So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

I don't think it's shocking for me to admit that I only really paid attention to Ewan McGregor in the PT (Hell, he's the only reason I had to watch them). So I fast forwarded through the love story, which sounds like it was really badly done anyways. But several of you have mentioned the idea that this might work out as the exact dynamic between characters except in reverse or mirrored order. I'm curious what that might mean.

snufkin wrote:I don't think it's shocking for me to admit that I only really payed attention to Ewan McGregor in the PT (Hell, he's the only reason I had to watch them), so I basically fast forwarded between the whole love story part. Which sounds like it was really badly done anyways. But several of you have mentioned the idea that this might work out as the exact dynamic between characters except in reverse or mirrored order. So I'm curious what that might mean.

@snufkin

Reverse Anidala Theory:

Anakin and Padme meet while he is a cute good kid. That he will become a Dark Lord is in a distant future and both are unaware of it.
Rey meets Kylo while he is already a Dark Lord. She is yet to learn about the "cute good kid". But it's coming one way or the other (cue all those flashback scenes with child Ben from old script and proposed child Ben&Snoke scene)

Anakin's darkest hour comes in the third (last Prequel) movie and he loses Padme (she leaves him and than dies).
Kylo's darkest hour comes in the first ST movie (out of three) and he finds Rey (she doesn't want to leave him after disfiguring him but ravine opens and she can only look back where he lies)

Anakin defeats Padme mentally and physically in ROTS.
Kylo awakens Rey's Force who in return defeats him mentally and physically.

Anakin fell into the Dark Side due to tainted romantic love (they lived a lie) but familial love for his son redeemed him.
Kylo fell into the Dark Side due to tainted familial love (felt abandoned by his parents) but romantic love could redeem him.

Snow Fight plays like an inversion of Mustafar (even with different depiction of symbolic hell - snow/cold vs fire/lava) where Padme/Rey acts like Obi Wan to Kylo's Anakin

That's the gist. BTW, I'm a fan of Anidala. It's a very interesting romance and dialog is fine, IMO. It suits the characters especially Anakin who would speak in flowery prose to impress the former Queen.

credit http://swprequelframes.tumblr.com/

@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

@snufkin

This tumbler is really good, especially their passion for GL's talents & vision and their obvious love for the PT. Hopefully, with Reylo we get a modern hybrid of Hanleia & Anidala but I also see a lot of Obikin, the other "love story" in Star Wars.

I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD

spacebaby45678 wrote:

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view  - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

@snufkin

This tumbler is really good, especially their passion for GL's talents & vision and their obvious love for the PT. Hopefully, with Reylo we get a modern hybrid of Hanleia & Anidala but I also see a lot of Obikin, the other "love story" in Star Wars.

@spacebaby45678

I enjoyed the breakdown of the cinematography and themes. Per your Bene Geserit user icon, I did just recently try watching them and my big problem is that George Lucas just can't compete with Frank Herbert. The visuals are beautiful but in terms of space politics and insane world building, nothing is going to ever compete with the story that was in my head the first time I read Dune

Irina de France wrote:I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD

@Irina de France

Great summary! Although we can all agree if there was the option for a picnic scene, Rey would be there front loading on anything she could eat and shoving breadsticks into her tool bag for later.

snufkin wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view  - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

@snufkin

This tumbler is really good, especially their passion for GL's talents & vision and their obvious love for the PT. Hopefully, with Reylo we get a modern hybrid of Hanleia & Anidala but I also see a lot of Obikin, the other "love story" in Star Wars.

@spacebaby45678

I enjoyed the breakdown of the cinematography and themes. Per your Bene Geserit user icon, I did just recently try watching them and my big problem is that George Lucas just can't compete with Frank Herbert. The visuals are beautiful but in terms of space politics and insane world building, nothing is going to ever compete with the story that was in my head the first time I read [i]Dune

Irina de France wrote:I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD

@Irina de France

Great summary! Although we can all agree if there was the option for a picnic scene, Rey would be there front loading on anything she could eat and shoving breadsticks into her tool bag for later.

