to become a textbook example of a Heroine’s Journey with all the big sexual awakening metaphors, while Finn and Rose’s plot has very universal themes about the Dog Eats Dog side of politics in the greater scheme of things that have always proven true throughout history, and that will sadly probably always stay around.

I did notice a few things this time around – there are some things I’m going to skip since I’m keeping them for the other parts of my very long TLJ review (one will be all about the Skywalker Drama with bonus Snoke and the other about Finn and Rose, and maybe I’ll squeeze the Resistance in as well), but I have other little details to add, notably about Reylo.

Also, there is no f****ing way Ben won’t be redeemed and Reylo won’t be the endgame in some way or another. And if they make the stupid-a** decision of keeping it platonic (yes, it’s stupid-a** at this point, no one will convince me otherwise), it’s going to be one of the biggest wastes in the history of cinema. I’m not even exaggerating. But after TLJ and with all the overt sexual subtext going on, I’ll be mighty surprised if the Mouse House still has cold feet about Reylo. My prediction about it pre-TLJ was “Go big or go home”, and they definitely went big. With the second viewing, I’m pretty solid on that perspective.

- Now that I know the plot to the movie, the editing feels a lot less choppy for me. It’s not so much how they’re placed, because I can understand why they’re placed the way they are, but the transition between scenes is not always smooth and sometimes, some scenes that should all be merged into a longer one get cut, which kind of breaks the overall feel. But I get that the reason is that TLJ is so multilayered and has so many things going on at once with a big cast that it’s hard to manage.
- Hux’s facial expressions are absolutely hysterical. He’s become one of my favorite characters I love to hate. Also, Domhnall Gleeson is a phenomenal actor.
- I wasn’t so sure after my first viewing, but now, I’m pretty certain Kylo thinks Leia died after the TIE Fighters bombing the Raddus’ bridge. It would make sense, considering she had a near death experience and was then comatose, so perhaps that made her unresponsive through the Force, which led Kylo to believe she was gone. Therefore, him wanting to burn the Resistance to the ground, while it’s not good at all, makes a lot of sense and becomes all the more heartbreaking: remember how Kylo was pissed at Finn in TFA? It’s partially because he views him as being responsible for bringing Han to him. That’s how Kylo is: he tends to lash out on the world and whoever he believes wronged him (and most of the time, it isn’t really justified), and TLJ pretty much showed why he’s the way he is. He hates the Resistance because, like the Rebellion and the New Republic, she chose to fight rather than to be present, and ultimately, that’s what caused her death. So him telling Rey to “let it burn” becomes all the more heartbreaking. What’s worse? When he picks up the golden dice in the Rebel base on Crait, I think it’s at that moment he realizes that woops, Mommy was alive all along and he fucked up. Big time.
- Maz totally banged the Master Codebreaker. No one will convince me otherwise.
- Rey’s first time meditating with Luke? That was totally a metaphor for masturbation and her discovering her body. Sorry not sorry. It all ends with her seeing the hole on Ahch-To that’s supposedly the “Dark Side” and is basically a big metaphor for a vagina, and her gasp that sounds an awful lot like a gasp of pleasure while water comes out of the hole? IT’S FORCE MASTURBATION GUYS. DON’T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT, BLAME RIAN. And of course, Luke is terrified because a) He’s a sixty-year-old virgin, and b) He’s the Father figure here, and he’s terrified not only of the Heroine becoming a woman by exploring her forbidden sexuality, but also of her Other Half who’s in the middle of a pretty ugly adolescent turmoil and can’t seem to truly go from boy to man.
- And of course, straight after, we get some Force bond scenes with Kylo with off-the-charts UST/BST, where Kylo is peacocking around and looks every inch the Dangerous Dreamboat/Byronic Hero ready to seduce the Gothic Heroine, and Rey standing her own and matching his intensity is why the scenes don’t come out as predatory (same went with Han and Leia in ESB, though they went more for the old Hollywood screwball comedy approach).
- Also, there should have been another Force bond scene between the third and the fourth. To refresh your memory, the third is when Kylo tells Rey what really happened between him and Luke at the Jedi Temple, and the fourth is the hand touching. The Mirror scene happens in between. Like, it works fine, but there was a little transition missing.
- The fourth Force bond scene managed to be EVEN BETTER on second viewing? Like, Rey tells Kylo what happened in the Mirror scene, and you can feel her voice tearing up a bit. Meanwhile, not only Kylo is listening, but you can clearly see his eyes are glassy, and he looks like he’s about to cry as well. He sympathizes with her, and you just know he understands exactly how abandoned and lost she feels. “Don’t be afraid, I feel it too”, amirite?
- First time, I didn’t notice Rey and Ben tearing up when they touch hands. I think I got all teary-eyed too, lol. I don’t think they only see each other’s future, but I think they also see each other as who they truly are. And that’s the moment where Rey falls in love with Ben.
- I am… honestly not sure what exactly Rey saw, and what exactly Ben saw when they talk about each other’s future. At first, I thought they saw the two of them fighting against the Praetorian Guards, but I really don’t know at this point. I think it’s possible Rey saw that, but I think Ben saw something else. And if it’s the case… count me excited for IX. But Reylo is real, guys, and it’s endgame.
- Rey is at her prettiest whenever she’s around Kylo/Ben. Like, in the coffin/pod and in the elevator, her face is all lit up, and it makes her traits look very soft and sweet. Seriously, she totally spent hours in the shower and fussing around with her appearance before boarding the Supremacy, to the point it really feels like a teenage girl going on her first date, I’m not even kidding. Boy do I love couples who go and kill gross old humanoids and their guards on the first date.
- I’m going to mention it in the Finnrose part of my review, but boy did they waste Gwendoline Christie.
- The transition between “Rey gets her heart broken and leaves the Throne Room while Kylo’s unconscious” and “Rey shows up in the Millennium Falcon happily gunning at FO TIE fighters” is still kind of jarring, but not as much as the first time. I wonder at this point if she’s having pretty much the same “screw you” disposition Kylo’s having on the other side of the battle. But of course, for both of them, it fades away pretty quickly when they have to face reality again and realize that “Welp, we screwed up”. Kylo gets that realization when he sees Rey on the MF’s threshold via Force Bond while holding Han’s dice, and Rey at first is a mix of sadness, compassion/pity but also a fair amount of “You’re sleeping on the couch tonight”, but when she sees Finn caring for Rose later, I think it’s at that moment she’s starting to get inklings of “I may have made a mistake…”. I think she’s going to understand it fully only in IX, though. It won’t be as harsh of a realization as it’s going to be for Kylo, but still.
- Hux is totally going to backstab Kylo at the first opportunity he gets. Just the smug look he gives Kylo just before he goes in the control room and finds Han’s dice, you can tell that Supreme Leader or not, he still considers himself far superior. So because of that, I really don’t think there’s going to be a big time jump between TLJ and IX.

