Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi: General Discussion - 1

by Helix Thu 29 Dec 2016, 3:52 pm

Reys worth should not be tied to her parents. The whole 'I don't care about her if she's not a Skywalker." thing is awful, it's just a last name. If someone already liked her character, finding out she's not from the bloodline you want shouldn't be a reason to stop liking her. It's very annoying. People say Luke 'deserves' a kid, but what if he doesn't even want any? People just assume.

by Rogue Rey Thu 29 Dec 2016, 4:14 pm

@Saracene I'm not saying that concerns about Rey's story or treatment in the series is baseless, or that her heritage doesn't matter.

What I am concerned with is that people only value her for what or who they think she is - as in Luke's daughter, and that if it turns out she is nothing to do with Luke then they will stop liking or valuing the character because of it.

Rey is worth so much more than who her parents were or weren't.

As for people wondering what Rey's role in the story will be if she's not related to the family the whole saga is based around then they need only look at Obi-wan - he was unrelated but quite possibly the key cog in the machine.

by Saracene Thu 29 Dec 2016, 4:23 pm

Rogue Rey wrote:As for people wondering what Rey's role in the story will be if she's not related to the family the whole saga is based around then they need only look at Obi-wan - he was unrelated but quite possibly the key cog in the machine.

@Rogue Rey

Yeah but Obi-Wan was deliberately a supporting character in someone else's story, whereas Rey is positioned as the lead and supposed to be the main character and a focus, rather than a key cog. Everyone involved made a big deal out of, finally we have a female lead character in Star Wars.

I agree that "I don't care about Rey if she's not a Skywalker" is ehhh, but I don't think that was the point of the article excerpt.

by SanghaRen Thu 29 Dec 2016, 4:52 pm

@Rogue Rey

Your discussion with your Dad is funny because I had a different discussion with my mom just yesterday. She likes Kylo even though she calls him Luke sometimes. She's not good with names and is not a SW fan, but she's somehow fascinated by Kylo. I think mainly for the costume and Adam's broad shoulders Smile

Although I am quite sure she picked on his anguish too without realizing it. Anyways. We never talk about SW, but were talking about his costume yesterday because I am wondering how I could make a similar cowl. She used to sew. She thought that I wanted a full Kylo costume.

Me: No, there are plenty of Kylo's around at every event.
My Mom: Yes, probably. He is a very liked character.
Me: Mostly yes, but there are people who really hate him.
My Mom: What? Why?
Me (a bit surprised): Well, he killed his father, the beloved Han Solo, remember?
My Mom (a bit annoyed): Yes, I remember. So? His father was not really an angel.

And my mom likes Han Solo (even if she doesn't always remember his name neither) and Harrison Ford (she remembers his name). Proof that not everyone is out for Kylo's head on a pike.

by Reylo Lemon Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:07 pm

You do not become a hero for your last name, but making the right decision. that's what SW is all about.

by IoJovi Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:10 pm

SanghaRen wrote:@Rogue Rey

Your discussion with your Dad is funny because I had a different discussion with my mom just yesterday. She likes Kylo even though she calls him Luke sometimes. She's not good with names and is not a SW fan, but she's somehow fascinated by Kylo. I think mainly for the costume and Adam's broad shoulders Although I am quite sure she picked on his anguish too without realizing it. Anyways. We never talk about SW, but were talking about his costume yesterday because I am wondering how I could make a similar cowl. She used to sew. She thought that I wanted a full Kylo costume.

Me: No, there are plenty of Kylo's around at every event.
My Mom: Yes, probably. He is a very liked character.
Me: Mostly yes, but there are people who really hate him.
My Mom: What? Why?
Me (a bit surprised): Well, he killed his father, the beloved Han Solo, remember?
My Mom (a bit annoyed): Yes, I remember. So? His father was not really an angel.

And my mom likes Han Solo (even if she doesn't always remember his name neither) and Harrison Ford (she remembers his name). Proof that not everyone is out for Kylo's head on a pike.

@SanghaRen

I just mentioned in another thread that my husband is very much GA when it comes to Star Wars. He's not one to follow every theory and news article that comes out of the woodwork. I think he's skeptical about Reylo. Personally I think he's a Rey Soloist, although he'd never have the balls to say this to my face. I think he prefers to keep the peace in our marriage... Laughing

When I asked him if he thought Kylo Ren was redeemable, he said he thought it was so over the top obvious that would be a given. He was shocked to hear that so many in other corners of the Internet believe the opposite - he couldn't comprehend it.

by Birdwoman Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:24 pm

My husband and I went to see Rogue One last night. After the movie we were talking Star Wars. He doesn't believe that Rey is related to any of the Skywalkers. He said that it is so obvious Kylo is going to be redeemed and the trilogy was about bringing the last Skywalker to the light side. He finally sees that kylo has a big crush on the cute girl. He thought I was imagining things about Kylo and Rey....but now he sees that there is potential there for a love story.

by Reylo Lemon Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:27 pm

Hooray for your respective husbands cheers

by Rogue Rey Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:27 pm

Maria Antonietta wrote:You do not become a hero for your last name, but making the right decision. that's what SW is all about.

