Re: Rian's New Rules

by motherofpearl1 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:14 am

SoloSideCousin wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:Let's also not forget that Safety Not Guaranteed also dealt with time travel and the urge to go back and change something that happened in the past in order to create a different outcome in the future.

It has those themes in common with Looper.

I'd kind of love an ending to IX where Rey and Ben head into some alternate reality together to get their Happily Ever After.
@ISeeAnIsland

You know it's funny that you mention that because lately I have started wanting Rey and Kylo to go off to explore the Unknown Regions together at the end of IX. He could even be exiled there and she goes with him for love and adventure. After being trapped on Jakku she will never be trapped again and the UR will be the ultimate adventure.

This would set up spin-off and/or sequels nicely where in the first movie they have an adventure in a mind blowing way, in the next they have another adventure and she is pregnant at the end, the third has a few year time jump and they turn up again with young kids. ITA with you and @Vaderito from the other thread that young kids would be very interesting. They could get some phenom young actors (Adam does great with kids), have the kids struggle with their overwhelming force powers (because with those parents you couldn't expect less), have the kids and Rey and Kylo struggle over a necessary return to the known galaxy and so on. So much potential.

@SoloSideCousin

I keep getting that vibe myself; it'd work for me, especially if Kylo could never really 'go back' if Leia dies - no way would the Resistance have him, and Luke doesn't seem like the forgiving man he once was.

by ISeeAnIsland Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:15 am

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Piper Maru wrote:I'm a huge fan of Fringe (I like it waaay more than Lost) and I definitely see a pattern here: all the three directors have worked with the idea of parallel dimensions/connection through time & space between partners.
@Piper Maru

Wow! That is a really unusual parallel. I mean how many directors have done that kind of particular thing? Not too many. There is something here. :-)

@SoloSideCousin

Yup. I never watched Fringe, but I have friends whose taste I trust who loved it. It can't be a coincidence that all three directors worked with time travel-ish themes.

In Colin's case, it wasn't so much a connection across time, but both the male and female lead wanted to be able to go back in time to change a specific event that happened in the past.

Sort of like a less-intense version of Old Joe traveling back in Looper to stop the Rainmaker.

by motherofpearl1 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:19 am

ReyofLightSide wrote:
Moonlight13 wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
ReyofLightSide wrote:I am pretty sure we are going to learn the story of Ben's fall. It could be told by Luke and that's nice, but if Rey is going back and really experiencing it all, and THEN she tells Kylo more or less, I know what happened to you. That will be a bigger dramatic payoff.

Obviously when Rey come out of the cave? tree? in the trailer, she has seen some crazy sith,
@ReyofLightSide

That is totally my headcanons dream for Rey to see his experience as firsthand as possible. I want her to see stuff Luke didn't see. This will be how she starts to bridge the family back together *and* how she will start to see Kylo in a new way.
@SoloSideCousin

What if she saw Ben as a kid but he didn't remember her clearly until the fight scene? It would explain the "it is you" line.
@Moonlight13

So he says that in the book and not the movie BUT, after she catches the light saber it looks like he is going to start saying something but the camera cuts away. They may have filmed a version with him saying it. But it also explains "What girl??!"

@ReyofLightSide

I'm sure they cut that; I'm also sure that Rey originally saw Kylo being rescued by Hux and that was also cut; you can see it where she looks back before boarding the Falcon.
In the junior graphic novel they actually show that.

by SoloSideCousin Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:24 am

motherofpearl1 wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
ISeeAnIsland wrote:Let's also not forget that Safety Not Guaranteed also dealt with time travel and the urge to go back and change something that happened in the past in order to create a different outcome in the future.

It has those themes in common with Looper.

I'd kind of love an ending to IX where Rey and Ben head into some alternate reality together to get their Happily Ever After.
@ISeeAnIsland

You know it's funny that you mention that because lately I have started wanting Rey and Kylo to go off to explore the Unknown Regions together at the end of IX. He could even be exiled there and she goes with him for love and adventure. After being trapped on Jakku she will never be trapped again and the UR will be the ultimate adventure.