vaderito wrote:I like DJ and hope they don't bring him back for punishment. That he betrayed Finn and Rose by using their stupid, careless com-link convo with Poe that revealed the Resistance plan is one of better twists in the movie, especially since it came after he gave the medallion back to Rose. His betrayal wasn't pre-mediated. They were busted and he had to save his own skin so he did.

So I hope he's just a one-off and we won't have another forced Finn vs Phasma DJ fight.

@vaderito

My fear is more that they make him choose the "good" side in IX and that would really kill his role in the story and sound like preaching which I hate. If he comes back in IX, I hope he remains a character that goes where the wind blows as we say in French. I would not mind if Finn and Rose play him in IX to make up for their naivety in TLJ and he acknowledges it respectfully before leaving again, but please do not have him choose a side.

Irina de France wrote:So I saw TLJ for the second time yesterday, this time with my sisters.

They absolutely loved the movie: and this time around, with me thinking about and digesting everything, I actually really loved the movie this time around, since at first, I liked it, but I didn’t love it, and I wasn’t sure if it was going to worsen or get better after more viewings.

TLJ is divisive, which I expected, but I didn’t expect it to be *that* divisive. I do think it will be better received after IX comes out, though.

With this said, that movie is going to age very well. Sure, it’s far from perfect, but it’s going to become a textbook example of a Heroine’s Journey with all the big sexual awakening metaphors, while Finn and Rose’s plot has very universal themes about the Dog Eats Dog side of politics in the greater scheme of things that have always proven true throughout history, and that will sadly probably always stay around.

