Re: Horny Space Virgins With Issues (aka The "Yes Rey and Kylo Are Totes Virgins" thread)

[Piper Maru]

I cannot believe Virgin!Kylo is confirmed. I'm in heaven.

[FrolickingFizzgig]

You would have had to pry this from my cold, bisected corpse. Sweet validation.

[ReyofLightSide]

I concede.

I was a huge proponent of "He's dabbled" after TFA. (I mean, look at that Solo smirk when he unmasks...)  But upon seeing TLJ, and his lack of game with Rey, I reconsidered and moved to the Virgin! Kylo camp.

Clearly, Rian confirms Virgin! Kylo with this interview.

@ISeeAnIsland

I was in the "he dabbled" camp so now my thinking is, based on the article, he has a little experience, just never "closed the deal." I don't doubt as a Skywalker legacy and a prince he didn't lack some opportunities from the ladies. He was just awkward AF and wanted to practice his calligraphy.

[Atenais]

I always thought he was a virgin. He didn't know how to talk to girls and seemed so clueless when he was invading Rey's personal space in TFA, he's dressed in so many layers and barely showing any skin, he's very dedicated to his cause and probably never had time for girls (and I doubt Snoke would have allowed it), and before that he was training to become a Jedi and probably didn't have many opportunities for a relationship, either. He's also acting younger than he is and has some issues (temper tantrums). I also thought he came across as socially awkward in TFA and I could imagine that he was a quite shy boy who wasn't too popular with the other students. TLJ convinced me even more that he is a virgin and doesn't have much experience with girls. He thought telling Rey that she was nothing (but not to him) would seduce her to join him? And when she refused him he didn't know how to deal with it and totally lost it. Also, Kylo has such an innocent and pure face. And when he and Rey met in the hut, the naughtiest thing he did was removing his glove and holding hands with Rey. They didn't even kiss or touch anywhere else. There's just no way he is not a virgin.

I can't believe this was actually addressed by director and actors and came up in an interview It's a good sign for Reylo. Why else would they address this topic if Kylo won't get any romance in the films? Why was it important for Adam to know if Kylo had ever kissed a girl? If his relationship with Rey wasn't meant to be romantic, this aspect of his character wouldn't matter for his portrayal.

@Forsythia

THIS.

I'm team Kylo!Virgin too and I totally agree with your opinion.

I concede.

I was a huge proponent of "He's dabbled" after TFA. (I mean, look at that Solo smirk when he unmasks...)  But upon seeing TLJ, and his lack of game with Rey, I reconsidered and moved to the Virgin! Kylo camp.

Clearly, Rian confirms Virgin! Kylo with this interview.

@ISeeAnIsland

I was in the "he dabbled" camp so now my thinking is, based on the article, he has a little experience, just never "closed the deal." I don't doubt as a Skywalker legacy and a prince he didn't lack some opportunities from the ladies. He was just awkward AF and wanted to practice his calligraphy.

@ReyofLightSide

Priceless comment.

[ReyofLightSide]

I pray we get some young Ben Solo novels.

Also I feel like sometimes LF makes it clear if someone is a virgin or not.

Spoilers for Jyn Urso novel:

[vaderito]

I cannot believe Virgin!Kylo is confirmed. I'm in heaven.

@Piper Maru

Seconded. I couldn't freakin believe it. Rian understand this fandom so well!

[Reynak]

I don't know if he's a virgin, but he looked like he was going to devour her in one gulp in that elevator scene.

@Casper

That’s because he is starved after so many years of abstinence, LOL

Being more serious, all that tension just for touching a girl’s hand, or for standing near her in a lift speaks loud and clear. He’s so inexperienced it’s shocking, but also cute. The scary Kylo Ren is an innocent in so many things!

Like many of us here I’ve said this before, he’s a space Knight Templar, committed to a cause in body and soul and his cause is war. Knight Templars were warrior monks and had to renounce everything, including family and material possessions to go on a bloody and violent quest.

They were also religious zealots, just like Kylo, whose religion is the Force. The Templars organization was also an “Order”, the “Order of the Knights Templar” and they waged war against people with religious beliefs that were as strong as theirs. This reminds me of Kylo’s obsession with destroying the jedi. It’s said that he hunted for relicks, and this was compared with Indiana Jones, but it’s also what the Templars did, they started a “holy” war to conquer the lands where Jesus had , to liberate them from those who were infidels in their eyes. The Templars were also relick hunters. Relicks were highly valued.

I guess he now wants to be the Supreme Leader of his Order, just like the Templars’ Grand Master ruled theirs. He believes in his cause like they did, and they spilt lots of blood like Kylo did in TFA. He killed the people in a village and LST because they were infidels and in TLJ he wants to convert Rey to the true religion, the Dark Side.