This would set up spin-off and/or sequels nicely where in the first movie they have an adventure in a mind blowing way, in the next they have another adventure and she is pregnant at the end, the third has a few year time jump and they turn up again with young kids. ITA with you and @Vaderito from the other thread that young kids would be very interesting. They could get some phenom young actors (Adam does great with kids), have the kids struggle with their overwhelming force powers (because with those parents you couldn't expect less), have the kids and Rey and Kylo struggle over a necessary return to the known galaxy and so on. So much potential.
@SoloSideCousin

I keep getting that vibe myself; it'd work for me, especially if Kylo could never really 'go back' if Leia dies - no way would the Resistance have him, and Luke doesn't seem like the forgiving man he once was.

@motherofpearl1

I've always been of the opinion that Luke would die and Leia would live past IX. I figured that he needed to die in that way Dumbledore had to die, in that Rey and maybe Kylo too would need to fight the battle without expert help in the end. But now that Carrie is gone, I am not sure what they will do.

by snufkin Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:50 am

Piper Maru wrote:I'm a huge fan of Fringe (I like it waaay more than Lost) and I definitely see a pattern here: all the three directors have worked with the idea of parallel dimensions/connection through time & space between partners.

@Piper Maru

Fringe does a far better job in writing a story where the themes of fate and parallel lives/universes fits in with the overall story. I definitely understood what the Hell they were talking about and bought the characterizations/relationships than I ever did with Lost. It's just that Lost had some kind of place in pop culture that made people stick with it versus how Fringe was always more low profile.

Obviously I'm being silly and tongue-in-cheek with some of my comments on this topic, but I do think that there will be a theme to do with a larger will of the Force. Which likely will be shown as part of Rey grappling with her path and whatever the story is about her (likely deceased due to the overarching Force plot) family. Also with Ben, that he may be somebody who chose the path he was on because he felt like he had no other choice. And that whatever happens between the two of them is fated/can't be avoided. JJ did compare them to two trains on the same track headed to collide with one another.

by SkyStar Sat 01 Jul 2017, 3:33 am

Good ideas!

Got me thinking, that it could also work as a reverse with Rey causing Ben's fall herself by doing something while traveling in the past. Probably depends on how you see time travel - is everything set in stone? While having good intentions, Rey does something that leads to Ben's fall, starting some chain of events. Think of Harry Potter saw his Patronus and thought it is summoned by his father, when in fact it was himself.
Then you don't get that - everything is magically reversed, nobody is dead part, but you get Rey wanting to save the present Ben and show how people can influence other's even if they don't directly try to, but it just happens.

by Darth_Awakened Sat 01 Jul 2017, 5:00 am

SkyStar wrote:Good ideas!

Got me thinking, that it could also work as a reverse with Rey causing Ben's fall herself by doing something while traveling in the past. Probably depends on how you see time travel - is everything set in stone? While having good intentions, Rey does something that leads to Ben's fall, starting some chain of events. Think of Harry Potter saw his Patronus and thought it is summoned by his father, when in fact it was himself.
Then you don't get that - everything is magically reversed, nobody is dead part, but you get Rey wanting to save the present Ben and show how people can influence other's even if they don't directly try to, but it just happens.

@SkyStar

The bolded led me to add another piece to the "crazy" puzzle:
A rumor we heard: "Ben turned to dark side instead of Rey" could suggests some messing with time and places.
The question is: by whom?

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 5:27 am

I don't know how I would feel about time travel in Star Wars. It sounds awfully Star Trekkian. I love Star Trek too, but for me they are very different entities.

I'm not a fan of the time travel device in any series, really. Though I've never seen Looper and can't comment on that.

by motherofpearl1 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:10 am

I'm a bit on the fence about time travel myself!

by vaderito Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:14 am

Moonlight13 wrote:@SoloSideCousin @Helix
In that case, maybe Rey didn't have a force vision when she touched Anakin's lightsaber but she time traveled briefly or went to another plane instead.
EDIT: It would also explain why Kylo seemed to look in her direction in the rain scene (because she was physically there).