@Maria Antonietta

And Disney for that matter!

by Rogue Rey Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:36 pm

I was just chatting with a guy friend who is now buying into the idea of Kylo Ren redemption, because he thinks it would be the twist the audience doesn't expect. He also is against Rey being Luke's kid because it would be disappointing and easy.

by Saracene Thu 29 Dec 2016, 6:11 pm

IoJovi wrote:I just mentioned in another thread that my husband is very much GA when it comes to Star Wars. He's not one to follow every theory and news article that comes out of the woodwork. I think he's skeptical about Reylo. Personally I think he's a Rey Soloist, although he'd never have the balls to say this to my face. I think he prefers to keep the peace in our marriage...

When I asked him if he thought Kylo Ren was redeemable, he said he thought it was so over the top obvious that would be a given. He was shocked to hear that so many in other corners of the Internet believe the opposite - he couldn't comprehend it.

@IoJovi

I was pretty much GA when I first watched TFA (very casual SW fan, watched the OT ages ago and never since), and I thought that Kylo's future redemption was really bloody obvious. I even kinda complained about how obvious it was in my blog review Smile

by Rogue Rey Thu 29 Dec 2016, 6:21 pm

Bless my guy friend. I just asked him about Reylo and he said it's a bit of a twist but anyone who watches films can see it coming from a mile off and it'd be more of a twist if Kylo Ren married Jar Jar Binks!!! ROFL

He then said that Kylo and Rey would be better than the regular Kylo turns good at the end on his death bed. Thumbs up

He also thinks there's an air of romance with Finn and Poe!!!

by IoJovi Thu 29 Dec 2016, 6:21 pm

Saracene wrote:
IoJovi wrote:I just mentioned in another thread that my husband is very much GA when it comes to Star Wars. He's not one to follow every theory and news article that comes out of the woodwork. I think he's skeptical about Reylo. Personally I think he's a Rey Soloist, although he'd never have the balls to say this to my face. I think he prefers to keep the peace in our marriage...

When I asked him if he thought Kylo Ren was redeemable, he said he thought it was so over the top obvious that would be a given. He was shocked to hear that so many in other corners of the Internet believe the opposite - he couldn't comprehend it.

@IoJovi

I was pretty much GA when I first watched TFA (very casual SW fan, watched the OT ages ago and never since), and I thought that Kylo's future redemption was really bloody obvious. I even kinda complained about how obvious it was in my blog review

@Saracene

It may be obvious to some (like say...pretty much everyone on this board), but it doesn't make me love the character any less. Had he done any worse than killing Han (and let's be honest - killing your father let alone a beloved iconic character is about as low as it goes), his redemption may be too hard to swallow. I already see it being too hard to swallow for some, in spite of the obvious foreshadowing. The main argument I see in other corners is Vader refused to kill family, while Kylo did not. I suppose it could be valid if you ignore the UST between himself and Rey, and the fact it won't be family that saves him this time around.

I still think it's brilliant, even a year later.

by Saracene Thu 29 Dec 2016, 6:43 pm

IoJovi wrote:It may be obvious to some (like say...pretty much everyone on this board), but it doesn't make me love the character any less. Had he done any worse than killing Han (and let's be honest - killing your father let alone a beloved iconic character is about as low as it goes), his redemption may be too hard to swallow. I already see it being too hard to swallow for some, in spite of the obvious foreshadowing. The main argument I see in other corners is Vader refused to kill family, while Kylo did not. I suppose it could be valid if you ignore the UST between himself and Rey, and the fact it won't be family that saves him this time around.

I still think it's brilliant, even a year later.

@IoJovi

I think I mainly complained at the time because of my other beefs and frustrations with TFA after the first watch, in particular the recycling of ideas. Even then though, I singled out Kylo's character as one element of the movie I really liked without reservations; he just worked.

I thought Kylo's redemption was obvious even without picking on the UST or thinking much about how it was going to play out - just from the way it was all set up. I've seen the Vader comparisons too, but I think it's rather pointless to view the characters strictly from the killed family/didn't kill family perspective and ignore the differences in the setup. For one thing, killing Luke was never positioned as a loyalty/strength test for Vader, and his crunch time is about "can I watch my son die" rather than "can I bring myself to kill my son", which also happens in the climatic scene of the third film rather than the first.

by snufkin Thu 29 Dec 2016, 7:27 pm

IoJovi wrote:The main argument I see in other corners is Vader refused to kill family, while Kylo did not.

Snoke must hang out on those other corners (which makes sense because he seems like an OT diehard) because that was the test for Kylo, could he kill his father. The whole point between the OT and PT is that Luke's the only family member who didn't get killed thanks to Vader. Which makes him an even more ridiculous hypocrite because it starts out wanting to save his mom and ends up responsible for the murders of his wife, his best friend/older brother figure, step-brother and step sister-in-law, and daughter's adoptive father (not to mention psychological abuse of daughter and physical abuse of son-in-law).

by snufkin Fri 30 Dec 2016, 2:35 pm

Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.

by panki Fri 30 Dec 2016, 2:39 pm

snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.

