The Disney dimension in the sequel trilogy

Hi fellow Reylos! As the Disney dimension seems to have played a crucial part in the design of TFA, I have decided to create this thread in order to debate specifically about this topic and what the callbacks suggest for the plot of the sequel trilogy in general. Here one may post about any callbacks to Disney movies in TFA (visual, lines, music, etc...) - not only in regard to Kylo and Rey's dynamic - and speculate about the meaning of these callbacks in the context of TFA but also beyond.




So let's begin with this one. Don't you think that our famous Marry me face looks similar to Aladdin's  when he sees Jasmine for the first time?



I doubt they'll insert such scene in regard to Kylo & Rey because they'll be probably be too busy on Ahch-To but if Kylo would have some funny moments in Ep. VIII, I would really love to have him introduce Rey as his crazy sis...


However, I would rather see such scenes with Finn. After all, market places seem to be good places both for big troubles and important meetings in TFA and RO.  So why not KMT in such circumstances rather than in some bar?


If Finn would be a Disney Prince in TFA, I think Aladdin is the closest inspiration to his character (ex-aequo with Phoebus to me):
1) Tries to rescue a girl on a market place ==> but didn't get the opportunity to do this since she was able to free herself
2) Introduces himself to the girl as a Resistance member although he's a Stormtrooper just like Aladdin introduces himself to Jasmine as a Prince although he's a "street rat" ==> But decided to tell the truth before it could cause to many damages
I would imagine Finn succeed to rescue a damsel in distress rather with ruse than with muscles and market place could be a good place for a first meeting with his love interest in regard to TFA. It would be even greater if the damsel would be accused of being a thief, just like he was in TFA  


Anyway, I can really imagine John Boyega and KMT play such funny scenes because they seem both really funny in real life

I already ship finntran with the power of a thousand sun

Maria Antonietta wrote:I already ship finntran with the power of a thousand sun

@Maria Antonietta

You're not the only one

You know what, Not long ago i just watch Maleficent and when the scene of Aurora drawn to the needle playing. Somehow, it remind me about the scene of Rey drawn to Anakin lightsaber.

The Force Awakens is very fairytale-ish, not only in themes, but in atmosphere/set composition. One of the reasons Rey is so likeable, I think, is how often she is associated with fairytale imagery/tropes during the movie. We all know these motifs and scenes by heart, even on some unconscious level, and I really think they play a huge factor in her characterization.

Beauty and the Beast:

- Rey's Theme not only is inspired by the Beauty and the Beast Theme, but uses flutes and celestes, instruments associated with dreams and purity. It is very romantic and princess-like, which I found very odd when I first heard it. There's nothing like it in previous SW soundtracks.

- There's a rose and a bell in Rey's room. A clear reference to the rose within a belljar from Beauty and the Beast.

Sleeping Beauty/Maleficent:

- Rey being attracted to the lightsaber is very similar to Aurora finding the spinning wheel not only in Maleficent, but in the original Sleeping Beauty as well.

- Rey walking in the forest after the flashback and meeting Kylo is a dark/subverted approach to the Sleeping Beauty scene where Aurora meets the Prince. Aurora is singing about "the dream" and the Prince is stalking her through the trees. Rey is also thinking about the "the nightmare" and Kylo is stalking her.

Cinderella:

- Rey is frequently talked down by people who consider her "just a scavenger" until they realize she's much more important. It's highly evocative of Cinderella constantly being humiliated by her stepmother/stepsisters and described as poor & dirty until they realize she's much more than that. We see a nobody becoming somebody. It evokes the same cathartic reaction and that's why people applauded when Rey summoned the lightsaber.

- Maz Kanata plays the "fairy godmother", being mystic and vague, helping Rey through her journey and offering her the object that will allow her triumph. Instead of a shoe, of course, we have the lightsaber.

- Rey running from Maz' cantina is a mirror scene of Cinderella running at the end of the ball.

Snow White:

- Rey running away from the FO when she sees Kylo's ship is very similar to Snow White running to the forest after being spared by the huntsman.


***

One of the reasons people are so attached to the idea of Rey being Luke's daughter (or even Han's daughter) is due to this. She is a textbook princess, therefore she must be the daughter of a "king", someone important to the plot. What most people fail to realize is that these princesses triumphed without the help of their parents. They were wildcards. Most of them were "nobodies" when their journey started and their parents were absent/irrelevant for their victory.

While I don't think LF will use Disney material directly in ST, I think what you find is that there are universal archetypes in mythology, fairy tales and film, .i.e. Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey... also I think you cannot say that art does not... influences other art or artist, I think they do take for instance this



A movie poster of The Lion King



Ezra as the Lion King


This is about the circle of life...

