Space Capes - the Costumes thread

[snufkin]

As with cinematography, I love talking about costumes and this installment had some good ones. Obviously high waisted space pants gets all the talk, but two other interviews with Michael Kaplan (who has done costumes on iconic films like Blade Runner) revealed some gems, like Kylo obviously gets his fashion sense, along with his Force powers, from Leia. And interesting choice of words about the color of the outfit Rey wears when she goes to the Supremacy:

It’s Time for Another ‘Star Wars’ Best Costume Oscar

He returned to a galaxy far, far away this season, designing Rey’s scrappy Jedi-training outfit, Kylo Ren’s high-waisted pants (or is it a bandage? “They’re high-waisted pants” Mr. Kaplan said), and Princess Leia’s majestic capes in “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” (“She has two,” he added).

How do you dress a Jedi?

The old movies looked to Japan. The original costume designers looked at a lot of ninja clothes. They looked at westerns. And they looked at W.W. II and a little bit at W.W. I. I went to the same sources they did. I didn’t want to reinvent “Star Wars.” I wanted to embrace it and update it.

Which was your favorite “Star Wars” costume?
Praetorian guard. We looked at 1950s muscle cars. The costumes had to be on stuntmen who were fighting very hard. They use weapons and they need to have complete range of motion. And if these guys fall, you don’t want the armor cracking. And the helmets look like they have no way of seeing, but there’s actually tiny slits, and they can see out perfectly well. They’re very samurai, very Japanese, but very clean. Very “Star Wars.”

What was Carrie Fisher like to work with?
She commented on everything. But whenever she was talking, there was laughter. She referred to her costume in Episode 7 as her Sunoco gas station attendant costume. For “The Last Jedi,” the director Rian Johnson wanted her to look more regal. I got a really lovely letter from him, saying, “You made her look so beautiful in these costumes for her final film.” It meant a lot.

THE 'STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI' COSTUME DESIGNER LOOKED TO QUEEN ELIZABETH II TO DRESS CARRIE FISHER

Rey's outfit has changed from when she first landed on Ahch-To in "The Force Awakens." What does her new training outfit tell us about her character arc in "The Last Jedi?"
The change is just practicality. We saw her through most of Episode VII wearing her look that was created for the desert and the job she was doing as a scavenger. Then, at the end of that episode, when she knew she was going to be traveling, she had a new look, which ended that film. We see her with Mark [Hamill as Luke Skywalker] and she does have a bag with her and, in that bag, we're assuming there are things that she'll require for the terrain of where she is, like, ponchos for the rain, that will protect her because it's a very rainy climate. Then she sheds some when training with Mark. So it's all just, hopefully, a very organic change that goes from Episode VII into VIII. Then we see her honing down and losing elements and almost becoming a warrior in a very simplified workout look.

When Kylo Ren takes her to Supreme Commander Snoke on the First Order ship, she changes into a draped blue-gray-ish outfit. What does that signify?
Because of what she had been through, she just needed a costume change. And that was basically her look, but we decided to give her more color. She's not in the desert anymore and those desert tones worked for the other environment. Part of it is [it's] just a color that Rey looked beautiful in. Because we do think beyond just practicality. It is a movie and we want people to look good, and that shade of blue-green she was wearing was very complementary.

General Leia Organa is in a less tactical look with regal cape-outfits and very notable jewelry. Where did you look for inspiration for the looks, and what does the change from Episode VII tell us about her?

She was very rough and tumble [in VII] and J.J. [Abrams, "The Force Awakens" director] had his point of view of how he wanted her to [look] as a general commanding the ship, and he loved the idea of her wearing coveralls. Rian wanted her to look more regal, as you said, and more like a princess. So I thought capes were good, especially when she's in the cave and on the battlefield. There are pictures of Queen Elizabeth II wearing a military cape that inspired me. We made all the jewelry. She's wearing one ring from Episode VII, but the rest of the jewelry is all new for Episode VIII. I wanted her to look as beautiful and regal as possible and I think the shape and the cloak she's wearing is very "Star Wars," but very elegant, as well.

