Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

Rey's love interest is of no consequence, beware of Kylo love interest cause he's the last of the Skywalker line. if they shoe-horn an LI it would be for him. The dreaded Skymom!

DarthRen wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

It's Kylo or nobody since Rey could be a dedicated Jedi like Luke. Poe option is imo not viable option. It would be like romance for the sake of romance.

@DarthRen

Yep, and this is why Im a bit peeved at Rey flouncing off with the Resistance at the end - I don't want holier than thou Rey, I want Grey Rey.

vaderito wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

Rey's love interest is of no consequence, beware of Kylo love interest cause he's the last of the Skywalker line. if they shoe-horn an LI it would be for him. The dreaded Skymom!

@vaderito

You know what? I can picture a scenario where Kylo survives because Rey sacrifices her life for his. Allowing him to have a Skymom in novels/comics. Do not want!

DarthRen wrote:I can now understand why Mark had disagreements with Rian Johnson. Luke attempting or even thinking about killing Ben in his sleep is messed up, very weird choice given how much Luke believed in Anakin being still alive.

I have to see to really judge it, but this will upset many people no matter where they stand in terms of Reylo or Rey's parentage. Luke's projection will be fine, it sounds truly beautiful but that part is really going to be debated heavily post-TLJ.

@DarthRen

This concerns me a lot more than anything else we learned in the past couple of hours. I just can't reconcile caring, gentle Luke even considering that killing his nephew was the way to solve any kind of problem. How?? He probably watched him grow up, he must have loved him at some point. Luke refused to kill his faceless mass murderer father who wasn't even part of his life growing up and when he entered the picture, he caused only pain. Seriously, I think this is bonkers and I'm not sure I'll ever warm up to the idea unless some serious explaining is done in the future. So we have this backstory, and will be expected to clap our hands when Luke goes all snarky at the end with Kylo? I'm starting to think this is what the reviewer talked about when they said that narratively, Kylo was right and it's a bad for the movie.

Well, since the spoilers appear to be broadly true, I think I'm going to make my early prediction for where it all going...

Hades/Persephone.

By killing Snoke (who at nine feet tall is something of a Titan), Kylo becomes ruler of the Underworld... but here's the kicker, per a quote from Wikipedia; Despite modern connotations of death as evil, Hades was actually more altruistically inclined in mythology. Hades was often portrayed as passive rather than evil; his role was often maintaining relative balance.

We've already had the abduction phase (with the literal bridal carry into the Underworld/Starkiller base), but a key point in the story is that Hades lets Persephone go, but with another twist that because of pomegranate seeds she is still bound to him (their Force Bond) and returns to him as Queen of the Underworld (and from all accounts the two are probably the most stable couple in the whole Greek pantheon).

My hunch is that Kylo is going to try and earn Rey's love by reforming the First Order into something positive for the galaxy (i.e. something she would be okay with ruling at his side), which will in turn lead to a civil war with Hux (i.e. Space Hitler) and his allies. The need to take down Hux and not being able to do it himself will be the pretext for Kylo to again reach out to Rey (i.e. for help against a greater evil) and in the process of helping Rey will see all of Kylo's efforts to change not just himself but the First Order for the better.

I suspect that the First Order will not be salvageable and so Kylo will ultimately have to choose between his doomed attempt at reform from the inside and destroying it with Rey's help. He'll obviously choose Rey because he's basically Zuko from ATLA if Aang had been a girl. Him trying to be the Renperor is Zuko at the end of Book Two... who had everything he'd ever wanted (returning to the Fire Nation with honor) only to be utterly unsatisfied by it and going and joining the motley band of Rebels to help bring down the bad guys (only for Zuko to end up the Fire Lord of a redeemed Fire Nation).

I can't help but wonder if something similar will be set up for Kylo. He wanted the power, turns away from the power for the sake of the girl and as a result proves himself worthy of the power after all (so long as he's got a queen who can balance him and keep him in check at his side).

