Official TROS Spoilers discussion

LadyHa wrote:I watched it. I am having trouble taking it seriously. You know, as “art”. I know there’s an unanswerable philosophical debate over whether pop culture is art. But, I like to think it is. Usually.

Over the past few years, I found myself getting tired of having reactionary takes on films. I decided to challenge myself to watch films with a bit more objectivity - to try to not always let my knee-jerk opinions or aesthetic preferences always reside at the forefront of my viewing experience. (This decision was in no small part exacerbated by paying too much attention to angry TLJ discourse.) Mostly, this has been a good thing! I’ve convinced myself to sit through some interesting films that I previously might have dismissed as boring, sexist, or loud. If I find myself not enjoying something, I try to focus on what might be cool about the camerawork, the costumes, the music, etc.

Unfortunately, this strategy is not working with TROS. I can barely find the creativity in it. It’s just a mashup of recycled lines. A pastiche of recycled scenarios. A zombie of a moving picture.

Even the music is a cut and paste job. It has so many callbacks it is required to frantically punctuate!

I was looking forward to reading everyone’s myth & folklore analyses about this film, like with the last two. But, instead I just seem to want to partake in the cathartic and speculative ranting. For example, WTH went on inside DisneyLucasFilm this past year? Was JJ given a laundry list of story points he absolutely had to hit? What could have been if there were more women writers in the room?

@LadyHa

Yes, I like to think that pop culture is art, because any form of expression, bad or not, is art. When Scorsese started the discussion about MCU movies I didn't agree with him, it sounded very snobbish IMO (and a bit hypocrite, since he works with big corporations). After TROS I'm starting to think more about the implications of having big corporations with all the control upon pop culture, since their main target is to make money. From what I see, JJ is not a very artistic director, but I can't help but wonder how much power he had over the final product.

Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Oh, I see.  I thought he was talking about their relationship in TROS.  And I was like, ?????  But it's still ridiculous.  I mean, just watching the way Kylo looked at Rey in TFA screamed that they were NOT siblings.  The more information that comes out, the more it seems like this whole trilogy suffered from extremely poor planning.  Actually, I'm starting to wonder if there was ANY planning at all, or was it just, "Oh, let's make it up as we go along.

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Yuck. Now, I'm really buying into the idea that L. Kasdan, writer of many romantic movies, was the dominant pen behind TFA.

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

Theres only one symbolic  relationship in this saga, if they are like siblings, but the Male and female element also means romance. I dont think he means either or.

"You were my brother Anakin"

LadyHa wrote:

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Yuck. Now, I'm really buying into the idea that L. Kasdan, writer of many romantic movies, was the dominant pen behind TFA.

@LadyHa
It has been confirmed several times that Kasdan saw Rey and Kylo in a very specific light (by Rayne Roberts and others). I would also subscribe to the theory that he was the writer behind the Force connection.

(I will point out that JJ clearly says that it's romantic "to him" so I do feel he's being a bit misquoted/misrepresented in this specific instance. He was just talking about how their bond is complicated and has many layers).

loversinthestorm wrote:I know the main opinion is jj and kk wanted to kill Ben but I keep going back to that Interview where one of then says they had to change something (maybe Bob Iger or Disney asked them) because even if they did not want it, the Skywalker saga had to end.

@loversinthestorm

Technically, the Skywalker saga will never end because JJ/KK didn't allow the Skywalker to rest in peace (The saga will end, the story lives forever yada yada yada). Obviously, LFL don't let Rey take the Skywalker name just for show, they will milk the help out of Rey Skywalker and she will have to give them more Skywalker babies with Palpatine blood. Those  Palwalker babies will be financial nest eggs for LFL.

Atenais wrote:
Yes, I like to think that pop culture is art, because any form of expression, bad or not, is art. When Scorsese started the discussion about MCU movies I didn't agree with him, it sounded very snobbish IMO (and a bit hypocrite, since he works with big corporations). After TROS I'm starting to think more about the implications of having big corporations with all the control upon pop culture, since their main target is to make money. From what I see, JJ is not a very artistic director, but I can't help but wonder how much power he had over the final product.

It's an interesting tension to think about. Many times I've rolled my eyes at the adulation for the male director "auteurs" like Scorsese. And yet, I respect how Rian Johnson seemed to be adamant about maintaining a lot of creative control and I love how cohesive that film is.

-----

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
It has been confirmed several times that Kasdan saw Rey and Kylo in a very specific light (by Rayne Roberts and others). I would also subscribe to the theory that he was the writer behind the Force connection.