@snufkin

One thing that I think is very interesting is that you brought up Leia and Han don't really talk about any kind of project in the future, or anything of the like together. So, of course, obviously, they're meant to be the traditional rom-com Princess and Scoundrel pairing, but it does brings some rather sad implications for Ben. The more the time goes, the more I realize that while I love Han and Leia to bits, and I ship them like there's no tomorrow, and there are no doubt amazing people, but were they cut to be parents? Unfortunately, no. That doesn't make them bad people, though. Not everyone is made to become a parent. But I can't help but think (as much as I hate to say it) that with Ben being an only child, and him being born at not so much the right moment (like a year after the battle of Endor), I can't help but think he was a bit of an accident...

I think Anidala had a lot, but A LOT of potential, but Ol' Georgie just really messed them up. I quite liked them in TCW. Their relationship still wasn't perfect, but it was never meant to be, in my opinion. I don't really understand why he didn't have Anakin and Padmé being the same age in TPM, because it would have still worked, and even, it would have worked so much better, but hey.

Think of it:

- 14-year-old slave boy Anakin is in the middle of his teenage crisis, feels a very deep revolt because of his slave status.
- His mother is concerned about him because all he likes is pod racing.
- He meets Padmé for the first time and he tries a (very bad) attempt to flirt with her with "Are you an angel?" and she just turns away while lifting her nose because he's just another stupid boy, ugh.
- Qui-Gon and Anakin's interactions would have been A+ to be honest.
- During the meal with the Skywalkers, Qui-Gon and Padmé, Anakin and Padmé basically bicker at each other until Padmé manages to say something that shuts Anakin up and Qui-Gon and Shmi just look at each other like...
- Anakin brags to Padmé he's going to save them by pod racing: "The Queen would not approve of trusting our lives in you." "Hmpf, well the Queen doesn't to know." "Well I don't approve." (FORESHADOWING HELLO)
- Insert a few scenes where you realize that they don't hate each other that much...
- And queue to the scene where Anakin gives Padmé the necklace and she keeps it "BUT IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE HIM!"
- And then Anakin's line in AOTC about: "I've given up arguing with you anyway" would suddenly make so much sense
- Yoda would have a good reason to say Anakin is too old to be trained, and the whole anger/fear stuff would make a lot of sense

Anyway, enough rambling, and about the picnic... I can just imagine at first Kylo being all prim and proper while eating (Leia raised him right at least on that part) while Rey has zero table manners. "You eat like a Hutt" and queue him getting Force pushed far away while Rey shrugs and starts eating in his plate. And when he comes back, he actually doesn't mind, because smol girlfriend needs to eat, poor thing...

snufkin wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view  - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

@snufkin

This tumbler is really good, especially their passion for GL's talents & vision and their obvious love for the PT. Hopefully, with Reylo we get a modern hybrid of Hanleia & Anidala but I also see a lot of Obikin, the other "love story" in Star Wars.

@spacebaby45678

I enjoyed the breakdown of the cinematography and themes. Per your Bene Geserit user icon, I did just recently try watching them and my big problem is that George Lucas just can't compete with Frank Herbert. The visuals are beautiful but in terms of space politics and insane world building, nothing is going to ever compete with the story that was in my head the first time I read Dune

Irina de France wrote:I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD

@Irina de France

Great summary! Although we can all agree if there was the option for a picnic scene, Rey would be there front loading on anything she could eat and shoving breadsticks into her tool bag for later.

@snufkin

I could not agree with you more, Herbert is boss, and how much did GL copy Dune? So much! That could be a whole thread all on it's own. The Litany against fear v. fear is the path to the dark side?

@spacebaby45678 - I'm sort of joking when I say that I wish GL had instead taken the money/resources he spent on the PT (which was clearly a very personal passion project) and given it instead to Alejandro Jodorowsky to finally do his version of Dune. Star Wars and Alien did apparently benefit from the upfront production and art design done for Jodorowsky's scrapped project, but the final version would've been insane. Although Dune is like Cloud Atlas, where turning the book into a straight forward movie narrative was a challenge.