Or even this





Mustafar is an interation of the Arabic Muṣṭafā. The name is an epithet of Muhammad that means, The Chosen One.

Ahch-To: A Disney version of Atlantis - The Lost Empire

Although I noticed any stricking parallel between the two movies, I would like to share some thoughts about the potential Disney dimension of this line:

"You imagine an ocean...I see it!...I see the island!"


We've already speculated quite a lot on the meaning of this line and what it could imply for Kylo & Rey's journey in Episode VIII:

1) Some have pointed out how much Kylo's tone and attitude seems to soften at this moment and how the way he leans to Rey loooks like he's going to kiss her

2) Other have pointed out the importance of the word "ocean" in regard to Kylo itself since Ren means Yang Water, which is associated both to the black color and the ocean


3) Other have speculated that Rey dreaming of an ocean may be some foreshadowing of some fall in the ocean and rescue by Kylo, which makes perfectly sense given the recurrence of underwater/drowning scenes in Disney movies:



However, I ask myself whether the line could foreshadow some future parallel with Atlantis - The Lost Empire, a Disney movie about we haven't discussed yet in regard to TFA:

1) They share visual similarities

Achto-To & Atlantide are both mysterious islands lost in the middle of an ocean...


2) They bring us back to origins

Like Colin Trevorrow said in an interview, the story that will be told  "must feel like something that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" and they intend to tell us what happened (Colin Trevorrow). In any case, there is this idea to bring the general audience back to old times, likely much earlier than the events of the prequels. Both islands connect strongly with origins since Atlantide is considered as the cradle of the civilizations while Achch-To is said to be the location of the first Jedi Temple

3) Their location is (un)intentionally much coveted

The thread of Atlantis - The Lost Empire is to organize a scientific expedition in order to find the lost archipel of Atlantide that disappeared under the ocean thousand years ago. The thread of TFA is obviously not to find the island itself - but who knows after all - but to  find Luke's location who appears to have been hiding there for years.


Now, this is pure speculation but providing that the island itself is crucial for the plot of the entire sequel trilogy, let's explore how Atlantis - The Lost Empire could be a pertinent Disney-like source of inspiration for the plot of Episode VIII.

1) An expedition to the center of Ahch-To ?

We know for sure that Rian Johnson got inspiration from the film  Letter Never Sent, which tells about the expedition of geologists in wild Siberia. Some of us - count me in - have speculated that a large part of the Ahch-To could actually take place underground, especially in regard to this recurrent idea brought on the forum that Rey & Kylo will fall into the ocean.
Now, Letter Never Sent itself doesn't take place underground but I've already speculated that Journey to the Center of Earth might be a source of inspiration as well as the Cave of Wonders in Aladdin. All the expedition turn into a fight for survival by braving the elements with this idea that nature expresses her power over human no matter how they try to control it.  
The expedition to Atlantide isn't much different since the plot takes place underground and the expedition turns into a fight for survival during which the team must brave elements.
Interestingly, J.J. stressed in his audio comments how Rey's vision was about experiencing elements like fire, wind, rain, etc..., a comment that he made precisely when she is Kylo & the KoR (with the Force Tree in the background):



2) Something to keep hidden on Ahch-To?

We know from TFA that Luke has been hidding for years on Ahch-To. Rian Johnson made it clear that the reasons why he spent his exil there will be explored in Episode VIII. The recent spoilers have suggested that Ahch-To is protected by some creatures (birds, seamonster,..), which suggest that there is indeed something to hide there.  In regard to Atlantis, Luke would have the role of the King Kashekim who tries to protect as good the can the cristal...that appears to be hidden in a chamber underground.  If something would be hidden on Ahch-To, it makes sense that it would be hidden underground like, especially if Rian Johnson got inspiration from the Indiana Jones franchise. . The fact that the Force tree appears in the background of Rey's vision suggests that the Tree itself might have some  importance in regard to the location of this hidden relic

4) The thread of Ep. VIII: relationship of humanity with nature?

