Official TROS Spoilers discussion

I've said here and elsewhere that the fact that the ST started out with "we have the whole story to unspool over the next 4-5 years through film, movies, games, and television shows" where ultimately we get the full story about characters nobody wants to know about (GTFO Snap Wexley), retconning new characters like Qi'ra and Enfys Nest to pre-existing PT characters, and meanwhile they can't commit to telling the story about the main two characters of the trilogy between movies and the tie-in novels. I invested myself as an audience member because of the story they said that they were setting up in TFA and Bloodline, started to unfold in TLJ, and then it went...off in a completely different direction. I have to assume that it's equal parts Maz's line about how "that's a different story for another time" and the different creatives involved in 5 different movies were on the same page up to a certain point, but then the studio intervened. TRoS should have been the finale of the story that was set up back in 2015 but instead the studio couldn't commit to anything signficant for fear of alienating any potential consumers for the theme park/roller coaster, cruise ship/convention events, and/or streaming service. There were themes that were very obvious between the proceeding 5 movies that it was reasonable to expect TRoS to follow through with, especially for Rey and Ben. But too many cooks in the kitchen and in the last part of the relay race, something happened that makes me think both the studio intervened b/c of their other product roll outs, along with JJ deciding that he was going to do what he personally wanted to do, continuity and other writers be damned. Which is too bad, there was potential there with the final movie for something incredible.

Currently watching Alfie Boe singing Bring Jim Home from Les Miserables.....
I can't listen to it without thinking of the Han/Kylo's scene from TFA....

Never was there a story of more woe than of Star Wars in a galaxy A long time ago ...

They're posting excerpts from the Poe Dameron novel over on another forum, seems they are sticking to his past as a spice smuggler. And now talking about the Poe/Rey/Finn comic.

I guess DLF are determined to stick by TROS. The future is Trio.

@AhsokaTano
Yupp, sounds like the most tragic of all tragedies to me. How fitting for SW, originally a story of hope and love.
Romeo and Juliet had at least some fun togehter before they died.  

@motherofpearl1
This "future" could be their downfall.

The Poe book was decided on before TROS came out. That they haven't announced any more ST content outside a select number of kid's comics, and no post-TROS content, is kind of revealing. There's even rumors that the TROS comic adaptation might not even come out.

The junior graphic novel is coming out next month, but I'm surprised about the other comic adaptation.

What they should do is print a copy with an alternative ending!

They all ran away from TROS like people slinking out of a hotel without paying.

Good description.

Charles Soule says elements of the story in TROS were really secretive, I wonder how much he knew or didn't know about it while writing the Kylo comic.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/charles-soule-ben-solo-rise-of-kylo-ren-interview

Hiya, thought I’d share this collider article from 30 July because... well.. it made me happy. Why?
Well it’s an article ranking JJ’s movies from worst to best... and.. guess what was worst?!
https://collider.com/best-jj-abrams-movies-ranked/#star-wars-the-force-awakens
I’ll share the TROS entry:

Forgive the double post I didn't want to add this to my previous post - I just found that the Star Wars Databank has finally been updated with the TROS gallery for Rey and for Kylo. I haven't looked at it all yet, thought I'd share they are up and enjoy being salty at it this weekend.. but..
I did look at two of the slides straight away: the one with Rey and Kylo's final moment together. because.. I was convinced the 'kiss' wouldn't get a mentioned.. well.. see the two entries for yourself!
Rey's version:


&
Kylo's version:


In one she's dead, in another she's nearly dead. rofl. this is so bad it's pretty hilarious!
This movie just cannot get it right. Staggeringly lame - just like TROS.
Star Wars deserves way better than this!!!!
I'd love to hear if you check it out and find anything of note..
I'm going to close it down so I don't fall down this rabbit hole till the weekend lol.
                       

Yes, Collider, this SHOULD have been the battle for Ben's soul, but no. Instead, JJ kept Rey firmly away from him, except when he wanted yet another scene of her trying to kill him, and instead it was all about the Trio.

