Re: ARCHIVE: The Last Jedi: General Discussion - 1

by **Darth Dementor** Sat 26 Mar 2016, 10:03 pm

MeadowofAshes wrote:Force vision/bond/dream kiss. Approx. 47 min in.

@AnneNeville I could see a cliffhanger at the end of Ep. 8 in which Rey is seen departing with Kylo, who has just beaten her in a lightsaber duel and has shared information with her (perhaps about her identity?) the audience is not privy to. We are left to believe she has perhaps joined the Dark Side as well as still wondering who she is, so lots of suspense for the next movie. And yes, her reaction to the imaginary kiss would be priceless!

That ending would be brilliant! I could see Rey being tempted by The Dark Side at key points in the movie. Then when Kylo shows up Rey is overwhelmed by it and runs off with him off her own free will. It would match the somber ending off ESB.

by ISeeAnIsland Sat 26 Mar 2016, 11:50 pm

Darth Dingleberry wrote:I'm probably in the minority on this, but I think there isn't going to be a training montage. There are so many characters and so much going on that the film will have to be very tightly plotted. If we see any training, it will be very short, IMO. And we don't even know yet whether Luke will train Rey at all. We just assume he will...

I'd love to see some trippy Force bond experiences, though.

Now, I realise this is a bold prediction but I personally think that not only will Ren show up on Ahch-To (as has been rumoured, though surprisingly little has been made of that rumour?), he will save Rey from the Knights of Ren (as per the vision), and the two of them will be separated from Luke somehow, ending up on a separate shared quest or survival struggle of their own (Letter Never Sent for two, anyone?).

My reasons for believing this aren't entirely headcanon. There's also:

- the rumour that Adam will be shooting with Daisy in Ireland without Mark, and this shoot will be somehow connected to the lightsaber vision of the Knights of Ren in the rain

- the Kerry shoot has two characters walking and talking, presumably towards the "village" set on Ceann Sibéal in the distance; only two characters, mind

- the area of the "walking and talking" shoot is, I think, located in a spot called Waymont that looks startlingly like the rocky landscape of the vision (I'm not allowed to post links for some reason, but go to www (.) flickr (.) com /photos/davidjherman/22123951578/ and remove the spaces and brackets)

- the rain and lightning in the vision may be a Force storm, which is a phenomenon Tython (which I believe to be the precursor to Ahch-To) is known for, and which would certainly occasion a struggle for survival... not to mention that such a violent phenomenon might be a convenient means of separating Rey from Luke and forcing (pun totes intended) her to become "uncomfortable allies" with Ren

I await news of the Ireland shoots with much eagerness, though not with bated breath, as I suspect these locations will be vigilantly guarded

So, I was thinking about this...

I know that opinion is pretty split on whether the Forceback vision bit where Kylo appears to save Rey (lying on the ground) is a vision from the past or the future. And that there's really no way to tell if he's actually saving Rey or someone else (and she's seeing it from that person's POV).

It's also been pointed out that Kylo appears to have a second lightsaber hitched to his belt in this scene (he's running the guy through with his red saber).

What if it was a future vision...that happens on Ahch-To? Kylo and the KOR face Rey/Luke, Kylo disarms Rey and takes her saber...and then saves her when she's about to be struck down (while unarmed) by one of his KOR?

by Rei of Sunshine Sun 27 Mar 2016, 12:21 am

Im with the Future camp... That force vision showed past present and future all muddled up together... And I'd like to think that instead of fully training with Snoke, Kylo Ren instead runs away, and with the help of his Knights, they find Luke and Rey...

The encounter is not a peaceful one of course, tho Kylo has no intention of hurting Rey... And one of the KOR attempts to hurt Rey, Kylo acts on instinct and stabs the guy...

The FO has tracked them and a bigger scuffle happens and thats when Kylo escapes with Rey and become 'uncomfortable allies'

Or something to that extent

by MeadowofAshes Sun 27 Mar 2016, 1:17 am

Rei of Sunshine wrote:Im with the Future camp... That force vision showed past present and future all muddled up together... And I'd like to think that instead of fully training with Snoke, Kylo Ren instead runs away, and with the help of his Knights, they find Luke and Rey...