I did notice a few things this time around – there are some things I’m going to skip since I’m keeping them for the other parts of my very long TLJ review (one will be all about the Skywalker Drama with bonus Snoke and the other about Finn and Rose, and maybe I’ll squeeze the Resistance in as well), but I have other little details to add, notably about Reylo.

Also, there is no f****ing way Ben won’t be redeemed and Reylo won’t be the endgame in some way or another. And if they make the stupid-a** decision of keeping it platonic (yes, it’s stupid-a** at this point, no one will convince me otherwise), it’s going to be one of the biggest wastes in the history of cinema. I’m not even exaggerating. But after TLJ and with all the overt sexual subtext going on, I’ll be mighty surprised if the Mouse House still has cold feet about Reylo. My prediction about it pre-TLJ was “Go big or go home”, and they definitely went big. With the second viewing, I’m pretty solid on that perspective.

- Now that I know the plot to the movie, the editing feels a lot less choppy for me. It’s not so much how they’re placed, because I can understand why they’re placed the way they are, but the transition between scenes is not always smooth and sometimes, some scenes that should all be merged into a longer one get cut, which kind of breaks the overall feel. But I get that the reason is that TLJ is so multilayered and has so many things going on at once with a big cast that it’s hard to manage.
- Hux’s facial expressions are absolutely hysterical. He’s become one of my favorite characters I love to hate. Also, Domhnall Gleeson is a phenomenal actor.
- I wasn’t so sure after my first viewing, but now, I’m pretty certain Kylo thinks Leia died after the TIE Fighters bombing the Raddus’ bridge. It would make sense, considering she had a near death experience and was then comatose, so perhaps that made her unresponsive through the Force, which led Kylo to believe she was gone. Therefore, him wanting to burn the Resistance to the ground, while it’s not good at all, makes a lot of sense and becomes all the more heartbreaking: remember how Kylo was pissed at Finn in TFA? It’s partially because he views him as being responsible for bringing Han to him. That’s how Kylo is: he tends to lash out on the world and whoever he believes wronged him (and most of the time, it isn’t really justified), and TLJ pretty much showed why he’s the way he is. He hates the Resistance because, like the Rebellion and the New Republic, she chose to fight rather than to be present, and ultimately, that’s what caused her death. So him telling Rey to “let it burn” becomes all the more heartbreaking. What’s worse? When he picks up the golden dice in the Rebel base on Crait, I think it’s at that moment he realizes that woops, Mommy was alive all along and he fucked up. Big time.
- Maz totally banged the Master Codebreaker. No one will convince me otherwise.
- Rey’s first time meditating with Luke? That was totally a metaphor for masturbation and her discovering her body. Sorry not sorry. It all ends with her seeing the hole on Ahch-To that’s supposedly the “Dark Side” and is basically a big metaphor for a vagina, and her gasp that sounds an awful lot like a gasp of pleasure while water comes out of the hole? IT’S FORCE MASTURBATION GUYS. DON’T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT, BLAME RIAN. And of course, Luke is terrified because a) He’s a sixty-year-old virgin, and b) He’s the Father figure here, and he’s terrified not only of the Heroine becoming a woman by exploring her forbidden sexuality, but also of her Other Half who’s in the middle of a pretty ugly adolescent turmoil and can’t seem to truly go from boy to man.
- And of course, straight after, we get some Force bond scenes with Kylo with off-the-charts UST/BST, where Kylo is peacocking around and looks every inch the Dangerous Dreamboat/Byronic Hero ready to seduce the Gothic Heroine, and Rey standing her own and matching his intensity is why the scenes don’t come out as predatory (same went with Han and Leia in ESB, though they went more for the old Hollywood screwball comedy approach).
- Also, there should have been another Force bond scene between the third and the fourth. To refresh your memory, the third is when Kylo tells Rey what really happened between him and Luke at the Jedi Temple, and the fourth is the hand touching. The Mirror scene happens in between. Like, it works fine, but there was a little transition missing.
- The fourth Force bond scene managed to be EVEN BETTER on second viewing? Like, Rey tells Kylo what happened in the Mirror scene, and you can feel her voice tearing up a bit. Meanwhile, not only Kylo is listening, but you can clearly see his eyes are glassy, and he looks like he’s about to cry as well. He sympathizes with her, and you just know he understands exactly how abandoned and lost she feels. “Don’t be afraid, I feel it too”, amirite?
- First time, I didn’t notice Rey and Ben tearing up when they touch hands. I think I got all teary-eyed too, lol. I don’t think they only see each other’s future, but I think they also see each other as who they truly are. And that’s the moment where Rey falls in love with Ben.
- I am… honestly not sure what exactly Rey saw, and what exactly Ben saw when they talk about each other’s future. At first, I thought they saw the two of them fighting against the Praetorian Guards, but I really don’t know at this point. I think it’s possible Rey saw that, but I think Ben saw something else. And if it’s the case… count me excited for IX. But Reylo is real, guys, and it’s endgame.
- Rey is at her prettiest whenever she’s around Kylo/Ben. Like, in the coffin/pod and in the elevator, her face is all lit up, and it makes her traits look very soft and sweet. Seriously, she totally spent hours in the shower and fussing around with her appearance before boarding the Supremacy, to the point it really feels like a teenage girl going on her first date, I’m not even kidding. Boy do I love couples who go and kill gross old humanoids and their guards on the first date.
- I’m going to mention it in the Finnrose part of my review, but boy did they waste Gwendoline Christie.
- The transition between “Rey gets her heart broken and leaves the Throne Room while Kylo’s unconscious” and “Rey shows up in the Millennium Falcon happily gunning at FO TIE fighters” is still kind of jarring, but not as much as the first time. I wonder at this point if she’s having pretty much the same “screw you” disposition Kylo’s having on the other side of the battle. But of course, for both of them, it fades away pretty quickly when they have to face reality again and realize that “Welp, we screwed up”. Kylo gets that realization when he sees Rey on the MF’s threshold via Force Bond while holding Han’s dice, and Rey at first is a mix of sadness, compassion/pity but also a fair amount of “You’re sleeping on the couch tonight”, but when she sees Finn caring for Rose later, I think it’s at that moment she’s starting to get inklings of “I may have made a mistake…”. I think she’s going to understand it fully only in IX, though. It won’t be as harsh of a realization as it’s going to be for Kylo, but still.
- Hux is totally going to backstab Kylo at the first opportunity he gets. Just the smug look he gives Kylo just before he goes in the control room and finds Han’s dice, you can tell that Supreme Leader or not, he still considers himself far superior. So because of that, I really don’t think there’s going to be a big time jump between TLJ and IX.