The recent spoiler by 4Chan has brought very interesting points by @panki, @Darth Dingbat and @Ben Organa in the spoilers thread about the potential importance of the relationship of humanity with nature in the sequel trilogy. In Letter Never Sent, this relationship of man with nature with this idea that nature overpower men no matter how  they try to control is one of the strong idea of the movie. In Atlantide, this dimension is also very important especially in regard to how men try to control and use the power of the natural elements

a. King Kashekim explains Milo how the will to control and use the power of the cristal led to the fall of Atlantis:


b. Rourke - as the big Disney villain - wants to get the cristal for himself, which would lead to the complete destruction of Atlantide, another good exemple about how men's will to use nature for their own (dark) purpose leads to the destruction of a whole ecosystem

c. By the end of the movie, the balance is finally restored and the crew decides to keep the truth about the expedition hidden in order to preserve Atlantis from further expedition that would serve dark purposes


6) A (kyber) cristal hidden there?

a) The importance of RO

With RO, the screenwriters have decided to introduce the kyber cristals to the general audience. I even remember that Lira gave her daughter Jyn a kyber cristal that Jyn wore around her neck during the whole movie later. Interestingly, it just occured to me that - I far as I remember Jyn's kyber cristal looks so similar to the cristal that the Atlants wear around their necks. Kyber cristal ain't only the source of power for lightsaber but they also serve as enerny power for darker purpose with the Death Star.  In , the FO uses another power energy  that comes from the Sun, which is by definition associated to energy, power, life, and so...

b) Parallel between the cristal in Atllantis and the sun in TFA?

In Atlantide, the cristal is a living source of energy that ensure life on Atlantide. The Force is by definition a source of life energy in every human being, Force sensitive or not. Interestingly, the cristal in Atlantide doesn't only look like a cristal: it looks like a sun!


c. Like in Atlantis, the FO searches to control and use the power of nature for dark purposes
- The FO controös the power of the Sun to destroy entire systems. This is interesting in regard to the fact that the misuse of the cristal in Atlantide indeed led to the self-destruction of the city
-  In Atlantis, the cristal isn't only a powerful source of energy that can destroy as much as it protects: it can also maintain people young though healing powers. Now let's make some crossover with the Disney movie Tangled, about which I've written some posts previously. Contrary to Atlantis, there were clearly parallels between TFA and Tangled in regard of the visual but also in regard to the story itself. As a Disney villainGothel wants to keep the power of the magic golden flower - whose power comes from the Sun - for herself because the flower it has the ability to heal people and ensure eternal youth to who uses it. Like the cristal on Atlantis, the Magic Golden Flower has grown  on an isolated island:

- Snoke is using Ben's power the same way as the FO is using the power of the Sun and quite the same wa Gothel uses Rapunzel for the power of the magic golden flower. Han clearly says that when Snoke will get what he wants he'll crush Ben, which Ben knows somehow to be true according to the sript and J.J.'s audio comments. This line can't be there in vain: it reveals that Snoke is indeed after something, that he'll at some point of the trilogy and will probably use Ben to get it.  Put in the context of Atlantis, it could make sense that what Snoke wants to get is the ultimate source of power that enable him to live eternally and rule the galaxy by usin this power to destroy any opposed system,  no matter what it implies for the imbalance of the Force. However, it may be possible that he needs someone to use in order to achieve his purposes


7) Rey and/or Kylo as Princess Kida?

Like Kida, both Kylo & Rey wear a mask during their first appearance. Their costumes not only mirror each other: they also mirror Kida's especially Kylo's since his costumes looks more like a robe/skirt. Not to mention the strange similarities about their stance in the promotional image.


Kida is a very important character in Atlantis - The Lost Empire since she's chosen by the cristal, drawn to it and drained by it.

Providing that Ep VIII (or Ep IX) could maybe include some callbacks to Atlantis - The Lost Empire, who from Rey or Kylo could be the closest to Kida, especially in regard to her role in Atlantis?


a) An explanation for Rey's origins? [/b]

Rey would be the most logical answer since her origins are very mysterious. Until now, this is certainly the biggest question people are looking forward to getting answer. Could some parallels  with Atlantis - the Lost Empire provide us with some explanation about Rey's origins? Could it be that her origins are tightly connected to Ahch-To itself?

a.1) Rey's (original) name

Rey's original name (perhaps her real name) was Kira, which sounds actually pretty close to Kida. What's more, Rey means King in Spanish, which perhaps suggest some royal orogins for Rey like Kida who then became Queen of Atlantis after her father's death.

a.2) According to the novelization, Rey recognizes Ahch-To as the island she has been regularly dreaming of

a.3) "I didn't know there was so much green in the galaxy!"

