Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

[Kessel]

Luke is not the main hero anymore and different rules apply to supporting characters. It's really simple. He can't save Kylo cause his place in the story isn't the same as it was in ROTJ. He thought of killing Ben in his sleep for the same reason too - what the main hero cannot do, a supporting character can. His fans should understand that different roles in the story result in different characterization. There's nothing un-organic in this development - people become more conservative as they grow older, so Luke's endless optimism and liberalism from 29 years ago was not going to stick. Hence thinking to do something to Ben that he didn't think to do to Vader after he found out they were related.

OTOH, since Rey and Kylo are the main protagonists, their place in the story in Luke's from OT. Kylo and Rey #truelove can save Kylo because that's what main leads do. TLJ did one fairytale trope right which is that killing the witch (Snoke) cannot lift the curse, only #truelove can. Cue Episode IX.

BTW, noticed that TFA and TLJ end in a similar fashion:

Rey and Kylo call the saber to them. The saber goes to Rey or explodes.

Rey and Kylo exchange longing looks across the space until Rey turns away from Kylo, who is always in a submissive position (lying, kneeling), and leaves him while keeping the thing that is the symbol of their bond (the saber, two halves of the broken saber)

I hope that Rey won't leave him in IX.

@vaderito

I agree that Luke can't save Kylo because their relationship is tainted. Luke's actions turned Ben to the dark side. He says as much to Leia at the end of the film. I have no problem with that. However, Luke thinking of killing Ben is a big problem for me. Why would Luke have lost his optimism at this point? Ben hadn't turned yet and Luke was successful in redeeming Vader. After turning to the dark side and killing his father I could see why Luke would lose all hope in Ben. But before that? No. Again, my problem is not the role that Luke occupies in the story now. I actually like that Luke was the catalyst that turned Ben to the dark side. I just wish they had come up with a backstory that feels less jarring to me.

@Lucina

It's a subversion of Luke's role as redeemer in the OT, to Luke now being the catalyst for a fall.  Perhaps the reason why Luke initially reacted the way he did is because he harbored some deep-seated trauma and shame about what Vader was and did, and he felt a duty to irradiate the possibility of Vader's evil if he saw again. Maybe the sins of his father haunted Luke more than it intially appeared? When he looked in Ben's head, he saw a vision of all the destruction and chaos he'd bring, Luke reacted on impulse, but ultimately backed away at the last moment. However, the damage was already done.

The problem is, the future is always in motion as Yoda would say, so Ben had not turned yet and who knows what would have happened had Luke had a chance to speak to him or go after Snoke.

[vaderito]

I'm done for today. I'm crying because of this video.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc-l9tRAkV_/

[DeeBee]

@Reynak
Nothing in TFA actually suggests that Rey is anybody important or related to anybody important. In fact, the undercurrent is that she has to let go of her past because it's dragging her down. She wasted 14 years of her life waiting for a family that was "never coming back". Maz Kanata spells that out as blatantly as possible and yet the parentage theories persisted until release and continue to persist even now. I'm not kidding. There's a section of SW fans who are utterly convinced that Kylo lied to Rey about her abandonment. I guess they didn't hear the part where Rey herself confirms the truth because she knew it all along and couldn't admit it. This is another great example of fans latching on, creating a mystery where there is no mystery and beginning the cycle of disappointment all over again.

@FrolickingFizzgig
Well put!!! It's like some fans are as much fixated on Rey's parents as Rey was! Rey thought knowing who her parents were would give her answers and explain who she is/ her identify - so too with fans who can't accept Rey could be from random. figuring out who her parents are will solve everything! It will explain her place in this story! the fans are as prone to magical thinking as Rey is (till she learns her lesson).
Um no. TLJ tells you the opposite. rey's place in all this is not explained by her parentage, and it does not give her her identity.
it's at the heart of Rey's story inm TLJ. By the end of TLJ I think Rey has accepted this - but maybe some fans are yet to get there!

The "parentage" thing started before TFA was even released, FWIW. People were already making a mystery out of nothing before they knew anything about Rey's character of the storyline. You can't please a fanbase like that and Rian didn't even try. He went for what was the most narratively poetic, satisfying and challenging to Rey as a character, and from that perspective I'm with him 100%.