(I will point out that JJ clearly says that it's romantic "to him" so I do feel he's being a bit misquoted/misrepresented in this specific instance. He was just talking about how their bond is complicated and has many layers).

I may have missed the Rayne Roberts comments on this - sounds intriguing! I feel like we heard a lot more about the storygroup for the first two films.

And good point, we are kind of focusing on isolated parts of JJ's comments and it does sound like he comes down on the romantic side. And yet, by even mentioning the validity of the possibility of a sibling relationship in TFA, it comes off like he is trying to placate fans who really wanted them to be related.

I think the lack of any comments from the story group and the fact that multiple members of the story group have ghosted or have pinned Tweets explaining that they didn't work on TROS speaks for itself. The plot holes and lack of cohesion, the fact that half the film seems to have been left on the editing room floor and the very real comments from the premiere party that employees were disappointed with the film/Rey Palpatine are also a huge indication. Something very, very bad was going on within LucasFilm the past couple of years.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:the very real comments from the premiere party that employees were disappointed with the film/Rey Palpatine are also a huge indication. Something very, very bad was going on within LucasFilm the past couple of years.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I didn't hear about this, they actually voiced their issues publicly ?

Kyla Ren wrote:

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Oh, I see.  I thought he was talking about their relationship in TROS.  And I was like, ?????  But it's still ridiculous.  I mean, just watching the way Kylo looked at Rey in TFA screamed that they were NOT siblings.  The more information that comes out, the more it seems like this whole trilogy suffered from extremely poor planning.  Actually, I'm starting to wonder if there was ANY planning at all, or was it just, "Oh, let's make it up as we go along.

@Kyla Ren

""I had some gut instincts about where the story would have gone" - JJ Abrams

When asked about where the story was supposed to end.

It indicates he knew what was what and where he wanted it to go when making it.

I remember reading her lineage was meant to be revealed in 7, but it got saved. I'm trying to find the old article.

I also remember someone in the production saying you should clearly see where the story is heading by the end of TFA

So he knew who she was meant to be at the time, which is why I think he means their bond is complex and sibling like but romantic. Not literal siblings imo. They are like twins of the force, yin yang.

He also said Reys patents are not in TFA. Not siblings.

I just saw the movie and omg was that boring and forgettable. Everything the reviews pointed out was worse than I expected. The pacing is crazy, they let maybe 2 scenes breathe. The dialogue was so bad, it was embarrassing at times. I can't think of really memorable line that's going to stand out tbh. There's way too much exposition, I really feel like most of the dialogue is exposition. The fanservice was eye roll inducing truly, they went way over the top. And yeah absolutely a retcon of TLJ, and a very obvious one.

Trio scenes were so try hard I laughed honestly. You can tell the movie wants you to think they're magical together and this team up is amazing, it's basically desperate to convey that. But it's just empty banter that sometimes is cute but not very memorable at all. The Passana stuff was really lame imo, it truly felt like a video game plot and I thought the chase action sequence was badly shot. The planet where they meet Zorri was better. I liked the bit where they found out Poe was smuggler and Finn and Rey's reaction to it and that's probably the one trio interaction that stood out to me lol. It really wasn't a great idea to have them interact for the first time together in the last movie and then base half the movie on that.

Finn and Poe got a lot of screentime but the war stuff was boring and felt very much irrelevant next to the force story so it felt like filler. I liked Poe better than Finn in this one which is crazy to me because Poe annoys me usually but Oscar was more charismatic and better at selling his lines imo . But I was pissed off about how Finn totally ignored Rose and the regression back to the guy that yells Rey a lot. Idk why that was necessary to have him to it that much, surely there was other ways to convey he worries about her that are less repetitive but maybe JJ thought that was a nice parallel to TFA lol.

Rose was so sidelined, it's unbelievable and shameless pandering. I really think she had like 3 lines. I admire Kelly so much for being so professional and great about promoting this movie.

Tbh I thought the reylo scenes, while the best part of the movie by far, were much weaker than in TLJ and TFA. It's just the lame dialogue. I literally got second hand embarrassment when Kylo did his exposition bit about Rey Palpatine lmao. I liked the idea of him chasing her and wanting to turn her so they can get rid of Palpatine together and Adam totally sold Ben's feelings in every scene. But the scenes themselves were exposition dumps and repetitive "come to the dark side. No!" type of scenes. Even the fight was weaker than previous ones, it seems to me like they went for the prequel type of less grounded style and it didn't always work for me. The first scene that actually made me feel something was one Rey stabs and heals him because it was one of the few allowed to breathe.The kiss scene was perfect, I was totally happy with it and the death played out mess silly than in the clips on line, i didn't feel it was that abrupt.