Quite possibly the dullest group of heroes I've seen in a major film. Finn should have been under cover on the base where the FO brainwashed children to become stormtroopers. Poe should have been running the Resistance. Instead their purpose was to trail around after Rey, rather like Michonne's zombies in Walking Dead, screaming her name every five minutes or showering her with tedious complements. And I honestly can't believe how horrible they made Rey - when she was demanding that he give her the wayfinder I wanted to slap her!

They pushed Rey at the expense of Ben. And if it was to appease his haters, it didn't work. I've signed out of a forum I was a member of for ten years because I can't stand the Kylo hate, and I'm on the verge of doing it with another. I've been accused of sympathising with fascism, seen anyone who supports Reylo accused of racism, because she 'should have been with Finn', and got threatened with a ban because I was so fed up of one individual spewing vitriol I told him to put a sock in it!

It it pleases them I'm no longer a Reylo fan, because they've destroyed Rey. And I'm no longer a SW fan, lastly because of what they did, and partly because I don't wish to be associated with these horrible people.

I am however, a. Ben/Kylo fan. He's my favourite all time SW character, and I could watch a hundred films, read a thousand comics, just with him.

I've had enough of Rey and her Acolytes after three films.

Didn't know Collider could produce anything good! At least there's less debate about this movie than the two previous ones.

In hindsight, delaying it a year might have meant not getting it for even longer, since I'm not sure if most theaters will be up and running in December. It would also be competing with Dune, the other giant space opera, which I'm expecting might also get delayed.

I'm genuinely bewildered as to why they say it was rushed..... didn't Johnson put out TLJ in the same time frame?

I guess the problem with “the battle for Kylo’s soul” is that it kinda already happened in TLJ where Rey was actively trying to save his soul, and failed. At the time, it was very much agreed that it was ultimately up to Kylo himself to save himself, that it would send out the right message and avoid the problematic “you can save a man” story, etc. Which is all fine, but if the battle for Kylo’s soul is what the story is about and it’s Kylo’s battle to win, where does this leave Rey, the supposed protagonist of the series, if she plays no active part in his change of heart? It just all highlights the basic problem of having Rey as the protagonist in the first place. And of course, bringing Palpatine back and making Rey a Palpatine was partly an attempt to bring Rey back into the centre of the story (which failed miserably).

@motherofpearl1 No, the time frame for TLJ was longer than both TFA and especially TROS.

DeeBee wrote:Hiya, thought I’d share this collider article from 30 July because... well.. it made me happy. Why?
Well it’s an article ranking JJ’s movies from worst to best... and.. guess what was worst?!
https://collider.com/best-jj-abrams-movies-ranked/#star-wars-the-force-awakens

@DeeBee

Thanks for sharing this article. The analogy about the dentist is really great. That's the reason I'm avoiding to rewatch this movie. I hate going to the dentist.

*****

Now, let me share something very hilarious I found on Twitter.

It's about the tittles of the movies being totally wrong:

https://twitter.com/_Cody1021_/status/1289014965790109696

Saracene wrote:I guess the problem with “the battle for Kylo’s soul” is that it kinda already happened in TLJ where Rey was actively trying to save his soul, and failed. At the time, it was very much agreed that it was ultimately up to Kylo himself to save himself, that it would send out the right message and avoid the problematic “you can save a man” story, etc. Which is all fine, but if the battle for Kylo’s soul is what the story is about and it’s Kylo’s battle to win, where does this leave Rey, the supposed protagonist of the series, if she plays no active part in his change of heart? It just all highlights the basic problem of having Rey as the protagonist in the first place. And of course, bringing Palpatine back and making Rey a Palpatine was partly an attempt to bring Rey back into the centre of the story (which failed miserably).

