The Last Jedi Trailer(s)

IoJovi wrote:I got maybe four hours total of sleep last night because I was so wound up after the trailer aired I couldn't stop flipping my sith.  I'm so happy right now I can't stand it.  I am having my bathroom redone today with a new shower door and work is crazy busy.  I wish I had the time to focus on this the way I had last night but it's just crazy today and I've gotten little sleep.  Still, the sleep doesn't seem to affect me right now as I am as wound up today as I was right after the trailer aired.


AND I GOT MY TICKETS FOR THE FAN EVENT!!!! 

@IoJovi

Yaaaaas! Is your fan event similar (trading cards, etc)?
I got like 5 hours sleep

Guys, the reactions, analysis and breakdowns are pure gold!

1. It proves that Rey is a Skywalker cause she wields the legacy saber. Reywalked confirmed! Oh, and so many people insisting Rey is related.

2. It's about how Kylo betrays her and take sher to Snoke.

3. The last scene is misdirection. Creativity brownie points for all the alternate explanations for what is going on in Kylo's shot.

4. The last part is Rey turning dark.

5. They are obviously hiding the surprising true plot: Kylo turns eeeevil, and Rey is his cousin.

6. Kylo looks like Vader.

I wish I had time to do a compilation.

IoJovi wrote:I got maybe four hours total of sleep last night because I was so wound up after the trailer aired I couldn't stop flipping my sith.  I'm so happy right now I can't stand it.  I am having my bathroom redone today with a new shower door and work is crazy busy.  I wish I had the time to focus on this the way I had last night but it's just crazy today and I've gotten little sleep.  Still, the sleep doesn't seem to affect me right now as I am as wound up today as I was right after the trailer aired.


AND I GOT MY TICKETS FOR THE FAN EVENT!!!! 

@IoJovi



I got about five hours and am hoping to squeeze in a nap later today.

Also, I've watched the trailer at least twenty times... which is entirely unprecedented for me.

AceofWands wrote:Guys, the reactions, analysis and breakdowns are pure gold!

1. It proves that Rey is a Skywalker cause she wields the legacy saber. Reywalked confirmed! Oh, and so many people insisting Rey is related.

2. It's about how Kylo betrays her and take sher to Snoke.

3. The last scene is misdirection. Creativity brownie points for all the alternate explanations for what is going on in Kylo's shot.

4. The last part is Rey turning dark.

5. They are obviously hiding the surprising true plot: Kylo turns eeeevil, and Rey is his cousin.

6. Kylo looks like Vader.

I wish I had time to do a compilation.

@AceofWands

That’s not Kylo wearing the helmet, it’s Rey, because she will become Snoke‘s new apprentice.

One of my highlights.

So when we see Rey being tortured by Snoke...

What if it's actually Kylo being tortured, and Rey is experiencing it through their connection?

Then, she "falls" out of the Force vision completely traumatized like this:



Snoke is holding her up in the air while torturing her, and when the vision stops, she literally falls to the ground.

Also, the whole "fulfill your destiny" line from Snoke seems like something he'd say to Kylo, who thinks he HAS to follow Vader's path.

WhatGirl wrote:So when we see Rey being tortured by Snoke...

What if it's actually Kylo being tortured, and Rey is experiencing it through their connection?

Then, she "falls" out of the Force vision completely traumatized like this:



Snoke is holding her up in the air while torturing her, and when the vision stops, she literally falls to the ground.

Also, the whole "fulfill your destiny" line from Snoke seems like something he'd say to Kylo, who thinks he HAS to follow Vader's path.

@WhatGirl

OH MY LORD!

What a fabulous theory! I love this so much!!! I can't tell if she's wearing the 3-bun hairstyle there or not.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

shii405 wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@vaderito Yep! I agree that it is a different scene. But I truly think it doesn't matter at the end because the way they edited it send a very clear message. Now, there can't be no ambiguity about the fact that Kylo and Rey are important to one another even if very few information are given about their interactions. There couldn't be a more powerful ending for the trailer than the one they gave us.