Although Rey was raised on a desert planet, she obviously feels both moved and well in Takodana environment, which - like Ahch-To - is a planet full of green & blue

a.4) Colin Trevorrow about Rey's origins: "Rey is a character who is important and not just in the context of TFA but in the entire galaxy. The answer must feel like it's something that happened a long ago in a galaxy far far away and we tell you what happened"

According to him, the answer must feel like something that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. In regard to this statement, Rey might be actually much older than we think. Indeed, Kida has the appearance of a young woman but is actually thousand years old. So could it be that Rey dreamed of the island because her origins are related to what's hidden there?

a.5) According to the novelization, Luke doesn't need to ask who she is and why she's there

It may be that Luke recognizes her because she's a Kenobi or the daughter of people he would have met in the past. I have always liked the idea of Rey having dark side origins but if she would be indeed the embodiment of the Light Side - as the late spoier of 4Chan suggests - then he could make sense that Luke recognizes her in this regard. What's more that he recognizes who she is is understandable but that he knows why she's here sounds a little weird.

a.6) According to several contribution on the forum, she seems to parallel some messengers of God
- Iris (Greek Goddess)
- Joan d'Arc
- Moise?


a.7) She is called by the Skywalker lightsaber, which contains the kyber cristal used by Anakin, the Chosen One. Obviously, the lightsaber is a bridge between her and Kylo, grandson (reincarnation?) of the Chosen One

a. Kylo: It is you! - Snoke: "Bring me Kylo Ren! It is time to complete his training! He may have been right about the girl!"

Obviously, Snoke has some idea who Rey might be in regard to what Kylo revealed to him. Interestingly, Kylo shows disappointment when Rey appears to be only a scavenger; he even precises to Snoke that being a scavenger "of that unconsequential Jakku" is "all what [Rey] is". To me, it sounds like Kylo is looking for someone in particular and Snoke himself seems to expect someone else than "only a scavenger from that unconsequential Jakku". Perhaps his comment has only to do with Rey being string in the Force but perhaps it also suggests that he knows wh she might be. So what does it mean for Snoke's purposes? Would Rey be just an ennemy to kill? Would it be an asset to use in order to get what he wants?


So if Rey would really be a Star Wars Kida, could it be that she would be called by this "cristal" the same way she was called by the Skywalker lightsaber twice in TFA? After all, there was this comment about the Force making its decision and choosing his champion of the Dark Side by the end of TFA. Could it be that the Force makes its decision and chooses this time Its champion of the Light Side in the next Episode?


b) Ben/Kylo: the Son of the Sun?

Even if it seems more logical to have Rey called by the Force through some cristal or whatever is on Ahch-To, what if Ben turned to be the one who would be called the same way Kida is in the chamber of cristal?

b.1) Kylo's name

Unless it is confirmed that Rey's real name is Kira, Kylo's name appears closer to Kida than hers (ok, that's not a very good argument )

b.2) Kylo and Kida's common points

Until now, the most of the parallels pointed out on the forum suggest that Kylo was meant to parallel a lot of feminine figures, including several Disney Princesses. To me, his costume and stance looks closer to Kida than Rey's, partly because the design of his costume looks strangely feminine. What's more, Kida is strongly associated with water, which ais lso the case of Kylo given the meaning of Ren as Yamg Water. What's more, Ren has the same meaning as Padme since they both mean lotus, a flower that is strongly associated with water, Padme as a character being also strongly associated to water (blue costumes, Naboo lakes)


Both Kylo & Kida are masked when they first meet Rey & Milo, who look both afraid. Both Kylo & Kida reveal their faces for the first time in front of Rey & Milo, with both of them looking surprisingly young. The way Kylo removes his mask eminds me a lot of the way Kida does:


Kida shares an interesting common point with other characters that Kylo seems to parallel:






b.3) Ben and the parallel with the Sun

In TFA, symbolism suggest that Ben/Kylo is also strongly associated to the Sun (Rebirth of the Sun, Eye of Ra/Re, Phoenix, etc...), even more when it comes to his visual parallels with the long lost Princess Rapunzel.

Kylo is obviously the one who gets the Eye of Ra just before Rey comes closer to him, that he reacts by steping back and finally gives hinself in the pull to the light embodied by tghe movement of Rey's. In this regard, Kylo's Eye of Ra reminds me a little of Kida's eyes as the cristal calls to her. Even the close-up shots look similar to me, especially the way the light goes stronger in their eyes and their eyes expressions soften when they accept the call:


In TFA, Kylo is the one who is illuminated by a ray of light coming from the Sun the same way as Kida is illuminated by a ray of light coming from the cristal.


The meaning behind Ben's first name indicates how central his lineage is. He is not only the last heir of the Skywalker family, he is obviously the only grandson of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader who was recognized by both Qui-Gon Jinn and later the Ones from Mortis as the Chosen One:


The sun being associated to the fire element, this would imply that Kylo is associated to both fire and water  This would also makes sense in regard to his lineage since he seems to be some mix between Anakin (associated to fire) and Padme (associated to water):

https://osoarchives.wikispaces.com/Teachings,+Fire+and+Water+Anakin+and+Padme


b.4) Ben/Kylo as the focal point between the light and the darkness?

