Official TROS Spoilers discussion

@motherofpearl1 There's extra BTS stuff on the blu-ray, though I question how revealing they'll really be, even the big making-of doc. There's even a special feature on D-0, the droid JJ voiced, which, uh?

Lots of people wanted Rey to have a yellow double bladed saber like Bastila, don't know why they didn't do two blades, like a yellow version of the dark!Rey saber. But we can't go too wild, now can we?

These bonus features apart from "Warwick & Son" for TROS sound so lackluster compared to the ones for TLJ. I also highly doubt "The Skywalker Legacy" will even touch base on the Prequels. Plus I am incredibly annoyed that "The Maestro's Finale" is only available digitally. *Rolls eyes*

I feel so spoiled by Rian Johnson. I loved the extras in TLJ especially the documentary.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I doubt if there's such a thing as 'innocent coincidence' where DLF are concerned these days.
They probably thought the yellow lightsabre was cool, so borrowed it to give their little darling Mary Rey Sue Palpwalker.

@motherofpearl1


This kind of sith makes me wonder what the filmmakers and writers are thinking about the ideal strong female character. Dark, complicated characters like Yennefer in Netflix's Witcher was deemed as "unlikeable" by the writer himself because she drew power through her pain and mental anguish after years of being abused plus she wanted to become a mother and to have kids, so the writer thought she was ...unlikeable, while the fandom felt sympathy for the character. Meanwhile, filmmakers/writers thought Mary Sue imposter like Rey Palp or annoying, self-centred character like Sabrina were cool and acceptable to represent women and feminism, the writers of both SW and Sabrina series were willing to go far to the point that they sacrificed the other characters to make Rey and Sabrina look better, and of course the writers' selfish, clueless choice made people end up resenting those 2 famous female protagonists even more. It's also such a shame that LFL thought it was a great choice to let Rey become a female version of Luke but this new Luke would rather choose fame (famous Skywalker name) than family, ironically, they only made the original male protagonist Luke look more heroic while Rey Palwalker had literally become a meme that wanted to be like Luke but failed.

Did you hear about the line of Rey "I will finish what Luke started"? Apparently she can have nothing of her own...

fuhry wrote:In the trevorrow script damerey is left unresolved, but Rey ends up with Finn and Rose and a bunch of force sensitive kids. The notes I n the script indicate she is attracted to Poe but the actual dialogue and action indicate that Poe’s way more into her than she is into him.

@fuhry
My goodness, I’m glad I didn’t waste my time reading the CT script!

You know..... it’s still possible there could be future Damerey.... post TROS....
Not that I’ll be watching or reading this story, unless Ben shows up to say: hell no Rey you belong with me! Cue Finn screaming: Reeeeeyyyyyy!
(I can dream..)

DeeBee wrote:

fuhry wrote:In the trevorrow script damerey is left unresolved, but Rey ends up with Finn and Rose and a bunch of force sensitive kids.  The notes I n the script indicate she is attracted to Poe but the actual dialogue and action indicate that Poe’s way more into her than she is into him.  

@fuhry
My goodness, I’m glad I didn’t waste my time reading the CT script!

You know..... it’s still possible there could be future Damerey.... post TROS....
Not that I’ll be watching or reading this story, unless Ben shows up to say: hell no Rey you belong with me! Cue Finn screaming: Reeeeeyyyyyy!
(I can dream..)

@DeeBee

I think that we must prepare ourselves for this possibility, unfortunately. I have never been a Damerey but I can understand why people who read added materials ship it. And I can't deny that the scene where he greets Rey felt...strange. Even in the BTS, it's as if everything was made to have Daisy look pretty and flirty with him. Had Kylo not been the Skywalker, I bet that we would have had Rey definitely closing her heart at the end of TLJ after what happened in the Throne Room and get the narrative of Kylo as the manipulative abusive guy harassing the girl. Everything is possible: if they really meant to have Rey as Space Rose Dawson then it would make sense that she finds a partner during her lifetime and joins Ben only in the afterlife.It's maybe not a coincidence if they made Poe the Han Solo of the ST, had him and Rey sharing the same taste for piloting skills, having them arguing over the MF and BB8 as if it was their common belonging, having his mother sharing physical similarities with Rey, having him wear a necklace that he would like to share with a future partner, having Zorrii out of the game and pushing canon added-materials about him.

reylo1992 wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

fuhry wrote:In the trevorrow script damerey is left unresolved, but Rey ends up with Finn and Rose and a bunch of force sensitive kids.  The notes I n the script indicate she is attracted to Poe but the actual dialogue and action indicate that Poe’s way more into her than she is into him.  