Another thing that I find really interesting is how much Kylo's shadow is big in this trailer. The more I see the trailer, the more I get the feeling that actually eveything turns around him. Even when he ain't there, he is actually constantly there, even where we don't expect him to be:
1) The first part of the trailer focuseson Kylo's trajectory and his relationship with Snoke
2) The second part focuses on Rey's trajectory but Rey's awakening powers offer a glimpse of Ben's relationship with his uncle
3) The third part focuses on Kylo's psyche and his relationship with his mother as he seems to let go of his past by destroying the Resistance fleet
4) The fourth part focuses on the battle between the Resistance and the FO
5) The fifth part shows all people who are meant to  play a role in Kylo's trajectory:
- The masters: Luke (This is not going to go the way you think!) vs. Snoke (Now, fulfill your destiny)
- The attachments: Leia & Rey
6) The trailer ends on his relationship with Rey: "I need someone who can show me my place in all of this!"

So basically, the trailer is giving away:
1) How Snoke sees Kylo ==> a raw, untamed, very special power
2) How Luke sees him    ==> a raw strenght that scares him
3) How Kylo sees himself ==> someone who shall let go of his past to become what he is meant to be (which implies to destroy his attachment to his mother)
4) How Rey could see him ==> someone who could show her where her place is
5) The dilemma he is facing ==> "Now fulfill your destiny!" (by killing or letting kill the girl)
The transition between the two last parts is really interesting because the viewer is suspended to what will happen to Rey as Snoke is saying "Now fulfill your destiny". And then, the trailer ends with Kylo offering his hand to her as if his choice was made.

More important, the trailer opens and ends with a shot of Kylo:
1) This is how it begins:

Kylo stands in front of a big hangar, which IMO conveys some rumination moment that reminds me of Anakin and Padme's ruminations scene. So it conveys inner conflict/ambiguity.
2) This is how it ends:

The choice is made. After hearing during the whole trailer how much Kylo is meant to be a raw beast, how much he is ready to let go of his attachments, the viewer is finally shown Kylo offering his hand with sad puppy eyes to the girl who was shown being tortured by Snoke and asking for someone to fill an important part in her life just a few seconds before.

So the trailer shows how much Kylo is meant to be an Anakin in reverse.

@reylo1992

OMG, your analysis is amazing! So do we agree that BEN SOLO is actually the MAIN CHARACTER (not sure, if I should call him the "hero", "anti-hero"?) of THIS SEQUEL TRILOGY, and not Rey? Adam Driver IS the first billed after the original cast, afterall, right? Maybe that is the shocking revelation for TLJ, lol.

@shii405

You know, in a different context, I would find the "guy you thought was a faceless villain... is in fact the main character!!" a brilliant twist, if done well. But in this case, they've done far too much to make far too many people invested in Rey as the main character for such a switcheroo to be anything but poor taste.

So I do think Rey will absolutely remain the main protagonist. However, as I've said before, it could be that Rey is the main protagonist but the story is largely about Kylo, in which case trying to determine which one of them is more "important" will be arguing about semantics.

I know I've said this a thousand times before, but: you can say "X is the main protagonist!" till the cows come home, but if you give all the interesting meat of the story to Y, then the story is essentially about Y.

@Darth Dingbat

I don't think either that Kylo would become the main character at Rey's place. I rather think that the specificity of the sequel trilogy is that we have two equally important characters: Rey as the main character and Kylo as the character who drives the story.

To me, it was always clear that Kylo's importance in the whole story would be emphasized in TLJ. I wouldn't call him main protagonist but he is - if we are right - the only remaining Skywalker heir, holding the whole legacy of his family on his shoulders .

The trailer shows very well how he and  Rey are mirroring and completing. If this wasn't that clear in TFA, it was made very clear in both TLJ trailer. I assume that Snoke lines are delivered to Kylo but they can also be delivered to Rey as well. So as the main protagonist, Rey must find out how she completes the puzzle since the trailer made it clear that both Kylo and her hold the same raw and untamed power.

So we have two stories that are meant to meet at some point and complete each other :
1) We have a heir trying to hold his place in a galaxy where his family has played a major role and in the franchise
2) We have an unidentified female character trying to find a place and a role to fulfill in this galaxy, which is exactly the meaning of the line "I need someone to help me find my place in all of this"
So I think that Rey will remain the main protagonist but her own trajectory will be driven by the fate of the Skywalker family and especially the (back)story of the Skywalker heir. So the question is: what is the mystery behind her background that makes her an important piece of the entire puzzle in the franchise ?  