@Irina de France

Haha...of course, now I am thinking about Luke tickling Rey's fingers with that stem. Haha.

Saracene wrote:@Sacrebleu The 3D glasses are a bit weird, especially since I have to put them over my normal glasses, but I found I got used to them soon enough.

@Saracene

We both found them painful. They were completely stiff, no bending anywhere. Sat on our faces funny and dug into our foreheads. The stems on the side, which didn't fold, dug into our heads. I would go again for 3D IMAX if not for that. I finally took them off when Broom Boy came on screen.

Irina de France wrote:

Also, there is no f****ing way Ben won’t be redeemed and Reylo won’t be the endgame in some way or another. And if they make the stupid-a** decision of keeping it platonic (yes, it’s stupid-a** at this point, no one will convince me otherwise), it’s going to be one of the biggest wastes in the history of cinema. I’m not even exaggerating. But after TLJ and with all the overt sexual subtext going on, I’ll be mighty surprised if the Mouse House still has cold feet about Reylo. My prediction about it pre-TLJ was “Go big or go home”, and they definitely went big. With the second viewing, I’m pretty solid on that perspective.

Exactly EXACTLY!!!! It would be such a waste. Ben virtually made a proposal of marriage in the throne room after they fought the PG.
No way did he meant to rule the galaxy together as platonic partners!
The look on his face when he offers her his hand! He wanted her to rule by his side as his equal partner and bride- producing a lot of heirs

Irina de France wrote:
- Hux’s facial expressions are absolutely hysterical. He’s become one of my favorite characters I love to hate. Also, Domhnall Gleeson is a phenomenal actor.

I didn't cared for his character after TFA- but now I love him and hope he plays a bigger role in IX. Domhnall was fantastic. His condescending glances toward Kylo at the end were very telling.