@fuhry
My goodness, I’m glad I didn’t waste my time reading the CT script!

You know..... it’s still possible there could be future Damerey.... post TROS....
Not that I’ll be watching or reading this story, unless Ben shows up to say: hell no Rey you belong with me! Cue Finn screaming: Reeeeeyyyyyy!
(I can dream..)

@DeeBee

I think that we must prepare ourselves for this possibility, unfortunately. I have never been a Damerey but I can understand why people who read added materials ship it. And I can't deny that the scene where he greets Rey felt...strange. Even in the BTS, it's as if everything was made to have Daisy look pretty and flirty with him. Had Kylo not been the Skywalker, I bet that we would have had Rey definitely closing her heart at the end of TLJ after what happened in the Throne Room and get the narrative of Kylo as the manipulative abusive guy harassing the girl. Everything is possible: if they really meant to have Rey as Space Rose Dawson then it would make sense that she finds a partner during her lifetime and joins Ben only in the afterlife.It's maybe not a coincidence if they made Poe the Han Solo of the ST, had him and Rey sharing the same taste for piloting skills, having them arguing over the MF and BB8 as if it was their common belonging, having his mother sharing physical similarities with Rey, having him wear a necklace that he would like to share with a future partner, having Zorrii out of the game and pushing canon added-materials about him.

@reylo1992

If Poe and Rey, or Finn and Rey, happen after TRoS, they will be the equivalent of Rose's husband in Titanic. Sure, they married, etc...but Jack/Ben is her true love, and who she reunited with at the end - spiritual realm.

For that reason, it doesn't bother me.

(I LOVE Jack and Rose, yet I always felt a bit of pity for her husband eek/lol)

OrionStars wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:I doubt if there's such a thing as 'innocent coincidence' where DLF are concerned these days.
They probably thought the yellow lightsabre was cool, so borrowed it to give their little darling Mary Rey Sue Palpwalker.

@motherofpearl1


This kind of sith makes me wonder what the filmmakers and writers are thinking about the ideal strong female character. Dark, complicated characters like Yennefer in Netflix's Witcher was deemed as "unlikeable" by the writer himself because she drew power through her pain and mental anguish after years of being abused plus she wanted to become a mother and to have kids, so the writer thought she was ...unlikeable, while the fandom felt sympathy for the character. Meanwhile, filmmakers/writers thought Mary Sue imposter like Rey Palp or annoying, self-centred character like Sabrina were cool and acceptable to represent women and feminism, the writers of both SW and Sabrina series were willing to go far to the point that they sacrificed the other characters to make Rey and Sabrina look better, and of course the writers' selfish, clueless choice made people end up resenting those 2 famous female protagonists even more. It's also such a shame that LFL thought it was a great choice to let Rey become a female version of Luke but this new Luke would rather choose fame (famous Skywalker name) than family, ironically, they only made the original male protagonist Luke look more heroic while Rey Palwalker had literally become a meme that wanted to be like Luke but failed.

Yennifer unlikeable?
Heck no! She's one of my favourite heroines. She has amazing courage, she's human, but she also has compassion.

I loved Rey in TFA. I loved her in TLJ......until she reached for the lightsabre. But I still was prepared to like her until TROS.