DarthRen wrote:I can now understand why Mark had disagreements with Rian Johnson. Luke attempting or even thinking about killing Ben in his sleep is messed up, very weird choice given how much Luke believed in Anakin being still alive.

I have to see to really judge it, but this will upset many people no matter where they stand in terms of Reylo or Rey's parentage. Luke's projection will be fine, it sounds truly beautiful but that part is really going to be debated heavily post-TLJ.

@DarthRen

I can definitely see why diehard Luke and OT fans are massively upset. They wait all this time to see their heroes again, and 2 end up dead with the third needing to be written off due to real life tragedy. It certainly sounds like Luke will be back in IX at least.

I’m debating whether or not I should warn my dad about this. I warned my mom about Han in TFA but not my dad, because I didn’t think he would want to be spoiled, whereas I knew my mom would want to be prepared since she loves Harrison Ford. I was 1 for 2. My dad was shocked and visibly sad for 2 days (and movies don’t usually affect him), and I in turn felt like a schmuck.

Chris24601 wrote:Well, since the spoilers appear to be broadly true, I think I'm going to make my early prediction for where it all going...

Hades/Persephone.

By killing Snoke (who at nine feet tall is something of a Titan), Kylo becomes ruler of the Underworld... but here's the kicker, per a quote from Wikipedia; Despite modern connotations of death as evil, Hades was actually more altruistically inclined in mythology. Hades was often portrayed as passive rather than evil; his role was often maintaining relative balance.

We've already had the abduction phase (with the literal bridal carry into the Underworld/Starkiller base), but a key point in the story is that Hades lets Persephone go, but with another twist that because of pomegranate seeds she is still bound to him (their Force Bond) and returns to him as Queen of the Underworld (and from all accounts the two are probably the most stable couple in the whole Greek pantheon).

My hunch is that Kylo is going to try and earn Rey's love by reforming the First Order into something positive for the galaxy (i.e. something she would be okay with ruling at his side), which will in turn lead to a civil war with Hux (i.e. Space Hitler) and his allies. The need to take down Hux and not being able to do it himself will be the pretext for Kylo to again reach out to Rey (i.e. for help against a greater evil) and in the process of helping Rey will see all of Kylo's efforts to change not just himself but the First Order for the better.

I suspect that the First Order will not be salvageable and so Kylo will ultimately have to choose between his doomed attempt at reform from the inside and destroying it with Rey's help. He'll obviously choose Rey because he's basically Zuko from ATLA if Aang had been a girl. Him trying to be the Renperor is Zuko at the end of Book Two... who had everything he'd ever wanted (returning to the Fire Nation with honor) only to be utterly unsatisfied by it and going and joining the motley band of Rebels to help bring down the bad guys (only for Zuko to end up the Fire Lord of a redeemed Fire Nation).

I can't help but wonder if something similar will be set up for Kylo. He wanted the power, turns away from the power for the sake of the girl and as a result proves himself worthy of the power after all (so long as he's got a queen who can balance him and keep him in check at his side).

@Chris24601

I seriously hope this is where they are going with it. Also, it wouldn't make sense to keep Hux around (except for Pablo's Kylux fantasies ) if there won't be a rift within FO. But yes, in Kylo's portion of the story, he has to take power so that he can turn away from it to prove himself worthy.

Though at this point, I'm not sure where they'll go with anything. They obviously want us to think that he's toast (along with the Skywalker lineage) cause JJ announced IX to be the end of the Saga and that infamous KK quote (which obviously wasn't innocent now that we know TLJ plot) that sorta listed characters who may survive and none of them is Kylo. DRAMA!

Chris24601 wrote:Well, since the spoilers appear to be broadly true, I think I'm going to make my early prediction for where it all going...

Hades/Persephone.