People weren't kidding about Ben being sidelined imo. He still stole the movie because his story is at the center and interesting but Adam didn't get much to do. He made the best of it and he was really amazing tho. Loved the scene with Han. Even the recycled dialogue was good because I like Ben reliving that moment and choosing differently. Harrison was great too.Ben Solo redeemed didn't say a word but felt like a totally different person and an amazing one. When I heard he had no lines I was upset but honestly it was probably better considering the rest of the dialogue in the movie.

I said it before that I expected to resent Rey but I really didn't. Her storyline about being a Palpatine was so forced I couldn't even take it seriously. Worst part of the movie. They took something that was actually interesting, Rey dealing with her dark side and instead of making it about her very reasonable trauma and the fact that everyone struggles with darkness, it was made to be about her Palpatine genes. At least unlike GoT they didn't end it on your genes do define you and you can't escape them but it's a way inferior theme than what Rey Nobody brought to the table and to Ben's storyline that already was dealing with dark side legacy in a much more natural and earned way. Her scene with Luke was just plain bad imo. From his generic advice, the shade towards TLJ when he catches the saber and his weird looking blue glow thing. Definitely not enough to build Rey Skywalker on at all. Rey could have been an amazing character but that was taken away to push a fan pandering agenda and keep a profitable name around.

The Leia scenes were okay I guess, they did well with making her look natural in scenes with others but the dialogue was a struggle tho Daisy gave it her best for sure.

Palpatine should not have been the final villain imo. His appearance here wasn't good enough at all to justify a total retcon of the OT victory. His dialogue was generic villain, he had no real connection to Rey, you couldn't really feel anything when she fought him and won. The one thing they could really mine was his manipulation of Ben and they don't at all apart from that one line.

It was just a bad movie, I can't believe this was the best they could do

Gemini wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Oh, I see.  I thought he was talking about their relationship in TROS.  And I was like, ?????  But it's still ridiculous.  I mean, just watching the way Kylo looked at Rey in TFA screamed that they were NOT siblings.  The more information that comes out, the more it seems like this whole trilogy suffered from extremely poor planning.  Actually, I'm starting to wonder if there was ANY planning at all, or was it just, "Oh, let's make it up as we go along.

@Kyla Ren

""I had some gut instincts about where the story would have gone" - JJ Abrams

When asked about where the story was supposed to end.

It indicates he knew what was what and where he wanted it to go when making it.

I remember reading her lineage was meant to be revealed in 7, but it got saved. I'm trying to find the old article.

I also remember someone in the production saying you should clearly see where the story is heading by the end of TFA

So he knew who she was meant to be at the time, which is why I think he means their bond is complex and sibling like but romantic. Not literal siblings imo. They are like twins of the force, yin yang.

He also said Reys patents are not in TFA. Not siblings.

@Gemini

I'm curious, aside from Rey not being a Kenobi, do you have any complain about the movie? If J.J. had any idea about how the story was supposed to be, he could have made it in TROS, since he retconned a lot of  what happened in TLJ.

Mila95 wrote:(...) Ben Solo redeemed didn't say a word but felt like a totally different person and an amazing one. When I heard he had no lines I was upset but honestly it was probably better considering the rest of the dialogue in the movie. (...)

@Mila95

I just laughed loud reading your review. We're in the same page. The dialogue, OMG.

Something is up. I was listening to scavenger's hoard podcast, they mentioned that the movie changed Poe's canon backstory set up by the books and comics. I am sure the story group was super thrilled about that....
If true, what a clusterf***. It will be interesting to see what the story group does to fix the conflicting stories.

Poe had a couple of years being a revel fighter but secretly running drugs....

@Atenais

I have a ton of problems with it.

1. The macguffin chasing
2. The pacing
3. The editing and lack of breathing between moments
4. Ben dying and not being resurrected which is what I believe was meant to happen.
5. Palpatine reveal was horrendous, no buld up to it, with kylo just boom, straight there
6. Exposition dump and contrived storytelling
7. Symbolic shots that hold no meaning to anything in the saga or even the story itself.
8. The brand new crap like stupid wayfinders they shoved down our throats rather than continuing what has been introduced in the saga and even the  previous stories like TFA and TLJ. Just continue what you f****ing started theres  no time for a bunch of new objects and characters develop the ones you already have.. biggest peeve!
9. Lando..pointless
10 REG pointless
12. Leias saber and apparently training...pointless, shes a general, just continue with that
13. Palpatine wants her dead..actually no..Alive...kill  me and become me blah fuking blah
14. They could have cut half the exposition crap down with visual story telling but they did  not.

rey09 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:the very real comments from the premiere party that employees were disappointed with the film/Rey Palpatine are also a huge indication. Something very, very bad was going on within LucasFilm the past couple of years.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I didn't hear about this, they actually voiced their issues publicly ?