Again, so true! Yes Rian was wise to not let it determine his path. I think in ten years all the fans will be listing TLJ as the best TLJ movie ever! [at the same time I hope IX will equal it!] being a middle saga it's going to be easier to experience in the context of all three movies. So the story is currently in a form of limbo. Add to this that it is the 8th in a 9 part story, and I think there is no escaping the need to hang tight - take it for what it is.. and trust all will be revealed!

The Snoke situation is even stupider, IMO. Absolutely nothing in TFA implies that he's anything beyond what he turned out to be, a rich, powerful dark sider who seduced Ben Solo. Fans assumed there had to be a lot more to him based on precedents in SW, and now that it turns out he was largely a plot device they're salty. But, again, they were looking at it as a mystery to be solved rather than a story. They weren't thinking about the organic process of characterization or asking themselves what purpose Snoke could serve if he wasn't some ancient dark side force.

I'm open to anything with Snoke! If his story is not done yet I'm fine with it.. if it is- I'm still fine with it
but I can totally see for Kylo's arc it was great he is now free of Snoke's influence and can start to think more for himself.
I think it will take time for his thinking to adjust - even when relating to Rey he was influenced by snoke, and the view that weakness is to be used to get what you want.. I look forward to seeing where Kylo goes next, without snoke in his head!

I do hope if FG Luke is around he will not be 'haunting' Kylo - has too many shades of Snoke. I"d like to see Kylo/Ben's mind be free to begin to question his life and choices, without being hounded. But - occasional voice of reason and encouraging mentor Luke, with matchmaker Luke- a jedi giving advice about romantic love could be utterly hilarious!

Rian came it it from the right perspective; many fans did not, particularly where Luke is concerned. They can't accept him as a mentor figure who is largely in the story to support Rey and Kylo. They wanted Luke to be the hero or main character going in and were sorely disappointed when that turned out not to be the case. Again, that isn't a problem with Rian's writing, it's a matter of unappeasable expectations. Luke's arc is damn powerful and I truly believe many slamming it are going to come around after IX.

true.. it is tough to give up on seeing the story you would love to see.. for the sake of every fan's enjoyment of SW, I hope in time people will accept and embrace. I'm not engaging in or reading all the gripes, I'm letting it wash over me..
I agree with you @FrolickingFizzgig I thought Luke's story was so powerful and wonderful. And Luke's acceptance and acknowledgement of his mistakes - while also being proactive seeking forgiveness, and not being overwhelmed by his own failure and weakness is a great example to Kylo/Ben moving forward.

My only gripe is Poe. I would have wanted his screen-time cut down to at least half what he had. Actually, I would have wanted him to die in TFA, but that's a separate matter. I actually didn't mind his scenes because I enjoyed Holdo immensely and I understand why Rian felt the need to promote him. Carrie's health at the time was a huge contributing factor. Originally there was more of a plotline surrounding Leia's tension with Holdo that was reworked to make more room for Poe.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I love Leia and Holdo's friendship so I'm really pleased they didn't go there! I was so moved by their courage as they said goodbye.. and their respect and love for one another. I loved to see in SW two women who are friends, and spurring each other on to be brave and fight for what they believe it.

I figure Poe is leader in IX, so TLJ set that up well.. until Carrie's passing I would have agreed that I preferred he die in VII! but.. it is what it is..

[DeeBee]

By the way, the fight scene against Snoke can be seen as a metaphor for sex at least as regards subtext and yesterday I noticed how Kylo was lying on the floor after the explosion, on his side, as if he was sleeping. It seemed a bit strange for me the first time I saw it but now I think he was like a man who’s made love with a woman who made his world rock and when he wakes up from his sleep he’s alone in his bed. The girl went away without saying good bye or leaving him a note. He was furious after that, like a spurned lover. The visuals may suggest that.

@Reynak

Reynak I love it! I can see it now..
" Ummm about the Throne room...."

