ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi: General Discussion - 1

"Difficult to see...always in motion the future is. Hmmm"

Welcome to the place to wonder and speculate about the (hopefully Reylo) directions of Episode VIII. What can you foresee or would like to see happen in the next installment of this trilogy?

80's-tastic training montages with Kylo and Rey?
A new mask, new saber, and more focused Kylo Ren, or a hot mess Kylo unravelling slowly as the film progresses? Por que no los dos??
Will Rey flirt with the dark side? *wink wink*
Will there be a Force kiss?

Reply below to share your thoughts!

A lot of people talk about movies being broken into three acts. It might be interesting to speculate on the "act breakdown" for VIII. Here's my speculation:

Act I
The training montage. Rey trains with Luke, and learns more about Ben's past and Luke's reasons for going into exile. They will struggle as teacher-student--while she will learn, she will not reach her full potential with him. Meanwhile, Kylo trains with Snoke, but his faith in the Dark Side has been shattered. His relationship with Snoke is breaking down, though perhaps he manages to hide it.

The Resistance has a Plan. I don't know what the plan is. But at the end of the act, Luke and Rey are called into action.

Act II
The Resistance plan moves forward. Snoke sends Kylo in (or Kylo/Phasma, or Kylo/Hux, or Kylo/KoR). There is some kind of pursuit, they nearly miss each other a couple times. As Rey learns more about Ben, she is confused.

If the rebellion/mutiny storyline is true, this is the point when it happens.

Act III
No clue what will happen with the Finn/Poe thread. But for the Kylo/Rey thread:

The moment of truth. The confrontation between Kylo and Rey happens. It's a glorious fight, one that Kylo might win this time. His motivations are unclear (to Rey). But then, the KoR appear (or Hux, or Phasma) and when the battle would definitively go against Rey, Kylo does his heel face turn (perhaps a portion of which we saw in the rainy force vision).

The film ends with no one quite knowing where the stand with each other anymore.

Does anyone expect a Reylo kiss in the next film? Part of me thinks it would be way too soon, but then it also mirrors the previous trilogies. Anidala moved quickly from the beginning of AoTC, whereas Han and Leia kissed even while she was still thinking 'ugh, you're such a scoundrel'

The other option for a kiss would be between Finn and his new LI but because they're not the core couple - I doubt there will be an incredible amount of conflict between them beyond perhaps some light bickering/rivalry - it wouldn't have the same dramatic impact.

Force vision or dream kiss all the way, if there is anything between Rey and Kylo. I don't see them reaching even "uncomfortable ally" until IX, so imaginary is the only kind of kiss I can fathom. Plus, it would be comedy gold to see Rey's reaction.

You are right, and I would kill to see a little smile on Kylo's lips! Even if the kiss isn't real, it would be shocking enough of a twist for most of the audience. They wouldn't even have to explicitly debunk Rey as a Skywalker at that point, it would reassert Ben Solo as the legacy character and have more riding on his redemption.

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I think there isn't going to be a training montage. There are so many characters and so much going on that the film will have to be very tightly plotted. If we see any training, it will be very short, IMO. And we don't even know yet whether Luke will train Rey at all. We just assume he will...

I'd love to see some trippy Force bond experiences, though.

Now, I realise this is a bold prediction but I personally think that not only will Ren show up on Ahch-To (as has been rumoured, though surprisingly little has been made of that rumour?), he will save Rey from the Knights of Ren (as per the vision), and the two of them will be separated from Luke somehow, ending up on a separate shared quest or survival struggle of their own (Letter Never Sent for two, anyone?).

My reasons for believing this aren't entirely headcanon. There's also:

- the rumour that Adam will be shooting with Daisy in Ireland without Mark, and this shoot will be somehow connected to the lightsaber vision of the Knights of Ren in the rain

- the Kerry shoot has two characters walking and talking, presumably towards the "village" set on Ceann Sibéal in the distance; only two characters, mind

- the area of the "walking and talking" shoot is, I think, located in a spot called Waymont that looks startlingly like the rocky landscape of the vision (I'm not allowed to post links for some reason, but go to www (.) flickr (.) com /photos/davidjherman/22123951578/ and remove the spaces and brackets)

- the rain and lightning in the vision may be a Force storm, which is a phenomenon Tython (which I believe to be the precursor to Ahch-To) is known for, and which would certainly occasion a struggle for survival... not to mention that such a violent phenomenon might be a convenient means of separating Rey from Luke and forcing (pun totes intended) her to become "uncomfortable allies" with Ren

I await news of the Ireland shoots with much eagerness, though not with bated breath, as I suspect these locations will be vigilantly guarded

Force vision/bond/dream kiss. Approx. 47 min in.