@Moonlight13

If she is physically where, then why only Kylo sees her, but KoR doesn't? Also, why Luke and Young Rey don't register her either? It's a vision only. I think that we are reading too much into Kylo seeing her. It's a method of showing that he's important to her story. Kind of like how to single him out. Now, I would love it if his breaking the 4th wall had an actual meaning (like in the dual vision theory where he saw Rey on his side) but I doubt it. Sometimes a device is just a device.

Also, big NO to time travel cause that trope always ends up in retconning and copping out. Always.

I think that new rules are about the Force, moving away from Jedi/Sith and Dark/Light irreconcilable duality and towards something more integrated and bigger.

by Saracene Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:27 am

motherofpearl1 wrote:I'm a bit on the fence about time travel myself!

@motherofpearl1

I'm on the "please don't" side of the fence. I adore time travel in fiction, but leave it to Star Trek.

by Piper Maru Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:33 am

snufkin wrote:
Piper Maru wrote:I'm a huge fan of Fringe (I like it waaay more than Lost) and I definitely see a pattern here: all the three directors have worked with the idea of parallel dimensions/connection through time & space between partners.

@Piper Maru

Fringe does a far better job in writing a story where the themes of fate and parallel lives/universes fits in with the overall story. I definitely understood what the Hell they were talking about and bought the characterizations/relationships than I ever did with Lost. It's just that Lost had some kind of place in pop culture that made people stick with it versus how Fringe was always more low profile.

Obviously I'm being silly and tongue-in-cheek with some of my comments on this topic, but I do think that there will be a theme to do with a larger will of the Force. Which likely will be shown as part of Rey grappling with her path and whatever the story is about her (likely deceased due to the overarching Force plot) family. Also with Ben, that he may be somebody who chose the path he was on because he felt like he had no other choice. And that whatever happens between the two of them is fated/can't be avoided. JJ did compare them to two trains on the same track headed to collide with one another.

@snufkin

About Lost: oh, it's definitely a far more more influential show in pop culture than Fringe was. Even in the academy, there are many influential authors in Media Studies that consider Lost the turning point of contemporary television (Jason Mittel, Henry Jemkins and Arlindo Machado, particularly).

On a side note, I'm genuinely intrigued by this convergence of themes between J.J., Rian and Colin. It's something I never thought about before. I'm not expecting conventional time travel or multiverse stories, but now I'm thinking about the possibility of some sort of time manipulation as a Force ability. If you think about it, the Forceback already is a time manipulation of sorts; Rey touches the saber and is thrown in a vortex between past, present and future.

Remember when they told us that Rey's role in the Force was extremely important to the Galaxy? Having the ability to "see through" time seems to be pretty important to me.

by Cowgirlsamurai Sat 01 Jul 2017, 8:08 am

I'm also on the, "No time travel, please," side of the fence. These characters can use the Force and manipulate time? I think it gives the writers and characters too much power to do whatever the heck they want story wise. How can we explain this? Time travel!

Also, I think the fact that Rian's already made a movie(s?) where time travel is a prominent theme would make him less likely to throw it into SW, otherwise, he risks getting labeled "the time travel director." Just my guess, though.

I think the new rules regard the Force and light/dark (Rey/Kylo) dynamic as well. I mean, we the audience, do get to travel back in time in a way already via "Force-backs." I don't think the characters themselves should be able to physically go back to these moments.

by IoJovi Sat 01 Jul 2017, 8:54 am

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I'm also on the, "No time travel, please," side of the fence. These characters can use the Force and manipulate time? I think it gives the writers and characters too much power to do whatever the heck they want story wise. How can we explain this? Time travel!

Also, I think the fact that Rian's already made a movie(s?) where time travel is a prominent theme would make him less likely to throw it into SW, otherwise, he risks getting labeled "the time travel director." Just my guess, though.

I think the new rules regard the Force and light/dark (Rey/Kylo) dynamic as well. I mean, we the audience, do get to travel back in time in a way already via "Force-backs." I don't think the characters themselves should be able to physically go back to these moments.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I'll be the first to admit it has the potential for all kinds of retconning. When I said Rey learn of time travel to prevent Ben's fall in the first place, I was thinking of the romance of it, but not the practicality. I was picturing Rey and Ben, happily ever after, their children, and Ben's parents (both of them) living next door. I don't think that's likely at all in Canon, but it's fun to explore.