I loved those dice that passed from one Skywalker to another, the three of them, Han’s dice, and that Snoke called Kylo young Solo and told him he had his father’s heart. I think this may be foreshadowing. He’s his father’s son, not only Vader’s spawn. And he may not be strong enough for the DS because, unlike Anakin, he’s got a soft heart like Han’s. In the OT Han Solo saved Luke and made it possible for the Resistance to win. Also, Rey said to Luke Ben was their only hope if Luke didn’t want to come back. This should mean he will be crucial to save the day in lX if there’s continuity.

Especially loved this insight here Reynak. so wonderful to see Han, his presence, his legacy, being referenced throughout.
Yeah Snoke knew Kylo very well.. and his observation that he had Han's heart is I think very significant - and wonderful! Snoke was cruel, but he also spoke the truth.

[vaderito]

I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't land on Renperor's Spotify:

Hurt
Johnny Cash
I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have…

[DeeBee]

I agree that Luke can't save Kylo because their relationship is tainted. Luke's actions turned Ben to the dark side. He says as much to Leia at the end of the film. I have no problem with that. However, Luke thinking of killing Ben is a big problem for me. Why would Luke have lost his optimism at this point? Ben hadn't turned yet and Luke was successful in redeeming Vader. After turning to the dark side and killing his father I could see why Luke would lose all hope in Ben. But before that? No. Again, my problem is not the role that Luke occupies in the story now. I actually like that Luke was the catalyst that turned Ben to the dark side. I just wish they had come up with a backstory that feels less jarring to me.

@Lucina
Great to hear your thoughts Lucina, they are different to my own and I hadn't really stopped to think through some of the really interesting questions you raise!
the bolded is key - the story tells us this is what Luke did. We won't really like it, but it is what happened.... Maybe we can understand it based on what we know.. worth a try - I'll share my 2cents worth.. [but certainly not telling you how to think or feel about this element of the story ]

Indeed - great point - between the two situations in ROTJ and TLJ something is different! Maybe this is where the answer lies- your perspective has encouraged me to dig deeper here.. to answer why he would have even considered it in the first place! [Even if we learned that luke had already decided not to go through with it..]

So, what's different... I can't remember the exact words but it seemed to me that Luke suddenly sensed a great deal of darkness in Ben - I got the impression that it was a large quantity of darkness, and a sudden shock which Luke  had not seen coming at all.
I think this is what freaks Luke out - he didn't see it! He was taken by surprise by it.
With Vader, Luke was cognizant of Vader's darkness, and his conflict and he was not taken by surprise in ROTJ.
With Ben - who he SHOULD have known so well, he had been blind.
And in Luke's eyes this was a great danger... Luke at that point was responsible for many jedi students, the future of the jedi order, and he felt huge responsibility. So being so blind seemed to have been traumatic for Luke.
Yes for just a moment it all overrode his connection with his nephew..
I guess Luke's failure to sense the growing darkness, contributed to his one second of madness..  and a further failure!
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[DeeBee]

@MrsWindu – thanks so much for sharing all the artwork – it’s gorgeous!
Interesting that Rey isn’t wearing the cuffs in the elevator.
An aside – were they special cuffs that deal with force users?
Please share what you can but don’t go getting yourself in trouble
@Darth_Awakened – that cartoon is adorable!
@Vaderito -Johnny Cash and Kylo? That’s so genius!
Those lyrics are fantastic- eerily so!

[vaderito]

@MrsWindu – thanks so much for sharing all the artwork – it’s gorgeous!
Interesting that Rey isn’t wearing the cuffs in the elevator.
An aside – were they special cuffs that deal with force users?
Please share what you can but don’t go getting yourself in trouble
@Darth_Awakened – that cartoon is adorable!
@Vaderito -Johnny Cash and Kylo? That’s so genius!
Those lyrics are fantastic- eerily so!

@DeeBee

I hope someone makes a great video to that song, like Renperor's ruminations on what he lost and could've had. I also want James Mangold (Logan) to make a Ben Solo movie.

[Saracene]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

[AceofWands]

Regarding the bolded part: I don’t think that’s the main reason why people are pissed about Luke’s portrayal. The problem is, that Luke was contemplating to kill Ben in his sleep. That goes against everything that was previously established about his character. So it’s against Luke’s moral compass to kill Darth Vader (who is basically a stranger to him at that point), yet thinks (albeit briefly) about killing his own nephew in his sleep? I’m sorry but that’s just out of character! And afterwards he doesn’t even try to make things right again but immediately gives up and claims the Jedi have to end??? That’s almost as bad as Padme losing her will to live after the birth of her twins!  