She has two costumes that are somewhat similar because they're both capes. One is metallic woven fabric and the other one which is much more simple — a gray-green cape that she wears until the end of the film. I love how it frames her face. Rian loved how it looked when [the camera] hit her face and you just saw her eyes. Toward the end of the film, there's a beautiful shot of her looking above the cape, with just her eyes, with the the collar spiraling around her head and face. It's a beautiful moment.

Why does Vice Admiral Holdo wear a more high-fashion gown [which, editor's note looks amazing from the back], as compared to the rest of the Resistance?
Rian wanted to see her body language and wear something that was close-fitting and yet elegant. I thought we were just going to put her in a uniform, but Rian said, 'No, I want her in a gown.' So, I looked back to the beautiful clothes that Madame Grès did in the '30s and '40s and used this beautiful jersey fabric in this crazy color, which I think is called puce. There's something a little Grecian about it and she was very happy. I think she looks very beautiful.

[SkyStar]

So cool that we now have a thread for costumes! Thank you @Snufkin.

I loved Holdo's costume, and the way the soft fabric fell in these classical lines. The Grecian comparison is spot on because her soft and yet wavy voluminous hairstyle in combination with the dress draping reminds me of an Ionic or even Corinthian order/column.
And then all the movies, like in Kubrick's Spartacus Jean Simmons wore a similar dress (and a cape, we missed Holdo with a cape!) and everything had such a prominent draping in soft waves and yet clear lines like in Classical architecture.

And I think Rey's outfit also features this hint to classical in the way the blue-grey fabric falls from her outfit - it is much softer the coarse-textured, gauze-like fabric she wore in TFA. Even the rough looking west outfit in the beginning of TLJ. Her outfit when she meets Kylo is much more delicate in structure - the lines that fell as drapes from her are is a totally more Doric order/column, and yet it still gives a bit of sensibility. And what is more important - the outfit feels like Rey. A change of heart, not only the outfit.

[Saracene]

I looooved Leia's clothes (and hair) in TLJ. Thank god they put her into something elegant this time around.

[Night Huntress]

Leia looked literally like a Queen. She was so graceful... and I loved Holdo's outfit too. Somehow I had the impression it was also a hidden message. Just because she looked different and "girly" with that dress and purple hair doesn't mean she is less competent for her position.

regarding Kylo's high-waste pants. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it was a practical decision. I remember in the "behind the scenes" special from TFA that Adam was wearing suspenders...I guess because otherwise his pants would slide down during all the movements in the fight scenes.
So making them fit higher on his waist makes sense to me. That's why I prefer high waist working pants during sport as well  

But I have to say I loved Kylo's outfit in TLJ...even the cape a lot of people here seemed to hate. I just looks outstanding on Adams tall, broad frame.

[SkyStar]

Leia looked literally like a Queen. She was so graceful... and I loved Holdo's outfit too. Somehow I had the impression it was also a hidden message. Just because she looked different and "girly" with that dress and purple hair doesn't mean she is less competent for her position.

regarding Kylo's high-waste pants. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it was a practical decision. I remember in the "behind the scenes" special from TFA that Adam was wearing suspenders...I guess because otherwise his pants would slide down during all the movements in the fight scenes.
So making them fit higher on his waist makes sense to me. That's why I prefer high waist working pants during sport as well  

But I have to say I loved Kylo's outfit in TLJ...even the cape a lot of people here seemed to hate. I just looks outstanding on Adams tall, broad frame.

@Night Huntress

Yeah, the costume figured Adam's figure very well. I preferred because we could see his neck and that changed the perception of his face and also it was more relaxed. He could move freely and it showed.
From the TFA I definitely loved the cowl it was sexy in a different way then the TLJ costume. But with the cape we had that A++ cape drop.