My feeling is that the answer of Rey's parentage and her importance to the galaxy has to do with something very ancient. There are thousand of ways to justify that the choice of a non-Skywalker as the main lead without underwhelming the importance of the Skywalker family. In the last drama that I watched, there were several interesting things in this regard :
- The main villain of the drama is a vampire who has forced for centuries the kings from generation to generation to obey him and rule the kingdom as he wants.
- The main character character is a human who was turned into a nice vampire trying to find a way to defeat the villain
- The female lead is a girl with a mysterious past
- The second male lead is the Crown Prince
- The main character spends half of the drama trying to find the memoir of a late king who had found out 100 ago a way to get rid of the villain
- The first clue is that the key to get rid of the vampire is actually a simple human
- Then the memoir reveals that three things are needed to defeat the main villain, among them what is called the "mother's relation".
- The biggest clue of the enigma is the mother's relation through a list of persons written in the memoir. We later find out that the names of the persons in the memoir are part of the same lineage and that this lineage is a necessary key of the secret plan to defeat the vampire.
- And let's come to the point: a big part of the female lead's journey is to find out about her past. It appears that she was raised as a boy for a very good reason, that her name was changed for a very good reason too, that she had no memory of her real parents until it slowly comes back and that her importance in the story is solved by unlocking a mystery that happened more than 200 years ago.

Although that ain't the best drama I've seen and that there is no connection with SW, the backstory of the female lead made me think about Rey's backstory. Both have no memory of their past, both had their real family killed for some purpose, both were "hidden" for some mysterious reason. In the case of the female lead in this drama, she is important for the fate of the kingdom because she holds within an ability that passes from generation to generation through the mother's relation. However, she ain't the only part of the puzzle: she is not the one who can ultimately get rid of the vampire but she hold an important key to allow his defeat. Another interesting thing is that her parents and grand-parents ain't important in that story. What is important is that her lineage is related to an age-old mystery.  

So this leads me to assume that Kylo as the only Skywalker heir of the franchise may be the Chosen One supposed to fulfill the prophecy. After all, the idea of the Chosen One is canon: it is a key concept introduced in Episode I that will be back in Episode 8 since Luke thought Ben was the Chosen One and Snoke seems to have thought the same in some way. However, Rey's lineage could hold an important key that would justify to make her the main protagonist of the ST. She could hold a missing part of the prophecy that would enable her to complete and not compete the role of the Skywalker family. Maybe the Skywalker lineage and her lineage have something very ancient in common that require to work together in order to fulfill this prophecy and achieve a balance.

Ok,now that I had a bit more sleep my mind is functioning better,lol but I was thinking a while ago a couple of drawings were posted that had Rey finding Luke and the other was Kylo who looked very distracted and emotional and there were speculations that maybe Leia was captured and he was forced to interrogate her or it was Rey again but what if that drawing is from when he stops Snoke from torturing Rey?Because she looks utterly helpless and someone would defiantly have to help her get away from him.
I also have to say TLJ really looks like it will be nothing like ESB we can speculate about certain scenes being misleading or not but the trailer really showed that TLJ is going to be its own unique movie and not a rehash of ESB like we already knew so kudos to the marketing for conveying that.

ReyofLightSide wrote:

IoJovi wrote:I got maybe four hours total of sleep last night because I was so wound up after the trailer aired I couldn't stop flipping my sith.  I'm so happy right now I can't stand it.  I am having my bathroom redone today with a new shower door and work is crazy busy.  I wish I had the time to focus on this the way I had last night but it's just crazy today and I've gotten little sleep.  Still, the sleep doesn't seem to affect me right now as I am as wound up today as I was right after the trailer aired.


AND I GOT MY TICKETS FOR THE FAN EVENT!!!! 

@IoJovi

Yaaaaas! Is your fan event similar (trading cards, etc)?
I got like 5 hours sleep

@ReyofLightSide

As far as I know yeah - that's what was listed on the website!

DarthRen wrote:

Maria26 wrote:Man, that trailer was full of misdirections.

First of all, Snoke ain't talking about Kylo. I'm 99,9 % sure that he is talking about Rey and it might even be the scene where we see him "torturing" her. They are going to have a pretty interesting and heavy exchange.

The last two frames of Rey and Kylo aren't the same scene. For all we know, the first one is Rey talking to Luke. The second one might not even be Kylo holding up is hand for Rey to take it. He could want the lightsaber or for them to give him something.

Also, I've seen people getting mad and thinking that Kylo is about to kill Leia. Yeah....that's not gonna happen.

And what the hell was that on his scar?

@Maria26

I agree to certain extent but still they highlight Kylo and Rey relationship is important and might not remain antagonistic. Of coure, these two seems to be two different scenes but still there are only two people Kylo would give this look Leia and Rey. Certainly not to Luke asking for something. Kylo and Leia scene is a misdirection, Snoke talks to Rey and not Kylo most likely.