I’m perfectly fine with the OT heroes having flaws and making mistakes (that’s way more interesting than being perfect anyway) but their actions and motivations have to make sense to me and shouldn’t contradict what was established about them before, even if they're just supporting characters in this story now.

That's one of the main reasons why I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with TLJ right now and I'm not even a massive Luke Skywalker fan!

@Lucina


I thought it was out of character, but I don't blame RJ for that. The issue started in TFA. First, Luke didn't step up or show up to see if his sister needed anything, and he didn't do sith to help his nephew. Really? Really? And also JJ had no idea why Luke was stuck in that island. He left it to RJ to figure it out. JJ also had this character, Kylo, who turned on Luke, but who had to seem sympathetic.

I think RJ did the best he could with the story (or lack of story)  that was given to him. I was upset at TFA. I understand the movie is not about the old heroes, but they don't need to be wimps who don't care about their family. And that goes for Han Solo as well. That character had a huge heart. He risked his life to save Luke. To protect Leia. Now he was just travelling and being cool? So those are things that I didn't like about the ST. I went through all stages of grief and I was accepting.

I actually like the story we were given in TLJ. I understand that everyone makes mistakes, including Luke. For me it's hard that he wouldn't want to fix his mistake, or to help his sister, but that's JJ and Laurence Kasdan's choice. I think that, within the constraints given to RJ, he did a good job.

I am a Luke Skywalker fan. I think he's the most relatable character in the OT. He's hopeful, optimistic... To see him as a jaded old man is super sad. But then again, I think the problem comes from TFA. I can't think of a different direction for TLJ that would keep Luke intact, unless we had some extra force, conspiracies, brainwashing... It could be possible, but then it would make the conflict too easy. It would be easy to blame everything on Snoke, for example, and leave Luke's reputation clean. They could also give Luke an honorable reason to be in that island. But, I don't know, all these issues would avoid conflict, and I think stories are better with more conflict.

[Night Huntress]

I thought it was out of character, but I don't blame RJ for that. The issue started in TFA. First, Luke didn't step up or show up to see if his sister needed anything, and he didn't do sith to help his nephew. Really? Really? And also JJ had no idea why Luke was stuck in that island. He left it to RJ to figure it out. JJ also had this character, Kylo, who turned on Luke, but who had to seem sympathetic.

I think RJ did the best he could with the story (or lack of story)  that was given to him. I was upset at TFA. I understand the movie is not about the old heroes, but they don't need to be wimps who don't care about their family. And that goes for Han Solo as well. That character had a huge heart. He risked his life to save Luke. To protect Leia. Now he was just travelling and being cool? So those are things that I didn't like about the ST. I went through all stages of grief and I was accepting.

I actually like the story we were given in TLJ. I understand that everyone makes mistakes, including Luke. For me it's hard that he wouldn't want to fix his mistake, or to help his sister, but that's JJ and Laurence Kasdan's choice. I think that, within the constraints given to RJ, he did a good job.

@AceofWands

Yes, exactly! You explained exactly why I didn't liked TFA at first... Many fans are angry and bitter about TLJ but at the same time praising TFA- I'm just like- what???  

Rian can't undo what was already set in TFA- he had to come up with some believable story for why Luke is there... and I think he did a good job. I have much bigger issues with how Leia & Han were handled in the ST and that was JJ not Rian.

[Lily Snape]

I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't land on Renperor's Spotify:

Hurt
Johnny Cash
I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have…

@vaderito

Johnny Cash's cover or the Nine Inch Nails original?  By the way, I love Johnny Cash-- my grandfather was the consummate Irishman and loved traditional Irish music but was also a big Dan of Johnny Cash, so I grew up with his music.  This is one of those rare occasions where both the original and the cover are terrific.  


I think U2's "With or Without You" probably reminds me of the dynamic of Rey and Kylo-- at least as I imagine it-- more than any other song.