[Rei of Sunshine]

Costumes speak alot about the character and their development, and we clearly see that with Kylo, Rey and Luke in TLJ.

As always, Kylo is a favorite because whatever he cannot express in words he shows through action and anything about his past and personality that we do not know is shown through his clothing. He's so extra and goth and I love it.

Rey OTOH is the complete opposite of him, choosing practicality, but also holding on to trauma and denial. Her change of clothes in TLJ actually reflect her journey in the movie. Her second outfit with the vest is reminiscent of Han, and could reflect how she wants to try and become someone else by donning a new appearance. She thinks she's a Resistance hero now, but Luke sees through her right away, and so does Kylo. Her vest get up was more of a costume and a cover up for who she really is. But when she went to Kylo, we see her in an outdit similar to her Jakku gear. Similar to what she wore in hoping to hold on to her childhood and dream of a family. I think her new gear actually reflects how she's somewhat accepted her past. Her being a nobody. But newer and better.

She's no longer a Resistance wannabe in that grey vest, she's now proud Rey of Jakku in her new and improved gear.

It's a subtle but a really good representation for her journey.

Maybe there will be improvements in her costume in Ep 9, but it will probably still resemble her drapey dress. Kylo OTOH will still transition from his Supreme Leader look to something simple in the end of 9

[snufkin]

This thread brought courtesy of fashion writer Rebecca Pahle tweeting about Montgomery Clift's rain cape in the 1949 adaption of Henry James' The Heiress!

I present for your approval Montgomery Clift wearing a rain cape in The Heiress (1949). pic.twitter.com/2oa6u0LRL8

— Rebecca Pahle (@RebeccaPahle) January 18, 2018

Best Star Wars cape ever?


This is pre-TLJ, but RANKING THE SWEET SPACE CAPES OF STAR WARS



Even if Leia's capes were inspired by QE2's 2010 photo shoot, I still think she looks like the classic Blackgama, "what becomes a legend most" ads.

Also I'm just sorry that we didn't get to see pre-fall to Darkness Ben. Because I'd thought that he would be a before and after, like frumpy with bad hair under Luke's tutelage and part of how Snoke lures him over is with a makeover, hairstyling, and more stylish clothing. Although LOL at the inspiration for Hux's outfit being  Thierry Mugler because what was the comment about how he looks like he's perpetually coming down off of a coke bender?

From Haute Couture to Hot Rods: 'The Last Jedi' Costume Designer on His Inspiration

What I noticed straight off from the first scene with General Hux (Domhnall Gleeson), the First Order leader, was his very stylized, tailored black-on-black look with high-waist trousers. It had a very 1940s uniform feel, but also felt futuristic.

It’s not just Hux, his costume is unique to him, but there are other costumes that are similar. Besides World War II uniforms, because I didn’t want to copy Nazi uniforms, I thought a lot about the silhouettes of Thierry Mugler in the '80s and '90s. He’s a brilliant designer. I love his tailoring, I love the sharp lines and the severe silhouettes with heroic-looking shoulders, so that was something that also came into Hux’s design. And also the simplicity of the dark grays and blacks together, and the simplicity of just a beautiful silver belt buckle.

[MrsWindu]

Great topic! I love looking at costume design in films. I don’t know if this has been bought up somewhere on this forum before but I was intrigue by a piece of concept design for Rey- back when she was called Kira. The blurb says it was to be a more direct homage to Han/ fallen father figure.

[vaderito]

I love the mirroring between Rey and Kylo and their outfit. I just love that he's a Medieval Knight/Prince like Jon Snow. I love rey's flowing scavenger costume. I'd prefer if her Jedi costume didn't have scavenger drapes.

I absolutely hate the Resistance costumes. Finn and Poe look like Poor Man's Han Cosplayers. Do we really need 2 interchangeable Han wannabes? I also hate it that Resistance and FO use exactly the same iconography (including costumes) as OT. Boring.

