Kylo's lineage and romances that created him (Anidala, Hanleia)

vaderito wrote:

Hi all,

This is a thread to discuss Kylo's lineage - from Shmi and Naberries (even Plagueis but NOT Snoke is Plagueis Theory please!) to Anakin and Padme to Leia's adoptive family to Han and Leia. Yes, you can throw uncle Luke and his adoptive family into the mix too.

But the biggest deal is that Kylo is a child of two epic SW romances: Anidala and Hanleia. And he may well get his own epic romance with Rey.





Therefore, this is a thread to discuss both romances and how they relate to Reylo (Reverse Anidala, for example), as well as Kylo's family and how they relate to him ("too much Vader in him", "weak and foolish like his father"). Other topics:

Amazing Skywalker helmet hair
Skywalker penchant for dramatic unmasking
Skywalker penchant for gazing at celestial objects
Whiny Skywalker males
Solo smirk

MeadowofAshes wrote:I'm on board with reverse Anidala. I doubt the line "This will begin to make things right" was just a not-so-subtle dig at the prequels. I really think they're also foreshading reverse Anidala making the prequels romance right.

That being said, I like that Rey and Kylo/Ben begin with a solid Han/Leia foundation. Han and Leia are a great romance. Sure, they give each other crap and argue a lot and they don't start out liking each other, but the most important part of their relationship to me is they begin as equals. Further, they are equals who challenge one another and grow together.

Han: Some girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.

This is right after she's blasted a hole into the wall and ordered everyone to jump into a garbage chute while insulting them, mind you. Leia doesn't take crap from anyone, let alone a couple of presumptuous men there to rescue her, and even if it fruatrates him Han digs that.

They say men grow up to marry their mother. But seriously, this is also the dynamic I appreciate with Kylo and Rey. Sure, he has that trademark Skywalker fascination with her, but I see more Solo there. He's intrigued by her, but his real infatuation comes when she challenges him, from the time she calls his lightsaber to her to her handing him his butt on a platter. That boy has got it bad. And how does he respond to her calling his legacy lightsaber? By meeting her as an equal. By offering to teach her, because she DOES need a teacher and he sees her as a worthy opponent and formidable ally.

vaderito wrote:There's too much Vader in him:





He was weak and foolish like his father:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

vaderito wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:I'm on board with reverse Anidala. I doubt the line "This will begin to make things right" was just a not-so-subtle dig at the prequels. I really think they're also foreshading reverse Anidala making the prequels romance right.

Totally. The dig is ever so unsubtle which is why we got lots of reversed moments from TP. As someone said, Kylo's Anakin done right.

That being said, I like that Rey and Kylo/Ben begin with a solid Han/Leia foundation. Han and Leia are a great romance. Sure, they give each other crap and argue a lot and they don't start out liking each other, but the most important part of their relationship to me is they begin as equals. Further, they are equals who challenge one another and grow together.

Agreed. Also, Rey is strong like Leia and doesn't take crap from Kylo, while Kylo is very much like Anakin which is, IMO, great combo. Rey calls Kylo out on his bullsith. "You are a monstah" is exactly what Kylo needed to hear after killing Han and, while Anakin could be somewhat excused for slaughtering all Tuskens including children with red mist due to his mother's death, "to be angry is to be human" was 100% wrong response that Padme game him. Especially since he confessed in order to get some scolding or even punishment.

Han: Some girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.

Kylo's feelings about Rey in a nutshell. He definitely began to love her here

This is right after she's blasted a hole into the wall and ordered everyone to jump into a garbage chute while insulting them, mind you. Leia doesn't take crap from anyone, let alone a couple of presumptuous men there to rescue her, and even if it fruatrates him Han digs that.

And that was right after Rey called legacy LS which is humiliating/insulting to Kylo when you think about it, especially coming after she read his deepest fear. And yet...weak and foolish like his father, Kylo fell in love.  

They say men grow up to marry their mother. But seriously, this is also the dynamic I appreciate with Kylo and Rey. Sure, he has that trademark Skywalker fascination with her, but I see more Solo there. He's intrigued by her, but his real infatuation comes when she challenges him, from the time she calls his lightsaber to her to her handing him his butt on a platter. That boy has got it bad. And how does he respond to her calling his legacy lightsaber? By meeting her as an equal. By offering to teach her, because she DOES need a teacher and he sees her as a worthy opponent and formidable ally.

truth is, Anakin and Han aren;t that different when it comes to falling in love and poor Kylo can't escape either genes.

This is why I dislike both Anakin and Padme as characters. There are too many red flags to count but Padme for some reason I cannot fathom falls for the guy. And she enables him with lines like that, that's the worst part. He's a raging narcissist and egomaniac and she throws him a pity party for slaughtering a village of people including women and children. (Then completely gives up on life when she has two new children to care for - get outta here).

