Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Gemini wrote:

Atenais wrote:This poster is so beautiful. What are they trying to tell us???!!!

@Atenais

Omg I just saw palpatine peeking at us lawd, at the bottom.

These posters are not official, I thought. They are fan artwork that SW Twitter like and post?

@Gemini

Yes, he looks like a voyeur, if you ask me.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.

@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.

@FrolickingFizzgig

You're not wrong but I originally said that the outcome of Rey's story is not romance or family with Ben. I said it in reference to reasons why people can ignore Reylo because they will see the story's goal through the personal goal of a protagonist. It's one thing if the end will be framed as a tradegy. But if it won't? That will mean that Ben's death is not a tradegy for Rey who was looking for belonging - so it means that Ben wasn't her belonging. This is problematic for me because it's messed up thematically.

@special_cases
Yes, well, my point is that while the ending is certainly not what I wanted, I'm not going to twist it into its most negative and perplexing version when it doesn't even apply to the creators' vision. I'm seeing a lot of this and while I respect that people are disappointed (I am as well on several levels) it's one thing to go from "Ben Solo's love saves Rey and in love and honour for him she lives on in his stead" (the actual point of the ending they're trying to tell) to "Rey steals the legacy and Reylo never mattered bc she'll get a boyfriend in comics 5 years from now" (essentially what you're trying to push).

@FrolickingFizzgig

I can't even see how they'd give Rey an SO after Ben, like he/she would always be second choice and likely reviled by fans. She'll probably end up alone.

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene
She's going to kiss him/they're going to kiss, so yes, that's a pretty massive confirmation. This is a film for families and the gesture has an obvious meaning that will be pushed throughout the film. This is Rey's one on-the-lips kiss. That's a pretty big deal for the first female protagonist in Star Wars in an era where romance for heroines is somewhat condemned. Daisy called their relationship "love-hate" and John said Rey was interested in someone in the film. JJ said that Rey's connection with Kylo was the emotional heart of the story. None of this makes sense without reciprocation.

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene

THIS. And I really wish to know it: if her romantic feelings for him will be clear or just hinted. Because if it was just hinted... It will be even worse than I expected.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.

@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.

@FrolickingFizzgig

You're not wrong but I originally said that the outcome of Rey's story is not romance or family with Ben. I said it in reference to reasons why people can ignore Reylo because they will see the story's goal through the personal goal of a protagonist. It's one thing if the end will be framed as a tradegy. But if it won't? That will mean that Ben's death is not a tradegy for Rey who was looking for belonging - so it means that Ben wasn't her belonging. This is problematic for me because it's messed up thematically.

@special_cases
Yes, well, my point is that while the ending is certainly not what I wanted, I'm not going to twist it into its most negative and perplexing version when it doesn't even apply to the creators' vision. I'm seeing a lot of this and while I respect that people are disappointed (I am as well on several levels) it's one thing to go from "Ben Solo's love saves Rey and in love and honour for him she lives on in his stead" (the actual point of the ending they're trying to tell) to "Rey steals the legacy and Reylo never mattered bc she'll get a boyfriend in comics 5 years from now" (essentially what you're trying to push).

@FrolickingFizzgig

We were discussing what people will say, that's how the conversation started. Nobody said that Reylo never mattered, just that there are mixed messages here and certain people will use it. I personally don't understand how creators can frame it differently from a tradegy, because it seems like a personal tradegy for Rey?

Atenais wrote:

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene

THIS. And I really wish to know it: if her romantic feelings for him will be clear or just hinted. Because if it was just hinted... It will be even worse than I expected.

@Atenais

Yes,exactly. For Ben's sacrfice to have meaning for the audience it shoukd be made clear that Rey loves him back. They mgith not care but for the character's arc even if this is proof of his sefless love for her the movie not making it clear that the feelings are reciprocated makes his ending even more depressing than it already possibly is.