Irina de France wrote:
- I wasn’t so sure after my first viewing, but now, I’m pretty certain Kylo thinks Leia died after the TIE Fighters bombing the Raddus’ bridge. It would make sense, considering she had a near death experience and was then comatose, so perhaps that made her unresponsive through the Force, which led Kylo to believe she was gone. Therefore, him wanting to burn the Resistance to the ground, while it’s not good at all, makes a lot of sense and becomes all the more heartbreaking: remember how Kylo was pissed at Finn in TFA? It’s partially because he views him as being responsible for bringing Han to him. That’s how Kylo is: he tends to lash out on the world and whoever he believes wronged him (and most of the time, it isn’t really justified), and TLJ pretty much showed why he’s the way he is. He hates the Resistance because, like the Rebellion and the New Republic, she chose to fight rather than to be present, and ultimately, that’s what caused her death. So him telling Rey to “let it burn” becomes all the more heartbreaking. What’s worse? When he picks up the golden dice in the Rebel base on Crait, I think it’s at that moment he realizes that woops, Mommy was alive all along and he fucked up. Big time.

Yes, to all of this! It's almost like he blames the resistance for the death of his mother and Rey leaving him- so he want's to destroy it.

Irina de France wrote:
- I am… honestly not sure what exactly Rey saw, and what exactly Ben saw when they talk about each other’s future. At first, I thought they saw the two of them fighting against the Praetorian Guards, but I really don’t know at this point. I think it’s possible Rey saw that, but I think Ben saw something else. And if it’s the case… count me excited for IX. But Reylo is real, guys, and it’s endgame.

I don't think they saw the fight against the PG either- I think they both saw further in the future... and I think they both saw the same thing but interpreted it differently.
They will stand together at some point but neither of them will turn to the others side- they will meet in the middle. At least that's my take of it- at least of how much we know about it at this point.

Irina de France wrote:
- Rey is at her prettiest whenever she’s around Kylo/Ben. Like, in the coffin/pod and in the elevator, her face is all lit up, and it makes her traits look very soft and sweet. Seriously, she totally spent hours in the shower and fussing around with her appearance before boarding the Supremacy, to the point it really feels like a teenage girl going on her first date, I’m not even kidding. Boy do I love couples who go and kill gross old humanoids and their guards on the first date.

she put on eyeshadow and mascara - probably found those things on the Falcon from Leia's spare make-up supply

Irina de France wrote:
- The transition between “Rey gets her heart broken and leaves the Throne Room while Kylo’s unconscious” and “Rey shows up in the Millennium Falcon happily gunning at FO TIE fighters” is still kind of jarring, but not as much as the first time. I wonder at this point if she’s having pretty much the same “screw you” disposition Kylo’s having on the other side of the battle. But of course, for both of them, it fades away pretty quickly when they have to face reality again and realize that “Welp, we screwed up”. Kylo gets that realization when he sees Rey on the MF’s threshold via Force Bond while holding Han’s dice, and Rey at first is a mix of sadness, compassion/pity but also a fair amount of “You’re sleeping on the couch tonight”, but when she sees Finn caring for Rose later, I think it’s at that moment she’s starting to get inklings of “I may have made a mistake…”. I think she’s going to understand it fully only in IX, though. It won’t be as harsh of a realization as it’s going to be for Kylo, but still.
- Hux is totally going to backstab Kylo at the first opportunity he gets. Just the smug look he gives Kylo just before he goes in the control room and finds Han’s dice, you can tell that Supreme Leader or not, he still considers himself far superior. So because of that, I really don’t think there’s going to be a big time jump between TLJ and IX.

@Irina de France

Again I agree with all of that- I really enjoyed your review... can't wait for more. They are almost as entertaining as the movie

Saw TLJ for a second time today! I heard a lot of people say that the film improves on second viewing. That hasn’t been the case for me though. Overall I enjoyed it as I did the first time but I still have some problems with it. Here are my thoughts:

Luke’s backstory with Kylo and his reasoning for why the Jedi have to end still doesn’t work for me. Didn’t seem like a natural progression of his character at all for him to nearly murder his nephew and than to just give up like that. And I was actually excited for a more pessimistic/antagonistic Luke before the release of the film but the way it was executed in TLJ was just not convincing for me. That’s not to say that I didn’t enjoy Luke Skywalker in this film at all. His conversation with Leia, his confrontation with Kylo and his death scene were all perfect. I also enjoyed some of the more humorous moments, like his first lesson with Rey and his reunion with R2 and Yoda. The scene were he connects with Leia through the Force while she is in coma was also great.