Those who convert from one religion to another are usually very fanatical. This is what happens to Ben, and he changes his name like converts do. Everything clicks. So he must be a virgin. First he was a jedi novice and now a Dark Side novice. Novices are apprentices, like the jedi padawans or the sith apprentices. There’s never been time for love and sex in Kylo’s mind and life. he is like a medieval warrior monk. Even his sword looks like the red cross Templars wore on their tunics. The cowl he wore in TFA looked monastic too.

So his awakening to love and desire means a whole world because it will take him away from the destructive path he is in now, a path he started so long ago he had no chance to protect himself from indoctrination.

As long as he was a novice he could come back, this is what happened with monks in the past. I hope becoming Supreme Leader doesn’t mean he’s gone too far. It was crucial that he was an apprentice in TFA. If he isn’t one any more this is dangerous, as it makes his way back much more difficult. Being a novice isn’t final, being a monk or a priest is, symbolically at least.

[vaderito]

@Reynak In short, he can't touch an Empire. The look on his face at the end said it all. he wants rey but in IX his love will be unconditional.

[AhsokaTano]

That does explain snoke’s comment in the novelisation (ADF) to kylo about kylo being pure .

[MeadowofAshes]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

[AnneNeville]

You would have had to pry this from my cold, bisected corpse. Sweet validation.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Getting so much of that rare dish!

[ZioRen]

You would have had to pry this from my cold, bisected corpse. Sweet validation.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Same in every way, oh my gosh. I would have been in vehement denial if Rian or Adam had suggested anything otherwise. 

[ISeeAnIsland]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

[PalmettoBlue]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I always thought he had closed the deal, so to speak, from TFA. But it certainly didn't mean anything if he had. That said, this guy is really closed off, so I can completely understand where the Virgin!Kylo camp is coming from. And since Adam Driver actually asked, it's pretty clear he needs to know for scene purposes.
Therefore...based on the article, his shaking hand in the movie, and those longing looks, I'd go with a few games of spin the lightsaber, but nothing beyond that.
Virgin Kylo indeed.
I tend to think Rey is the same (minus the spin the lightsaber games.) She's so isolated on Jakku (based on the books I've read) - who the heck would she kiss? The options just don't bear thinking on.

[reylo1992]

Beyond the fact that he looks inexperienced, TLJ is all about the loss of virginity in term of sexual imagery. I mean, either my dirty mind over-imagined things or Rian really went with dirty subtexts in the movie.

From the second Skype call with Kylo having rain on his hand after talking with Rey to Kylo waking up after the explosion of the lightsaber, I couldn't help to see sexual subtext there. In fact, the whole sexual subtext regarding Kylo and Rey is all about experiencing sex for the first time after the Force was awakened in the first chapter.

Now that I think about it, the throne room scene is so full of sexual subtexts:
- The design of the room looks like a female genital tract
- Snoke - sitting right in the middle - represents the scaring virginal membrane
- PG represents the blood
We know what happens next...

[Kylo Rey]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I do think he came off as seductive in the second force bond scene - the one with the rain. Just his tone of voice, the look on his face and the way he walks towards Rey.

[PalmettoBlue]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I do think he came off as seductive in the second force bond scene - the one with the rain. Just his tone of voice, the look on his face and the way he walks towards Rey.

@Kylo Rey

I think Ben is better with the ladies, so to speak, than Kylo. When he's in Ben mode with Rey, he can bit a bit seductive (like the scene you mentioned,) but when he's in Kylo mode, he's a hot mess.

[SoloSideCousin]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree with both of you. Adam did say in an early 2016 interview that he learned new things about Kylo that he didn't know before in the TLJ script. This might have been one of those things, because if this question was answered before, why did he need to ask Rian?

Also, regardless, Kylo knows he's hot. Maybe Calligraphy Boy got a lot of attention at the Jedi camp from his peers.

Frankly,  Ben is like a bookish high school boy. He is still a teenager in everything but his force powers. It really speaks to the terrible level of Snoke's abuse that he stayed this way after he got away from Luke.

[Lily Snape]

Redacted


Maybe someone has a GIF of this with the actual Aragorn swagger, but when he offed the last guard and started walking toward Rey, I really thought he was going to just go for it and kiss her.  Sorry I posted them out of order, but you get the idea.  He's looking right at Rey the entire time, like this.

[IoJovi]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree with both of you. Adam did say in an early 2016 interview that he learned new things about Kylo that he didn't know before in the TLJ script. This might have been one of those things, because if this question was answered before, why did he need to ask Rian?

Also, regardless, Kylo knows he's hot. Maybe Calligraphy Boy got a lot of attention at the Jedi camp from his peers.

@SoloSideCousin

Kylo is a walking contradiction of himself, so I think it’s fitting that his sexuality would be no different.  He comes off as if he knows how to woo a woman with a flick of a finger, and a clueless virgin simultaneously.  No wonder the virgin conversations lasted as long as they did!

Lily Snape, the break up scene is quickly becoming one of my favorites. The viewer is supposed to think they’re going to run to each other for a kiss, but instead proves to be the opposite.