CienaRee wrote:

Atenais wrote:

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene

THIS. And I really wish to know it: if her romantic feelings for him will be clear or just hinted. Because if it was just hinted... It will be even worse than I expected.

@Atenais

Yes,exactly. For Ben's sacrfice to have meaning for the audience it shoukd be made clear that Rey loves him back. They mgith not care but for the character's arc even if this is proof of his sefless love for her the movie not making it clear that the feelings are reciprocated makes his ending even more depressing than it already possibly is.

@CienaRee

TBH, I doubt they'd have a kiss that wasn't reciprocated, even a little bit.

Moonjump05 wrote:

CienaRee wrote:

Atenais wrote:

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene

THIS. And I really wish to know it: if her romantic feelings for him will be clear or just hinted. Because if it was just hinted... It will be even worse than I expected.

@Atenais

Yes,exactly. For Ben's sacrfice to have meaning for the audience it shoukd be made clear that Rey loves him back. They mgith not care but for the character's arc even if this is proof of his sefless love for her the movie not making it clear that the feelings are reciprocated makes his ending even more depressing than it already possibly is.

@CienaRee

TBH, I doubt they'd have a kiss that wasn't reciprocated, even a little bit.

@Moonjump05
Indeed, there's no chance it'll be unreciprocated between these characters in particular. I'm even quite certain that she initiates it after she has come back to life, as she is always the one who initiates anything bordering on romantic between them.

Doesn't mean dumb fanboys won't try to argue that she never really loved him, but their perspectives will fall totally flat as always. I genuinely don't care what the stupidest side of the fandom has to say about anything. These are idiots who tried to say the "hand touch", Rey staring at Ben like a snack in the elevator and seeing him shirtless weren't romantic moments - much to the disagreement of the writer/director and actors, haha.

Moonjump05 wrote:

CienaRee wrote:

Atenais wrote:

Saracene wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend ) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I guess we’ll see soon how it all plays out, but it’s in fact possible for this story to happen exactly the same way without Rey ever reciprocating Kylo’s feelings back. I mean, his feelings are clearly all-important to his arc and drive his actions and Rey gets to live as a result of *his* love, but is the reverse really true? Of course she’ll grieve for him because how can you possibly not be moved by what he does, but she doesn’t need to love him back. Even her taking on the name Skywalker can be interpreted as a gesture of gratitude towards the entire family, rather than because of her love for Ben specifically.

@Saracene

THIS. And I really wish to know it: if her romantic feelings for him will be clear or just hinted. Because if it was just hinted... It will be even worse than I expected.

@Atenais

Yes,exactly. For Ben's sacrfice to have meaning for the audience it shoukd be made clear that Rey loves him back. They mgith not care but for the character's arc even if this is proof of his sefless love for her the movie not making it clear that the feelings are reciprocated makes his ending even more depressing than it already possibly is.

@CienaRee

TBH, I doubt they'd have a kiss that wasn't reciprocated, even a little bit.

@Moonjump05

No,I agree it's actually one of the things I'm looking forward to see the antis's reaction to since they're already trying to pass off the kiss as either fake or without consent si ce they think ben will be kissing a corpse apparently.

Yeah, lol, I don’t get this line of thinking. I had doubts about reciprocated Reylo before, but an on-the-lips kiss leaves no room for doubt. They would never do that in a million years if she didn’t like him back. Which will make it all the more tragic when she loses him. Rey initiates everything in that relationship so she’ll probably be the one to kiss him first (I’ll be very surprised if it’s Ben, but who knows). And there will also probably be more context and hints leading up to it in the movie than what the leaks show, which means attraction on her part.

I actually think that GA and critics will adore Reylo and especially Ben after this movie. Just that we still won't be free from most twisted takes in current fandom which will become popular.

I already imagine a leaked super crap quality camera filmed “rey and kylo kiss” video trending. Muhaha.