And clearly poor delude Ben/Kylo has probably been sold a bill of goods by Snoke that he's meant to be some kind of Paul Atreides type character and he sure seems to think that Rey from the desert is his Chani (which she's not going for, no sir). I would love to see the next movie go into where he may be right and also figuring out how badly he's been manipulated/misled by his supposed mentor. Which hopefully is a divergence or done right versus what Lucas did in the PT.

And for anybody who hasn't read Dune, it's a classic and worth the time as a long read:

“Dune,” climate fiction pioneer: The ecological lessons of Frank Herbert’s sci-fi masterpiece were ahead of its time
What sets “Dune” apart from the space adventures of the time is the amount of meticulous detail Herbert brought to the task of world building, and how he managed to layer his saga with well-chosen elements of religion, politics, mythology and ecology. A reporter for the Seattle Post Intelligencer, the San Francisco Examiner and other West Coast papers, Herbert was inspired by a visit he made to Florence, Oregon, where sand dunes were creating havoc by drifting across roads and into buildings. The United States Department of Agriculture began planting European grasses on the dunes to stabilize them, and Herbert, planning to write an article titled, “They Stopped the Moving Sand,” charted a plane to observe the projects progress. His research led him to consider why deserts were so often home to messianic figures.

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 - I'm sort of joking when I say that I wish GL had instead taken the money/resources he spent on the PT (which was clearly a very personal passion project) and given it instead to Alejandro Jodorowsky to finally do his version of Dune. Star Wars and Alien did apparently benefit from the upfront production and art design done for Jodorowsky's scrapped project, but the final version would've been insane. Although Dune is like Cloud Atlas, where turning the book into a straight forward movie narrative was a challenge.



And clearly poor delude Ben/Kylo has probably been sold a bill of goods by Snoke that he's meant to be some kind of Paul Atreides type character and he sure seems to think that Rey from the desert is his Chani (which she's not going for, no sir). I would love to see the next movie go into where he may be right and also figuring out how badly he's been manipulated/misled by his supposed mentor. Which hopefully is a divergence or done right versus what Lucas did in the PT.

And for anybody who hasn't read Dune, it's a classic and worth the time as a long read:

“Dune,” climate fiction pioneer: The ecological lessons of Frank Herbert’s sci-fi masterpiece were ahead of its time
What sets “Dune” apart from the space adventures of the time is the amount of meticulous detail Herbert brought to the task of world building, and how he managed to layer his saga with well-chosen elements of religion, politics, mythology and ecology. A reporter for the Seattle Post Intelligencer, the San Francisco Examiner and other West Coast papers, Herbert was inspired by a visit he made to Florence, Oregon, where sand dunes were creating havoc by drifting across roads and into buildings. The United States Department of Agriculture began planting European grasses on the dunes to stabilize them, and Herbert, planning to write an article titled, “They Stopped the Moving Sand,” charted a plane to observe the projects progress. His research led him to consider why deserts were so often home to messianic figures.

@snufkin

I got problems with Dune.

Actually, I have one problem and it's name is Paul Atreides. The first Dune novel is fantastic, except for the chapters dealing with Paul; the kid's just insufferable (Gary Stu, much?). Apart from that, everything is amazing: the world-building, the mythology, Jessica and Leto, the Harkonnen/Imperial conspiracy against the Atreides. (To any Paul fans out there, please note: this is all my opinion and therefore not worth all that much).

Dune Messiah fixes everything that was wrong with the first book for me. Dune Messiah is one of the greatest novels ever written, IMO. Dune Messiah is where it's at! Did I mention I love Dune Messiah?

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 - I'm sort of joking when I say that I wish GL had instead taken the money/resources he spent on the PT (which was clearly a very personal passion project) and given it instead to Alejandro Jodorowsky to finally do his version of Dune. Star Wars and Alien did apparently benefit from the upfront production and art design done for Jodorowsky's scrapped project, but the final version would've been insane. Although Dune is like Cloud Atlas, where turning the book into a straight forward movie narrative was a challenge.



And clearly poor delude Ben/Kylo has probably been sold a bill of goods by Snoke that he's meant to be some kind of Paul Atreides type character and he sure seems to think that Rey from the desert is his Chani (which she's not going for, no sir). I would love to see the next movie go into where he may be right and also figuring out how badly he's been manipulated/misled by his supposed mentor. Which hopefully is a divergence or done right versus what Lucas did in the PT.