The encounter is not a peaceful one of course, tho Kylo has no intention of hurting Rey... And one of the KOR attempts to hurt Rey, Kylo acts on instinct and stabs the guy...

The FO has tracked them and a bigger scuffle happens and thats when Kylo escapes with Rey and become 'uncomfortable allies'

Or something to that extent

Agreed. Sequence of events could go as follows:
1. Rey is on Ahch-To and either has a vision/dream of young Ben Solo or is given info that would evoke compassion for him from Luke. Possible she also has a Dark Side Cave moment in which they kiss and she is both put off and into it.
2. Enter Kylo Ren and his Knights, getting into the scuffle you describe.
3. They escape aboard the MF and have plenty of time for snarky Han/Leia-esque banter and overt sexual tension.
4. The uncomfortable allies receive word of General Leia's near-death and are now set for a rescue mission together.

And now what?? Hm...

by FrolickingFizzgig Sun 27 Mar 2016, 9:43 am

Hidalgo insinuated that Luke and Leia may have a Force Bond, and also said that Leia "Awakened" (whatever that means). I suspect we're getting clarification about what an Awakening really is, because we received nothing of the sort in Episode VII. It was all vague and stuff (probably because JJ wanted people to be able to apply the term "awakening" to many different aspects of the film). Force Awakening (between Ren and Rey), sexual/romantic awakening (also between Ren and Rey), whatever kind of awakening Finn had, etc.

It's interesting to think about what a Force Bond between Luke and Leia could mean.

by AnneNeville Sun 27 Mar 2016, 9:50 am

Darth Rowan wrote:
Darth Dingleberry wrote:I realise this is a bold prediction but I personally think that not only will Ren show up on Ahch-To (as has been rumoured, though surprisingly little has been made of that rumour?), he will save Rey from the Knights of Ren (as per the vision), and the two of them will be separated from Luke somehow, ending up on a separate shared quest or survival struggle of their own (Letter Never Sent for two, anyone?).

My reasons for believing this aren't entirely headcanon. There's also:

- the rumour that Adam will be shooting with Daisy in Ireland without Mark, and this shoot will be somehow connected to the lightsaber vision of the Knights of Ren in the rain

- the Kerry shoot has two characters walking and talking, presumably towards the "village" set on Ceann Sibéal in the distance; only two characters, mind

- the area of the "walking and talking" shoot is, I think, located in a spot called Waymont that looks startlingly like the rocky landscape of the vision (I'm not allowed to post links for some reason, but go to www (.) flickr (.) com /photos/davidjherman/22123951578/ and remove the spaces and brackets)

- the rain and lightning in the vision may be a Force storm, which is a phenomenon Tython (which I believe to be the precursor to Ahch-To) is known for, and which would certainly occasion a struggle for survival... not to mention that such a violent phenomenon might be a convenient means of separating Rey from Luke and forcing (pun totes intended) her to become "uncomfortable allies" with Ren

I await news of the Ireland shoots with much eagerness, though not with bated breath, as I suspect these locations will be vigilantly guarded

5-star post! I hope that you're right. I've thought for a long time that Rey's Force vision shows a moment in the future where Ren will save her from one of his own. And I think that Ren, having seen the island in Rey's mind, will show up on Ahch-To.

What hadn't occurred to me until reading your post was the possibility of Ren and Rey ending up working together in ep VIII on a common quest. I can almost hear their snarky repartee already. The gradual lowering of the shields. The chemistry, the tension...Oh that would be so, so awesome.

I predict "common quest" for IX. VIII will be about how to get them to become unwilling/reluctant (from Rey's POV) allies.

by Mana Sun 27 Mar 2016, 9:51 am

@FrolickingFizzgig
Also, did Luke and Leia have any sort of special experience together that would have facilitated the formation of a force bond?? Maybe they are just hypersensitive to each other because they are related, maybe they force bonded with each other during birth. Birth is a traumatic experience for a baby anyway and Leia and Luke were born together to an emotionally distressed mother who was already dying. Or maybe they could have force bonded in the womb. Because they're twins I think a force bond between them can be explained in many ways. Hopefully we'll get an explanation if force bond is the case... also makes sense if she awakened after coming into contact with Luke...she force bonded with the one that awakened her

by AnneNeville Sun 27 Mar 2016, 9:53 am

Darth Dingleberry wrote:
AnneNeville wrote:Giving Finn a non-Rey love interest may open the doors for people to accuse the creators of sidelining him. As if "the girl" (Rey specifically) must be his bonafide-hero prize.

Alas, I agree. But I've got a good feeling about the Finn & KMT romance, if there's going to be one (and I'm pretty sure there will). I don't know why exactly but I think that dynamic might turn out to be one of the best things about the future episodes. I just really like what I've seen of KMT. I'm a fan of hers already.

I think I already said it in the old thread, but instead of one central romance I can see there being two counterpoint romances, balancing each other. And the best thing would be that those romances would grow organically out of their respective action plots.

One of the reasons why I thought the FinnRey dynamic wasn't getting anywhere romantically was that it was set up as a cutesy rom com dynamic but it didn't have the spark of a good rom com. An excellent rom com dynamic is a thing of beauty. Boyega has the flair for it - he just needs the right partner for that kind of banter.

(Btw, I wonder why those who complain about sidelining the interracial FinnRey romance don't realise that the Finn & KMT romance would actually be more groundbreaking to a lot more people, worldwide.)

I think people are only thinking of what would be groundbreaking from a U.S. standpoint. I think that Finn & KMT would be pretty darn groundbreaking with the Asian market, though, wouldn't it?

by Force22 Sun 27 Mar 2016, 10:13 am

Darth Dingleberry wrote:
AnneNeville wrote:Giving Finn a non-Rey love interest may open the doors for people to accuse the creators of sidelining him. As if "the girl" (Rey specifically) must be his bonafide-hero prize.

Alas, I agree. But I've got a good feeling about the Finn & KMT romance, if there's going to be one (and I'm pretty sure there will). I don't know why exactly but I think that dynamic might turn out to be one of the best things about the future episodes. I just really like what I've seen of KMT. I'm a fan of hers already.

I think I already said it in the old thread, but instead of one central romance I can see there being two counterpoint romances, balancing each other. And the best thing would be that those romances would grow organically out of their respective action plots.

One of the reasons why I thought the FinnRey dynamic wasn't getting anywhere romantically was that it was set up as a cutesy rom com dynamic but it didn't have the spark of a good rom com. An excellent rom com dynamic is a thing of beauty. Boyega has the flair for it - he just needs the right partner for that kind of banter.

(Btw, I wonder why those who complain about sidelining the interracial FinnRey romance don't realise that the Finn & KMT romance would actually be more groundbreaking to a lot more people, worldwide.)

Yes, a Finn and KMT character's romance could have some epic banter! It could be so awesome! I'm actually looking forward to it.
I agree in terms of race a Finn KMTc would be more ground breaking, but people who complain claim that "racists" don't want the black "protagonist" with the white girl. (As if an Asian girl is something lesser... I don't know, it's so racist!!! I'm not going to mention all the comments by FinnRey's on how ugly KMT is, which is not true, she's adorable, anyways...)

by Force22 Sun 27 Mar 2016, 10:19 am

Darth Dingleberry wrote:I'm probably in the minority on this, but I think there isn't going to be a training montage. There are so many characters and so much going on that the film will have to be very tightly plotted. If we see any training, it will be very short, IMO. And we don't even know yet whether Luke will train Rey at all. We just assume he will...

I'd love to see some trippy Force bond experiences, though.

Now, I realise this is a bold prediction but I personally think that not only will Ren show up on Ahch-To (as has been rumoured, though surprisingly little has been made of that rumour?), he will save Rey from the Knights of Ren (as per the vision), and the two of them will be separated from Luke somehow, ending up on a separate shared quest or survival struggle of their own (Letter Never Sent for two, anyone?).

My reasons for believing this aren't entirely headcanon. There's also:

- the rumour that Adam will be shooting with Daisy in Ireland without Mark, and this shoot will be somehow connected to the lightsaber vision of the Knights of Ren in the rain

- the Kerry shoot has two characters walking and talking, presumably towards the "village" set on Ceann Sibéal in the distance; only two characters, mind

- the area of the "walking and talking" shoot is, I think, located in a spot called Waymont that looks startlingly like the rocky landscape of the vision (I'm not allowed to post links for some reason, but go to www (.) flickr (.) com /photos/davidjherman/22123951578/ and remove the spaces and brackets)

- the rain and lightning in the vision may be a Force storm, which is a phenomenon Tython (which I believe to be the precursor to Ahch-To) is known for, and which would certainly occasion a struggle for survival... not to mention that such a violent phenomenon might be a convenient means of separating Rey from Luke and forcing (pun totes intended) her to become "uncomfortable allies" with Ren

I await news of the Ireland shoots with much eagerness, though not with bated breath, as I suspect these locations will be vigilantly guarded

I also don't think there will be a training montage. First, cause it's not Rocky, second, cause that's what people are predicting. I think they want to surprise the audience. My personal headcanon is that the lightsaber or Rey will bring Kylo to Luke's island, and that it is going to be very soon. The movie will have action from the beginning. Now, maybe Kylo is hurt and only the Knights of Ren go? What about that? Kylo shows up at the end. Rey perhaps fights not so well (like she did before "the force"). It would be fun.

Then there's the Leia thing, maybe they'll get together to save her?

by Darth_Awakened Sun 27 Mar 2016, 11:41 am

I am still confused about FB. Being not so familiar with EU stories - my only experience with FB would be from the movies.
ESB - Vader and Luke (force sensitive father and son) - scene on the Falcon while Luke is in fever - Vader is calling him, and Luke answered father...(not only the scene where is clear that Luke accepted Vader as his father - but as well the one where the FB formed between the two? or not?)
Same for Leia - she actually sensed where Luke was - is this FB or not in the movie canon?

by Darth Dingbat Sun 27 Mar 2016, 11:51 am

If the EU is anything to go by, there would be different kinds of Force bonds - some stronger than others. Basically the bonding is similar to the way normal bonds between human beings are forged. Family members bond; teachers and students bond, friends bond, if the relationships are close.

Then there are more mysterious bonds, as in real life. The bond between twins is often something difficult to explain even in real life, so it's not surprising that Luke and Leia would have a strong bond. Sometimes two Force sensitives can mysteriously bond over a shared trauma or another strong experience, for example. Or like Revan and Bastila who bonded over healing.

A bond between two cousins who have grown up apart from each other sounds incredibly lame. I tend to believe the bond between Rey and Ren is something that existed before they met - indeed, I think it led them to meet. A fated bond. If we go with the theory that they are yin and yang, two sides of the same coin, then the mysterious bond could be something like two parts that belong together. Kind of like the concept of twin flames.

I don't think anything like that has been seen in the SW universe yet.

by IoJovi Sun 27 Mar 2016, 11:52 am

I've been wanting to ask you guys what you think about the Reddit rumor of Leia being in a coma or injured in Episode VIII for an unspecified amount of time? It was discussed at length in the rumors thread on JFC.

Personally, I hope it's not true. We already ended with Finn in a coma at the end of VII, and R2D2 for most of the movie to a lesser extent.

If it's true, I hope it's not because they don't know what to do with her character as there is so much potential there of where they could go my mind could go wild.

Out of the original trio, Leia was always my favorite and I hope they do her character justice this time around as well.

by MeadowofAshes Sun 27 Mar 2016, 12:10 pm

Force22 wrote:

I also don't think there will be a training montage. First, cause it's not Rocky, second, cause that's what people are predicting. I think they want to surprise the audience. My personal headcanon is that the lightsaber or Rey will bring Kylo to Luke's island, and that it is going to be very soon. The movie will have action from the beginning. Now, maybe Kylo is hurt and only the Knights of Ren go? What about that? Kylo shows up at the end. Rey perhaps fights not so well (like she did before "the force"). It would be fun.

Then there's the Leia thing, maybe they'll get together to save her?

This brings to mind the Family Guy rendition of ESB and the Rocky training montage. Chris as Luke Skywalker -- "I'm up for this but I'm pretty sure the Dark Side has a better gym."

by Darth_Awakened Sun 27 Mar 2016, 12:14 pm

IoJovi wrote:I've been wanting to ask you guys what you think about the Reddit rumor of Leia being in a coma or injured in Episode VIII for an unspecified amount of time? It was discussed at length in the rumors thread on JFC.

Personally, I hope it's not true. We already ended with Finn in a coma at the end of VII, and R2D2 for most of the movie to a lesser extent.

If it's true, I hope it's not because they don't know what to do with her character as there is so much potential there of where they could go my mind could go wild.

Out of the original trio, Leia was always my favorite and I hope they do her character justice this time around as well.

I do not think it was reddit rumour but MSWs (which it makes a bit more legit).

Well, I think having Leia in coma is not necessarily a bad thing. It falls well with the idea that this trilogy is not about Luke, Leia etc. but new characters..on the other it is the easiest way to bring Luke back from Anch-to, or provoke some reaction from her son.

by IoJovi Sun 27 Mar 2016, 12:50 pm

As long as she's not out of commission long and is used to drive the story forward, I'm okay. I just...would absolutely hate for anything more awful to happen to her character given what she's been through.

Reylo aside, I want Ren's redemption to happen not only for him, but for Leia too. She doesn't deserve this shit!

by Rogue Rey Sun 27 Mar 2016, 7:36 pm

Well Carrie and Gary have been in the UK for a good few weeks now - filming on and off I'd guess, so hopefully she's doing a bit more than having a lie down on set. Very Happy

I want a Kylo redemption for Leia as much as I want it for Kylo.

I strongly dislike it when people go 'oh well, Leia can be Mom to Poe, Rey and Finn now that her nasty evil man-child son has been brutally murdered by the child Leia deserves!' (as in Rey)

OH and what I'd really love to see is more of Kylo Ren's deadpan humour because Adam Driver delivers dry wit/comedy so well. Laughing

by MeadowofAshes Sun 27 Mar 2016, 7:54 pm

Rogue Rey wrote:Well Carrie and Gary have been in the UK for a good few weeks now - filming on and off I'd guess, so hopefully she's doing a bit more than having a lie down on set.

I want a Kylo redemption for Leia as much as I want it for Kylo.

I strongly dislike it when people go 'oh well, Leia can be Mom to Poe, Rey and Finn now that her nasty evil man-child son has been brutally murdered by the child Leia deserves!' (as in Rey)

OH and what I'd really love to see is more of Kylo Ren's deadpan humour because Adam Driver delivers dry wit/comedy so well.

Hell yes to the deadpan humor! I've been saying all along I'm certain he's got his mother's dry sense of humor. I imagine he'd absolutely infuriate Rey in the Revan/Bastila way. Like he's such a frustrating snarky ass but she can't help but be drawn to him.

by Rogue Rey Sun 27 Mar 2016, 8:15 pm

MeadowofAshes wrote:
Rogue Rey wrote:Well Carrie and Gary have been in the UK for a good few weeks now - filming on and off I'd guess, so hopefully she's doing a bit more than having a lie down on set.

I want a Kylo redemption for Leia as much as I want it for Kylo.

I strongly dislike it when people go 'oh well, Leia can be Mom to Poe, Rey and Finn now that her nasty evil man-child son has been brutally murdered by the child Leia deserves!' (as in Rey)

OH and what I'd really love to see is more of Kylo Ren's deadpan humour because Adam Driver delivers dry wit/comedy so well.