I think visions of the past (and future) from Rey's perspective are much more likely.

by Helix Sat 01 Jul 2017, 9:03 am

IoJovi wrote:
Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I'm also on the, "No time travel, please," side of the fence. These characters can use the Force and manipulate time? I think it gives the writers and characters too much power to do whatever the heck they want story wise. How can we explain this? Time travel!

Also, I think the fact that Rian's already made a movie(s?) where time travel is a prominent theme would make him less likely to throw it into SW, otherwise, he risks getting labeled "the time travel director." Just my guess, though.

I think the new rules regard the Force and light/dark (Rey/Kylo) dynamic as well. I mean, we the audience, do get to travel back in time in a way already via "Force-backs." I don't think the characters themselves should be able to physically go back to these moments.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I'll be the first to admit it has the potential for all kinds of retconning. When I said Rey learn of time travel to prevent Ben's fall in the first place, I was thinking of the romance of it, but not the practicality. I was picturing Rey and Ben, happily ever after, their children, and Ben's parents (both of them) living next door. I don't think that's likely at all in Canon, but it's fun to explore.

I think visions of the past (and future) from Rey's perspective are much more likely.

@IoJovi

Aka an excuse for Flashbacks in SW. Laughing

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 9:21 am

I'm not sure I see time travel happening, not in a Looper way or similar. Something like the Mortis trilogy could come into play and that would allow the rules to be bent without necessarily changing them in any lasting way.

As we all know, George Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney in 2012. He wanted to move on and, after the prequels, I think a lot of fans wanted him to move on. But George Lucas is a visionary and he deserves lots and lots of credit for trying to do something different with each of the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, people preferred the swashbuckling, comedy-action tone of the originals, not the plodding politics of the first three episodes.

Still, George Lucas wasn't quite done with Star Wars after Revenge of the Sith. He went to create the Clone Wars animated TV series for Cartoon Network. We know he was heavily involved in the beginning and then slowly stepped away. It's pretty clear that by the fourth season that George was no longer a major creative presence on the show.

But in the third season, in 2011, a year before he sold Lucasfilm, there was a very odd trilogy of episodes called the “Mortis Trilogy.” As Clone Wars director Dave Filoni describes it in the DVD extras, “George laid out these episodes, and the writers were in awe.” They also didn't know what to make of it. It fell on Filoni and writer Christian Taylor to tell George's story, and they wanted to get it right, as it was full of new information about how The Force worked.

In the “Mortis Trilogy,” Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Ahsoka Tano are mysteriously drawn to the mystical planet of Mortis. It's occupied by The Father, Son, and Daughter (I wonder where George got that idea from), otherwise known as Force Wielders. The Father is the one keeping balance to the force as the Son and Daughter battle it out between evil and good. Before The Father dies, he asks Anakin to take his place, so someone can continue to bring balance to The Force. But Anakin is having none of it.

The story is weird. Really weird. There are things in this story you never see in Star Wars. There are angels, demons, magical daggers made of mist, griffins, and gargoyles. Yes, gargoyles. There are lots of pretty impressive cameos by many historical Star Wars figures, including Master Qui-Jon Ginn (voiced by special guest star Liam Neeson!) The creatives threw their backs into this, even if the whole thing is hard to follow and is nothing like the rest of the Clone Wars series.

I saw it a few months ago, and it's not an easy story to make sense of. But there's a big stand out scene that's one of the most memorable, if not the most memorable scene in the Clone Wars series. Anakin Skywalker is shown his future. He's forced to take in the fact that he turns to the dark side and becomes Darth Vader. Young(ish) Anakin is completely devastated and buckles under the intensity of the revelation. Of course, his mind is wiped of this knowledge afterward, but it's interesting to watch Anakin confront who he will become. It's worth it just for that.

As Dave Filoni tells us in the DVD extras, he and writer Christian Taylor had trouble at first reconciling this supernatural story with the rest of the Star Wars universe that George Lucas created. They decided that they couldn't. As Filoni describes it: “You have to think of this as the three entire episodes taking placing in the tree when Luke was on Dagobah.” In fact, the whole thing is a metaphor. Everything in the story is symbolic of “everything that takes place in all six Star Wars films.” And so, I truly believe it stands as George Lucas's goodbye story.