And for anybody who hasn't read Dune, it's a classic and worth the time as a long read:

“Dune,” climate fiction pioneer: The ecological lessons of Frank Herbert’s sci-fi masterpiece were ahead of its time
What sets “Dune” apart from the space adventures of the time is the amount of meticulous detail Herbert brought to the task of world building, and how he managed to layer his saga with well-chosen elements of religion, politics, mythology and ecology. A reporter for the Seattle Post Intelligencer, the San Francisco Examiner and other West Coast papers, Herbert was inspired by a visit he made to Florence, Oregon, where sand dunes were creating havoc by drifting across roads and into buildings. The United States Department of Agriculture began planting European grasses on the dunes to stabilize them, and Herbert, planning to write an article titled, “They Stopped the Moving Sand,” charted a plane to observe the projects progress. His research led him to consider why deserts were so often home to messianic figures.

@snufkin

The shades are there and parallels are there and that is why I fully expect Renperor is coming, but one would have to really know Dune to pick that up in TFA... I know this is off subject but I found this just now while working on something else...


Of all the ideas George Lucas inherited from Frank Herbert, the subtle lesson was how to use science fiction to create myth. His lesser borrowings might include

@Armadeus - it's a totally valid opinion! I love all of the stuff you mentioned (world building, mythology...) but was deeply pissed as a 19 year old reading it for the first time that they talk about the Bene Geserit, but oh wait a minute, the main one gets to be the hero's mom and a concubine.

spacebaby45678 wrote:
@snufkin

The shades are there and parallels are there and that is why I fully expect Renperor is coming, but one would have to really know Dune to pick that up in TFA... I know this is off subject but I found this just now while working on something else...


Of all the ideas George Lucas inherited from Frank Herbert, the subtle lesson was how to use science fiction to create myth. His lesser borrowings might include

@spacebaby45678

Great catch! And while I suspect that Renperor is what Snoke has sold him on doing (as eventually becoming his puppet), Hux has the same end game in mind most likely. That's gonna be nasty and fun. And if he gets some of that brainwashing knocked out of his head thanks to Rey's influence, that should be interesting to see how his goals change. From what I've read off that one Tumblr about the PT, it sounds like the PT was about the path to corruption and power under the delusion of doing it for the sake of protecting a loved one (who wanted neither). So wonder what that means for the opposite direction? Giving up the perks of power and fulfilment of ambitions that come with being affiliated with the FO and Snoke - and at great personal expense - for the sake of a loved one. Be interesting to see how it turns out.

snufkin wrote:@Armadeus - it's a totally valid opinion! I love all of the stuff you mentioned (world building, mythology...) but was deeply pissed as a 19 year old reading it for the first time that they talk about the Bene Geserit, but oh wait a minute, the main one gets to be the hero's mom and a concubine.

@snufkin

Jessica's way more interesting than Paul, if only because she seems more 'human.' I was kinda disappointed the novel didn't expound a bit more on her than it did (a book/comic/film/something needs to be written dealing with her Bene Gesserit training and the early years of her partnership with Leto).

Irina de France wrote:
@snufkin

One thing that I think is very interesting is that you brought up Leia and Han don't really talk about any kind of project in the future, or anything of the like together. So, of course, obviously, they're meant to be the traditional rom-com Princess and Scoundrel pairing, but it does brings some rather sad implications for Ben. The more the time goes, the more I realize that while I love Han and Leia to bits, and I ship them like there's no tomorrow, and there are no doubt amazing people, but were they cut to be parents? Unfortunately, no. That doesn't make them bad people, though. Not everyone is made to become a parent. But I can't help but think (as much as I hate to say it) that with Ben being an only child, and him being born at not so much the right moment (like a year after the battle of Endor), I can't help but think he was a bit of an accident...

I think Anidala had a lot, but A LOT of potential, but Ol' Georgie just really messed them up. I quite liked them in TCW. Their relationship still wasn't perfect, but it was never meant to be, in my opinion. I don't really understand why he didn't have Anakin and Padmé being the same age in TPM, because it would have still worked, and even, it would have worked so much better, but hey.