And speaking of my mother, I was explaining all the signs of Reylo after we watched TFA the other day. Anyway, she was asking about Ben Solo, what made him turn, etc. And conversation came around to how Rey and Kylo/Ben are two sides of the same coin, she brings out compassion in him, he was "weak and foolish like his father", his family really takes to Rey and my interpretation is she probably reminds them a lot of Ben when he was a boy. So from this information we can glean that Ben Solo was a compassionate individual. Indeed, he is "weak and foolish" with his compassion and I think there's a component of Rey reminding him of the boy/young man he has tried to destroy.

Oh here's another Solo parallel. Han tells Finn women always find out the truth. Always. Sounds like something he learned from experience and probably a grain of wisdom imparted to his son. Now I contend there are already things to like about Kylo or that at least make him endearing - his mother's dry humor, his father's smirk (in fact, he seems his most likeable when he lets his family traits come through), but even if these don't endear one even reluctantly to Kylo, the one thing he really does have going for him is integrity. Snoke is the only character he lies, very poorly, to. He is honest with Rey. An interrogator would never tell a prisoner they have no idea where their friends are - they would say they've captured their friends and they've already given some information so the prisoner may as well confess. Or that they have their friends and if the prisoner doesn't talk their friends will get hurt. With Rey, Kylo has integrity, therefore we can assume Ben Solo has integrity. Indeed, as Pablo said, his bloodline is what makes Kylo interesting. When you start to notice all the traits that can probably be attributed to Ben Solo and therefore Ben's family, Kylo does become highly interesting.

It's possible she didn't believe him, but she puts on some serious blinders considering the other red flags he brings to the table. His manipulative line about the "kiss she never should have given him". He instigated the kiss and he's trying to guilt trip her into a relationship. I dunno, he is just so off-putting to me it's hard to imagine wearing the cute kid Anakin goggles for that long. I will say this, Anidala is a fantastic cautionary tale for my kids in choosing suitors!

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Anyone seen this little interesting meta? It discusses both the Anakin/Padme and the Han/Leia romance and how it parallels with Reylo.

https://noodlekuki.tumblr.com/post/142193876569/a-reylo-prediction-sw-parallels

For each couple, there are a few parallels:
1) There are obstacles to overcome or odds against them.
Anidala- the Jedi Order is against falling in love/getting married, something that keeps Anakin and Padme from giving in to their emotions until the end of AotC.
Hanleia- Leia and Han do not get along at first and she stubbornly treats him like the no-good, dirty scoundrel he acts out to be until he finally convinces Leia to admit her true feelings.
Prediction!Reylo- this pairing faces the strongest obstacles, what with their current adversarial relationship. Not only are they kept apart by their respective sides of conflict, but possible feelings will be difficult to cope with as a result. It’s pretty clear that Kylo Ren/Ben has a fixation on Rey, which causes him to struggle between his path to the dark side and inner light. As for Rey, she is connected to him, like it or not, and I believe that she will have to confront this in the future. In fact, this ship is something of a mixture of both previous ships, having the forbidden aspect of Anidala and the repressed feelings of Hanleia.

2) There are implications in the first of each trilogy that the pairing may come to fruition later on and, interestingly enough, each initiated by the man.
Anidala- From the moment they meet in The Phantom Menace, Anakin is enamored by Padme, even mistaking her for an angel. Years later, when they encounter again, he is driven by a passionate desire that Padme tries to shut down, but eventually admits to, herself.
Hanleia- In A New Hope, Han and Leia are quickly polarizing one another, but even then Han admits that he may be starting to like her and asks Luke what he thinks about the idea of him being with Leia. Later, he encourages her to lower her defenses and quit pretending that she dislikes him so much, leading to her giving in to their first kiss.
Prediction!Reylo- In The Force Awakens, the two are clearly enemies, yet a strange tension lingers about every encounter, mostly due to Kylo.

Darth_Awakened wrote:Interesting thread. I have been thinking about this subject a lot of lately.

The starting point was Han s statement: There is too much Vader in him.
And somehow, having in mind Han s tendency to simplify the things (from the day one litteraly (OT) I came to conclusion that this statement is completely wrong.
It can be interpreted as truthful only on the surface level (the dark side). Deep down Kylo is more Han than everybody else (i.e. Skywalkers).

I also tend to interpret killing off Han as a vain attempt to kill off Han in himself. We saw later on that Kylo did not succed being overpowered by Rey in a typical Solo s "weakness".

I am still curious about Leia and Kylo...despite obvious mother - son relation, I think there s more to it. Hopefully Bloodline book would give us some more info on the subject.

Irina de France wrote:Not sure if this would be the appropriate thread to post them, but I fell across a couple of really interesting videos explaining why the Hanleia romance worked so well while Anidala didn't. It's worth the watch, really ;)

vaderito wrote:@panki Great ideas, especially Leia-Bail-Han. As for Padme and Anakin, I've been hearing about mother-son angle but that kind of doesn't work because Anakin fell in love with Padme while he was still with his mother. Remember: