Rian's New Rules

Someone earlier (I forget who, so my apologies) had mentioned time travel. I'm going to go way out here on a limb, so please bear with me. What if in the end, Rey somehow, somewhere finds the ability to prevent Ben Solo's fall in the first place? The end result would've only be Ben staying on the side of light, but it would mean Han also lives. I know it's far fetched, but I found it to be an interesting thought, nonetheless.

Mind reading, while more of a focus in this trilogy, isn't really new. Vader did it to Luke, and vice versa. Luke could also communicate with Leia over a long distance. I don't doubt we'll have more than one scene with Rey and Kylo communicating in the same way (pretty much sealing the Force bond theory, even if they don't call it that).

I agree with it being about the Force and the Old Jedi, maybe stuff about Dark Siders too.

IoJovi wrote:Someone earlier (I forget who, so my apologies) had mentioned time travel.  I'm going to go way out here on a limb, so please bear with me.  What if in the end, Rey somehow, somewhere finds the ability to prevent Ben Solo's fall in the first place?  The end result would've only be Ben staying on the side of light, but it would mean Han also lives.  I know it's far fetched, but I found it to be an interesting thought, nonetheless.  

Mind reading, while more of a focus in this trilogy, isn't really new.  Vader did it to Luke, and vice versa.  Luke could also communicate with Leia over a long distance.  I don't doubt we'll have more than one scene with Rey and Kylo communicating in the same way (pretty much sealing the Force bond theory, even if they don't call it that).  

@IoJovi

Actually @panki will need to get in here to confirm this, but I know that along with an orb that followed and favored Han Solo in the comics (that arguably might be Ben's preborn soul), Han had to help some beings get to another dimension or plane. I didn't read it, but @panki did.

Einstein said that time travel was theoretically possible and I think that theory was connected with the theory of different planes of existence.

Multiple planes of existence arguably already exist in this universe because the force ghosts need to go someplace.  So are there parallel lives on different planes too? Can Rey and Kylo tap into that and change history?

There is definitely a circle of life aspect to this quote, showing that through the force all are connected. It makes no distinction between dark and light,  nor does it define what "life" or "living" is. Just because you have moved on to the next plane, and people in your own plane think you are dead, doesn't mean you are not living and it does not mean you have disconnected from the rest. You are just living in the next plane.

Oh wow, I just had a crazy thought... Adam talked about "what your definition of living is." Could Kylo be dead in one era but living in another? Does the first Jedi temple help a person travel to another plane? And if so, is the evil in the UR another plane? Does Kylo willingly travel to this or accidentally ends up there?

I know this is all crazy speculation,  but stuff like this would be "weird" and "change the rules."

That reminds me of a theory I saw about magnetism in areas like national forests, where lots of people disappear and reappear places they shouldn't be able to get with no memory, of it as being people who actually warped into another dimension for awhile and then warped back. It also tied in with the UFO and Bigfoot/Cryptid sightings as being travelers from the other side and that's why they're so hard to find, they're only here for a limited time. It's odd, but if you listen to it, it actually makes sense in an odd, out there way.

What I mean by that is, I could see ideas like that working.

@SoloSideCousin @Helix
In that case, maybe Rey didn't have a force vision when she touched Anakin's lightsaber but she time traveled briefly or went to another plane instead.
EDIT: It would also explain why Kylo seemed to look in her direction in the rain scene (because she was physically there).

Moonlight13 wrote:@SoloSideCousin @Helix
In that case, maybe Rey didn't have a force vision when she touched Anakin's lightsaber but she time traveled briefly or went to another plane instead.

@Moonlight13

Oh wow! I was just brainstorming, so I didn't even think about the Forceback... but if she was somehow temporarily transported, even in an instantaneous, maybe even semi-corporeal or even just spiritual form, could that be why Kylo looked at her in the rain? Is that how she knows him? Have they been doing some level of transportation for years? I think that there is something in one of the novelization that indicates she felt a familiar visiting presence in her room. Does anybody remember that? I have hard copies so I would need to dig them out. Does anyone have a digital copy handy? If something like that happened, that could be pretty mind blowing if done well. Also, if something like that did happen,  I don't think they would have had good control on it. It would be the Force acting to push them together. Further, if something like this were to turn out, they would have an easier time portraying the "force bond/mysterious connection".

Edit: @Moonlight13, I was writing the "looked at her part at the same time as you, lol.

The Northern Californian in me is now imagining that the first Jedi Temple is like the Mystery Spot. Which would make sense in that Chewie sort of looks like a Sasquatch!



If it's a portal type scenario, then maybe Ben really is like Edmund Penvasie with Snoke as a White Witch type character.

If it worked that way, maybe that's why Kylo has his mask on at 'SKB' in the sequence, it's just a random snow planet?

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Edit: @Moonlight13,  I was writing the "looked at her part at the same time as you, lol.

@SoloSideCousin
Maybe we are the ones who have a force bond.    

snufkin wrote:The Northern Californian in me is now imagining that the first Jedi Temple is like the Mystery Spot. Which would make sense in that Chewie sort of looks like a Sasquatch!