By killing Snoke (who at nine feet tall is something of a Titan), Kylo becomes ruler of the Underworld... but here's the kicker, per a quote from Wikipedia; Despite modern connotations of death as evil, Hades was actually more altruistically inclined in mythology. Hades was often portrayed as passive rather than evil; his role was often maintaining relative balance.

We've already had the abduction phase (with the literal bridal carry into the Underworld/Starkiller base), but a key point in the story is that Hades lets Persephone go, but with another twist that because of pomegranate seeds she is still bound to him (their Force Bond) and returns to him as Queen of the Underworld (and from all accounts the two are probably the most stable couple in the whole Greek pantheon).

My hunch is that Kylo is going to try and earn Rey's love by reforming the First Order into something positive for the galaxy (i.e. something she would be okay with ruling at his side), which will in turn lead to a civil war with Hux (i.e. Space Hitler) and his allies. The need to take down Hux and not being able to do it himself will be the pretext for Kylo to again reach out to Rey (i.e. for help against a greater evil) and in the process of helping Rey will see all of Kylo's efforts to change not just himself but the First Order for the better.

I suspect that the First Order will not be salvageable and so Kylo will ultimately have to choose between his doomed attempt at reform from the inside and destroying it with Rey's help. He'll obviously choose Rey because he's basically Zuko from ATLA if Aang had been a girl. Him trying to be the Renperor is Zuko at the end of Book Two... who had everything he'd ever wanted (returning to the Fire Nation with honor) only to be utterly unsatisfied by it and going and joining the motley band of Rebels to help bring down the bad guys (only for Zuko to end up the Fire Lord of a redeemed Fire Nation).

I can't help but wonder if something similar will be set up for Kylo. He wanted the power, turns away from the power for the sake of the girl and as a result proves himself worthy of the power after all (so long as he's got a queen who can balance him and keep him in check at his side).

@Chris24601

This is an Episode IX I would really love to see! (I know I haven’t seen TLJ yet, lol)

Domhnall Gleeson is a fantastic actor and they’d be mad not to make more use of him in the 3rd movie. The big bads don’t have to have the force or anything special, in fact it’s more fitting for the times we live in if they don’t. I could see how Hux might be better placed than Kylo to get the FO supporters on side. It would make for some excellent drama and be a different kind of conflict to past SW movies.

How can Rey forgive Kylo after he massacred the whole resistance though? Not to mention causing Luke’s death indirectly. I hope they find a way to fix it. If Episode 1-2-3 were about a good jedi turned dark... how about 7-8-9 are about a dark jedi turn back to the light? Please can we have something like that?

@motherofpearl1

I can understand, Finn and co need her and are her family. Kylo made a stupid choice from her POV. He can't have it all like that.

teltaru wrote:

DarthRen wrote:I can now understand why Mark had disagreements with Rian Johnson. Luke attempting or even thinking about killing Ben in his sleep is messed up, very weird choice given how much Luke believed in Anakin being still alive.

I have to see to really judge it, but this will upset many people no matter where they stand in terms of Reylo or Rey's parentage. Luke's projection will be fine, it sounds truly beautiful but that part is really going to be debated heavily post-TLJ.

@DarthRen

This concerns me a lot more than anything else we learned in the past couple of hours. I just can't reconcile caring, gentle Luke even considering that killing his nephew was the way to solve any kind of problem. How?? He probably watched him grow up, he must have loved him at some point. Luke refused to kill his faceless mass murderer father who wasn't even part of his life growing up and when he entered the picture, he caused only pain. Seriously, I think this is bonkers and I'm not sure I'll ever warm up to the idea unless some serious explaining is done in the future. So we have this backstory, and will be expected to clap our hands when Luke goes all snarky at the end with Kylo? I'm starting to think this is what the reviewer talked about when they said that narratively, Kylo was right and it's a bad for the movie.