@snufkin

His initials would be B.O Shocked

.... lol....I love Kylo as a character but I couldn't resist..... Razz

But jokes apart, I do like the idea of Leia's family following a matrimonial tradition.

by IoJovi Fri 30 Dec 2016, 2:40 pm

snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.

@snufkin

To be fair, I've seen him called both Ben Organa and Ben Solo. Interesting enough, Pablo has stated that his official birth name has not been confirmed.

I'm wondering if we'll find out when Aftermath comes out in February. Leia was only weeks from giving birth when Life Debt ended.

by ISeeAnIsland Fri 30 Dec 2016, 3:24 pm

IoJovi wrote:
snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.
@snufkin

To be fair, I've seen him called both Ben Organa and Ben Solo. Interesting enough, Pablo has stated that his official birth name has not been confirmed.

I'm wondering if we'll find out when Aftermath comes out in February. Leia was only weeks from giving birth when Life Debt ended.

@IoJovi

Yeah, I've always taken that tweet from Pablo about Ben's official birth name not being revealed yet meaning that it's not going to be a straight up "Ben Solo". But I also have no problem referring to him as "Ben Solo" until we know differently.

by IoJovi Fri 30 Dec 2016, 3:30 pm

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.
@snufkin

To be fair, I've seen him called both Ben Organa and Ben Solo. Interesting enough, Pablo has stated that his official birth name has not been confirmed.

I'm wondering if we'll find out when Aftermath comes out in February. Leia was only weeks from giving birth when Life Debt ended.
@IoJovi

Yeah, I've always taken that tweet from Pablo about Ben's official birth name not being revealed yet meaning that it's not going to be a straight up "Ben Solo". But I also have no problem referring to him as "Ben Solo" until we know differently.

@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah I too don't believe he's going to be called Ben Solo at the end of the day. That said, when you say the name, everyone knows who you're talking about.

I will still proudly wear my SAVE BEN SOLO shirt at Star Wars Celebration. It will get the point across, and that's what matters... Laughing

by Reylo Lemon Fri 30 Dec 2016, 3:39 pm

IoJovi wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.
@snufkin

To be fair, I've seen him called both Ben Organa and Ben Solo. Interesting enough, Pablo has stated that his official birth name has not been confirmed.

I'm wondering if we'll find out when Aftermath comes out in February. Leia was only weeks from giving birth when Life Debt ended.
@IoJovi

Yeah, I've always taken that tweet from Pablo about Ben's official birth name not being revealed yet meaning that it's not going to be a straight up "Ben Solo". But I also have no problem referring to him as "Ben Solo" until we know differently.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah I too don't believe he's going to be called Ben Solo at the end of the day. That said, when you say the name, everyone knows who you're talking about.

I will still proudly wear my SAVE BEN SOLO shirt at Star Wars Celebration. It will get the point across, and that's what matters...

@IoJovi

Why Ben Solo is a problem?

by Jakku Fri 30 Dec 2016, 4:17 pm

Leia took her father's name - he was born into the Organa Family. Bail Organa married Breha Antilles. So there's no matrilinear tradition.

He's Ben Solo. Leia was still Leia Organa because that's her professional name, like many women who were successful before they married.

by snufkin Fri 30 Dec 2016, 4:22 pm

panki wrote:
snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.
@snufkin

His initials would be B.O .... lol....I love Kylo as a character but I couldn't resist..... But jokes apart, I do like the idea of Leia's family following a matrimonial tradition.

@panki

With initials like that, no wonder he turned to the DS. I just think it's interesting because technically his Force powers come from a matrilinial line via Leia and starting with his paternal grandmother.

by IoJovi Fri 30 Dec 2016, 4:24 pm

Maria Antonietta wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:
IoJovi wrote:
snufkin wrote:Have We All Been Calling Kylo Ren From ‘Star Wars’ The Wrong Name?

if House Organa is the house of Breha Organa and her daughter Leia, it stands to reason that even without Alderaan as a seat of power, Leia would want to embrace the traditions of her home world. Which is how we end up with General Leia Organa and her son, Ben Organa.
@snufkin

To be fair, I've seen him called both Ben Organa and Ben Solo. Interesting enough, Pablo has stated that his official birth name has not been confirmed.

I'm wondering if we'll find out when Aftermath comes out in February. Leia was only weeks from giving birth when Life Debt ended.
@IoJovi

Yeah, I've always taken that tweet from Pablo about Ben's official birth name not being revealed yet meaning that it's not going to be a straight up "Ben Solo". But I also have no problem referring to him as "Ben Solo" until we know differently.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah I too don't believe he's going to be called Ben Solo at the end of the day. That said, when you say the name, everyone knows who you're talking about.

I will still proudly wear my SAVE BEN SOLO shirt at Star Wars Celebration. It will get the point across, and that's what matters...
@IoJovi

Why Ben Solo is a problem?

@Maria Antonietta

I don't think it's a problem - it just hasn't been confirmed that's his actual birth name. His last name could be Skywalker for all we know.

We shall see!

by Helix Fri 30 Dec 2016, 4:29 pm

Well Pablo did say he was the Skywalker of this generation. I guess that would be a good reason to hide it? Yay, Mystery Box. Razz

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