Think of it:

- 14-year-old slave boy Anakin is in the middle of his teenage crisis, feels a very deep revolt because of his slave status.
- His mother is concerned about him because all he likes is pod racing.
- He meets Padmé for the first time and he tries a (very bad) attempt to flirt with her with "Are you an angel?" and she just turns away while lifting her nose because he's just another stupid boy, ugh.
- Qui-Gon and Anakin's interactions would have been A+ to be honest.
- During the meal with the Skywalkers, Qui-Gon and Padmé, Anakin and Padmé basically bicker at each other until Padmé manages to say something that shuts Anakin up and Qui-Gon and Shmi just look at each other like...
- Anakin brags to Padmé he's going to save them by pod racing: "The Queen would not approve of trusting our lives in you." "Hmpf, well the Queen doesn't to know." "Well I don't approve." (FORESHADOWING HELLO)
- Insert a few scenes where you realize that they don't hate each other that much...
- And queue to the scene where Anakin gives Padmé the necklace and she keeps it "BUT IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE HIM!"
- And then Anakin's line in AOTC about: "I've given up arguing with you anyway" would suddenly make so much sense
- Yoda would have a good reason to say Anakin is too old to be trained, and the whole anger/fear stuff would make a lot of sense

Anyway, enough rambling, and about the picnic... I can just imagine at first Kylo being all prim and proper while eating (Leia raised him right at least on that part) while Rey has zero table manners. "You eat like a Hutt" and queue him getting Force pushed far away while Rey shrugs and starts eating in his plate. And when he comes back, he actually doesn't mind, because smol girlfriend needs to eat, poor thing...

@Irina de France

This is where I doubt that "I can be Renprener and we can rule the galaxy together" line is going to work on her, because her life goals up to that point have been "please can I not starve to death today?" Or at least I hope it gets upended and they have some time to unpack all of the abandonment and food/physical safety issues that she's had to cope with, in tandem with whatever the Hell happened to him. Nice contrast between the social classes that they exist in.

And yeah, poor guy didn't have much of a chance with those two as parents. They were bonded through trauma, but that's a very different set of circumstances to be in a relationship in, versus day to day and with the responsibility of a kid. No wonder they both went back to their respective worlds.

This thing about parenting is starting to return very often here or on tumblr.
I would like to say that no one goes to "be the perfect parent" school before fall in love and have babies, and when the first kid arrives it's something new for everyone. Nothing can ruin or guarantee the perfect parenting to anyone. Nothing. Temper included. Also because the perfect parent does not exist.
In my opinion the problem in Solo family was the very HUGE raw power of Ben. Parents have their own moments of tiredness and think "ugh, it was better when I haven't kids" can occur (parenting is HARD). Think, not say out loud, mind me. Now try to envision little Ben, listening to this stuff in his head. And then listening to other things too, like "this kid is too powerful he is too much like Vader" or "if only he doesn't have this damned force" and so on. His self esteem must be very low in a certain way from the very beginning.

About anidala, the love story had obviously a huge potential, but the execution, the "how" and the "why" (why Padme fell for Anakin? No really, why? I couldn't see the reason), was horrible imo, and this for me was too much. I don't know in english, but in my own language the lines were a nightmare, not just Anakin's. I never rewatched any of the PT movies.

snufkin wrote:

Irina de France wrote:
@snufkin

One thing that I think is very interesting is that you brought up Leia and Han don't really talk about any kind of project in the future, or anything of the like together. So, of course, obviously, they're meant to be the traditional rom-com Princess and Scoundrel pairing, but it does brings some rather sad implications for Ben. The more the time goes, the more I realize that while I love Han and Leia to bits, and I ship them like there's no tomorrow, and there are no doubt amazing people, but were they cut to be parents? Unfortunately, no. That doesn't make them bad people, though. Not everyone is made to become a parent. But I can't help but think (as much as I hate to say it) that with Ben being an only child, and him being born at not so much the right moment (like a year after the battle of Endor), I can't help but think he was a bit of an accident...