[shii405]

Observing the shirtless Kylo Ren screenshot again (DON'T ASK WHY), at certain point, the scar through his neck and reaching his shoulder looks really clear with the lighting and it still looks quite prominent and deep, and I'm wondering... is he really getting proper treatment for the scar? After TFA, I thought when they meet again Kylo would totally yell at her "You scarred my beautiful face!!" but he's not mad at all about it, lol. I wonder if his scar is gonna be a significant subtext?

In "Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber" (a classic Chinese wuxia story), the main couple, enemies-become-lovers, Wuji and Zhaomin, had this cute moment which reminds me of a physical scar caused by a lover. For some reason, Zhaomin (the evil Mongolian princess) suddenly bite Wuji's arm deep that it bleeds. Then a couple of scenes later, she tend his wound caused by her biting, there was this cute conversation:
Zhao: Oh yeah, you think you're smarter than me? Do you know I just give you poisonous paste on your arm to make the scar worse and deeper?
Wuji: What? Why did you do that!?
Zhao: That girl outside whom you met in your childhood said she can never forget you, bcos you bite her so hard that the scar never went away.
Wuji: So?
Zhao: So, I bite you... so you will never forget me... but I didn't have the heart to bite you so hard, so I just bite you enough to leave scar then I used this poison to make it never go away.
Wuji: Just how evil can you get!! ..........then, I better bite you, so you'll never forget me too.
Zhao: No way.

I'm loving all those Reylo fanfics where Rey kisses his scar. I'm just wondering if Kylo will leave that scar as it is, not treating it properly in purpose? Maybe.... he like it that Rey gave him that scar? He never shows any anger about it. It's like some kind of symbol, that his heart will always be hers? Unconsciously, of course.

What is that surgery droid suppose to be doing during his first Force bond with Rey? I thought he was getting treatment. But the scar didn't look any better during the shirtless scene.

I really hope they're gonna keep the scar. I'm so gonna miss it if JJ decided to completely healed his face scar.

[RosiePancake]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html




DON'T GIVE UP THE SHIP
PLAYING IT SAFE ALWAYS ENDS IN DISASTER.

Yo shout out to anyone who wants Rey to end up with the perfectly flawless Poe or the sweet summer child Finn.

[lauvamp]

A Reylo parallel we all already know, but I analysed it a little bit:

https://lauvamp.tumblr.com/post/168853704611/jane-eyre-similarities-with-reylo-mr-edward

[Lucina]

I thought it was out of character, but I don't blame RJ for that. The issue started in TFA. First, Luke didn't step up or show up to see if his sister needed anything, and he didn't do sith to help his nephew. Really? Really? And also JJ had no idea why Luke was stuck in that island. He left it to RJ to figure it out. JJ also had this character, Kylo, who turned on Luke, but who had to seem sympathetic.

I think RJ did the best he could with the story (or lack of story)  that was given to him. I was upset at TFA. I understand the movie is not about the old heroes, but they don't need to be wimps who don't care about their family. And that goes for Han Solo as well. That character had a huge heart. He risked his life to save Luke. To protect Leia. Now he was just travelling and being cool? So those are things that I didn't like about the ST. I went through all stages of grief and I was accepting.

I actually like the story we were given in TLJ. I understand that everyone makes mistakes, including Luke. For me it's hard that he wouldn't want to fix his mistake, or to help his sister, but that's JJ and Laurence Kasdan's choice. I think that, within the constraints given to RJ, he did a good job.

@AceofWands

Yes, exactly! You explained exactly why I didn't liked TFA at first... Many fans are angry and bitter about TLJ but at the same time praising TFA- I'm just like- what???  

Rian can't undo what was already set in TFA- he had to come up with some believable story for why Luke is there... and I think he did a good job. I have much bigger issues with how Leia & Han were handled in the ST and that was JJ not Rian.

@Night Huntress

What's funny is that I didn't have a problem with Leia and Han in TFA at all. It made sense to me that both were somewhat neglectful to their child. Leia had always been the workaholic who is dedicated to the cause, so I thought it was in-character for her to prioritize rebuilding the New Republic over spending time with her son (I'm sure she thought Ben would understand...). Han had always been a free spirit, so I can see him having trouble adjusting to a regular family life. Also being basically the Muggle of the family, I can see why Han would feel that both Leia and Luke had a closer connection to Ben than him. I think that's one of the reasons, why Han didn't believe that he could bring Ben back home ("He has too much Vader in him.")