Is it canon? Yes. Well, sort of. It's a metaphor.

by motherofpearl1 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 9:45 am

Saracene wrote:
motherofpearl1 wrote:I'm a bit on the fence about time travel myself!
@motherofpearl1

I'm on the "please don't" side of the fence. I adore time travel in fiction, but leave it to Star Trek.

@Saracene

Have to agree there.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 9:58 am

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I'm also on the, "No time travel, please," side of the fence. These characters can use the Force and manipulate time? I think it gives the writers and characters too much power to do whatever the heck they want story wise. How can we explain this? Time travel!

Also, I think the fact that Rian's already made a movie(s?) where time travel is a prominent theme would make him less likely to throw it into SW, otherwise, he risks getting labeled "the time travel director." Just my guess, though.

I think the new rules regard the Force and light/dark (Rey/Kylo) dynamic as well. I mean, we the audience, do get to travel back in time in a way already via "Force-backs." I don't think the characters themselves should be able to physically go back to these moments.

@Cowgirlsamurai

I'm also strongly reminded of the plot from "The Butterfly Effect" in which a man tries to save a girl from abuse by traveling through time and changing past events. (I do recommend that film to anyone who is a fan of that kind of story, btw - it's quite dark but very intriguing.)

by SkyStar Sat 01 Jul 2017, 10:11 am

WhatGirl wrote:
Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I'm also on the, "No time travel, please," side of the fence. These characters can use the Force and manipulate time? I think it gives the writers and characters too much power to do whatever the heck they want story wise. How can we explain this? Time travel!

Also, I think the fact that Rian's already made a movie(s?) where time travel is a prominent theme would make him less likely to throw it into SW, otherwise, he risks getting labeled "the time travel director." Just my guess, though.

I think the new rules regard the Force and light/dark (Rey/Kylo) dynamic as well. I mean, we the audience, do get to travel back in time in a way already via "Force-backs." I don't think the characters themselves should be able to physically go back to these moments.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I'm also strongly reminded of the plot from "The Butterfly Effect" in which a man tries to save a girl from abuse by traveling through time and changing past events. (I do recommend that film to anyone who is a fan of that kind of story, btw - it's quite dark but very intriguing.)

@WhatGirl

I remember going to see that movie while being a teenager and being quite shook of how dark it is.

by snufkin Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:40 am

Piper Maru wrote:
snufkin wrote:
Piper Maru wrote:I'm a huge fan of Fringe (I like it waaay more than Lost) and I definitely see a pattern here: all the three directors have worked with the idea of parallel dimensions/connection through time & space between partners.

@Piper Maru

Fringe does a far better job in writing a story where the themes of fate and parallel lives/universes fits in with the overall story. I definitely understood what the Hell they were talking about and bought the characterizations/relationships than I ever did with Lost. It's just that Lost had some kind of place in pop culture that made people stick with it versus how Fringe was always more low profile.

Obviously I'm being silly and tongue-in-cheek with some of my comments on this topic, but I do think that there will be a theme to do with a larger will of the Force. Which likely will be shown as part of Rey grappling with her path and whatever the story is about her (likely deceased due to the overarching Force plot) family. Also with Ben, that he may be somebody who chose the path he was on because he felt like he had no other choice. And that whatever happens between the two of them is fated/can't be avoided. JJ did compare them to two trains on the same track headed to collide with one another.
@snufkin

About Lost: oh, it's definitely a far more more influential show in pop culture than Fringe was. Even in the academy, there are many influential authors in Media Studies that consider Lost the turning point of contemporary television (Jason Mittel, Henry Jemkins and Arlindo Machado, particularly).

On a side note, I'm genuinely intrigued by this convergence of themes between J.J., Rian and Colin. It's something I never thought about before. I'm not expecting conventional time travel or multiverse stories, but now I'm thinking about the possibility of some sort of time manipulation as a Force ability. If you think about it, the Forceback already is a time manipulation of sorts; Rey touches the saber and is thrown in a vortex between past, present and future.