@SkyStar I'm sure that will be one of the first (if not the first) videos that will leak in potato quality from the theater.

special_cases wrote:I actually think that GA and critics will adore Reylo and especially Ben after this movie. Just that we still won't be free from most twisted takes in current fandom which will become popular.

@special_cases

Me too. Remember how crazy the GA went for Reylo in the throne room? I saw a twitter thread the other day asking about the most hype cinema moments for audiences and a lot of people were listing that one. It’s mentioned a lot. Critics loved Reylo too. Like, this guy killed Han Solo and people were still so disappointed that he hadn’t turned back to the light in TLJ. Kylo had a big jump in popularity/favouritism from TFA to TLJ (remember all the whiny emo takes?) and I think TROS will seal the deal even further. Also, the GA LOVES romance. And I can tell just from listening to the soundtrack alone that this will be a very emotional movie. Even if you don’t like Kylo, he climbs out of the pit, finds his beloved dead, and commits the most selfless act of all by healing her and bringing her back to life with his very force essence. He did what Anakin couldn’t.

Also, GA are gonna be really upset when he doesn’t live. They underestimated that one big time.

When did SW go from being about hope to end up so depressing?
And let's face it....just what has Rey really done for Kylo for him to sacrifice his life for her?

Yeah Ben is stealing this whole movie for sure and reylo will be the most talk about part imo. I mean just that clip of Ben with Palpatine voice over got more hype than anything they released in the promo so far. Says it all really

motherofpearl1 wrote:When did SW go from being about hope to end up so depressing?
And let's face it....just what has Rey really done for Kylo for him to sacrifice his life for her?

@motherofpearl1
Rey's faith and belief in him, her support of him and the good person she knows he can be, the fact that she abandons the Resistance after her emotions pour out and she can't stop herself from healing him (possibly in the presence of one of the people he hurt - Finn). She burns his ship in an image of a funeral pyre with her hood up like a nun or a grieving widow. I don't think there will be any doubt that Rey loves him after this film, and in Ben's eyes she will be among those - and, indeed, the major factor - who saved his soul.

Mila95 wrote:Yeah Ben is stealing this whole movie for sure and reylo will be the most talk about part imo. I mean just that clip of Ben with Palpatine voice over got more hype than anything they released in the promo so far. Says it all really

@Mila95

Will anyone even give a f about the trio after this movie, lol? They’re not generating any hype in these trailers and clips at all, which is hilarious given how annoyingly vocal the uwu trio brigade are. Like, Palpatine alone will overshadow them massively, lol. He’s always been a scene stealer. Does Rey even spend that much time with them?

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:When did SW go from being about hope to end up so depressing?
And let's face it....just what has Rey really done for Kylo for him to sacrifice his life for her?

@motherofpearl1
Rey's faith and belief in him, her support of him and the good person she knows he can be, the fact that she abandons the Resistance after her emotions pour out and she can't stop herself from healing him (possibly in the presence of one of the people he hurt - Finn). She burns his ship in an image of a funeral pyre with her hood up like a nun or a grieving widow. I don't think there will be any doubt that Rey loves him after this film, and in Ben's eyes she will be among those - and, indeed, the major factor - who saved his soul.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Truly appreciate your insight.

If Ben dies, I still won't voraciously see the movie (only once a week, most likely, versus a lot), yet I won't view it in a negative way. It's a pleasant mixture of GA & Reylo/Bendemptionist fandom. Obviously not happy about his death, but your insight is truly welcome! Can you now help me accept Rey Palpatine, if that is true?

Kylo Rey wrote:

Mila95 wrote:Yeah Ben is stealing this whole movie for sure and reylo will be the most talk about part imo. I mean just that clip of Ben with Palpatine voice over got more hype than anything they released in the promo so far. Says it all really

@Mila95

Will anyone even give a f about the trio after this movie, lol? They’re not generating any hype in these trailers and clips at all, which is hilarious given how annoyingly vocal the uwu trio brigade are. Like, Palpatine alone will overshadow them massively, lol. He’s always been a scene stealer. Does Rey even spend that much time with them?