If it's a portal type scenario, then maybe Ben really is like Edmund Penvasie with Snoke as a White Witch type character.

@snufkin

OMG! Yes! @panki said something about portals where armies could come from in the comics, like a LOTR thing. I can't remember,  but she will.

So is Jakku a portal? That Yupe dude was trying to do something in Empire's End. Was it just to kill the life force of Jakku? But he thought he was bringing the emperor back. If hypothetically you assume no one really dies *and* there are portals between planes, then who knows who could come back through? It would make sense for there to be hell planes and more heavenly planes.  And remember Rey had orbs all around her in that shareholders footage.

Edit: @Moonlight13, it sure seems like it!!!!

Oh my God.

I'm reading this topic and I know it all sounds crazy and too "out there", but it actually makes a lot of sense?

I can't believe I'm honestly considering time travel as a valid plot device for Star Wars

Hmmmm, they did say they were going to make "some weird thing", and isn't Looper about time travel?

Ha, well there are a lot of New Agey beliefs here about portals and whatnot. Like how Bigfoot is supposedly buddies with a group of ancient space aliens who travel to and from this plane from their secret space port that's at top of an ancient volcano. So just think of the Wardrobe as the portal between Narnia and England - except that it'd be the first Jedi Temple instead of a piece of furniture from Ikea.

If you watch the Simpsons, they make fun of the Mystery Spot by saying that it's either a gateway people use to travel outside of their bodies to another dimension. Or that it's just the fumes of the paint job that makes them hallucinate and get nauseous.

Piper Maru wrote:Oh my God.

I'm reading this topic and I know it all sounds crazy and too "out there", but it actually makes a lot of sense?

I can't believe I'm honestly considering time travel as a valid plot device for Star Wars

@Piper Maru

I know, lol!!!! It just took off from what @iojovi said and the quote ... and then all these kinda crazy, but also really exciting ideas took off with everybody! Some of it really does "feel" right, yet you're like "It's SW ... but still ..."

ReyofLightSide wrote:Hmmmm, they did say they were going to make "some weird thing", and isn't Looper about time travel?

@ReyofLightSide
Well, Adam did say:

He created new rules for the “Star Wars” universe and balanced the familiar and unfamiliar very adeptly while respecting that his audience can handle ambiguity. Which you can see in his previous films.

So maybe there is something similar to his previous movies in TLJ.

Looking at Rian's previous movies, I don't know what else it could be but Looper.

Clearly if we have time travel, this means the theory of Snoke being Kylo from the future is happening

But seriously, I am trying to think how it could all work. Will Rey just keep going back and see all of these key things in Ben's past?

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:Oh my God.

I'm reading this topic and I know it all sounds crazy and too "out there", but it actually makes a lot of sense?

I can't believe I'm honestly considering time travel as a valid plot device for Star Wars

@Piper Maru

I know, lol!!!! It just took off from what @iojovi said and the quote ... and then all these kinda crazy, but also really exciting ideas took off with everybody! Some of it really does "feel" right, yet you're like "It's SW ... but still ..."

@SoloSideCousin

And here I was expecting to log into this thread again and see the general consensus being, nahhh that's a bit much.  

I didn't even think about the fact the plot of Looper revolved around time travel.  I figured it was another vision Rey had when she fell onto that rock in the trailer (or my favorite headcanon - saw Kylo Ren coming out of the 'fresher).  What if she's actually time traveling, actually seeing first hand what happened to Ben when he fell? If not, and I know I like to make jokes, but I'd bet money that particular scene involves some sort of force-bondy experience with Kylo.

ReyofLightSide wrote:Looking at Rian's previous movies, I don't know what else it could be but Looper.

Clearly if we have time travel, this means the theory of Snoke being Kylo from the future is happening

But seriously, I am trying to think how it could all work. Will Rey just keep going back and see all of these key things in Ben's past?

@ReyofLightSide
It would make sense since there are no real flashbacks in Star Wars.

I am pretty sure we are going to learn the story of Ben's fall. It could be told by Luke and that's nice, but if Rey is going back and really experiencing it all, and THEN she tells Kylo more or less, I know what happened to you. That will be a bigger dramatic payoff.

Obviously when Rey come out of the cave? tree? in the trailer, she has seen some crazy sith,

snufkin wrote:Ha, well there are a lot of New Agey beliefs here about portals and whatnot. Like how Bigfoot is supposedly buddies with a group of ancient space aliens who travel to and from this plane from their secret space port that's at top of an ancient volcano. So just think of the Wardrobe as the portal between Narnia and England - except that it'd be the first Jedi Temple instead of a piece of furniture from Ikea.

If you watch the Simpsons, they make fun of the Mystery Spot by saying that it's either a gateway people use to travel outside of their bodies to another dimension. Or that it's just the fumes of the paint job that makes them hallucinate and get nauseous.