I think Anidala had a lot, but A LOT of potential, but Ol' Georgie just really messed them up. I quite liked them in TCW. Their relationship still wasn't perfect, but it was never meant to be, in my opinion. I don't really understand why he didn't have Anakin and Padmé being the same age in TPM, because it would have still worked, and even, it would have worked so much better, but hey.

Think of it:

- 14-year-old slave boy Anakin is in the middle of his teenage crisis, feels a very deep revolt because of his slave status.
- His mother is concerned about him because all he likes is pod racing.
- He meets Padmé for the first time and he tries a (very bad) attempt to flirt with her with "Are you an angel?" and she just turns away while lifting her nose because he's just another stupid boy, ugh.
- Qui-Gon and Anakin's interactions would have been A+ to be honest.
- During the meal with the Skywalkers, Qui-Gon and Padmé, Anakin and Padmé basically bicker at each other until Padmé manages to say something that shuts Anakin up and Qui-Gon and Shmi just look at each other like...
- Anakin brags to Padmé he's going to save them by pod racing: "The Queen would not approve of trusting our lives in you." "Hmpf, well the Queen doesn't to know." "Well I don't approve." (FORESHADOWING HELLO)
- Insert a few scenes where you realize that they don't hate each other that much...
- And queue to the scene where Anakin gives Padmé the necklace and she keeps it "BUT IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE HIM!"
- And then Anakin's line in AOTC about: "I've given up arguing with you anyway" would suddenly make so much sense
- Yoda would have a good reason to say Anakin is too old to be trained, and the whole anger/fear stuff would make a lot of sense

Anyway, enough rambling, and about the picnic... I can just imagine at first Kylo being all prim and proper while eating (Leia raised him right at least on that part) while Rey has zero table manners. "You eat like a Hutt" and queue him getting Force pushed far away while Rey shrugs and starts eating in his plate. And when he comes back, he actually doesn't mind, because smol girlfriend needs to eat, poor thing...

@Irina de France

This is where I doubt that "I can be Renprener and we can rule the galaxy together" line is going to work on her, because her life goals up to that point have been "please can I not starve to death today?" Or at least I hope it gets upended and they have some time to unpack all of the abandonment and food/physical safety issues that she's had to cope with, in tandem with whatever the Hell happened to him. Nice contrast between the social classes that they exist in.

And yeah, poor guy didn't have much of a chance with those two as parents. They were bonded through trauma, but that's a very different set of circumstances to be in a relationship in, versus day to day and with the responsibility of a kid. No wonder they both went back to their respective worlds.

@snufkin

^ he clearly asked the wrong two people, versus Leia who could actually pull that off. Some version of that pitch will probably be made to Rey, aka the only other person in the bunch who could pull it off. However it's equally doubtful that she'd be interested in it, beyond "can I not be broke and starving all the time?"

snufkin wrote:^ he clearly asked the wrong two people, versus Leia who could actually pull that off. Some version of that pitch will probably be made to Rey, aka the only other person in the bunch who could pull it off. However it's equally doubtful that she'd be interested in it, beyond "can I not be broke and starving all the time?"

@snufkin

Well, on one side, her motivations are going to change in the next movies for sure. She doesn't have to fight in the desert to survive anymore. Her family *might* play something in this, though. Just saying.

Irina de France wrote:

snufkin wrote:^ he clearly asked the wrong two people, versus Leia who could actually pull that off. Some version of that pitch will probably be made to Rey, aka the only other person in the bunch who could pull it off. However it's equally doubtful that she'd be interested in it, beyond "can I not be broke and starving all the time?"

@snufkin

Well, on one side, her motivations are going to change in the next movies for sure. She doesn't have to fight in the desert to survive anymore. Her family *might* play something in this, though. Just saying.

@Irina de France

Irina de France wrote:

snufkin wrote:^ he clearly asked the wrong two people, versus Leia who could actually pull that off. Some version of that pitch will probably be made to Rey, aka the only other person in the bunch who could pull it off. However it's equally doubtful that she'd be interested in it, beyond "can I not be broke and starving all the time?"

@snufkin

Well, on one side, her motivations are going to change in the next movies for sure. She doesn't have to fight in the desert to survive anymore. Her family *might* play something in this, though. Just saying.