Their scenes at the end goes back to him asking to be her teacher, Luke refusing and having reservations about it, Snoke torturing her. Might in this movie but in the next I can see Kylo showing her powers of the Force. I think he might more about than than it might seems.

I just have bad vibes that at the end of all of this trilogy, Kylo dies and that would suck.

@DarthRen

He dies, and Ben Solo lives.

I'm so amused by people who think the last scene means Rey will be tempted by the dark side. Like STFU. They just DONT get it. She is trying to get a sense of herself on neutral terms and the only person who can do that is Kylo. Nothing about dark or light side, it's just about BEING.

BenRey wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Maria26 wrote:Man, that trailer was full of misdirections.

First of all, Snoke ain't talking about Kylo. I'm 99,9 % sure that he is talking about Rey and it might even be the scene where we see him "torturing" her. They are going to have a pretty interesting and heavy exchange.

The last two frames of Rey and Kylo aren't the same scene. For all we know, the first one is Rey talking to Luke. The second one might not even be Kylo holding up is hand for Rey to take it. He could want the lightsaber or for them to give him something.

Also, I've seen people getting mad and thinking that Kylo is about to kill Leia. Yeah....that's not gonna happen.

And what the hell was that on his scar?

@Maria26

I agree to certain extent but still they highlight Kylo and Rey relationship is important and might not remain antagonistic. Of coure, these two seems to be two different scenes but still there are only two people Kylo would give this look Leia and Rey. Certainly not to Luke asking for something. Kylo and Leia scene is a misdirection, Snoke talks to Rey and not Kylo most likely.

Their scenes at the end goes back to him asking to be her teacher, Luke refusing and having reservations about it, Snoke torturing her. Might in this movie but in the next I can see Kylo showing her powers of the Force. I think he might more about than than it might seems.

I just have bad vibes that at the end of all of this trilogy, Kylo dies and that would suck.

@DarthRen

He dies, and Ben Solo lives.

@BenRey

Let's hope so.

rey09 wrote:I'm so amused by people who think the last scene means Rey will be tempted by the dark side. Like STFU. They just DONT get it. She is trying to get a sense of herself on neutral terms and the only person who can do that is Kylo. Nothing about dark or light side, it's just about BEING.

@rey09

Plus he looks anything but evil. My 9 year-old saw it and said: "oh, so he turns good?"

The way the trailer puts it, it's about mutual understanding, becoming allies, etc. And he is not powerful, but open and vulnerable.

Seduction by the dark side would have looked very different. Of course, these people have no clue what seduction looks like.

AceofWands wrote:Guys, the reactions, analysis and breakdowns are pure gold!

1. It proves that Rey is a Skywalker cause she wields the legacy saber. Reywalked confirmed! Oh, and so many people insisting Rey is related.

2. It's about how Kylo betrays her and take sher to Snoke.

3. The last scene is misdirection. Creativity brownie points for all the alternate explanations for what is going on in Kylo's shot.

4. The last part is Rey turning dark.

5. They are obviously hiding the surprising true plot: Kylo turns eeeevil, and Rey is his cousin.

6. Kylo looks like Vader.

I wish I had time to do a compilation.

@AceofWands

It's clearly the ESB rehash: Join me, and we'll rule the Galaxy together as cousins!

rey09 wrote:I'm so amused by people who think the last scene means Rey will be tempted by the dark side. Like STFU. They just DONT get it. She is trying to get a sense of herself on neutral terms and the only person who can do that is Kylo. Nothing about dark or light side, it's just about BEING.

@rey09

Exactly if there's a misdirection at all it's people believing that Rey's turning dark and she accepts Kylo to be her teacher.I mean if you think about it nothing in the trailer actually indicates Reylo(well it does for us since we've been analyzing his for two years no but it won't be that way for the GA) and what it shows is Kylo seemingly preparing to murder his mother and Luke being afraid of Rey's enormous powers.
It's really interesting now to go back to the BTS reel and look at  the Kylo scenes again with the  trailer in mind since it clearly shows that at the begging of the movie Kylo's scar isn't fully healed yet but in the scenes that he does appear in in BTS clip it looked like he wasn't wearing the bacta in any lf them,

BenRey wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Maria26 wrote:Man, that trailer was full of misdirections.