@snufkin

I just had another crazy thought. Remember how we were talking about how Snoke might be like a disgusting Roman emperor of old ... well there was a rumor someplace that Snoke was less Roman emperor and more like the evil, luxe dressed but gross power beings in Stargate.  Now I  doubt Rian will copy Stargate, but when you think about it, this portal idea is pretty common. It's not just in Stargate and Narnia, but also Harry Potter, LOTR (reviving dead soldiers), Raiders of the Lost Ark (spirits and Angel of Death coming through the Ark of the Covenant), freaking Poltergeist ... *and* there is precedence for now in New canon comics.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

snufkin wrote:Ha, well there are a lot of New Agey beliefs here about portals and whatnot. Like how Bigfoot is supposedly buddies with a group of ancient space aliens who travel to and from this plane from their secret space port that's at top of an ancient volcano. So just think of the Wardrobe as the portal between Narnia and England - except that it'd be the first Jedi Temple instead of a piece of furniture from Ikea.

If you watch the Simpsons, they make fun of the Mystery Spot by saying that it's either a gateway people use to travel outside of their bodies to another dimension. Or that it's just the fumes of the paint job that makes them hallucinate and get nauseous.

@snufkin

I just had another crazy thought. Remember how we were talking about how Snoke might be like a disgusting Roman emperor of old ... well there was a rumor someplace that Snoke was less Roman emperor and more like the evil, luxe dressed but gross power beings in Stargate.  Now I  doubt Rian will copy Stargate, but when you think about it, this portal idea is pretty common. It's not just in Stargate and Narnia, but also Harry Potter, LOTR (reviving dead soldiers), Raiders of the Lost Ark (spirits and Angel of Death coming through the Ark of the Covenant), freaking Poltergeist ... *and* there is precedence for now in New canon comics.

@SoloSideCousin

Not to mention the portals in the Thor movies...

ReyofLightSide wrote:I am pretty sure we are going to learn the story of Ben's fall. It could be told by Luke and that's nice, but if Rey is going back and really experiencing it all, and THEN she tells Kylo more or less, I know what happened to you. That will be a bigger dramatic payoff.

Obviously when Rey come out of the cave? tree? in the trailer, she has seen some crazy sith,

@ReyofLightSide

That is totally my headcanon dream for Rey to see his experience as firsthand as possible. I want her to see stuff Luke didn't see. This will be how she starts to bridge the family back together *and* how she will start to see Kylo in a new way.

ReyofLightSide wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

snufkin wrote:Ha, well there are a lot of New Agey beliefs here about portals and whatnot. Like how Bigfoot is supposedly buddies with a group of ancient space aliens who travel to and from this plane from their secret space port that's at top of an ancient volcano. So just think of the Wardrobe as the portal between Narnia and England - except that it'd be the first Jedi Temple instead of a piece of furniture from Ikea.

If you watch the Simpsons, they make fun of the Mystery Spot by saying that it's either a gateway people use to travel outside of their bodies to another dimension. Or that it's just the fumes of the paint job that makes them hallucinate and get nauseous.

@snufkin

I just had another crazy thought. Remember how we were talking about how Snoke might be like a disgusting Roman emperor of old ... well there was a rumor someplace that Snoke was less Roman emperor and more like the evil, luxe dressed but gross power beings in Stargate.  Now I  doubt Rian will copy Stargate, but when you think about it, this portal idea is pretty common. It's not just in Stargate and Narnia, but also Harry Potter, LOTR (reviving dead soldiers), Raiders of the Lost Ark (spirits and Angel of Death coming through the Ark of the Covenant), freaking Poltergeist ... *and* there is precedence for now in New canon comics.

@SoloSideCousin

Not to mention the portals in the Thor movies...

Now I've got the goofy image of Chewie as Bigfoot kicking it with the Lemurians at the secret time and dimension warping space port at the top of Mt Shasta. But as long as it's not as goofy as Midichlorians, that could work for whatever's in the First Jedi Temple. It'd fit with the speculation here about how to open it, with either a LS and DS user and/or a specific crystal. Not to mention the Raiders references, including the first teaser shot of the island. Also with the debate about what is meant to go on with each other, likely she'd end up in a situation where her moral code/conscience dictate that she has to team up with him but still doesn't trust him/he's still very much dangerous and naughty in his uncle's words.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:I am pretty sure we are going to learn the story of Ben's fall. It could be told by Luke and that's nice, but if Rey is going back and really experiencing it all, and THEN she tells Kylo more or less, I know what happened to you. That will be a bigger dramatic payoff.

Obviously when Rey come out of the cave? tree? in the trailer, she has seen some crazy sith,

@ReyofLightSide

That is totally my headcanons dream for Rey to see his experience as firsthand as possible. I want her to see stuff Luke didn't see. This will be how she starts to bridge the family back together *and* how she will start to see Kylo in a new way.

@SoloSideCousin

If we are right about the direction of the story, and I know we are the only person who we'll see learn about it first hand will be Rey. We might get a short recap via Luke which might be what's true on the surface, but no doubt we'll see the real story unfold through Rey's eyes.

It's said that the main character in the OT isn't Luke, but Vader. We just see Vader's story unfold through Luke's perspective. I don't doubt the same will be true with this one.