@rey09

I saw it today. It’s in one of the reviews. And at risk of going full on conspiracy theorist, it does make me wonder if the original source of the information in the leaks (not necessarily the same person who spoke to JediPaxis) wasn’t leaking it to get attention or be vindictive, but to try to save the film by making JJ and co. see how bad it was. 

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalkerpremiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

https://mashable.com/article/rise-skywalker-rey-family-star-wars/

Gemini wrote:@Atenais

I have a ton of problems with it.

1. The macguffin chasing
2. The pacing
3. The editing and lack of breathing between moments
4. Ben dying and not being resurrected which is what I believe was meant to happen.
5. Palpatine reveal was horrendous, no buld up to it, with kylo just boom, straight there
6. Exposition dump and contrived storytelling
7. Symbolic shots that hold no meaning to anything in the saga or even the story itself.
8. The brand new crap like stupid wayfinders they shoved down our throats rather than continuing what has been introduced in the saga and even the  previous stories like TFA and TLJ. Just continue what you f****ing started theres  no time for a bunch of new objects and characters develop the ones you already have.. biggest peeve!
9. Lando..pointless
10 REG pointless
12. Leias saber and apparently training...pointless, shes a general, just continue with that
13. Palpatine wants her dead..actually no..Alive...kill  me and become me blah fuking blah
14. They could have cut half the exposition crap down with visual story telling but they did  not.

@Gemini

Honestly, you're not being nice with a senile guy.

Atenais wrote:

Gemini wrote:@Atenais

I have a ton of problems with it.

1. The macguffin chasing
2. The pacing
3. The editing and lack of breathing between moments
4. Ben dying and not being resurrected which is what I believe was meant to happen.
5. Palpatine reveal was horrendous, no buld up to it, with kylo just boom, straight there
6. Exposition dump and contrived storytelling
7. Symbolic shots that hold no meaning to anything in the saga or even the story itself.
8. The brand new crap like stupid wayfinders they shoved down our throats rather than continuing what has been introduced in the saga and even the  previous stories like TFA and TLJ. Just continue what you f****ing started theres  no time for a bunch of new objects and characters develop the ones you already have.. biggest peeve!
9. Lando..pointless
10 REG pointless
12. Leias saber and apparently training...pointless, shes a general, just continue with that
13. Palpatine wants her dead..actually no..Alive...kill  me and become me blah fuking blah
14. They could have cut half the exposition crap down with visual story telling but they did  not.

@Gemini

Honestly, you're not being nice with a senile guy.

@Atenais

He was just...i cant even. I've never liked palpatine, always hated the cackling, weirdo element.

Gemini wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

rey09 wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:Has everyone seen this?  What is he trying to say?????

https://twitter.com/animepoe/status/1208447831205466112

@Kyla Ren

apparently he was saying that about TFA, and how he leaves it open ended about romantic vs related. Even then he had no idea. The dude sucks big time. Just threw stuff out there and had no idea what he was doing. Garbage.

This is like GOT all over again when D&D said all this s*** about they didn't know anything really. F*** of al em

@rey09

Oh, I see.  I thought he was talking about their relationship in TROS.  And I was like, ?????  But it's still ridiculous.  I mean, just watching the way Kylo looked at Rey in TFA screamed that they were NOT siblings.  The more information that comes out, the more it seems like this whole trilogy suffered from extremely poor planning.  Actually, I'm starting to wonder if there was ANY planning at all, or was it just, "Oh, let's make it up as we go along.

@Kyla Ren

""I had some gut instincts about where the story would have gone" - JJ Abrams

When asked about where the story was supposed to end.

It indicates he knew what was what and where he wanted it to go when making it.

I remember reading her lineage was meant to be revealed in 7, but it got saved. I'm trying to find the old article.

I also remember someone in the production saying you should clearly see where the story is heading by the end of TFA

So he knew who she was meant to be at the time, which is why I think he means their bond is complex and sibling like but romantic. Not literal siblings imo. They are like twins of the force, yin yang.

He also said Reys patents are not in TFA. Not siblings.

