Official TROS Spoilers discussion

btw. in a fantasy series I read the author wrote a spin-off book with one of the villains as the protagonist. Boy, did I HATED that guy in the main series. I wanted him to die a slow agonizing death- no way I would like that awful monster EVER.

The author proved me wrong- in his book you learn about his tragic past and how he became that brutal cruel henchmen...you see events through his eyes and suddenly you understand. I was hoping to have something similar in TROS.

I know a movie is a different medium and there isn't so much time to convey everything...but they haven't even tried. All his backstory is in additional EU material.

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

Oh so JJ wanted to give free direction over to Rian, but also can't accept what Rian did. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. A**!

Anyone seen the name Jar Jar Abrams lol. So good.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Holy Sith.. kenobi was associated with the dagger or mortis.

God damn, Rey Palpatine.. not JJs idea I'm betting or Lucas

He wanted it to tie with the clone wars

JJ was right, the end product of TROS does not unite an audience

God damn.

You can see echoes of what it was meant to be in the third act.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I'm dubious of this in terms of validity, but what a great find! It at the very least tells me that there is a HUGE chunk of fandom that is not happy and sense of a lack of cohesiveness. But man if its the truth I wouldn't be shocked, but my eyebrows would fly to my hairline lol

I didn't like TLJ but this is a disrespect to Rian, George Lucas, the SW mythos and the cultural relevance of the saga. All because a tiny man is so arrogant and simultaneously afraid of the Disney suits. BLARGH.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai
Sounds like BS to me. The story is too "A to B to C" structure and I don't believe anybody currently knows this much about the production. Big nope from me. Sounds like a fairy tale or even a "fake leak" - they always address stupid Clone Wars content somehow. It's just a tie-in with the knife and all that. Super fake lmao.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Wow just wow... you can see TCW influence in the movie

@gemini

ding ding ding... you were correct.. too many cooks in the kitchen..
I don't trust Iger's instincts.. profit first and foremost

Can't wait Terrio to explain us that *actually* Rey is going to live with Finn and Poe or going on merry adventures all over the Galaxy to flex her yellow lightsaber or setting up new Jedi Academy

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai

Wow just wow... you can see TCW influence in the movie

@gemini

ding ding ding... you were correct.. too many cooks in the kitchen..
I don't trust Iger's instincts.. profit first and foremost

@spacebaby45678

One day,  I'm sure it will all come out what the original plan was meant to be. There are echoes of it in the final product. Just whispers and empty echoes now.

They replaced obis saber with leias, which looks like his

Dagger is still there. Kenobi wields the dagger of mortis.

Obi reaches rey first when she has her lion king moment looking at the stars.

Tatooine was supposed to be about Kenobi and Skywalker together.

Twin suns was meant to be them both  ot palp and a droid.

it's like the marketing did not catch up you have them  both in the twin suns twice and rey kenobi all over it

Its Kenobi all over it. Even the poster is Kenobis heroism to free the Skywalker

Leia on tatooine looking at Rey Palpatine in the garb she wore in the Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope hologram

God f****ing damn it.

Studios. Ruin. Visions.

They ruined Golden Compass

special_cases wrote:

Can't wait Terrio to explain us that *actually* Rey is going to live with Finn and Poe or going on merry adventures all over the Galaxy to flex her yellow lightsaber or setting up new Jedi Academy

@special_cases

special_cases wrote:

Can't wait Terrio to explain us that *actually* Rey is going to live with Finn and Poe or going on merry adventures all over the Galaxy to flex her yellow lightsaber or setting up new Jedi Academy

@special_cases

What's the soundtrack title and what debates?

@nickandnora The track that plays while Rey on Tatooine is called "A New Home". Romain said that it will settle the debate (because a lot of people don't know the title) but people who saw new Terrio interview are implying that "it will be reversed".

Gemini wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

vinventure12 wrote:And is anyone else feeling like a clown for putting time and research and writing beautiful theories and meta? Also trying to figure out the symbolism the directors were putting into the movies so we can pick up on foreshadowing and where the story was going to go? I think that's why some of us are pointing to our gut feelings and believing that the things we saw in the movies were pointing it toward going this way in the story. But there was no plan! I feel like an idiot for thinking there ever was. The symbolism was pointless, foreshadowing was just them creating pretty visuals and trying their hand at character development. I should just buy a big red clown nose and walk around wearing it for the rest of my life.

@vinventure12

I am def full clown



But alas.. I learned so much ... it was all worth it..

@spacebaby45678

Ditto.

But I've learned severl valuable lessons as a writer and filmmaker.