It's funny, but although the scene where she told him she 'wanted to take Ben's hand' was touching, I found myself thinking of Beauty and the Beast. Belle fell in love with the Beast, who became human through her love. I always thought that Rey had to accept that part of Ben would alway be Kylo, he was the shield he'd pulled around himself after years of neglect and abuse. That she would have to accept Kylo Ren as well as Ben Solo.
But...of course that would never happen because only 'Prince Ben' was good enough for Mary Rey Sue Palpwalker. And even then he had to die, because the spiritual daughter of The Twins was too noble to have a lover who was so damaged. TROS made Rey into an ideal of perfection and erased the 'sins' of those close to her so they could be 'worthy'. Thus, Luke is no longer the bitter, haunted man and Leia no longer the absentee mother, and Poe's c****ps in TLJ never mentioned again, as he was being groomed as a possible future suitor along with Force sensitive Finn ( although I suspect his role would be as Rey's dutiful apprentice.)
They didn't just destroy Ben - they destroyed Rey.

What is frustrating about Yennifer is that Sapkowski stated himself "I created a female character who refuses to be a fantasy stereotype. [ Who refuses] To please the reader.". He knew what female characters his audience (in that genre) was expecting and created someone who is more complicated. So it's not surprising that Yennifer was usually proclaimed a "b*tch" by players for obvious reasons

I actually identify with her up to a point.....I have a twisted spine myself, although of course nowhere near as bad as hers, and in my twenties I really wanted kids, but as an asexual woman it was 'out', probably a good thing as I have mental health problems due to autism, and I don't think I really would be a suitable mum.
I've never played the Witcher game, but I loved series Yennifer. And the last person I'd call her is a B****.

This brings back a funny memory....years ago I got banned from CBR for calling Scarlet Witch Scarlet B****. I wasn't referring to lovely Lizzie Olsen but the comic version who was being written horribly at the time.

The artist for the Kylo comics is also doing the TROS comic. Putting this here because it's always nice to see unmasked Ben, and made by someone who also likes Ben, unlike so many others at LF.

Lovely art.
I'm sorry I won't be buying it.

Atenais wrote:Did you hear about the line of Rey "I will finish what Luke started"? Apparently she can have nothing of her own...

@Atenais

Notice how they don't finish this trailer with the version of Kylo's theme like they did before the film was released in cinemas?

Looking back over the trilogy, the titles are all about Rey, aren't they?
The Force Awakens - in Rey
The Last Jedi - is Rey
The Rise of Skywalker - is Rey


The most irritating, unrelatable, and sanctimonious character in the entire saga - is Rey.

I don't think I have ever gone off a character as quickly as Mary Rey Sue Palpwalker. 🤬:

And by the way DLF - nice of you to rub salt in the wounds of Kylo/Ben fans by showing tha Han scene and burbling' 'a thousand generations live in you now' when actually that line was said to The Last Palpatine - which should have been the real title of this bullsith.
Not only have you broken our hearts, you have to laugh in our faces.

Patrick has done videos on SW before, he said this is the last one he'll do in the forseeable future. A lot of points that people would agree with here. He prefers the CT script over the real TROS, though he does say it has issues. Even if I don't agree on that one, I'll admit there are some things it does better.



@motherofpearl1 I feel like it's not so much about Rey so much as it's about her being a stand-in/vessel for whatever they need her for, it's pretty degrading. Jenny Nicholson just commented today about how she thought there was no yellow Rey toy saber for so long because of movie spoilers, but it's been over two months and she thinks it shows they stopped caring about Rey a long time ago. I think it's partly because the movie was so rushed and crammed and drastically changed at the last minute, the entire marketing and merchandising machine was undercooked and smaller as a whole. For all that SW and Disney love to sell the heck out of every property they have, it's like they barely tried before TROS came out and aren't trying at all now in the aftermath. They just announced a bunch of new toys for Mandalorian/Baby Yoda and TCW, not ST characters, that's where the priority is.

I was not a fan of High Fidelity & am not planning on watching the gender swapped television series reboot, but damn this review gets to the heart of what TRoS did to Rey and why so many women are pisssed about it, ""In this gender-swapped version, like all gender-swapped reboots, a woman protagonist is meant to retell a man’s story as if it is her own instead of being given the space to tell hers."