[vaderito]

Johnny Cash's cover or the Nine Inch Nails original?  By the way, I love Johnny Cash-- my grandfather was the consummate Irishman and loved traditional Irish music but was also a big Dan of Johnny Cash, so I grew up with his music.  This is one of those rare occasions where both the original and the cover are terrific.  


I think U2's "With or Without You" probably reminds me of the dynamic of Rey and Kylo-- at least as I imagine it-- more than any other song.

@Lily Snape

Yes! Bring Irish soul to Renperor's torment.

[Kylo Men]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

It's not that what I think they did is bad. But splitting them up killed a lot of the momentum of the movie. Rey disappears, and so does Kylo's brain, and we're stuck with Finn and Rose. I'm not sure it was the right decision. The ronin option might have been better.

[Kylo Men]

Looking at the bad box office drop, I would say Reylo odds are going up, because they're not going to leave this trilogy without a possible Skywalker heir down the road, if they even were thinking about it.

Unless of course they decide Rey really is Luke's daughter after all. Cringe.

[ISeeAnIsland]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

It's not that what I think they did is bad. But splitting them up killed a lot of the momentum of the movie. Rey disappears, and so does Kylo's brain, and we're stuck with Finn and Rose. I'm not sure it was the right decision. The ronin option might have been better.

@Kylo Men

If I had to guess, they essentially fridged Rey for the last half hour of the movie so that we wouldn't see her thoughts/reactions to what had transpired with Kylo. If they'd kept her on camera, they would have had to tip their hat as to how she was feeling, and it seems like they still wanted to keep some mystery around that...perhaps if only to make that final shot of her closing the Falcon door more impactful.

[ZioRen]

I want this video played at my wedding

https://damnyoudisney.tumblr.com/post/168849109913/and-its-sweet-sweet-victory

[MyOnlyHope]

I want this video played at my wedding

https://damnyoudisney.tumblr.com/post/168849109913/and-its-sweet-sweet-victory

@ZioRen
Hahahaha this is brilliant.

Being right never gets old.

[SoloSideCousin]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

It's not that what I think they did is bad. But splitting them up killed a lot of the momentum of the movie. Rey disappears, and so does Kylo's brain, and we're stuck with Finn and Rose. I'm not sure it was the right decision. The ronin option might have been better.

@Kylo Men

If I had to guess, they essentially fridged Rey for the last half hour of the movie so that we wouldn't see her thoughts/reactions to what had transpired with Kylo.  If they'd kept her on camera, they would have had to tip their hat as to how she was feeling, and it seems like they still wanted to keep some mystery around that...perhaps if only to make that final shot of her closing the Falcon door more impactful.

@ISeeAnIsland

This, and I think that they also want to save her true reactions for Episode IX.  I imagine that they will be quite the opposite of her steely "slamming the door in his face" look.

[Guest]

Looking at the bad box office drop, I would say Reylo odds are going up, because they're not going to leave this trilogy without a possible Skywalker heir down the road, if they even were thinking about it.

Unless of course they decide Rey really is Luke's daughter after all. Cringe.

@Kylo Men

I've heard the second film of the trilogy always makes less than the first, so I decided to look it up.

ANH  775 million
ESB   538 million
ROTJ 475 million

TPM   1 billion
AOTC 649 million
ROTS 848 million

TFA    2 billion

RO     1 billion

I was surprised ROTJ wasn't higher.

[MrsWindu]

I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't land on Renperor's Spotify:

Hurt
Johnny Cash
I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here
What have…

@vaderito

Johnny Cash's cover or the Nine Inch Nails original?  By the way, I love Johnny Cash-- my grandfather was the consummate Irishman and loved traditional Irish music but was also a big Dan of Johnny Cash, so I grew up with his music.  This is one of those rare occasions where both the original and the cover are terrific.  


I think U2's "With or Without You" probably reminds me of the dynamic of Rey and Kylo-- at least as I imagine it-- more than any other song.

@Lily Snape

You Tube must have assessed my watch history as they suggested I watch the Reylo version after I saw the Logan version of Johnny Cash's cover

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