@teltaru

I don't get Luke's point of view at all and him being snarky at Kylo because he pushed him towards Snoke. He was pretty emotional when Kylo was mentioned on Ach-To. Maybe there is something missing but it sounds bizarre, not like Luke at all. Now I'm not so worried for Reylo, Kylo's fate after being confused at first. This Luke's part is truly something that has me bewildered.

vaderito wrote:

Chris24601 wrote:Well, since the spoilers appear to be broadly true, I think I'm going to make my early prediction for where it all going...

Hades/Persephone.

By killing Snoke (who at nine feet tall is something of a Titan), Kylo becomes ruler of the Underworld... but here's the kicker, per a quote from Wikipedia; Despite modern connotations of death as evil, Hades was actually more altruistically inclined in mythology. Hades was often portrayed as passive rather than evil; his role was often maintaining relative balance.

We've already had the abduction phase (with the literal bridal carry into the Underworld/Starkiller base), but a key point in the story is that Hades lets Persephone go, but with another twist that because of pomegranate seeds she is still bound to him (their Force Bond) and returns to him as Queen of the Underworld (and from all accounts the two are probably the most stable couple in the whole Greek pantheon).

My hunch is that Kylo is going to try and earn Rey's love by reforming the First Order into something positive for the galaxy (i.e. something she would be okay with ruling at his side), which will in turn lead to a civil war with Hux (i.e. Space Hitler) and his allies. The need to take down Hux and not being able to do it himself will be the pretext for Kylo to again reach out to Rey (i.e. for help against a greater evil) and in the process of helping Rey will see all of Kylo's efforts to change not just himself but the First Order for the better.

I suspect that the First Order will not be salvageable and so Kylo will ultimately have to choose between his doomed attempt at reform from the inside and destroying it with Rey's help. He'll obviously choose Rey because he's basically Zuko from ATLA if Aang had been a girl. Him trying to be the Renperor is Zuko at the end of Book Two... who had everything he'd ever wanted (returning to the Fire Nation with honor) only to be utterly unsatisfied by it and going and joining the motley band of Rebels to help bring down the bad guys (only for Zuko to end up the Fire Lord of a redeemed Fire Nation).

I can't help but wonder if something similar will be set up for Kylo. He wanted the power, turns away from the power for the sake of the girl and as a result proves himself worthy of the power after all (so long as he's got a queen who can balance him and keep him in check at his side).

@Chris24601

I seriously hope this is where they are going with it. Also, it wouldn't make sense to keep Hux around (except for Pablo's Kylux fantasies ) if there won't be a rift within FO. But yes, in Kylo's portion of the story, he has to take power so that he can turn away from it to prove himself worthy.

Though at this point, I'm not sure where they'll go with anything. They obviously want us to think that he's toast (along with the Skywalker lineage) cause JJ announced IX to be the end of the Saga and that infamous KK quote (which obviously wasn't innocent now that we know TLJ plot) that sorta listed characters who may survive and none of them is Kylo. DRAMA!

@vaderito

Whats that about Kylo not surviving the trilogy? Did I miss that?

none of the leaks hinted if Kylo and Leia will meet - I'm afraid there won't be an reunion after all...

Might just be my Reylo heart, but I think Kylo will survive, he will end up of being the reverse of Anakin. It makes for great story telling. And I wouldn’t be surprised if his force ghost isn’t the one who convinces Kylo to give up the FO in the end.
Also I don’t think it’s bad that Rey closes the door on him at the end. As my boyfriend will tell you I do it all of the time to him when I get mad at him, LOL!

Come on Thursday night!

Meomeo wrote:How can Rey forgive Kylo after he massacred the whole resistance though? Not to mention causing Luke’s death indirectly. I hope they find a way to fix it. If Episode 1-2-3 were about a good jedi turned dark... how about 7-8-9 are about a dark jedi turn back to the light? Please can we have something like that?

@Meomeo

She doesn't need to FORGIVE him, but she needs to accept who he is. The whole talk about balance is about this.