Snoke has been maipulating and using Ben from an early age. He has been targeting this kid specifically. It can be that it was only because he knew Ben to be Force-sensitive and that he was Vader's grandchild. However, there is something very specific in which Snoke was interested in:

Leia to Han: "He knew our son was born with equal potential for good and evil

Snoke to Ben: "It is far more than that. It is what you're made of. The dark side - and the light. The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor material. He must have something pure, someting unbreakable. I have - you".

Obviously, Snoke doesn't mind at all that Kylo would keep light within him - on the very contrary. He considers Kylo to be the best material to work on because he is the embodiment of the dark side and the light. So achieving the perfect balance between  the dark side and the light side in this indovidual is obviously what he's working on?  But to what purpose ? You don't work for years to such purpose just for fun

Even visually, Kylo appears as the embodiment of both the dark side and the light since he feels the call to both of them:





b.5) Snoke his using his power, but what for  

Kylo doesn't seem to have a role as important as Vader in the military aspect of the FO. What's more, aside from Luke, all the Jedi have disappeared. So what is Kylo's exact role in this system? To what purpose did Snoke want him by his side from an early age? Like Han says, he's using Ben for his power, not in plural but in singular. It can mean anything specific but what if Ben had indeed some specific power in which Snoke is interested in? Ben appears to be incredibly Force sensitive, showing ability that no Force User ever did before him. I have already speculated in some previous post that given the parallels with Rapunzel, E.T. and Phoenixes, Ben might have/get the ability to heal. Interestingly, both Rapunzel & Kida use their healing power on Flynn & Milo when they are injured. During their first meeting , they also both hide  their faces (Rapunzel in the shadows; Kida behind a mask) before revealing themselves. So what if it is revealed in the next Episode that Kylo would have healing power, i.e. because like Rapunzel, like Kida, like E.T., like Fawkes the Phoenix, he would have to use it on an injured Rey As Snoke is obviously very old and damaged, such power could be a real asset until he gets the ultimate source of power to become all powerful   Like I have speculated before, Snoke working on Kylo as a pure material in order to get the pefect embodiment of the light and the darkness suggests to me that he's a little like Jafar who needs to find a rough diamant to retrieve the magic lamp in the Cave of Wonders.

b.6) Larry King: "Will Kylo Ren live in Episode 8?" - Adam Driver: "It depends on what's your idea of living!"

Adam's answer to that question has raised different speculation. Will Kylo Ren die to let Ben Solo live? Will he get emotionally injured? Will he get gravely hysically  injured? Will he experience near-death close  from carbonite freeze ? Wille he end in some particular state close to this?


b.7) Rey in the role of the Disney Prince?

The archetype of the Disney fairytale   is about the misuse/manipulation of the Disney Princess (with the exception of Prince Adam & Quasimodo) by a Disney villain with this idea that the Princess can only free herself from misuse/curse with the help of a Prince. The different contributions on the forum about the analysis of TFA suggest that Rey was given the traditional role of the Disney rather than the traditional role of the Disney princess.  Maz's line to Rey is  very interesting in this regard, especially in the novelization (probably removed in the movoe because too obvious): "There is someone who still could [come back]... with your help" . In regard to Atlantis, Kida is the Princess who must be saved because after she was transformed into the cristal, Milo went after Rourke to free her and bring her home.


These two shots look strangely similar to me: Kylo is surrounded by the KOR just like Kida is surrounded by the pieces of the cage in which she imprisoned; Rey stands in front of him and steps back like Milo stands in front of Kida and steps back; Rey is obviously meants to help Kylo to free himself from his cage just like Milo helped Kida to free herself from her cage:


Rey saw in her visions a ship leaving her on Jakku just like Kida saw her mother leaving her for always. However, even Rey knows her family is never coming back, she learned that someone shall one day come back for her. Foreshadowing





Although I would love the idea that the general audience would get some big twist with Kylo experiencing some "chosen one" moment - because I find that his power and importance as a character seems to be underrated by a lot of people in general - I believe that Rey experiencing this kind of moment at some point of the trilogy would nevertheless make more sense given the expectations toward the first female lead in SW and the acknowledged importance of her character in the universe.

@reylo1992 girl, you're on fire

When you're trying too hard  to not promote the villain like a Prince











Return? But what for?  