With respect..... what's all this 'women should not save men' rubbish?
Many women have saved men. Many men have saved women. It's got nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with love.
As Rose said, you win by saving what you love. Kylo was a screwed up, mentally ill abuse victim. First and foremost. This is how he was coded. And THAT'S what he needed saving from.
At the end of Titanic Rose described Jack as 'saving her in every way possible'. But apparently it's beneath us ladies to help someone we love because in the new woke culture it degrades being a 'strong woman?
I'm sorry but I find that a horrible message. And I absolutely HATED how Rey reacted to Kylo's clumsy proposal by reaching for a weapon.


She could have told him to get lost. Instead she reached for that lightsabre. She had no reason to fear him. He'd killed Snoke for her. He'd fought back to back with her. And her idea of rejecting his proposal was to draw a lightsabre?
It's the one part of TLJ I couldn't stand.
And although Kylo was in the wrong in dismissing Rey's friends in the Resistance (most of who she didn't know) the manner of her rejection made him ten times worse. Kylo made the wrong decision, but Rey's attitude didn't help things one bit.

And Rey telling Kylo to get lost would have made things better... how exactly? Sure he most likely wouldn’t hurt her, but do you think Kylo would just play nice and let Rey go? I mean sorry, but maybe Kylo’s feelings just weren’t the biggest priority in the room when he was totally cool with killing off the people Rey cared about? He sure didn’t give a damn about Rey’s feelings.

Yeah it would be great if both genders were seen equally and fiction wasn’t influenced by the real-life dynamic between men and women, but that’s just not the world we live in.

Honestly, I don´t get this whole "this could be problematic, and that could be problematic, so we cannot touch the subject" stuff.
It´s fiction. If some people are no longer able to distinct between fiction and real life: sorry, their problem.
Where are we heading, when everything has to be oriented towards their world-views ?
If there are no conflicts and no problems, then there is no story. What kind of movie do these people want? Peter, Paul and Mary sitting around the kitchen table, talking pleasantly about the pleasant weather for two hours?
This whole whitewashing and tiptoeing around everything what mayyybeee could be seen as "problematic" from this or that group of people ruins everything.
You can never please everyone. And if you try, you get something like TROS, a rotten pile of minced meat. And the result will be that you please nobody in the end.

As I've said before, Ive backed off a number of forums because of the Kylo hate, I wasn't keen on being more or less accused of liking fascism because I love Kylo.
I tried to point out that at the end of the day it's just a fantasy film, to no avail.
I have been accused of:
Agreeing with totalitarian Nazi like regimes
Disrespecting Han and Leia for suggesting that they were less than perfect at being parents
Essentially supporting abusive toxic relationships, by liking reylo and TLJ - how DARE Rian Johnson suggest Rey might fall in love with the man who 'assaulted, kidnapped and tortured her' (their words, not mine), killed her father figure and tried to kill her friends.

I've also been slated for having the audacity to point out Kylo had nothing to do with Hosnia. "He was just as responsible, he should have been put to death". Actual words.

Trying to point out it's all a fantasy film is like beating your head against a brick wall. And I am so very tired of it.
I see a future where there's no such thing as romance in films and books, because it's seen as demeaning to women (Rey didn't need romance, SW doesn't need romance) - again, an actual comment.

I guess we aren't allowed escapism these days. No wonder depression is on the rise.

I’d like to think that this current phase is just a phase, but unfortunately there’s no indication that tiptoeing over “problematic” is going to be over any time soon. It honestly makes me wish Reylo happened in bad old times before wokeness.

Can you imagine if they tried to get Wuthering Heights published these days?

Saracene wrote:I’d like to think that this current phase is just a phase, but unfortunately there’s no indication that tiptoeing over “problematic” is going to be over any time soon. It honestly makes me wish Reylo happened in bad old times before wokeness.

@Saracene

I don't think the problem is the time the movies were made. If they had a solid story, people would like it. They had three movies that didn't talk the same language. This thing, about being problematic or not, was only discussed between the fans and antis. People are making bad problematic movies all the time, and there's still people consuming it.

You can make a good movie, that deal with problematic elements and still make a good job, if you believe in your story. It's not the case here.