Re: Leia, Princess of Alderaan Novel Discussion

by snufkin Sat 16 Sep 2017, 10:39 am

Got it at the library and eh, did not think it was that great (sorry!). Biggest problem was Leia's personality, too sweet and earnest. Where's the Dorothy Snarker we all know and love? Be a smart a** is hard wired into you, you don't turn that way overnight. I liked Bail and the parts about her relationship with her parents. Can see that Bloodline has her try and do the same things with her son that her parents did to protect her and it backfired spectacularly with the line about a family being stronger with sharing the struggle together. Otherwise, didn't care about her tragic, boring boyfriend and thought the Laura Dern character was annoying. And it has the same quality which annoyed me to no end about Rogue One, confusing spot the Easter Egg for world building. I can appreciate Tarkin (which terrible flat bad guy character here) having a personal antagonism with her parents, which is why they end up getting destroyed by the DS. But I wasn't excited by Krennic turning up, more like "how many people are in this galaxy?" It feels a little too much like pleasing the completist tendencies a lot of fans have. Or because of the Jane Austen reference that gets dropped in there, like one of her novels where somehow every one knows everyone else. I really and sincerely hope that tendency is kept to a minimum in TLJ. So overall, fast read but not as good as Bloodline

by Darth Dingbat Sat 16 Sep 2017, 11:12 am

@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

It probably takes a more acerbic writer to capture Leia's personality.

What's the Jane Austen reference, btw?

by snufkin Sat 16 Sep 2017, 11:25 am

Darth Dingbat wrote:@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

It probably takes a more acerbic writer to capture Leia's personality.

What's the Jane Austen reference, btw?

@Darth Dingbat

I liked her in Bloodline more but Leia is a b*tch and I mean that in the nicest way possible. This version is too wide eyed and earnest for me to take seriously. The Austen line is her mother telling her that she likes her boyfriend that's like Jane and Lizzy (now there's a smart a**) talking about Bingley. Which was cute, but Leia is a child of Dorothy Parker and Lillian Hellmann, so wrong tone.

Also the thing about this novel and the Han Solo movie is that while they have to come up with content for all the different corporate product lines (and you know there will be at least a YA tie in novel for him too), I tend to prefer keeping some parts of the story ambiguous. It's better to have the audience fill in the blanks with their imagination. Actual old school 1970s Han's back story is too gritty and adult for Disney, he's a drug smuggler for Christ's sake. The other thing after reading this, we're not getting an I am your father arc for Rey, but they're gonna mine the Hell out of her backstory and family for books.

by Night Huntress Sat 16 Sep 2017, 11:31 am

Darth Dingbat wrote:@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

@Darth Dingbat

Really? Interesting - I haven't received my copy either, but my impression was that CG did a great job capturing Leia's personality in Bloodline.
I remember her being quick-witted and hot tempered against Casterfo. I mean she isn't in her early twenties anymore and you did see things differently with more life experience. I'm a hot tempered person myself... but what drove me mad 10 years ago, i just shrug away now with 35.

One of my main complains about the old EU was, that the characters were written like they never age or mature- so I liked how Leia is different in Bloodline- still herself but further developed.

by Darth Dingbat Sat 16 Sep 2017, 11:40 am

Night Huntress wrote:
Darth Dingbat wrote:@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

@Darth Dingbat

Really? Interesting - I haven't received my copy either, but my impression was that CG did a great job capturing Leia's personality in Bloodline.
I remember her being quick-witted and hot tempered against Casterfo. I mean she isn't in her early twenties anymore and you did see things differently with more life experience. I'm a hot tempered person myself... but what drove me mad 10 years ago, i just shrug away now with 35.

One of my main complains about the old EU was, that the characters were written like they never age or mature- so I liked how Leia is different in Bloodline- still herself but further developed.

@Night Huntress

I did like Bloodline very much, and I liked Leia in it. And yeah, the Leia-Casterfo dynamic was my favourite part. Somehow I just felt like the Leia I knew from the OT would have been a lot more acerbic and temperamental, even if she would have learned to hold her tongue more over the years. But it would be hard for anyone to capture Carrie on paper, so I'm not faulting Gray for that.