Source: http://unapologeticreylotrash.tumblr.com/post/156437658955/dinogaby-so-i-had-to-buy-this-little-book

reylo1992 wrote:When you're trying too hard  to not promote the villain like a Prince











Return? But what for?  


Source: http://unapologeticreylotrash.tumblr.com/post/156437658955/dinogaby-so-i-had-to-buy-this-little-book

@reylo1992

Its interesting how they're making him look so attractive and completely underplaying the scar.....I hear all these youtube videos about how he is going to look even more nasty in episode 8 and how more parts of him will get carved up with each episode  

While I'm sure he'll have a scar, I think its going to be a line like the one Anakin had in ROTS (but a longer line across where Rey cut him).....or at the most he will have a scar like the one Saw Gerrera sported in rebels....and Saw spent years on the run,  living in catacombs and pesticide-filled geonosian hives without medical facilities, not traveling in a space limo with every facility available.

I grew up with the classic Disney movies and "Beauty & the Beast" has always been my favourite, ever since I was a child  
In relation to TFA, two of my favourite things are:
1) as pointed out before, the fact that the notes of Rey's theme are identical to the notes of the prologue in B&tB, with the exception of one note- John Williams is a musical genius and I find it hard to believe that it was just a coincidence on his part (Bastila theme too),
2) At the beginning of B&tb there's this part with Belle walking through her village and singing and I realized only when I was older that what she sings about her favorite book foreshadows her future relationship with the Beast, which also applies to every story with this kind of dynamic:
Belle's favorite book is about "far off places, daring sword fights, magic spells, a prince in disguise (cough cough)", and then she shows a page of the book to a sheep (lol) and says:

"It's my favorite part because....you'll see
Here's where she meets Prince Charming
But she won't discover that it's him til chapter 3"

(and ofc there's a drawing of the prince and the heroine meeting for the first time in a forest)
just like her relationship with the Beast/prince Adam ended up being.

Rey already met her prince(ss) but doesn't know this yet and she thinks he's a monster, so just as Rey we will slowly but surely discover other sides of Kylo, who the person behind the mask (figuratively speaking, but in Kylo's case literally too lol) really is  and what were the reasons that made him become what Rey defined as a monstah.

Alright, Kylo is ridiculously cute in that book. Come on now. They don't even have him making a mean face.

ZioRen wrote:Alright, Kylo is ridiculously cute in that book. Come on now. They don't even have him making a mean face.

@ZioRen

Whaddya mean?? This is what I always look like when I plot revenge. Curious and hopeful, with a slight lopsided smile on my face.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

ZioRen wrote:Alright, Kylo is ridiculously cute in that book. Come on now. They don't even have him making a mean face.

@ZioRen

Whaddya mean?? This is what I always look like when I plot revenge. Curious and hopeful, with a slight lopsided smile on my face.

@Darth Dingbat

I was asking myself exactly the same thing as you. Who is he supposed to look like that? Finn?

panki wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:When you're trying too hard  to not promote the villain like a Prince











Return? But what for?  


Source: http://unapologeticreylotrash.tumblr.com/post/156437658955/dinogaby-so-i-had-to-buy-this-little-book

@reylo1992

Its interesting how they're making him look so attractive and completely underplaying the scar.....I hear all these youtube videos about how he is going to look even more nasty in episode 8 and how more parts of him will get carved up with each episode  

While I'm sure he'll have a scar, I think its going to be a line like the one Anakin had in ROTS (but a longer line across where Rey cut him).....or at the most he will have a scar like the one Saw Gerrera sported in rebels....and Saw spent years on the run,  living in catacombs and pesticide-filled geonosian hives without medical facilities, not traveling in a space limo with every facility available.

@panki

To be honest, I though that his scar would look dreadful. But now that you show me this pic, I feel quite hopeful, but noneless I expect some jump reaction from Rey when she sees his face again

spacebaby45678 wrote:While I don't think LF will use Disney material directly in ST, I think what you find is that there are universal archetypes in mythology, fairy tales and film, .i.e. Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey... also I think you cannot say that art does not... influences other art or artist, I think they do take for instance this



A movie poster of The Lion King



Ezra as the Lion King


This is about the circle of life...

Or even this





Mustafar is an interation of the Arabic Muṣṭafā. The name is an epithet of Muhammad that means, The Chosen One.

@spacebaby45678

In the same vein:

"To be or not to be: that is the question!"



http://hamletlionking.weebly.com/

Looks like someone might have a visit in the future, hmm?  

Mufasa ==> Anakin
Simba  ==>  Kylo
Rafiki   ==>  Maz

The dialog itself literally summarizes Kylo/Ben's dilemma:

"You see? He lives in you!"