@AnneNeville I could see a cliffhanger at the end of Ep. 8 in which Rey is seen departing with Kylo, who has just beaten her in a lightsaber duel and has shared information with her (perhaps about her identity?) the audience is not privy to. We are left to believe she has perhaps joined the Dark Side as well as still wondering who she is, so lots of suspense for the next movie. And yes, her reaction to the imaginary kiss would be priceless!

@Darth Dingleberry Maybe there won't be an actual montage, but I do think that some of the early portion of the film with deal with Kylo and Rey's training, even if it is just a nod that it has happened/been happening.

The idea of Kylo and the KoR showing up on Ach-To is exciting, and so is the idea of him saving her during an attack. I just don't know how the story would go if that happened during Act I (which is why I saved his rescuing Rey for an Act III climax). If he rescues her on Ach-To, what will happen to bring them together with the rest of the characters in Acts II and III?

I think your supporting points are compelling, and Ach-To seems more likely than Dubrovnik for that fight in the rain. I just don't know how to imagine the "shape" of the story if the rescue comes too soon.

@Darth Dingleberry, smart. During which act of the movie do you see this taking place?

AnneNeville wrote:@Darth Dingleberry Maybe there won't be an actual montage, but I do think that some of the early portion of the film with deal with Kylo and Rey's training, even if it is just a nod that it has happened/been happening.

The idea of Kylo and the KoR showing up on Ach-To is exciting, and so is the idea of him saving her during an attack. I just don't know how the story would go if that happened during Act I (which is why I saved his rescuing Rey for an Act III climax). If he rescues her on Ach-To, what will happen to bring them together with the rest of the characters in Acts II and III?

I think your supporting points are compelling, and Ach-To seems more likely than Dubrovnik for that fight in the rain. I just don't know how to imagine the "shape" of the story if the rescue comes too soon.

That's the beauty of it, though, IMO. There's no way to guess how the story would go. We'll be surprised no matter what

I guess I envision it in LOTR terms, with Rey and Ren on a desperate quest like Frodo and Sam, and Luke as Gandalf to the Resistance group. Most people are expecting Luke to have babygirl bonding time with Rey on Ahch-To, but I think being separated from Rey would give him a much more interesting role to play than campfire chats about the Force and his youthful affair with Mara Jade.

@MeadowofAshes: if I had to place a bet, I'd say Act I...

Darth Dingleberry wrote:I realise this is a bold prediction but I personally think that not only will Ren show up on Ahch-To (as has been rumoured, though surprisingly little has been made of that rumour?), he will save Rey from the Knights of Ren (as per the vision), and the two of them will be separated from Luke somehow, ending up on a separate shared quest or survival struggle of their own (Letter Never Sent for two, anyone?).

My reasons for believing this aren't entirely headcanon. There's also:

- the rumour that Adam will be shooting with Daisy in Ireland without Mark, and this shoot will be somehow connected to the lightsaber vision of the Knights of Ren in the rain

- the Kerry shoot has two characters walking and talking, presumably towards the "village" set on Ceann Sibéal in the distance; only two characters, mind

- the area of the "walking and talking" shoot is, I think, located in a spot called Waymont that looks startlingly like the rocky landscape of the vision (I'm not allowed to post links for some reason, but go to www (.) flickr (.) com /photos/davidjherman/22123951578/ and remove the spaces and brackets)

- the rain and lightning in the vision may be a Force storm, which is a phenomenon Tython (which I believe to be the precursor to Ahch-To) is known for, and which would certainly occasion a struggle for survival... not to mention that such a violent phenomenon might be a convenient means of separating Rey from Luke and forcing (pun totes intended) her to become "uncomfortable allies" with Ren

I await news of the Ireland shoots with much eagerness, though not with bated breath, as I suspect these locations will be vigilantly guarded

5-star post! I hope that you're right. I've thought for a long time that Rey's Force vision shows a moment in the future where Ren will save her from one of his own. And I think that Ren, having seen the island in Rey's mind, will show up on Ahch-To.

What hadn't occurred to me until reading your post was the possibility of Ren and Rey ending up working together in ep VIII on a common quest. I can almost hear their snarky repartee already. The gradual lowering of the shields. The chemistry, the tension...Oh that would be so, so awesome.

BastilaBey wrote:Does anyone expect a Reylo kiss in the next film? Part of me thinks it would be way too soon, but then it also mirrors the previous trilogies. Anidala moved quickly from the beginning of AoTC, whereas Han and Leia kissed even while she was still thinking 'ugh, you're such a scoundrel'

The other option for a kiss would be between Finn and his new LI but because they're not the core couple - I doubt there will be an incredible amount of conflict between them beyond perhaps some light bickering/rivalry - it wouldn't have the same dramatic impact.

I wouldn't be surprised if "the kiss" for Episode VIII is between Finn and KMT's character.  Isn't the "space horse" chase supposed to take place near the end of Act I? So wouldn't that set those two characters up for having just had a pretty intense interaction that concludes just before the 47-ish minute mark?