Stick with your gut ideas, dont go in wild directions to stay ahead of people, have a solid beginning, middle and end but allow flexibility. Dont have too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. Have a freaking plan and stick to it lol.

@Gemini

And don't cater to violent nitwits who wouldn't understand the source material even if you sat their behinds down and read a manifesto about your work and don't ever think about pleasing everyone because, guess what? You never will and will often just piss everyone off.

Despite reylo's being vocal on social media women are not the main target for the saga...

opening day

The Rise of Skywalker (2019): "Updated PostTrak for Skywalker shows guys over 25 (43%) in attendance followed by men under 25 (24%), females 25+ (22%), and females under 25 (10%)." (audience 67% men, 32% women)

The Last Jedi (2019): "Opening day demographics show the film played to an audience that was 58% male vs. 43% female and of that audience 37% was 25 years old or under."

This. JJ has made it very clear that he wanted TFA to be as open as possible and he had no idea that he would be contacted to write the last film. He WANTED Rian to choose where to go. He has said so countless times. He wasn't hired to write a whole story that Rian randomly trashed - Rian actually addresses most of TFA's mysteries and decisions whether you like the way it handles them or not. It also seems as though Rey Palpatine was probably always JJ's fan favourite from the beginning. Rey is a Palpatine because (as JJ/Terrio said) they wanted her to have present conflict with the villain, and that villain, in their minds, had to be Emperor Palpatine even if he had to be resurrected via some of the dumbest and most laughable decisions in all of SW.

Rian, on the other hand, is on record for saying that he wanted to create a "mess" for the next writer. What did JJ do with that mess? He covered it up with his own far more disastrous mess and then skipped around telling people that he was honouring TLJ, that he appreciated Rian's casting in Kelly Marie Tran, that he could NEVER cave to the toxic and vitriolic fans, etc. ad infinitum. Defending JJ while disregarding real things that he has said in order to throw Rian Johnson under the bus again for "Rey Random" is just... I have no words.[/quote]
@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm not entering into the debate about who did better/worse or should have directed the entire trilogy. I personally felt more fun watching TFA and TROS than TLJ during the first viewing. That being said, I praise Rian for having the gut to bring characters in directons we didn't expect even if it felt unsettling, especially Luke and Kylo. I bet that few Reylos expected Kylo to go darker by the end of TLJ and behaving like a messy teenager in front of Luke, which is one of the main reason why I felt truly gutted coming out from the theaters. From a certain POV, J.J. also chose an unexpected direction for his arc in TROS. It was really not easy to reconcile the idea of Kylo behaving like an a** with Rey during the first half of the movie and make the kiss acceptable for the GA during the second half. That's one of the things that work very well thanks to the the DS sequence.

I honestly believe more and more that Rey Kenobi was the first choice. @Gemini in particular apparently got the theory of the two crossed saber right. Retrospectively, it's a fact that Obi-Wan is the one who reached out to Rey during the vision instead of Anakin and Gem rightfully pointed out that Kylo had a second saber in hand that looked like Obi-Wan. Now, unless someone from DLF  brings us some tea, we'll probably never know what was the original plan. Except for a specific moment where Rey indeed has a similar fighting move like Palpatine, nothing seems to point in that direction. However, there was definitely a clue of some hidden connection between Palpatine, Kylo & Rey and the idea that Luke & Leia felt who Rey ain't shocking given their reaction the first time they see her.

I think that the major problem they had is indeed that TLJ didn't answer enough questions while creating a big mess. That's always been my major problem with that movie: I came out from the longest SW movie practically learning nothing that made the story going forward except for the Force Bond. It's like TLJ opened new questions although there were already a lot of pending questions in TFA. So I guess that J.J. and Terrio both were in front of a massive task, which was answering all these questions, binding the franchise alltogether and giving enough space for subplots like in any SW movie. 2 hours left were definitely too short to achieve that, thus the impression that there were massive cuts in the editing room and still the movie doesn't let you pause. So I guess that they went along with the most practical option in term of timing while giving the heroine a connection with the villain, which would have been much more challengin i.e. with Rey Kenobi because it would have required to reveal the audience that Obi-Wan broke the Jedi code too, find a way to connect Rey's story to the villain and justify that a Kenobi ultimately takes down  the Sith and why a Kenobi would have such a raw powah within. In term of time, it would have taken a good part of the movie to explain all of this because so few was explained previously. Personally, I have no problem with the idea of Rey Palpatine being to the Skywalker what Obi-Wan Kenobi was to them in the past and being to Ben what Padme was to Anakin. After all, I always kept in mind that parallels were maybe not such a strong indication of a lineage but possibly of a role. It's just too bad that the idea was executed poorly while never explaining why the Force chose Shmi Skywalker and why Palpatine kept targetting Skywalkers.