"You have forgotten who you are and so forgotten me!"

"Look inside yourself! You are more than what you have become"

"How can I go back! I'm not who  I used to be!"

"Remember who you are!"

"I know what I have to do but going back means that I have to face my past!"

"Where are you going? I am going back!"

Later in the movie, Simba's "redemption" path is symbolized by his travel across the desert:

Ben =Son/Sun


I don't know whether it's relevant or not but I find the leaked pic from the salt desert in Bolivia (Salar de Uyuni) intriguing



It seems unlikely that this would have something to do with Kylo since we tend to assume that he shall spend the most of the movie on Ahch-To but still I can't help but wonder why the screenwriters would have chosen a salt desert as location. Like I wrote in previous posts, my knowledge about religion are quite limited but it seems that salt plays an important role in religion. Given the prominent dimension of religion in Star Wars movies, I ask myself if the choice of this salt desert isn't mean to have some religious meaning. If I well understand, salt is spiritually associated to sacrifice, salvation, purity, perfection, wisdom, hospitality, durability, and fidelity:

"Salt was required in every sacrifice burned on the altar. Besides its preserving factor, it also has a purifying affect on what it comes in contact with"
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1795/Salt-as-Metaphor.htm

In Confucianism, Ren literally means benevolence:

"Confucius regards "Ren" as the ultimate moral principle, standard and level. One shall fulfill his obligations in the society, the spirit of which is to love others, or "Ren";  one must be kindhearted towards others so as to fulfill his social responsibilities.
http://www.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/html/en/43History984.html

Fulfill his duties/social responsabilities is exactly what Simba by going back to Pride Rock despite his fear to face his past. Could it some foreshadowing for Kylo going back to fulfill his destiny/role toward the galaxy as the last Skywalker heir

Since we're discussing The Lion King, this came straight to my mind..

How very aesthetically reminiscent. Also, Kovu gets a scar on his eye (although from his mother), there are definitely some Disney elements with Reylo.

thescavenger wrote:Since we're discussing The Lion King, this came straight to my mind..

How very aesthetically reminiscent. Also, Kovu gets a scar on his eye (although from his mother), there are definitely some Disney elements with Reylo.

@thescavenger

Agree with you about that! Plus Kovu & Kiara sounds close to Kylo & Kira (Rey's original name). I think that the Reylo dynamic would be closer to Kovu & Kiara's than Simba & Nala's. Kylo's struggle to find his place in the  "circle of life" is some mix between Simba & Kovu's own struggles.

Another thing that just occured to my mind. When Simba & Nala argue, she begs him to come back to Pride Rock and tries to convince him by saying: "You're our only hope!"

And here  are the very last lines of the TFA novelization:

"Remembering, Rey reached into her pack and removed his lightsaber. Taking several steps forward, she held it out to him. An offer. A plea. The galaxy’s only hope"

What if the expression had no single but several meanings

1) Like some of the members of the forum have pointed it out, the expression "only hope" could be one more clue to Rey's lineage since Obi-Wan was Leia's "only hope" and that he gave the Skywalker's lightsaber back in ANH, which is exactly the role that Rey fulfill.

2) The expression could of course refer to Luke as well since he embodied the galaxy's "new hope" in Episode IV, that he was called "only hope" by Obi-Wan twice and that the thread of TFA was to find him

3) The way the sentence is written is pretty interesting: it doesn't focus neither on Rey nor on Luke but on the lightsaber itself, what it represents.
- Rey represents the messager ==> she removes it and hold it
- Luke represents the recipient ==> he stands in front of her              
- The lightsaber represent the message ==> The way the sentence is written undertones that the lightsaber itself helds/represents the "offer", the "plea", the "galaxy's only hope"

It is likely that the lightsaber once belonged to Ben since he claimed it to be his property and it represents in any case the legacy of the last Skywalker heir. We also know that the high stake of the sequel trilogy is to have the last Skywalker heir back to his family and the Light side the same way the stake of The Lion King was to have Simba back to his family and his kingdom. So the fate of the galaxy can't be balanced until the last Skywalker has returned. Could it be that the "galaxy's only hope" refers to him too

There are a lot of similarities between Kylo and Kovu. 

1) They're both indoctrinated at a young age by a parent/parental figure. Kylo is seduced to the Dark Side by Snoke to destroy the Jedi. Kovu is brainwashed by Zira to kill Simba in order to avenge Scar and become King.

          "By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced."
                    "It was Snoke. He seduced our son to the Dark Side."

          "Good night, my little prince. Tomorrow, your training intensifies."