Leai's 2 robes were neat.

Hefner Snoke was awesome

Holdo sucked.

[snufkin]

@MrsWindu I'm not a fan of her Tom's shoes look, glad she stayed in boots.  And being a more overt influence by Han would definitely be weird as she spends most of the film in a sort of courtship and awakening sexuality/romance with his son!

Speaking of capes, isn't there a gag in Empire's End that one of Ben's baby presents from Lando was a cape? Maybe that's where it got started, more from the scoundrel than Darkside part of his lineage?

[vaderito]

When it comes to costumes, PT will never be surpassed. I also love that they are doing on Black Panther costume-wise. That movie's going to be a feast for eyes (MBJ and Chadwick fighting shirtless included) and the Queen is rocking some serious Padme style.

[snufkin]

Solo trailer has capes, but like always, Lando is the best dressed

[Lily Snape]

I love the mirroring between Rey and Kylo and their outfit. I just love that he's a Medieval Knight/Prince like Jon Snow. I love rey's flowing scavenger costume. I'd prefer if her Jedi costume didn't have scavenger drapes.

I absolutely hate the Resistance costumes. Finn and Poe look like Poor Man's Han Cosplayers. Do we really need 2 interchangeable Han wannabes? I also hate it that Resistance and FO use exactly the same iconography (including costumes) as OT. Boring.

Leai's 2 robes were neat.

Hefner Snoke was awesome

Holdo sucked.

@vaderito

OK, stereotyping here, but I thought they were emphasizing Rey’s femininity more and more throughout the film, and the drapes on her Supremacy/Jedi outfit almost looked like a skirt. Between that and the hair and makeup, she is definitely more girly when she goes to visit Ben—and if this is about (in her case, presumably cisgender heterosexual) sexual awakening as well as the awakening of the Force, I guess a way to show it would be to make her less traditionally boyish or gender-neutral. At the same time, she still has the arm wraps that are her signature look, and a connection between Ben’s costume and hers.

[guardienne]

holdo and leia seemed out of place on a battleship, they looked like they'd been picked up coming from a soiree of some kind. like, i appreciate the resistance is all about non-uniformity (which is in itself a kind of uniformity) but, crikey, at least wear something practical for command. the lower-ranking lady officer with the curly hair had that memo, why not you.

i also wondered whether the whole of the resistance budget went into fancy hospital gowns for leia. seeing as they didn't have fuel.

LOVED luke's sharp battle outfit. it was ON POINT. and rey's grey outfit. the fabric looked nice.

[guardienne]

i mean, he doesn't lose it carelessly or anything, i just see a lot of merch with pic of his helmet, so i was wondering. what d'y'all think?

[rawpowah]

I'm personally glad it's gone and I can enjoy Adam's great acting. I don't think it's made Kylo less iconic. He's probably the most interesting character left in the ST, and he's been getting a lot more attention from fans and critics after TLJ.

I'll be extremely annoyed if JJ puts him back in a helmet for IX.

[snufkin]

Hair > Helmet. And helmet ultimately was about trying to hide besides a persona, which they've said is about stripping the layers (literally when Rey walks in on him undressed) of the young man underneath it.

Besides, he still has his bitchin' light saber and the gloves were way more iconic in TLJ when it comes to costume supporting character.

[SheLitAFire]

i mean, he doesn't lose it carelessly or anything, i just see a lot of merch with pic of his helmet, so i was wondering. what d'y'all think?

@guardienne

The thread about Kylo's helmet has been merged with the general costumes thread.

[guardienne]

i mean, he doesn't lose it carelessly or anything, i just see a lot of merch with pic of his helmet, so i was wondering. what d'y'all think?

@guardienne

The thread about Kylo's helmet has been merged with the general costumes thread.

@SheLitAFire

ok!