[Kessel]

Maybe someone has a GIF of this with the actual Aragorn swagger, but when he offed the last guard and started walking toward Rey, I really thought he was going to just go for it and kiss her.  Sorry I posted them out of order, but you get the idea.  He's looking right at Rey the entire time, like this.

@Lily Snape

Yes, I also noticed he didn't break eye contact with her in that scene. That's why I think it would have been hot to continue that a little bit after they got a reprieve from the fight. Not that I'm complaining, they made tons of intense eye contact in this movie (and TFA). In fact, I don't think any other characters in this trilogy have stared into each other's eyes as much as these two.

[SoloSideCousin]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree with both of you. Adam did say in an early 2016 interview that he learned new things about Kylo that he didn't know before in the TLJ script. This might have been one of those things, because if this question was answered before, why did he need to ask Rian?

Also, regardless, Kylo knows he's hot. Maybe Calligraphy Boy got a lot of attention at the Jedi camp from his peers.

@SoloSideCousin

Kylo is a walking contradiction of himself, so I think it’s fitting that his sexuality would be no different.  He comes off as if he knows how to woo a woman with a flick of a finger, and a clueless virgin simultaneously.  No wonder the virgin conversations lasted as long as they did!

Lily Snape, the break up scene is quickly becoming one of my favorites.  The viewer is supposed to think they’re going to run to each other for a kiss, but instead proves to be the opposite.

@IoJovi

Lol. Maybe spin the bottle led to a little more elicit activity behind a Jedi hut which taught him a few more things, but didn't get near closing the deal.  I also could see him as a guy who would read up on technique.

Maybe someone has a GIF of this with the actual Aragorn swagger, but when he offed the last guard and started walking toward Rey, I really thought he was going to just go for it and kiss her.  Sorry I posted them out of order, but you get the idea.  He's looking right at Rey the entire time, like this.

@Lily Snape

I saw the exact same thing. He was walking towards her and looked like he was going to kiss her,  whereas she just ran to the monitor as if nothing big had happened. No wonder I'm still kind of mad at her ... *and* no wonder he got pissy about her parents.  You know he must been thinking, "I gave you my everything and you can't even look at me" ... because if you watch the scene she averts her eyes from him when going to the Resistance monitor.

[Atenais]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I always thought he had closed the deal, so to speak, from TFA. But it certainly didn't mean anything if he had. That said, this guy is really closed off, so I can completely understand where the Virgin!Kylo camp is coming from. And since Adam Driver actually asked, it's pretty clear he needs to know for scene purposes.
Therefore...based on the article, his shaking hand in the movie, and those longing looks, I'd go with a few games of spin the lightsaber, but nothing beyond that.
Virgin Kylo indeed.
I tend to think Rey is the same (minus the spin the lightsaber games.) She's so isolated on Jakku (based on the books I've read) - who the heck would she kiss? The options just don't bear thinking on.

@PalmettoBlue

It's really gratifying to see how attentive Adam was about his work and how he put his full attention in the construction of this character. A less subtle actor could have made an awful Kylo Ren.

[LadyHa]

Kylo is a walking contradiction of himself, so I think it’s fitting that his sexuality would be no different.  He comes off as if he knows how to woo a woman with a flick of a finger, and a clueless virgin simultaneously.  No wonder the virgin conversations lasted as long as they did!

@IoJovi

Perfectly said.  I think I'm the only one not fully on the Virgin Train. He is so confident and suggestive most of the time.  What virgin acts like he does in that topless scene? I interpreted the interview quote as Adam asking if Kylo had any sexual experience and that Rian said yes.  I want more investigation into this topic! Someone get Rian on the phone for me!

[Reynak]

I feel somehow vindicated Adam thought his character dabbled though.

@MeadowofAshes

I still don't think I was insane for thinking he might have dabbled, based off of my initial instincts from TFA.

Adam played Kylo as somewhat seductive in TFA. There was a shift in TLJ where I thought he played him as noticeably inexperienced.

@ISeeAnIsland

I agree with both of you. Adam did say in an early 2016 interview that he learned new things about Kylo that he didn't know before in the TLJ script. This might have been one of those things, because if this question was answered before, why did he need to ask Rian?

Also, regardless, Kylo knows he's hot. Maybe Calligraphy Boy got a lot of attention at the Jedi camp from his H
Frankly,  Ben is like a bookish high school boy. He is still a teenager in everything but his force powers. It really speaks to the terrible level of Snoke's abuse that he stayed this way after he got away from Luke.

@SoloSideCousin


Remember when we talked in the old thread about how Snoke was coded as a child abuser? I think TLJ goes hints at that very much. The way the creep talks to both Rey and Kylo and how he uses young Solo , as he calls him, to lure Rey to his lair.

Kylo is once more heavily sexualized. He is used as bait to catch Rey and it works until Kylo puts an end to Snoke’s plans and his life. The roles are subverted again and Rey, the hero, goes to the dragon’s ( Snoke/snake’s) lair to save the trapped princess, prince in this case.

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