Hell yes to the deadpan humor! I've been saying all along I'm certain he's got his mother's dry sense of humor. I imagine he'd absolutely infuriate Rey in the Revan/Bastila way. Like he's such a frustrating snarky ass but she can't help but be drawn to him.

and I don't even know who Revan/Bastila are?!! Embarassed

might have to do some homework!!! Razz

Things my little shipper heart wants to see in Eps VII & IX that will totally fly in the face of the anti's:

Kylo Ren redeemed through a heroic action and live

Rey to be revealed to be half Palpatine and half Kenobi and NOT a Skywalker

Rey to give Finn a big neon sign of the word 'Friendzoned'

Rey to snog the face off Kylo Ren by her own choice

C3PO to be put for scrap metal for good this time

Sorry I've taken my glasses off!!!

by MeadowofAshes Sun 27 Mar 2016, 8:18 pm

@Rogue Rey You definitely have homework to do!! They are from Knights of the Old Republic which is now EU. Google their images and see if they remind you of anyone...

by Rogue Rey Sun 27 Mar 2016, 8:21 pm

MeadowofAshes wrote:@Rogue Rey You definitely have homework to do!! They are from Knights of the Old Republic which is now EU. Google their images and see if they remind you of anyone...

Oh yeah totally seeing it Very Happy

by MeadowofAshes Sun 27 Mar 2016, 8:23 pm

Rogue Rey wrote:
MeadowofAshes wrote:@Rogue Rey You definitely have homework to do!! They are from Knights of the Old Republic which is now EU. Google their images and see if they remind you of anyone...

Oh yeah totally seeing it

And they have a Force Bond. And they are a Jedi/Sith couple. Very Happy

by Mana Sun 27 Mar 2016, 8:30 pm

the Epicness of Reylo:
- First ever dark side/light side pairing in a Star Wars movie
-First ever pairing in a Star Wars movie where both are force sensitive
- Their bond has the potential to redefine the workings of the force and also the Jedi
-its actually relevant to the story and is transformative....

and much much more

by Kylo Ren's 8-Pack Sun 27 Mar 2016, 10:09 pm

I don't see a onscreen kiss coming anytime soon..but I DO see some type of intimate moment of touch between the two characters.

We have talked recently elsewhere about how both of these characters seem to each crave companionship in some form.
Wether it be feeling cared for, wanted, or simply being together with someone they can relate to and not be alone.
Both have been isolated for so long...Rey on Jakku not by her own hand, and Kylo involved with the First Order due to his own choices.
Both are rather cut off from the rest of the world.
Now they are together, or have been 'introduced', and there are definitely sparks flying between them.
Neither of them have been the same since...each having a tremendous effect on the other in many respects.

In the next chapter, or perhaps the next one after that, at some point I am hoping we see a visual representation of Rey finally accepting Kylo's apparent fascination and admiration of her.
It would also seem possible that at some point in the future we will see a somewhat moving scene of Rey or Kylo actually touching the other in a meaningful or emotionally powerful way that suits the story at that moment.
Most would assume a kiss, but personally I would find this far more meaningful - Rey touches his face, on that scar.
Touch him right where Han did before he fell to his death.
Cut to close ups of both characters reactions...Rey with a look of sympathy or concern on her face, reaching out to touch his cheek and Ben with those sad eyes showing that his torn soul is finally being healed.

Wow.....

I would find a moment like that far more romantic and emotional then the overdone 'kiss'.
Perhaps it's just me...but I would love to see a scene like this play out within the context of a exchange of dialog.

Sizzling!

-

by **Darth Dementor** Sun 27 Mar 2016, 10:18 pm

Rei of Sunshine wrote:Im with the Future camp... That force vision showed past present and future all muddled up together... And I'd like to think that instead of fully training with Snoke, Kylo Ren instead runs away, and with the help of his Knights, they find Luke and Rey...

The encounter is not a peaceful one of course, tho Kylo has no intention of hurting Rey... And one of the KOR attempts to hurt Rey, Kylo acts on instinct and stabs the guy...

The FO has tracked them and a bigger scuffle happens and thats when Kylo escapes with Rey and become 'uncomfortable allies'

Or something to that extent

I'm in the future vision camp too. Each time Kylo was in the vision he reacted to her; ie followed and pursued her. Kylo is HER future so it would be most fitting that both his parts in the vision are future related.

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