ETA: And I do think that a Finn/KMT kiss would have dramatic impact because the bulk of the GA probably expects to see Rey and Finn get together.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:


ETA: And I do think that a Finn/KMT kiss would have dramatic impact because the bulk of the GA probably expects to see Rey and Finn get together.

That's a good point, actually. It would be just as much of a blow as the revelation of Rey's parentage to that headcanon, and might make the audience more receptive to Reylo in episode 9.

I find it interesting that bits and pieces of some of the early "leaks" seem to have some legs to them.

There's the infamous reddit leak with the Space Vegas B Plot storyline (which at this point, is either a lucky guess or has some truth behind it).

I also recall reading a leak a while back (I don't recall where--maybe someone else remembers?) where Luke was going to decline to train Rey on Ahch-To, but instead, they were going to go into an extended Godfather II-esque flashback detailing Ben Solo's backstory. Given the hints of the "walking and talking" shots in Ireland, I'm starting to wonder if this will also prove to be the case.

And as far as finding a way to get Kylo and Rey working together towards a common goal...I wouldn't be at all surprised if Leia's assassination attempt/ambush/coma plays a significant part in that.

A possibility tho if the kiss happens between Finn and KMT...and ReyLo stays ambiguous in VIII...is that KMT gets a lot of hate.

Which is pretty sad

can we transfer Rey and Kylo thread from TFA to here? I got used to having it in VIII section.

Giving Finn a non-Rey love interest may open the doors for people to accuse the creators of sidelining him. As if "the girl" (Rey specifically) must be his bonafide-hero prize.

Would it be logical to assume that if Rey and Ren do get stranded together, they have a 3rd wheel droid for company?

HanLeia had 3PO while LukeYoda (lol) had R2

And Anidala had both droids but not as dtracting as in ESB

I had a slight headcanon that ReyLo gets stranded with R2...but he suffered in the MF crash and has to be fixed...and it is Kylo who does the fixing seeing as he knows R2 very well.

Would take the seriousness down a notch and diffuse a bit of tension between them if there was a 3rd party...

AnneNeville wrote:Giving Finn a non-Rey love interest may open the doors for people to accuse the creators of sidelining him. As if "the girl" (Rey specifically) must be his bonafide-hero prize.

Alas, I agree. But I've got a good feeling about the Finn & KMT romance, if there's going to be one (and I'm pretty sure there will). I don't know why exactly but I think that dynamic might turn out to be one of the best things about the future episodes. I just really like what I've seen of KMT. I'm a fan of hers already.

I think I already said it in the old thread, but instead of one central romance I can see there being two counterpoint romances, balancing each other. And the best thing would be that those romances would grow organically out of their respective action plots.

One of the reasons why I thought the FinnRey dynamic wasn't getting anywhere romantically was that it was set up as a cutesy rom com dynamic but it didn't have the spark of a good rom com. An excellent rom com dynamic is a thing of beauty. Boyega has the flair for it - he just needs the right partner for that kind of banter.

(Btw, I wonder why those who complain about sidelining the interracial FinnRey romance don't realise that the Finn & KMT romance would actually be more groundbreaking to a lot more people, worldwide.)

I think that Reylo kiss could happen during Rey s darkness test (or whatever it is called) - the thing with a cave in ESB.

@ISeeAnIsland "And as far as finding a way to get Kylo and Rey working together towards a common goal...I wouldn't be at all surprised if Leia's assassination attempt/ambush/coma plays a significant part in that."

Agreed. I'm almost convinced he warned his mother about the imminent attack in Ep 7. And he was definitely desperate to get Luke's location without resorting to destruction. He almost lost his mother once. Now that his fate has decidedly been altered by Rey taking up his legacy lightsaber there's no way he wouldn't go on a rogue rescue mission if his mother's life is in danger. Perfect opportunity for teamwork and "getting to know you". I see this happening after Rey already learns some mitigating info about our Ben through Force bond or talking to Luke.

@Darth_Awekened Yes, perfect! Imagine her simultaneous horror and fascination.

@Rei of Sunshine If they were trapped aboard the MF lines that would have to be uttered:

Kylo: Would it help if I got out and pushed?

Rey: You like me because I'm a scavenger.

For some reason I see him being like Leia and Rey being the Han of the pair as far as snark goes.

MeadowofAshes wrote:@Darth_Awekened Yes, perfect! Imagine her simultaneous horror and fascination.

Definitely. And that would make perfect sense in terms of her killing instincts (which is a dark side) towards creatures and monsters.

- Force bond connection between Kylo and Rey

- Rey flirting with the Dark side, or going dark at the end of episode 8 (temporarily). It would be the bleakest scene, like the 'Han carbonite freeze', to be resolved next episode