Once again the Reylo scenes were great but not enough! I wanted more Force Skype sessions! Rey goes pretty fast from hating him to wanting to save him. A few more moments where both of them get used to each other and learn to understand/trust one another would have made the transition less jarring in my opinion.

The throne room scene is truly one of the highlights of the film but I wish there was less intercutting to FinnRose/Resistance scenes.

There were too many subplots. The Resistance/Canto Bight plot was overall too long and overcrowded with too many characters. In comparison the Force plot felt too short and that was the more interesting plotline. As much as I love John Boyega and Oscar Isaac, the Resistance plot should have focused on only one character instead of two. Especially because they haven’t done anything interesting with Finn’s stormtrooper background so far. Might as well just have one Resistance character and focus on him...

I just love the dynamic between Kylo and Hux!

I really don’t like how happy-go-lucky Rey is on Crait. It kind of undermines the emotional impact of the throne room scene. It almost seems like only Ben truly cares (I know she looks sad for a moment with Finn and Rose at the end but still...).

The action scenes/space battles were all really good.

I’m glad that Rey’s origins have been revealed and that she is a nobody but the way it was done was a bit weird. The movie made it seem like the revelation that her parents are nobodies is a big deal for Rey, when it was only stated in TFA that she is in denial about her parents abandoning her. Based on TFA it didn’t seem like she expected her parents to be anyone of galactic importance (in contrast to the audience who speculated about her lineage for two years). So when Kylo revealed the truth to her in the throne room it almost seemed that he was addressing the audience instead of her. Kylo’s proposal was so Darcy though and I loved it („You come from nothing. You are nothing. But not to me.“).


Overall I would say this is a very decent Star Wars film but not a masterpiece. For all it’s brilliant moments the film gets bogged down with too many subplots and characters which makes it appear a little bit messy.

The backlash this movie has received from the fanbase is ridiculous though. By and large it is still one of the better Star Wars films in my opinion.

Also Happy New Year everyone!

MyOnlyHope wrote:

Moonjump05 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Moonjump05 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).

@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.  

In general, I am not too worried.  ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out.  Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.

@Moonjump05
I absolutely love the film and nothing is going to change that. I don't get the fixation on fan opinions anyway. We're talking about the same people who thought Kylo "master manipulator" lured Han onto the catwalk and bitched for two years about how Kylo was an emo wuss who got his a** kicked by Mary Sue Rey.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Lol, true true.  These fans have been barking up the wrong force tree for two years and just had the rug pulled out from under them.  They are reacting badly.  (giving me Naruto flashbacks with that petition)

Tbh, so many of these "reviews" just sound... So dumb?  Like, I try not to be so dismissive, but when someone complains about Snoke I roll my eyes because they don't get it.  Or Luke dying because the story isn't about him. These aren't inconsistent plots, they are just not the fanboy expectation and so are getting demonized.

@Moonjump05
Bolded is a classic example of fanboy genre confusion and how lost they really are. Like please find me a coming-of-age fairytale where the hero's mentor character doesn't die or leave. How many times has this happened in SW alone? Like four? The ST is even building on a classic trope by removing the older generation completely and forcing the new generation to learn from the failures of the past, move forward and rebuild the galaxy on their own terms. Plus you have the idea that the mentor's death effects not only the heroine as she grows up, but also the villain in the same way. What an incredible, modern twist on an age old story! I guess fanboys think Luke is exempt from serving his role as a coming-of-age mentor because he's Luke Skywalker?

@MyOnlyHope

I agree with all of you guys told. I watched the movie 4 times, with different people, hard-fans, fans, GA, and everybody liked. Two of my friends didn't like that much, but they complained about silly things, one told me she wanted to know more about the Force. But this isn't a movie about the Force. lol

These fans complaining, I don't get them, it's a trilogy, we have to wait the third movie to see if the whole story makes sense. This one is the 2nd movie, the depressive one (who wants a trilogy where the good guys win always?), we have to wait and see what the third one has to us. Looks like headcanons and expectations aren't letting people enjoy the movie.