@Kylo Rey

always found them boring as a trio but even I'm surprised by how little hype they've generated lol. Tbh I've always felt like all that love for the trio that's been non existent is more about Kylo hate than actual love for them as a group.I doubt they'll spend as much time together as the marketing is trying to make it seem.

Ben's sacrifice will be the most selfless sacrifice ever as previously (like ten minutes ago via screen time) Rey tried to kill him.

Kylo Rey wrote:

Mila95 wrote:Yeah Ben is stealing this whole movie for sure and reylo will be the most talk about part imo. I mean just that clip of Ben with Palpatine voice over got more hype than anything they released in the promo so far. Says it all really

@Mila95

Will anyone even give a f about the trio after this movie, lol? They’re not generating any hype in these trailers and clips at all, which is hilarious given how annoyingly vocal the uwu trio brigade are. Like, Palpatine alone will overshadow them massively, lol. He’s always been a scene stealer. Does Rey even spend that much time with them?

@Kylo Rey
What’s particularly ironic about this is John and Oscar have both had a “Heck no!” reaction to the Disney+ idea in the press tour, and Daisy comes across as meh on coming back even in film. So unless they’re planning on animated series, Houston, they have a problem if they wanted to address it in a non-film, non-animated show way. I don’t think much of a market is there for a ST to the ST in 10-15 years either with just these characters. IA with the idea that Adam is the one I could actually see coming back for a film or two. I don’t really see him in other big blockbuster type movies, but he projects a fondness for SW anyway and his character in particular. Might just depend on how popular he really gets over the next few years.

I read back through all the pages I missed on this thread, and I still keep coming back to no Force ghost. The only ones whose bodies disappeared were Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Luke. All became ghosts. So why in the world would they not show him? I find this so strange that JJ just gave an interview saying they couldn’t leave even a line of dialogue by Rey, Kylo, Finn etc. unexplained, but he leaves the Force ghost unexplained and up in the air? Presumably just in case they do another trilogy? I wonder if some of you are right and we might hear the Force bond noise at the end. Average person wouldn’t even pick up on that on a first viewing, if at all.

Mila95 wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

Mila95 wrote:Yeah Ben is stealing this whole movie for sure and reylo will be the most talk about part imo. I mean just that clip of Ben with Palpatine voice over got more hype than anything they released in the promo so far. Says it all really

@Mila95

Will anyone even give a f about the trio after this movie, lol? They’re not generating any hype in these trailers and clips at all, which is hilarious given how annoyingly vocal the uwu trio brigade are. Like, Palpatine alone will overshadow them massively, lol. He’s always been a scene stealer. Does Rey even spend that much time with them?

@Kylo Rey

always found them boring as a trio but even I'm surprised by how little hype they've generated lol. Tbh I've always felt like all that love for the trio that's been non existent is more about Kylo hate than actual love for them as a group.I doubt they'll spend as much time together as the marketing is trying to make it seem.

@Mila95
Daisy and JJ (and Oscar, I believe) have all been pretty clear that Rey's emotional storyline surrounds something that is not her two friends. Finn and Poe will spend a lot of time together, but they'll be split between accompanying Rey and trying to understand what she's dealing with exactly in her quest for answers from both Kylo and Palpatine's breadcrumbs leading to the death star Wayfinder. Eventually Rey splits off from them entirely and they all have their own story climaxes.

@special_cases She regrets her fall into rage and anger and darkness so much that she heals him despite who he is and the war going on around them, possibly weakening herself quite a bit in the process and then abandons her friends and the Resistance for the very first time. Rey looks absolutely dead inside on Ahch-To. It's a big deal for her character, and a lot of it has to do with her feelings for Ben.

@AcrosstheStars Wasn't that interview with KK done months ago?