Rey (and probably a part of fandom) needs to accept that Ben Solo is gone and that even though he was a victim of circumstances, he did choose his path. He is Kylo Ren, a complete mess of feelings. Kylo, on the other hand, needs to accept that being The Ruler of the Galaxy is nothing like his grandpa imagined it would be. The chains of commanding are going to be tough, and our boy will suffer because the only person he cares about has a conflicting ideology to his own.

The balance is only going to be achieved when they accept each other. And then, the war can end.

Ynqve wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

Rey's love interest is of no consequence, beware of Kylo love interest cause he's the last of the Skywalker line. if they shoe-horn an LI it would be for him. The dreaded Skymom!

@vaderito

You know what? I can picture a scenario where Kylo survives because Rey sacrifices her life for his. Allowing him to have a Skymom in novels/comics. Do not want!

@Ynqve

I doubt they would do that since even the GA will want to know what happens in the end and might not buy a book or comic to find out.

The only way reylo isn't happening and I believe this has less than a 1% chance of happening now (going by a similar scenario in different mythological stories) is if Kylo is obliged to marry some female KOR or the daughter of one of the senior FO officers to cement his position as leader (the FO has some aristocratic families in it within canon)....and Rey also marries someone else (Finn probably since he is imprinted on her, sigh)....and the next trilogy is the love story of their children uniting the factions through a marriage and fighting an external enemy from the Unknown Regions.

I personally would hate this option....but I won't put it past LF to try something unpredictable like that either.

keelyshea24 wrote:Might just be my Reylo heart, but I think Kylo will survive, he will end up of being the reverse of Anakin.  It makes for great story telling.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if his force ghost isn’t the one who convinces Kylo to give up the FO in the end.  
Also I don’t think it’s bad that Rey closes the door on him at the end.  As my boyfriend will tell you I do it all of the time to him when I get mad at him, LOL!

Come on Thursday night!

@keelyshea24

Yup, typical angry girlfriend's reaction, slamming the bedroom's door in his face, telling him to sleep on the couch and rethink about his guilt.

panki wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

Rey's love interest is of no consequence, beware of Kylo love interest cause he's the last of the Skywalker line. if they shoe-horn an LI it would be for him. The dreaded Skymom!

@vaderito

You know what? I can picture a scenario where Kylo survives because Rey sacrifices her life for his. Allowing him to have a Skymom in novels/comics. Do not want!

@Ynqve

I doubt they would do that since even the GA will want to know what happens in the end and might not buy a book or comic to find out....the only way reylo isn't happening (going by a similar scenario in different mythological stories) is if Kylo is obliged to marry some female KOR or the daughter of one of the senior FO officers to cement his position as leader (the FO has some aristocratic families in it within canon)....and Rey also marries someone else (Finn probably since he is imprinted on her, sigh)....and the next trilogy is the love story of their children uniting the factions through a marriage and fighting an external enemy from the Unknown Regions.

I personally would hate this option....but I won't put it past LF to try something unpredictable like that either.

@panki

Poe is more likely than Finn. He has his own thing with Rose. It's getting pretty obvious now.

For Rey either Kylo or Jedi monk life.

For Kylo pain and suffering or Rey.

I was thinking about John's "The War to End All Wars" and I don't know what can it mean after TLJ. War between Light and Dark? Just Rey and Kylo = not enough. Can they introduce third party?

There were rumors about a lot of force sensetive children in IX but without context.

DarthRen wrote:

panki wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I hope Luke will appear in Episode IX as the powerful force ghost and teach the new generation of Jedi. Seriously at this point a Reylo kid is out of my imagination. I only see tragedy from here. I just hope they don’t shove a new love interest for Rey into our face. Like Poe is a good character but NOPE please.

@Meomeo

Rey's love interest is of no consequence, beware of Kylo love interest cause he's the last of the Skywalker line. if they shoe-horn an LI it would be for him. The dreaded Skymom!