@reylo1992

Thanks babe

nickandnora wrote:

special_cases wrote:

Can't wait Terrio to explain us that *actually* Rey is going to live with Finn and Poe or going on merry adventures all over the Galaxy to flex her yellow lightsaber or setting up new Jedi Academy

@special_cases

special_cases wrote:

Can't wait Terrio to explain us that *actually* Rey is going to live with Finn and Poe or going on merry adventures all over the Galaxy to flex her yellow lightsaber or setting up new Jedi Academy

@special_cases

What's the soundtrack title and what debates?

@nickandnora

A new home



On side note, does someone remembers if Rey says something particular about it before going to Tatooine? Looks like she is indeed going to settle here.

I had to take a break from all of this the last few days because it was upsetting me so much. Read along some but I had to stop talking about it, I kept getting so depressed. Leave it to JJ to drive me nuts enough to want to say something again. I knew it would be worse when he started talking. In my limited experience with him, it almost always gets worse when he starts talking. That’s when you realize that he is, artistically speaking, a ship without an anchor. He throws a bunch of “cool” mysteries and ideas out in to the ether because he wants people to talk and think, not because he himself has many (if any) answers or even thoughts at all. He’s like the filmmaking equivalent of whoever the people are who draw or paint Rohrscarch ink blot tests for psychology. They are just creating the image for others to project meaning on to, and not knowing what it actually is. I personally loathe this style of movies and films. I prefer a clear narrative, with some twists along the way, and some things left up to interpretation, but not major points.

For me, I left TFA thinking she wasn’t related to anyone. Frankly I didn’t even think about her parentage at all beyond wondering why they abandoned her. When I found out after the fact that Obi-Wan spoke to her, I liked the idea of them being related if she had to be related to anyone, because I loved the PT so much, including the Anakin and Obi-Wan relationship. Seeing their broken bond mended through Kylo and Rey would have been nice. But then TLJ happened, and she was Nobody. I was okay with that, especially since it was what I thought to begin with. What JJ is going on about about they could have been SIBLINGS is just what the heck. Especially since Daisy said a few years back she always knew and she wasn’t a Solo, obviously. I’m just kind of baffled at this point. I don’t know if the man is just forgetful or there is straight up dishonesty going on to try and do damage control because they see the disaster on their doorstep. Well tough luck buttercups, that’s what you get for 1. Having little to no plan 2. Not having at least one writer involved in all three films and 3. Having no spine to pick an angle rather than throwing bone fragments to everyone like we’re dogs. 

If Project Luminous is about what it sounds like, Force ghosts, that’s actually good that Ben isn’t part of it. They are seemingly choosing not to show him as one, so the question is why? Who knows what JJ will say if someone asks him, but mercifully from this point, the character is no longer at his mercy.

I don’t know if this is a controversial idea among the Reylo fandom or not since I only post here, but you know what I will dream to see one day? A movie about Ben, focused on him. Not focused on Rey trying to bring him back (although it could be shown early on that she wants to/has tried to), but showing him trying to get back. With a decent writer who cares about the character, that would solve the problem of him not having focus or even screen time. It could be an in depth story in to his character. Then the end could show him reuniting with Rey. Would also solve the problem of Daisy not wanting to play the character again for now (she says that now, but give it a few years). Basically think Dead Men Tell No Tales with the focus on Will and him getting himself back to the living, not his son doing it. And Elizabeth shows up at the end and they are reunited. Keira Knightly didn’t want to do POTC any more either, swore up and down she wouldn’t, but there she was in the end. I’ve seen three movies told from Rey’s POV. I would like to see one (or even a short D+ show ala the Obi-Wan series) story told from Ben’s.

Do I think it will even happen? I feel very unhopeful and doubtful. I hope if they wrote a good story, and enough time passed that Adam would do it. I just don’t know if Disney would step away from their blind arrogance that to tell other stories the bloodline had to end in order for them to do it. Regardless of that, the only commentary I wish to hear at this point is Adam’s. Was he the writer, director or producer? No. But he was the one consistency in the character’s journey, and I am far more interested in what he was trying to convey and how he interpreted it all (and thus how he played it) than anything JJ or Terrio has to contribute.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai
Sounds like BS to me. The story is too "A to B to C" structure and I don't believe anybody currently knows this much about the production. Big nope from me. Sounds like a fairy tale or even a "fake leak" - they always address stupid Clone Wars content somehow. It's just a tie-in with the knife and all that. Super fake lmao.