@Irina de France

Oh for sure. Just that he's got some very high class self actualization Oprah style be the best Darksider you can be type problems versus Rey being somebody who's a foster kid and barely one step above being homeless.  Very different backgrounds and motivations. And trying to figure out who her family was/is and how she ended up an orphan is still a much more humble (though essential and likely one of the things that will connect them) need to fulfill, versus unlimited power and having a grand destiny to fulfill.

Irina de France wrote:

snufkin wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Interesting site!

What about the love story?

Han and Leia’s relationship was built up on flirty bickering and basic comedy, there was not much of a story about it. They don’t have a single scene over all three films, in which they just discuss their lives, their wishes and hopes, their fears and that in an honest and personally intimate way. Therefore, naturally, we got to see a “classic” romance with a macho guy getting the initially resistant girl to melt ultimately. They are old-fashioned - even antiquated - in that regard, but perhaps fitting the mood of the traditional Star Wars audience. With Anakin and Padmé, however, we got a relationship that was not only much deeper in itself and more meaningful, but one that was also challenging “gender roles” while still having been approached from a very traditional point of view  - but only this time in its execution and style. It really wasn’t as much about them falling in love as it was a story about whether they should give in to their emotions and allow their love to blossom, despite the potential consequences, or not...

Have their wishes and dreams come true? Partially yes, but not enduringly. Anakin is a lot more balanced in the first third of Revenge Of The Sith because Padmé is stabilizing him, Padmé is accepting him with all of his imperfections, which was wonderfully symbolized by having her take his metal hand at the end of Attack Of The Clones. She makes him a better person. She gives him comfort. It’s only when dreams of her death start to occur that Anakin switches back to being an unstable, emotionally disoriented and dangerously powerful Jedi Knight.

@snufkin

This tumbler is really good, especially their passion for GL's talents & vision and their obvious love for the PT. Hopefully, with Reylo we get a modern hybrid of Hanleia & Anidala but I also see a lot of Obikin, the other "love story" in Star Wars.

@spacebaby45678

I enjoyed the breakdown of the cinematography and themes. Per your Bene Geserit user icon, I did just recently try watching them and my big problem is that George Lucas just can't compete with Frank Herbert. The visuals are beautiful but in terms of space politics and insane world building, nothing is going to ever compete with the story that was in my head the first time I read [i]Dune

Irina de France wrote:I posted the link in the meta thread, but I might as well repost it here since it is relevant to the topic:

http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/145177289657/anidala-and-reylo-mustafar-vs-interrogation-scene

I could copy and paste, but there are quite a few pics and I'm a bit too lazy to insert them all XD

@Irina de France

Great summary! Although we can all agree if there was the option for a picnic scene, Rey would be there front loading on anything she could eat and shoving breadsticks into her tool bag for later.

@snufkin

One thing that I think is very interesting is that you brought up Leia and Han don't really talk about any kind of project in the future, or anything of the like together. So, of course, obviously, they're meant to be the traditional rom-com Princess and Scoundrel pairing, but it does brings some rather sad implications for Ben. The more the time goes, the more I realize that while I love Han and Leia to bits, and I ship them like there's no tomorrow, and there are no doubt amazing people, but were they cut to be parents? Unfortunately, no. That doesn't make them bad people, though. Not everyone is made to become a parent. But I can't help but think (as much as I hate to say it) that with Ben being an only child, and him being born at not so much the right moment (like a year after the battle of Endor), I can't help but think he was a bit of an accident...

I think Anidala had a lot, but A LOT of potential, but Ol' Georgie just really messed them up. I quite liked them in TCW. Their relationship still wasn't perfect, but it was never meant to be, in my opinion. I don't really understand why he didn't have Anakin and Padmé being the same age in TPM, because it would have still worked, and even, it would have worked so much better, but hey.