First of all, Snoke ain't talking about Kylo. I'm 99,9 % sure that he is talking about Rey and it might even be the scene where we see him "torturing" her. They are going to have a pretty interesting and heavy exchange.

The last two frames of Rey and Kylo aren't the same scene. For all we know, the first one is Rey talking to Luke. The second one might not even be Kylo holding up is hand for Rey to take it. He could want the lightsaber or for them to give him something.

Also, I've seen people getting mad and thinking that Kylo is about to kill Leia. Yeah....that's not gonna happen.

And what the hell was that on his scar?

@Maria26

I agree to certain extent but still they highlight Kylo and Rey relationship is important and might not remain antagonistic. Of coure, these two seems to be two different scenes but still there are only two people Kylo would give this look Leia and Rey. Certainly not to Luke asking for something. Kylo and Leia scene is a misdirection, Snoke talks to Rey and not Kylo most likely.

Their scenes at the end goes back to him asking to be her teacher, Luke refusing and having reservations about it, Snoke torturing her. Might in this movie but in the next I can see Kylo showing her powers of the Force. I think he might more about than than it might seems.

I just have bad vibes that at the end of all of this trilogy, Kylo dies and that would suck.

@DarthRen

He dies, and Ben Solo lives.

@BenRey

My headcanon: Kylo dies by the end of TLJ...but will be reborn by the end of Episode 9. IMO best ending ever to expect from TLJ.

After Han's death, there couldn't be more shocking and unexpected for the GA than the "death" of the only Skywalker heir.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

AceofWands wrote:Guys, the reactions, analysis and breakdowns are pure gold!

1. It proves that Rey is a Skywalker cause she wields the legacy saber. Reywalked confirmed! Oh, and so many people insisting Rey is related.

2. It's about how Kylo betrays her and take sher to Snoke.

3. The last scene is misdirection. Creativity brownie points for all the alternate explanations for what is going on in Kylo's shot.

4. The last part is Rey turning dark.

5. They are obviously hiding the surprising true plot: Kylo turns eeeevil, and Rey is his cousin.

6. Kylo looks like Vader.

I wish I had time to do a compilation.

@AceofWands

It's clearly the ESB rehash: Join me, and we'll rule the Galaxy together as cousins!

@Darth_Awakened

Speaking of a rehash. Do we think that Rey being brought to Snoke would be to much of a rehash of ROTJ? Especially if Kylo intervenes and saves her? This is kind of why I'm suddenly liking @WhatGirl's  theory regarding Rey feeling Kylo being tortured by Snoke through their connection.

I see girls on Facebook saying that Kylo holding out his hand to Rey "like Aladdin" is creepy as hell and she shouldn't trust him

Tex wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

AceofWands wrote:Guys, the reactions, analysis and breakdowns are pure gold!

1. It proves that Rey is a Skywalker cause she wields the legacy saber. Reywalked confirmed! Oh, and so many people insisting Rey is related.

2. It's about how Kylo betrays her and take sher to Snoke.

3. The last scene is misdirection. Creativity brownie points for all the alternate explanations for what is going on in Kylo's shot.

4. The last part is Rey turning dark.

5. They are obviously hiding the surprising true plot: Kylo turns eeeevil, and Rey is his cousin.

6. Kylo looks like Vader.

I wish I had time to do a compilation.

@AceofWands

It's clearly the ESB rehash: Join me, and we'll rule the Galaxy together as cousins!

@Darth_Awakened

Speaking of a rehash. Do we think that Rey being brought to Snoke would be to much of a rehash of ROTJ? Especially if Kylo intervenes and saves her? This is kind of why I'm suddenly liking @WhatGirl's  theory regarding Rey feeling Kylo being tortured by Snoke through their connection.

@Tex

Yeah, I agree, but it would also depend on how Rey ends with Snoke. The Force vision theory is also possible at this point.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I see girls on Facebook saying that Kylo holding out his hand to Rey "like Aladdin" is creepy as hell and she shouldn't trust him

@Cowgirlsamurai

I can't even with people today. It's CREEPY???? They acknowledge that there's a romantic, gentlemanly element to the gesture when referring to Aladdin, but still refuse to see the obvious. I give up on them.

Tex wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I see girls on Facebook saying that Kylo holding out his hand to Rey "like Aladdin" is creepy as hell and she shouldn't trust him

@Cowgirlsamurai

I can't even with people today. It's CREEPY???? They acknowledge that there's a romantic, gentlemanly element to the gesture when referring to Aladdin, but still refuse to see the obvious. I give up on them.