2) They meet a girl who changes everything. Kovu reunites with Kiara, who he had met when he was younger and becomes distracted from his plan to attack Simba. He instead teaches Kiara how to hunt and they eventually fall in love. It's through their love for each other that they end up reuniting the two divided prides. Kylo hears of a girl throughout the first act of TFA and shows an unusual interest in said girl. He kidnaps Rey, instead of going after the droid, and it ends up costing him the information he needed to find Luke. A strange connection is forged between the two and the consequences of that have yet to be seen.

          "Where am I?" "Where am I?"
                    "You're my guest" "You're safe"



3) Haunted by the Past. Kovu is chosen by Scar as his heir, the rightful King. The legacy of Scar is Kovu's burden to carry as he plans to kill Simba to reclaim the Pridelands. When his feelings for Kiara start changing, he no longer wants to be part of Zira's plan but he can't escape Scar's ghost. Kylo is obsessed with his grandfather's legacy, searching the galaxy for relics of the past. He treats Vader like a deiti, a figure he prays to keep the light at bay.

          "Kovu is the chosen one. We must fulfill Scar's dying wish, and train Kovu to become King."
                    "I will avenge Scar...take his place in the Pridelands."
          "My father said there was a darkness in Scar that he couldn't escape." 
                    "Maybe's there's a darkness in me, too"

          "Forgive me. I feel it again. The pull to the light. [...] Show me again, the power of the darkness,
                     and I will not let anything stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."
          "You...you're afraid...that you'll  never be as strong as Darth Vader."
                    "There was nothing we could've done. There was too much Vader in him."







4) We are One. This one is more meta/speculation about what I'd like to see happen. Kovu and Kiara, in the end, bring the two divided prides together after realizing they're both the same. Hence it balances the circle of life. The force, in order to be balanced, needs to have the two sides converging. Rey and Kylo are very much the personification of yin and yang, that's not a coincidence. Yin and Yang are inseparable and are meant to come together to create harmony in the universe. To me, that's how I see their dynamic playing out. Two equals, not one better than the other, working together to create harmony and peace in the galaxy.


 

Just saw this on tumblr. I loled.

Hi! The release of the official  trailer led me to make some connection with the ST and a Disney movie we haven't discussed yet. I doubt that Pocahontas is a key source of inspiration for the ST. Still, there are some interesting connections to make that bring us back to TFA.

One of the thing that strikes me in the official trailer in regard to Rey is how much the idea of finding her place in that universe is so important for her, which brought me back to the lines that I consider to be the most important lines of TFA:

Except the whole part about the Pocahontas' mother, I find the dialogue between Maz and Rey very reminiscent of Grandmother Willow and Pocahontas:


1) A young woman is receiving guidance from an age-old and wise female character

2) Pocahontas has a regular dream, which leads Grandmother Willow to suggest that the dream is showing her the right path

"Stay here. I’ll come back for you, sweetheart. I promise.

‘Yes, I’m here, I’m here!’ Rey shouted. Her eyes popped open and she looked about the walker. BB-8’s dome lights glowed on low illumination. The doors were shut. Nothing in her home was out of place.

As always, there was no figure to the voice.

She’d been haunted by a dream. Or a nightmare. At this point in her life, she couldn’t decide what it was. All she knew was the voice came and went as it pleased, sometimes staying absent for months. But when she least expected it, the voice would return, never leaving her alone permanently. Never."
TFA novelization


3) Pocahontas asks herself what is her path

Pocahontas: "But Grandmother Willow! hat is my path! How am I gonna to find it?["/i]

Rey : [i]"I need someone to show me my place in all of this"

4) Grandmother Willow councils Pocahontas to "listen" in order to find her path:

Grandmother Willow:  "I told her to listen! All around you are spirits child! They live in the earth, water,. If you listen, they will guide you!"

Maz: " Dear child [...] I am no Jedi but I know the Force! It moves through and surrounds every living things!  Close your eyes, feel it! The light, it's always been there, it will guide you!"

5) Pocahontas hears the wind but doesn't understand

Pocahontas: "I am hearing the wind!

Grandmother Willow: "What is he saying?"

Pocahontas: "I don't understand"

6) Her belonging is coming:

Pocahontas : "He says something is coming. Strange clouds?"


   

7) A specific object indicates the right path:

John's compass


Kylo's lightsaber


But Rey didn't understand what the Force was saying to her this time...

Some callbacks to expect in TLJ provising that Kylo's aggressive stance takes place on Ahch-To (based on the hypothesis that the dark form behind it is the Force tree)







Backgrounds don't fit but anyway, you get my point