But, yes, very good point about people changing as they mature.

by snufkin Sat 16 Sep 2017, 12:17 pm

@Night Huntress @Darth Dingbat - it's definitely in part not being able to get Carrie's voice on paper because that was her skill as a writer and she very much owns up to the style of writer (like Dorothy Parker and the screwball era) which shaped her voice/humor. I wasn't expecting something along the lines of Postcards from the Edge in Space, but it's also hard to turn off that voice if you've read the book/seen the movie. I do think in terms of ST era Leia, there's likely more of Debbie Reynolds in that characterization because she had a Never Say Die attitude thanks to the very public setbacks and disappointments she'd gone through.

One thing which I did wonder about after having read Bloodline are the parent-child recordings and will those be shown in TLJ. Because we know at some point Bail records the message to her about her actual paternity (and while it's one of too Easter Egg for my taste, I did appreciate Gray showing the anxiety/danger her adoptive parents had over her origins being figured out) and it's then the centerpiece of the Vader reveal which precipitates her exile from the NR and likely whatever happened to Luke's order/Ben's fall. And there's the message she records to Ben. So I am curious if both or either recording will be shown in TLJ. Especially because the Laura Dern character in one of the rumors supposedly turns on her for being Vader offspring.

by IoJovi Sat 16 Sep 2017, 12:40 pm

@snufkin I'm just over a third into the book. I admit I had a hard time getting into it at first. I had just finished Phasma, and the two stories are so vastly different I had a hard time changing gears. Phasma is very dark, while this one is almost fluffy, if that's a good word to use. As far as Leia's characterization, I'd chalk it up to her being young. I get the feeling something tragic happens to Keir, which I'm sure hardens her around the edges later on. Claudia Gray still highlights her temper and her boldness at going into dire situations without thinking, which is great because we know where her son gets it too...

by SoloSideCousin Sat 16 Sep 2017, 1:10 pm

Night Huntress wrote:
Darth Dingbat wrote:@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

@Darth Dingbat

Really? Interesting - I haven't received my copy either, but my impression was that CG did a great job capturing Leia's personality in Bloodline.
I remember her being quick-witted and hot tempered against Casterfo. I mean she isn't in her early twenties anymore and you did see things differently with more life experience. I'm a hot tempered person myself... but what drove me mad 10 years ago, i just shrug away now with 35.

One of my main complains about the old EU was, that the characters were written like they never age or mature- so I liked how Leia is different in Bloodline- still herself but further developed.

@Night Huntress

Yeah, I really liked both characterizations. It made a lot of sense to me that she wouldn't be so acerbic until bad stuff started happening to her. Unlike Carrie Fisher, it seems like Leia had the perfect upbringing for the first 16 years of her life. Being acerbic and funny is often a defense mechanism or a cover for pain. Leia wouldn't have the need for that until the tragedies started. I also really liked how CG showed how sensitive Leia could be under it all. It helps show that super sensitive Ben didn't come out of nowhere. Even then I thought CG did a great job showing how zealous she could be, along with that Skywalker hubris and impulsivity and absolute need to prove herself. I also liked how she showed that Leia was already utterly driven by duty and how she put the galaxy's needs before any personal or family needs. Kier and Holdo try to teach her to find a balance and she never learns that lesson, and I think that lack of balance will prove devastating with her relationship with Ben, as she probably unthinkingly put the galaxy's needs before his and her own all the time. I also think that plays into the fact that she repeats the same mistake with Ben that her parents tried with her.

by jakkusun Sat 16 Sep 2017, 2:23 pm

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Night Huntress wrote:
Darth Dingbat wrote:@snufkin, I haven't received my copy yet, but I felt the same way about Bloodline Leia - much too nice and much too soft.

(Actually, I felt the same about TFA Leia, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish...)

@Darth Dingbat

Really? Interesting - I haven't received my copy either, but my impression was that CG did a great job capturing Leia's personality in Bloodline.
I remember her being quick-witted and hot tempered against Casterfo. I mean she isn't in her early twenties anymore and you did see things differently with more life experience. I'm a hot tempered person myself... but what drove me mad 10 years ago, i just shrug away now with 35.