@Tex

Some people just love to suck the nice out of everything. They hate Kylo so much that they're doing everything in their power to find something/anything he does to hate. It's sad!

AceofWands wrote:

rey09 wrote:I'm so amused by people who think the last scene means Rey will be tempted by the dark side. Like STFU. They just DONT get it. She is trying to get a sense of herself on neutral terms and the only person who can do that is Kylo. Nothing about dark or light side, it's just about BEING.

@rey09

Plus he looks anything but evil. My 9 year-old saw it and said: "oh, so he turns good?"

The way the trailer puts it, it's about mutual understanding, becoming allies, etc. And he is not powerful, but open and vulnerable.

Seduction by the dark side would have looked very different. Of course, these people have no clue what seduction looks like.

@AceofWands

All of this! Honestly, one of biggest surprises I had coming into this fandom, was the almost total inability on the part of a significant portion of the devoted fan base to interpret facial expressions and emotions beyond the "hit you over the head" Nooooooooooooos!

Tex wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I see girls on Facebook saying that Kylo holding out his hand to Rey "like Aladdin" is creepy as hell and she shouldn't trust him

@Cowgirlsamurai

I can't even with people today. It's CREEPY???? They acknowledge that there's a romantic, gentlemanly element to the gesture when referring to Aladdin, but still refuse to see the obvious. I give up on them.

@Tex

Yea, they can only think of him as the villain and say he's psycho. My reaction was the exact opposite. That moment melted me, lol.
But people aren't thinking this means Kylo could switch sides. They think it's Kylo tricking Rey.

Tex wrote:Speaking of a rehash. Do we think that Rey being brought to Snoke would be to much of a rehash of ROTJ? Especially if Kylo intervenes and saves her? This is kind of why I'm suddenly liking @WhatGirl's  theory regarding Rey feeling Kylo being tortured by Snoke through their connection.

@Tex

What we know for sure is that Kylo goes before Snoke; we don't see what happens during this meeting, but afterward, he's clearly shaken and upset, and he destroys his helmet. It seems to be a reaction to whatever Snoke did or said to him, although we're not shown what it was.

Later in the trailer, we see Rey in Snoke's throne room, being tortured and told to fulfill her destiny. This is so abrupt and out of nowhere, and she seems completely unprepared for the confrontation. It really makes me believe it's a Force vision and not really her.

Also, it's Kylo who has disappointed Snoke and is possibly straying from his dark path. He is the one who is most likely going to be punished severely, IMO. Snoke using the Force to torture him while reminding him that he needs to fulfill his destiny makes the most sense to me.

Then there's the opening shot of the teaser trailer of course, that shows Rey falling to the ground, gasping and looking like she's just experienced something truly terrible. Since she's still on Ahch-To, I assume that she was upset by a vision, possibly linked to Kylo.

Due to their "strange connection", I think Kylo and Rey will be sharing a few visions before they meet again in person. Perhaps the way it'll work is that they'll be able to see/feel what the other is going through.

@reylo1992 - welcome back! your analysis of scenes is always one of the best parts.

@fuhry - thank you. What can I say? On an average day, I'm a feminist killjoy. Let alone on one where the trailer drops after almost 2 years of a dude-centric fan community snarking, hassling, and in general trying to shut out the discussion from predominantly female fans who saw a contender for a central theme/relationship in the trilogy. We're not talking about just the typical mouth-breathers who hate FoD for putting girls in their Star Wars, but dudes who consider themselves to be allies. Unless it starts to get into territory where the discussion centers around things they don't like or which don't center the male viewer and their interests. Which their response is to be super condescending, but to couch it in "well, actually" about how it's misdirection, doesn't mean they're going to have any type of relationship or that he doesn't go super bad et cetera.

Funny how the same fanbase who 2 years ago was going on about Rey Skywalker not having anything to do with her awful cousin are now making fun of anybody who believes in Reywalker. Also LOLs at how now it's become "well she can have something to do with him, but she can't date him and his redemption is on him. Though I still think he's totes going to die for killing Cool Dad Han Solo." Or how suddenly it's all about how people think her parents had some affiliation with the FO/DS and that they were killed trying to flee the FO and protect her from Snoke. We don't agree on everything here, but at least the discussions have been far more open-minded, thoughtful, and perceptive than the fandom hivemind. And yet somehow we're the ones who get snarked on for being bad fans because supposedly wanting to discuss these things is see as tacky, girly, embarrassing, et cetera.