TFAand TLJ gave Rey space to tell her story which is why you had some fans constantly complaining about who her parents were, why she was so strong, how she had to be somebody's daughter et cetera. It's hard to say if Carrie Fisher hadn't died, how much noise she could've made and weight she could've thrown around in terms of the writing. Because what we saw in TLJ was partially thanks to her. But the quote about, it was about having her retell a man's story, both Luke's and the story of the fanboys who can't let go of their childhood nostalgia and can't imagine anything more exciting for her than to live out their childhood fantasy. At least credit Rian for saying he wanted to have her learn that nobody was going to hand her an answer/place in the story, she was going to have to figure it out for herself.

It never ceases to amaze me how popular TROS is with TLJ haters, whose main beef with TLJ is 'how It treated Luke.'

TROS has turned Luke and Leia into creepy Cersei and Jaime Lannister clones, who happily replaced their son/nephew with a 'purer' version of him - Leia in particular is shown in a bad light, and I'm pretty sure Carrie would never have sanctioned this.
The first two films showed the OT characters as good people who made mistakes, with tragic results, but who were willing to atone for those mistakes. TROS shows them as uncaring b******* who don't even mourn their lost child - after all, they've got Poe and Rey now, haven't they? How some so called 'long term' fans can accept this is beyond me.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

If Poe and Rey, or Finn and Rey, happen after TRoS, they will be the equivalent of Rose's husband in Titanic. Sure, they married, etc...but Jack/Ben is her true love, and who she reunited with at the end - spiritual realm.

For that reason, it doesn't bother me.

(I LOVE Jack and Rose, yet I always felt a bit of pity for her husband eek/lol)

@SW_Heroine_Journey

Nothing matters in ancillary materials. Not even best-selling Kylo comic books. Ancillary materials can be un-canon'd at any point by movies because film-makers are not beholden to them nor they read them. And even movies get their canon changed because continuity is the last thing franchises care about. It's only fans who make a big deal out of it.

Point being, no reason to be invested in books and comic books either in positive or negative way. They are niche. What GA doesn't know, doesn't exist.

Not only they retconned significant parts of the new EU in TROS, they also retconned elements of the previous two movies. If a director doesn't even care about his own previous movie, there's no reason why the fanbase should care about random comics no one is going to read.

I think CT's screenplay is definitely better, but the story is terrible. JJ and Terrio has both terrible script and the story.

LF should have never put ST in the creative prison where the story is obligated to end in one particular inevitable destination - Rey as spiritual true Skywalker. Lucas struggled with it in PT (Anakin should become Vader) but even then he didn't have complications like the whole OT trio as second row of important characters with impactful arcs.

They failed the theme they were pushing because they didn't give it even a tiny chance to develop and flow naturally. Lucas wanted Luke to become a new Vader in the end of trilogy, and he changed his mind. Like he changed his mind on a lot of of things linked to the final outcomes. That's what happens when you let the story flow.

RJ let the story flow and sabotaged boring, the most predictable on the this planet, plotline when Luke becomes Rey's wise mentor and she is Skywalker because perfect poster boy Luke chose some female to be Skywalker. RJ has good instincts and knew that Rey as "spiritual Skywalker" won't work after set ups in TFA. He tried to give Rey a unique position as a protagonist of Star Wars: she is nobody like Anakin, but not a Chosen One.

If JJ and Terrio tried to follow TLJ thematically, they could have at least cemented a significant theme for ST, with impactful resonance. Even if the execution is poor, at least the story would have been trying to say something new, like it was in PT.

There is zero discussions and mind pieces about the themes and the story in ST from major media. Nobody cares that Rey killed her grandfather, that Rey is new Skywalker, that Kylo was redeemed or killed, that Finn is FS etc. Hardcore fans discuss it, of course, but media for GA doesn't care about all of this: there is nothing to think about because after TLJ-TROS thematical contrast it feels like nothing matters in this story.

I hope someone asks CT why he thought that Damerrey should be the endgame. I want to know what he'll BS cause everyone could see his decision was based purely on "well, he's the only traditionally handsome male cast member so he should get the girl".