One of my main complains about the old EU was, that the characters were written like they never age or mature- so I liked how Leia is different in Bloodline- still herself but further developed.
@Night Huntress

Yeah, I really liked both characterizations. It made a lot of sense to me that she wouldn't be so acerbic until bad stuff started happening to her. Unlike Carrie Fisher, it seems like Leia had the perfect upbringing for the first 16 years of her life. Being acerbic and funny is often a defense mechanism or a cover for pain. Leia wouldn't have the need for that until the tragedies started. I also really liked how CG showed how sensitive Leia could be under it all. It helps show that super sensitive Ben didn't come out of nowhere. Even then I thought CG did a great job showing how zealous she could be, along with that Skywalker hubris and impulsivity and absolute need to prove herself. I also liked how she showed that Leia was already utterly driven by duty and how she put the galaxy's needs before any personal or family needs. Kier and Holdo try to teach her to find a balance and she never learns that lesson, and I think that lack of balance will prove devastating with her relationship with Ben, as she probably unthinkingly put the galaxy's needs before his and her own all the time. I also think that plays into the fact that she repeats the same mistake with Ben that her parents tried with her.

@SoloSideCousin

I thought there were lots of instances of Leia noticing her temper beginning to get out of control, but she always stopped herself before she acted on it. She sure seemed to not have very much patience for other people in her head/thoughts though, even if she remained poised and confrontational on the outside. So I agree that it made sense to me that she grew more outspoken/confrontational/acerbic as she grew older and experienced more. That's how I evolved myself, anyway xD I was so much more polite as a teenager.

I thought the part where Bail tried to tell her that drinking caf as a teen would stunt her growth and she responded that she was already short, so might as well enjoy the caf was rather Carrie Fisher thing to say. idk it made me think of her. :)

Though I suppose I'm just biased cause I like easter eggs and comforting stories. :P Though I don't really personally like romance stuff (but it makes sense that Leia had lovers before Han) and I thought the ending was actually kinda harsh...

Spoiler:

And I didn't think about how her sense of duty and her sensitivity could connect to her future and Ben. Good points!

by snufkin Sat 16 Sep 2017, 2:37 pm

It's a personal preference on my part. Because drop too many Easter Eggs into a story and it doesn't make everything feel more tied together. I just get distracted by "spot the reference." The interesting thing is that you have so many vocal fans of Rogue One saying it's better than The Force Awakens because of the Easter Eggs making it more part of that fictional universe. But to my mind, there's little or no difference between an Easter Egg or a callback. Both films have an equal amount and Rogue One's story is a 2-hour callback to the original movie. Just that some parts of the fan hivemind have decided that it's "more Star Wars." Or depending on what your personal favorites happen to be, the movie which has more references to that favorite thing (TV shows, books, games, comics, etc) is what you feel to be superior.

One thing about this type of detail in a movie is that the love for Rogue One helped make it easier for me to understand why a lot of fans have "X are Rey's family" theories. But these details are about making everything connected and tied together. So Rey must be Jabba's daughter because those are the "rules" of that fictional universe. Which I don't think is the case with the ST, unless they really are going to treat the world and characters like they're in a Dickens novel. Or given the Jane Austen reference in Leia, Princess of Alderaan, it'll be like one of her novels where everybody knows everybody else and the story is a sequence of fortunate coincidences.

I do think that the overarching themes of the book will play into TLJ about family history, keeping dangerous secrets with the intention of protecting your child can still blow up in your face, that a family which shares its burdens/hardships/secrets is a stronger group in the end, and when somebody young/idealistic takes the ideas of self-sacrifice and service to a point that's not healthy. It's also feeling more likely that any flashbacks will show Leia and Ben in terms of her trying to give him the same 'old school' type of upbringing she had from Bail. Which probably wasn't the right tack because he's got "too much of his father in him." And while it's likely we'll get some an explanation of Rey's backstory and family in the ST, this book makes me think even more so that the meat of the story about what happened and her origins will be saved for publishing.

by snufkin Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:09 am

Oh dang, one more detail that likely plays into TLJ. The Three Challenges Leia has to face in the book like wayfinding? That's why she sent Ben away to Luke. To have him go through something similar, except that it turned out to be a far different (and more deadly/tragic) outcome. So shall we take bets that she sent him off when he was 16 (old spoiler of Rey having a vision of a young man), so 6-7 years with Luke before he turned?

by ISeeAnIsland Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:54 am

snufkin wrote:Oh dang, one more detail that likely plays into TLJ. The Three Challenges Leia has to face in the book like wayfinding? That's why she sent Ben away to Luke. To have him go through something similar, except that it turned out to be a far different (and more deadly/tragic) outcome. So shall we take bets that she sent him off when he was 16 (old spoiler of Rey having a vision of a young man), so 6-7 years with Luke before he turned?