Remember when they told us that Rey's role in the Force was extremely important to the Galaxy? Having the ability to "see through" time seems to be pretty important to me.

@Piper Maru

Do they track the investment in Lost as coinciding of other trends, like the beginnings of social media and fandom/geek culture becoming more mainstream? Personally I found it a lot easier to get invested in the larger universe and dramas of Fringe, versus losing my patience with Lost (same thing with X-Files) when they delved into the mythology and the grand conspiracy theory. I've heard Lindof's The Leftovers does a much better job of it based on the lessons learned from writing Lost and its criticisms. Haven't watched it yet, though I'm a fan of Tom Perotta's novels, so I'll eventually get around to it.

I'd agree that anything which delves too far into a time travel angle is in danger of going into Midichlorians territory. It may simply be correlation, not causation, that all three selected directors have worked on stories where time travel/the multiverse is a central motif. Especially because that's a pretty classic trope. That said, you don't have to go too deep into the weeds when it comes to that theme. Think of the diner scene in Looper, which is a meta statement to the audience that it's not time travel as much as exploring the idea of people who think that they're a good person (young Joe, Old Joe, and Sara) and the different paths a life can take based on those decisions. Which would definitely tie in with what's been hinted at for Ben, the likely different paths offered to him based on the family and position he was born into and the decisions he made in TFA b/c he believes that he's acting in service of the Greater Good. Same is true for Rey and how she goes back and forth between coming to the aid of different characters because of her character/moral code and how that conflicts with her belief that she has a mission to wait for her family's return.

Anyways, I don't think that it would be too much detail because they know all the midichlorian jokes. But it could be enough detail to explore the themes of parallel lives, fates, and how character/decisions affect that. Even when it comes to Luke. And think about Raiders or even Close Encounters of the Third Kind. The characters never went too far into detail about what exactly would happen if they gained the Ark (other than destroying those who looked directly into it) or boarded the UFO. So I'd be surprised if they went too far into detail with a theme like this one, other than using it as a tool to address these larger issues.

by ISeeAnIsland Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:41 am

Darth_Awakened wrote:
SkyStar wrote:Good ideas!

Got me thinking, that it could also work as a reverse with Rey causing Ben's fall herself by doing something while traveling in the past. Probably depends on how you see time travel - is everything set in stone? While having good intentions, Rey does something that leads to Ben's fall, starting some chain of events. Think of Harry Potter saw his Patronus and thought it is summoned by his father, when in fact it was himself.
Then you don't get that - everything is magically reversed, nobody is dead part, but you get Rey wanting to save the present Ben and show how people can influence other's even if they don't directly try to, but it just happens.
@SkyStar

The bolded led me to add another piece to the "crazy" puzzle:
A rumor we heard: "Ben turned to dark side instead of Rey" could suggests some messing with time and places.
The question is: by whom?

@Darth_Awakened

We're clearly on the same wavelength again--I was coming here just to post about that.

In fact, if I recall, the wording from the Knights of Rant podcast (the source for that rumor) was that "Ben fell in Rey's place". That seems even more like there was perhaps some timeline muddling that contributed to events ending up the way that did. Perhaps timeline muddling even contributed to Rey ending up alone on Jakku at 5.

The Harry Potter example was a great one. There were "incidents" of time travel in Harry Potter, but the plot didn't revolve around it. I'd be okay with something like that in Star Wars.

by snufkin Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:58 am

Based on this discussion, I'm wondering when we'll see Mike Zeroh and his ilk come up with a "mind blowing new Star Wars theory!"

by **Moonlight13** Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:00 pm

snufkin wrote:Based on this discussion, I'm wondering when we'll see Mike Zeroh and his ilk come up with a "mind blowing new Star Wars theory!"

@snufkin

So true! lol!

by snufkin Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

@Moonlight13 - given some of those videos, we've suspected that they lurk here on the search of ~~content to steal~~ new topics.

by **Moonlight13** Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:05 pm

snufkin wrote:@Moonlight13 - given some of those videos, we've suspected that they lurk here on the search of ~~content to steal~~ new topics.

@snufkin

It wouldn't surprise me if he did. Laughing

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