Their big mistake was they chose a character who just isn't interesting enough to be the main protagonist. If it was always their aim o kill off the last real Skywalker, then they shouldn't have made him a far richer character than Rey, and shouldn't have hired Adam Driver, an exceptionally fine actor, twice Oscar nominated, to play him.

They can insist all they like that they wanted to appeal to female viewers by giving them a 'voice,' so to speak, but I'm female, and frankly I lost interest in Rey from the very beginning of TROS. The fact is, her character can't carry a movie as well as Adam/Kylo can. Rey is likeable, at least in the first two films, but her interaction with Kylo was the best thing about her. TROS makes this painfully obvious, the scenes of the 'Trio' were unbelievably dull, especially when you compare them to the interaction of Mark, Carrie, and Harrison in the OT. To make matters worse, they completely destroyed Rey, turning her from the vulnerable girl desperately wanting a loving family into a person who had about as much humanity as a statue of a saint in a church. It was impossible to identify with this 'new' Rey - and having her forget Ben Solo's sacrifice for her was the last straw. She didn't mourn, she was happy sliding down sand dunes on a desert world identical to the one she'd grown up on and had nothing but bad memories about.

The fact was, they created an antagonist who was far better than the protagonist. No wonder quite a few members of the GA have said they'd rather Rey had died instead of Kylo. That's what they've done to her.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Their big mistake was they chose a character who just isn't interesting enough to be the main protagonist. If it was always their aim o kill off the last real Skywalker, then they shouldn't have made him a far richer character than Rey, and shouldn't have hired Adam Driver, an exceptionally fine actor, twice Oscar nominated, to play him.

to be fair to them, Adam wasn't a 2 time Oscar nominee when he was cast, so they couldn't predict how things would turn out. That said, I must say I'm surprised they dropped his character even though Adam earned his first nomination while TROS was still filmed. usually such turnarounds make studios re-think their previous decisions but guess not.

I agree that Rey is a dull character and, IMO, that largely comes from 2 things:

fear that she would offend some audience if she was less then perfect so they made her as inoffensive as possible right down to weird "child" coding (hair, toys, tomboy outfit that flattens her feminine features to boyish level) that she reverted into in TROS

attempt to build ST intrigue around her parentage in order to hide that they had no original ideas whatsoever and that ST was a soft OT reboot

As a result, they made sure surrounding characters were even duller so that they wouldn't upstage her - Finn was immediately reduced to her comic relief sidekick in TFA and then never grew out of pining for her (but in a "spoiled child wants a toy he couldn't have while ignoring toys that he could" rather than sexual way so that weird "child" coding kicks in again in order to make another character as inoffensive as possible) while Poe remained a non-entity despite bizarre attempts to make him the new Han when every such attampt failed. I think that Kylo/Ben popularity surprised them so they neutrralized him on Exegol in order to have Rey as the sole hero that defeats Palpatine, another desperate attempt to prevent her upstaging. Which, in return, went against the Dyad concept so why the heck they created it to drop it seconds after explaining it? Mess.

There were some think pieces about why TROS was bad, or bad specifically for Ben or Rey, for about a month after release. Even the hardcore fanbase was slowing down after a month and a half, once creators stopped talking about the movie, with the occasional upswing whenever there's a new drama or piece of content. With the finale of the Kylo comics, and the upcoming TROS novel, art book, and video release with documentary, March/early April is going to be a wild ride for fandom. Hopefully that's the last big pang though.

People have already moved away from the franchise or on to Clone Wars which just started again, or to comics or Galaxy's Edge or baby Yoda or other SW things that aren't TROS. It weirdly feels as if it didn't happen at all.

I think the TLJ haters liked the sanctimonious wise Jedi master Luke/Leia figures. They didn't care about Ben, and neither do the haters. Not sure if that spiteful attitude carries on long term beyond the small, vocal online group of diehards.

I too am not sure why they did the whole dyad thing, culminating in the kiss, to immediately strike it down. They're one in the force... except half this embodiment of the force is dead, so... how does this work and what was its purpose exactly?