@snufkin

That would make sense and also fit in with the rumors that Ben fell in with a bad crowd/got involved with gangs before Leia sent him away.

by snufkin Sun 17 Sep 2017, 12:19 pm

@ISeeAnIsland - agreed. And if he was hanging out with "the wrong crowd," that likely means he was far more like Han in temperament and part of the family falling apart was Han gave in to Leia wanting to send him off. It's also made sense to me even before any spoilers/rumors came out that Rey finally having to admit to herself what happened with her parents would likely put her through an emotional crisis in the next movie and open up the door to sympathy between the two of them. It's also a minor wrinkle in difference between the two of them and Finn, he probably was stolen/kidnapped from his family versus how both of them were sent away.

by Night Huntress Mon 18 Sep 2017, 2:09 pm

just received a message from Amazon.de today. The delivery will be delayed- expected 24. October to 10th November... Censored

I try to find it somewhere elsewhere and cancel my order. Gnagnan

Found it in the UK (bookdepository.com)- will be delivered (for free) in 2 business days Cool

by IoJovi Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:04 pm

Just finished this book about a half hour ago. It was very good, but I have to say, I think I enjoyed the Phasma book a bit more. It was definitely grittier. I'll concur with @Snufkin, I missed the snarky, hot headed Leia. I realize she's only 16 in this book, but she's still a bit softer than I imagine her. That being said, I did enjoy it immensely.

Spoiler:

by SoloSideCousin Fri 22 Sep 2017, 7:51 pm

IoJovi wrote:Just finished this book about a half hour ago. It was very good, but I have to say, I think I enjoyed the Phasma book a bit more. It was definitely grittier. I'll concur with @Snufkin, I missed the snarky, hot headed Leia. I realize she's only 16 in this book, but she's still a bit softer than I imagine her. That being said, I did enjoy it immensely.

Spoiler:

@IoJovi

IoJovi wrote:Just finished this book about a half hour ago. It was very good, but I have to say, I think I enjoyed the Phasma book a bit more. It was definitely grittier. I'll concur with @Snufkin, I missed the snarky, hot headed Leia. I realize she's only 16 in this book, but she's still a bit softer than I imagine her. That being said, I did enjoy it immensely.

Spoiler:

@IoJovi

This is so funny because you and I are almost always on the same page, but I came out the opposite of you on a couple of things. Very Happy

Spoiler:

by IoJovi Fri 22 Sep 2017, 8:48 pm

@SoloSideCousin

Spoiler:

by snufkin Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:12 pm

@IoJovi - I always figured that she had a boyfriend or space prom date prior to whatever happens in the first movie. I mean, look at all that make up and hair!
It is funny given how puritanical Disney/LF can be about these things (sure she got pregnant with Ben only after she got married), it's likely as close as any of they can get to showing that trilogy leads engage in pre-marital sex.

by Night Huntress Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:21 am

My copy finally arrived today and I can't put it down! I devoured ¼ already and it's gonna be a long night study

by BB-Rey Mon 22 Jan 2018, 6:03 pm

I really want to read this book!! It looks so good. Currently I'm reading the Ahsoka novel which is great so far.

by Cowgirlsamurai Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:10 pm

This made me think of Rey’s attraction to Ben in TLJ:

“Don’t let your head be turned by the most dangerous substance known to exist.”
“Which is?”
“A pair of pretty dark eyes.”

by MrsWindu Wed 07 Mar 2018, 7:53 am

I've not read this novel but I'd me intrigued to see this version...

'Star Wars' Announces New Manga Starring Princess Leia...In a few months, Lucasfilm will usher in May the Fourth with a round of celebratory projects, and one of them will be a manga focused on Princess Leia.

Thanks to LINE, the digital manga will make its debut on May 4 online.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/03/07/star-wars-manga-princess-leia-anime/

Leia, Princess of Alderaan Novel Discussion - Page 2 Leia-m10

by Sponsored content