Think of it:

- 14-year-old slave boy Anakin is in the middle of his teenage crisis, feels a very deep revolt because of his slave status.
- His mother is concerned about him because all he likes is pod racing.
- He meets Padmé for the first time and he tries a (very bad) attempt to flirt with her with "Are you an angel?" and she just turns away while lifting her nose because he's just another stupid boy, ugh.
- Qui-Gon and Anakin's interactions would have been A+ to be honest.
- During the meal with the Skywalkers, Qui-Gon and Padmé, Anakin and Padmé basically bicker at each other until Padmé manages to say something that shuts Anakin up and Qui-Gon and Shmi just look at each other like...
- Anakin brags to Padmé he's going to save them by pod racing: "The Queen would not approve of trusting our lives in you." "Hmpf, well the Queen doesn't to know." "Well I don't approve." (FORESHADOWING HELLO)
- Insert a few scenes where you realize that they don't hate each other that much...
- And queue to the scene where Anakin gives Padmé the necklace and she keeps it "BUT IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE HIM!"
- And then Anakin's line in AOTC about: "I've given up arguing with you anyway" would suddenly make so much sense
- Yoda would have a good reason to say Anakin is too old to be trained, and the whole anger/fear stuff would make a lot of sense

Anyway, enough rambling, and about the picnic... I can just imagine at first Kylo being all prim and proper while eating (Leia raised him right at least on that part) while Rey has zero table manners. "You eat like a Hutt" and queue him getting Force pushed far away while Rey shrugs and starts eating in his plate. And when he comes back, he actually doesn't mind, because smol girlfriend needs to eat, poor thing...

@Irina de France

I agree.Not every couple is going to have the same dynamics as Han/Leia and he did make some good points about them being the typical comedy couple who had no real deep conversations and were mostly bickering because it's true.We saw the UST between them in ANH and by ESB they were already in love.The veiwers didn't get to see them fall in love over the course of three movies becasue it was more about Leia admitting she was in love with Han than wathcing them fall in love.
I could also see where he was coming from about GL wanting to depict Anidala havinga deeper relationship where we watch them fall in love and struggle with what to do with these feelings.The problem is that you just couldn't feel that connection that was suppose to b ethere between them that makes you see how they're falling in love eventhough they don't want to admit .It also didn't help that they delteted scenes that could have helped the GA udnerstand better the Anidala relationship.
When you think about it Anidala and Han/Leia have some things in common:both were a FS-NS pairing,both had different ideals/family backgrounds and personalities which led to them fighting and both were probably better off not having any kids.
Maybe the reason some of the GA have problem seieng a Reylo romance is because the only romances they have as examples in the movies are Han/Leia and Anidala with the former being the typical rom-com and the latter being a tragic romance that ended up executed so horribly the audince prefers to forget about it.

After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader. Found some footage from ROS on youtube. It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me. I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story. I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.

Birdwoman wrote:After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader. Found some footage from ROS on youtube. It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me. I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story. I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.

@Birdwoman

The PT seems like it was very much a personal passion project for GL, but would've done better with different writers. And from what I've read, maybe it works out that while he had some valid reasons for turning on his family and joining their enemy, part of it had to do with hubris and gaining power. The totally selfish reasons it sounds like were the motivation in the PT. So maybe how it works out is that he gives all of that up at great personal cost because his relationship with her becomes more important. ANd not even that it's b/c they're in a relationship or that it'll win her over, but that it'll hurt her directly (I think Snoke's been after her since childhood too) and that becomes more of his mission than Renprener or whatever.

Birdwoman wrote:After TFA came out, I was showing my 9 year old son how Anakin became Darth Vader. Found some footage from ROS on youtube. It was right after he force choked Padme and Obi wan was walking down the plank that it hit me. I think they are going to do a reverse Anakin/Padme with Kylo and Rey but they are both force sensitive and it will be a better story. I can't even tell you why or what made me think that at that time.
Now that we own the prequels, that love story had potential with a different writer....not sure how I feel about GL as a director either.

@Birdwoman

Yeah,like you have to wonder what would have happened if Anakin had fallen in love with a FS like him.Would he still have fallen?It would have been interesting to explore that storyline espeically since the love story between a FS Anakin and a FS female Jedi would have been the thing that the PT would have centered around that.How cool would it have been? Unfortunately GL dropped the ball on that one so Reylo in a sense could be what the PT's main romance could have been if it was handled by a better writer/director.