@Gemini

I think their bond is definitely complex, I guess I just wouldn't describe it as sibling like.  I guess I'm just kind of shocked by the interview because more and more it sounds like the really didn't have a plan at all and they just threw a bunch of mystery boxes out there to be solved, or not, along the way.  I just don't think that's a good way to make a trilogy.  And I'm also starting to wonder, if Rian hadn't directed TLJ, would we have gotten romantic Reylo?

rey09 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:the very real comments from the premiere party that employees were disappointed with the film/Rey Palpatine are also a huge indication. Something very, very bad was going on within LucasFilm the past couple of years.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I didn't hear about this, they actually voiced their issues publicly ?

@rey09
No, but a reporter talked about discussing the film at the after party and multiple LF employees expressed that they had been upset with Rey Palpatine for months. The article was posted here a few days ago.

What I keep coming back to is that I really feel as though this film was created as a means of LF cutting their losses on the Skywalkers as a result of orders from higher up. It sounds weird but I don't think they expected this film to do well. Perhaps they just knew they wanted to be done with the saga while still feigning reverence for the only thing that matters: the name, which lives on and can be expanded upon in comics and novels if the demand is high enough. They will never have to make more Skywalker films and they can now become a carbon copy of Marvel, except that also won't work for them. Star Wars is a difficult brand to sell unless you make something that captures hearts, and that's exactly what Mandalorian has succeeded in doing.

LucasFilm really does need to take a break and refocus their efforts and come up with a new strategy for their films. Apparently they don't want to make trilogies anymore? Well, I don't know if that's the right choice, but I think they were waiting to be done with TROS in order to begin that and it seems their D+ wings are opening. Still, I no longer believe they have any idea what they want to do with feature blockbusters and I expect we'll begin to hear something about their new "plans" within a few months. TROS is truly a lazy and unsatisfying film, and I would be shocked if the company wasn't fully aware of this when they released it. I really think they just gave up by the end, cut the film the smithereens and tossed it into the world.

Also did they still keep the parents selling Rey bit? Maybe I missed something but they just said that they loved her and wanted to protect her but I'm not getting why leave her with a guy who starved her and treated her horribly. I'm not even sure why retcon Rey's parents into good people who cared, i just don't feel like that was necessary at all and it didn't fit with their actions.

Felt like talking about something I actually liked that I forgot to mention:

I've seen the complaint a few times now (not even on here) that Rey and Ben don't actually say anything to each other from the Death Star onward. They don't say anything to each other in Palpatine's lair (except for Rey saying "Ben") When I read that, and I thought about it in my head to confirm, I was IMPRESSED because I didn't even realize it (and this time, finally, in a good way). I think it's telling of Adam's acting and also the bond that they have with each other that no words were spoken and yet these were the best parts of the film. I liked that, tremendously, and have no issues with it. I mean... the dialogue was not great in other places in the film; why ruin a beautiful, poignant, silent thing, you know?

But now, let me repeat a thing that I DIDN'T like (balance!)

Honestly guys, WHAT was happening in that final battle? I seriously can't remember a connected moment. What were Janna and Finn doing on horses/creatures/whatever? I clearly missed a point where that was significant or introduced. Or I probably didn't *miss* it at the time, but it's getting lost in the mire with everything else. How did Lando get so many ships there? Was everyone just flying around and shooting and hoping it would all end for the best? That's what was happening, right? I guess with no clear target (or wait... WAS there a clear target?) it just becomes a game of outlasting the FO or the FO destroying everyone in the Resistance. It was not visually engaging in the slightest. God, this movie is weird.

I like that, even from watching the clips, I can see the gentle Ben Solo who showed up in TLJ during the hut scene and took off his glove to hold hands with Rey.

I wish I could pay some theatre to put together the best of TRoS so I could watch them on the big screen lol.

Honestly my biggest peeve with it was JJ trying to make an entire new story rather than just using what he had in TFA, he also is lying when he says he was incorporating TLJ into it. Bull s*** he was trying to give RJ a middle finger. Its petty.

He could have createsd a good, decent, simpler and profound story but it has been completely lost in millions.of new objects, people and places.

Yes TLJ has some incredible elements in it as does TFA, JJ should have combined it all, but instead he just botched it all together like some Frankenstein monster.. literally zombies and s***...

JJ you set up a simple theme in TFA, visions through objects. Just use that to your damn advantage. If she finds the thing that stabbed her parents it should show her like a force back. Entire backstory, boom in 3 minutes or less.

This movie should not have had a million new characters,  it should not have jumped to a million different planets. It needed to be more intimate around several characters and the objects which move the plot and explain the plot should have just remained the two damn sabers. But now its just a million objects, new saber and Anakins saber.

.oh how I wish he did not remove that moment where Kylo picks up the second light saber that was originally linked to Rey. Things would be more simple.