@FrolickingFizzgig

All the leaks turned out to be true. Would not be surprised if Bad Robot deliberately leaked. Then why are we surprised the damage control is leaking also?

spacebaby45678 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Wonder if there’s any truth to this... would make sense to me.

@Cowgirlsamurai
Sounds like BS to me. The story is too "A to B to C" structure and I don't believe anybody currently knows this much about the production. Big nope from me. Sounds like a fairy tale or even a "fake leak" - they always address stupid Clone Wars content somehow. It's just a tie-in with the knife and all that. Super fake lmao.

@FrolickingFizzgig

All the leaks turned out to be true. Would not be surprised if Bad Robot deliberately leaked. Then why are we surprised the damage control is leaking also?

@spacebaby45678

Why is it things other people might like are called "stupid" and its all ok..but me saying I dont like TLJ and its repercussions with no nasty comments gets ripped up for it?

I probably shouldnt have mentioned the card, I said it was a nice idea though, RJ is getting a lot of unnecessary hatred and scape goated.

Worst thing is.....
No matter what we say and do it's over.
JJ finished the saga. And ruined it.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Worst thing is.....
No matter what we say and do it's over.
JJ finished the saga. And ruined it.

@motherofpearl1

Yes, he and the studio did.

Does Kathleen Kennedy deserve any credit or blame?

Libra Vibora wrote:

Gemini wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

vinventure12 wrote:And is anyone else feeling like a clown for putting time and research and writing beautiful theories and meta? Also trying to figure out the symbolism the directors were putting into the movies so we can pick up on foreshadowing and where the story was going to go? I think that's why some of us are pointing to our gut feelings and believing that the things we saw in the movies were pointing it toward going this way in the story. But there was no plan! I feel like an idiot for thinking there ever was. The symbolism was pointless, foreshadowing was just them creating pretty visuals and trying their hand at character development. I should just buy a big red clown nose and walk around wearing it for the rest of my life.

@vinventure12

I am def full clown



But alas.. I learned so much ... it was all worth it..

@spacebaby45678

Ditto.

But I've learned severl valuable lessons as a writer and filmmaker.

Stick with your gut ideas, dont go in wild directions to stay ahead of people, have a solid beginning, middle and end but allow flexibility. Dont have too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. Have a freaking plan and stick to it lol.

@Gemini

And don't cater to violent nitwits who wouldn't understand the source material even if you sat their behinds down and read a manifesto about your work and don't ever think about pleasing everyone because, guess what? You never will and will often just piss everyone off.

@Libra Vibora

Yep, they tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one but a few loud minorities who seemingly "represent the general audience"

Actually, even they are ranting about it on YouTube.

Worst thing is.....
No matter what we say and do it's over.
JJ finished the saga. And ruined it.

@motherofpearl1
I know Disney enough to know nothing is really ever over in their properties if they see a money making opportunity down the line. They want quick influxes of major cash, and they want it regularly. You also have Iger leaving in two years, and who knows what the new CEO will push in terms of films. But I am with all of you who said that if continuing the Saga ever happened and it ended up only being the adventures of Rey, Finn, and Poe or some combination of the three, count me the heck out. If Ben was involved, I would pay attention. Otherwise, no thank you.

The Saga as we knew it is definitely over. That’s one thing I will never understand nor excuse. Disney and JJ had the chance RIGHT THERE to make a film with Carrie, Harrison, and Mark, and they threw it aside, not even bothering to think about what could happen, seeing as they were all advancing in age. As upset as I am about Ben, and as little as I care about the OT, I still think that’s ultimately the biggest creative malpractice of the whole ST and the entire Saga.

In terms of Rian, it is some amazing level of arrogance for JJ and Disney in general to try and throw Rian under the bus for their own mess in TROS. It is not his fault that 1. He made a movie THEY signed off on and 2. They couldn’t come up with a cohesive or at least well written ending. That’s all on them.

It’s also a really bizarre hill to take a last stand on, because critically, Rian is loved and JJ is, well, JJ. I personally lay some of the blame for TROS at the critics’ feet too due to their incessant drooling over TFA, and not calling it out more for the copycat retread nostalgia fest aspects of it.

@spacebaby45678 Absolutely. She is ultimately one step from the top, and she failed at her job, again. I am not sure if it’s true or not that she pushed for a delay longer than from May 19 to Dec 19. If she did, that was the right call. The fact that Iger still wanted it to come out in May despite the director change says it all about him really. He just wanted the product cranked out and to get it over with, rather than treating it with care or committing to quality. Personally, I will be thrilled when he’s finally gone, and I wouldn’t mind one bit seeing KK booted out the door either.