@vaderito

You know what? I can picture a scenario where Kylo survives because Rey sacrifices her life for his. Allowing him to have a Skymom in novels/comics. Do not want!

@Ynqve

I doubt they would do that since even the GA will want to know what happens in the end and might not buy a book or comic to find out....the only way reylo isn't happening (going by a similar scenario in different mythological stories) is if Kylo is obliged to marry some female KOR or the daughter of one of the senior FO officers to cement his position as leader (the FO has some aristocratic families in it within canon)....and Rey also marries someone else (Finn probably since he is imprinted on her, sigh)....and the next trilogy is the love story of their children uniting the factions through a marriage and fighting an external enemy from the Unknown Regions.

I personally would hate this option....but I won't put it past LF to try something unpredictable like that either.

@panki

Poe is more likely than Finn. He has his own thing with Rose. It's getting pretty obvious now.

For Rey either Kylo or Jedi monk life.

For Kylo pain and suffering or Rey.

@DarthRen

I was hoping Poe and Paige got together....but now have turned my sights to Jessika Pava since she has a big crush on him in the comics and her helmet appears on his page where they mention his friends have evacuated elsewhere....am hoping for a sentimental reunion in episode 9.

Because this one ends on such a sour and dramatic note with Rey dumping him and Kylo staring up like he made the worst decision of his life a second time (Han slaying + asking Rey to be his empress) the last one is definitely going to turn things around. No worries, guys. This is the story. This is their conflict. It's not going anywhere.

I actually get the vibe Kylo is redeemed in this movie and the moment he turns on Rey is half serious, half played for "Ugh, not this again" comedy. Like, Rey has had enough of this s***.

RosiePancake wrote:

keelyshea24 wrote:Might just be my Reylo heart, but I think Kylo will survive, he will end up of being the reverse of Anakin.  It makes for great story telling.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if his force ghost isn’t the one who convinces Kylo to give up the FO in the end.  
Also I don’t think it’s bad that Rey closes the door on him at the end.  As my boyfriend will tell you I do it all of the time to him when I get mad at him, LOL!

Come on Thursday night!

@keelyshea24

Yup, typical angry girlfriend's reaction, slamming the bedroom's door in his face, telling him to sleep on the couch and rethink about his guilt.

@RosiePancake

Now that I think about it.

It reminds me and my girlfriend a bit. I got drunk one night, serenading to her under her window [very much Kylo move] and it was like 3:00 AM. She got mad, because I was supposed to take to the opera that night, romantic thing. I met few of my old friends and we just went too far with drinking. She got mad at me, throwing devil's eggs on me. For the next two days, I smelled like dog poop.

Lesson should be, take care of your woman and be there for her.

Can I just point out something else I never expected to see in this movie? Reylo Johnson made Reylo FUNNY. I can't. He gives zero *****. This is the funniest family drama I've ever heard of, and I'm freaking dying.

Rian really didn't lie when he called it a romantic drama lol

Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong but from spoilers I'm gathering Kylo never makes it to Ahch-To? Has that been confirmed? I'm honestly shocked if that's true. Adam went to Ireland for filming and MSW reported that Kylo's ship crashes and fight scenes were filmed involving him. MSW are pretty reliable so I don't get it.

Also, reviewers seemed to imply Rey and Kylo spend lots of time together? Are most of their scenes together happening through the force bond?

asterism wrote:Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong but from spoilers I'm gathering Kylo never makes it to Ahch-To? Has that been confirmed? I'm honestly shocked if that's true. Adam went to Ireland for filming and MSW reported that Kylo's ship crashes and fight scenes were filmed involving him. MSW are pretty reliable so I don't get it.

Also, reviewers seemed to imply Rey and Kylo spend lots of time together? Are most of their scenes together happening through the force bond?

@asterism
It's all happening through the Force bond. Kylo kind of does go to Ahch-To and Rey shows up in his world too.