[snufkin]

I'm going to bump this up because can we talk about Dark Rey's aesthetics & fashion influences?
I don't really care one way or the other about the vision or not vision discussion. I'd prefer being surprised while watching the movie. But I'm 100% here for discussing that look. My personal reaction is that she looks so f*****ng hot and powerful, whatever's going on there, she's gonna unleash Hell. Whether it's all the trauma and rage she's been holding back. Or finally channeling her powers to maximum capacity, I'm here for it. Remember the Interview Magazine conversation where Carrie told Daisy, "Don't let them force you into a slave outfit. If they try anything like that [which we know what a misogynistic PoS Richard Marquand was to her about Leia], you fight it." Dark Rey is 100% what Carrie would've approved of. It's about both her power and her femininity and which as women, we frequently get shamed into hiding or repressing. One reading of it is that it represents all the parts Rey keeps hidden from herself and others. Ones which come out when she's around Ben. There's been some not surprising hand-wringing about "what about the little girls??" comments that's the obligatory misogynistic purity culture nonsense trying to Trojan Horse as morality or feminism. Fashion has always been part of how Leia expresses/represents herself in terms of her position, style, and taste. With Padme, my personal take is that the costuming overwhelmed the character. But with Leia, especially in the ST and Michael Kaplans' work, it adds another layer to telling the story about who this woman is. Which is why I'm "f**k yes, please bring this one and for the love of God I want to see Ben's reaction." Circling back to the OT, part of Marquand's justification for Leia's costumes being skimpier/male gaze was he thought her Bespin Outfit was ugly. Which is bullshit, it's her most beautiful/powerful look and notice how she's wearing a version of it in the trailer? Kasdan's script notes say that Han is "gaga" when he sees her in it and can't take his eyes off of her. The red color also signals that their relationship has crossed over into intimacy, including the red ribbons (Red String of Fate? We see Rey with one on her hand) woven into her hair. Leia loves/loses Han, kicks a** and takes control of the escape/Luke's rescue in that outfit. So IDK what movie Marquand was watching. But he didn't know what he was talking about hating that costume. When I look at that image for Dark Rey, what I see is her version of Leia's Bespin Costume. Especially as a friend pointed out to me, the handful shots in both TFA and TLJ where Rey looks absolutely stunning are all in the scenes where she's with Ben and we're meant to see her from his PoV.

I do wish that I knew more about design or fashion and would love to hear more if anybody has experience with the costuming side, especially history, in relation to this look. My immediate thoughts are that besides having obvious references to Darksiders and Padme's RotS dress is the cut of that robe and sleeves over a form fitting/flattering dress is she's wearing a peignoir noir set. If you watch the HD version of the trailer, the sleeves are definitely constructed from chiffon. But the sleeves being chiffon and that cut, I kept thinking it looked familiar and then remembered the old vintage lingerie photos Christina Hendricks did for GQ UK. The way the robe hangs from Rey's shoulders and the drapey cut of the sleeves absolutely reminded me of these photos. Also selfishly I'm glad that they let this moment drop now because while her costumes so far have been lovely, the all white pseudo Padme athleisure look in combination with the costumes they're showing for the Resistance are so blah. Like without Leia around, can we have some high fashion in space? Especially after some of the gorgeous costuming Lando and Qi'ra wore in Solo?

[Armadeus]

Because I'm a metalhead and this is how my brain works, Rey's get-up sorta reminds me of some of the all-black outfits worn by Simone Simons of symphonic metal band Epica.

[snufkin]

@Armadeus There was a joke floating around on Twitter that Rey looks like her new friends from summer camp gave her a goth makeover and a mixtape to go with it. But you're right on the money with that look, it's being a witch. Not the hippie or Stevie Nicks type but Rey could be a Bene Gesserit in that outfit.

[Armadeus]

@snufkin

That could be a Bene Gesserit look. Maybe Villeneuve should take a few notes for those upcoming movies and TV series.

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