The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

DeeBee wrote:

vaderito wrote:@DeeBee

Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.

Projection was definitely a device to save Kylo from killing another OT character. Whether it was Luke's intention too is not clear but it was definitely Rian's intention.

I think that Luke realized half-way through Kylo's tantrum that it isn't about Luke having tried to assassinate Kylo anymore but that it's all about losing the girl. So he was, like, OK, I can't help with that. That's all on him. Might check up on him later when he chills a bit.

@vaderito

Ohhh I like the way that sounds Vaderito!
I think it matters that Rey didn't join him and he smarts from that - but I personally don't see all the anger as being about Rey's rejection. Kylo's issues with Luke, his mother, the resistance run very deep. I'm sure Kylo was hurting from Rey refusing his offer, but there was also a lot of deep seated emotional drama going on that Kylo/Ben has carried around inside him for years in play here..  
Honestly, these skywalker reunions are intense!

@DeeBee

I agree, the anger was definitely not just Rey. He's plenty furious and resentful towards Luke, his family, the Resistance (because of his family/past) and probably the whole galaxy at that point. I mean, he wanted to destroy everything.

So, it was probably everything bundled up together.  Having Rey reject him and choose the hated Resistance (after he became emboldened enough to kill Snoke and ask her join him) was betrayal and abandonment all over again (to him). So he goes for the Resistance and then Luke shows up and says all that stuff.

Kessel wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

vaderito wrote:@DeeBee

Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.

Projection was definitely a device to save Kylo from killing another OT character. Whether it was Luke's intention too is not clear but it was definitely Rian's intention.

I think that Luke realized half-way through Kylo's tantrum that it isn't about Luke having tried to assassinate Kylo anymore but that it's all about losing the girl. So he was, like, OK, I can't help with that. That's all on him. Might check up on him later when he chills a bit.

@vaderito

Ohhh I like the way that sounds Vaderito!
I think it matters that Rey didn't join him and he smarts from that - but I personally don't see all the anger as being about Rey's rejection. Kylo's issues with Luke, his mother, the resistance run very deep. I'm sure Kylo was hurting from Rey refusing his offer, but there was also a lot of deep seated emotional drama going on that Kylo/Ben has carried around inside him for years in play here..  
Honestly, these skywalker reunions are intense!

@DeeBee

I agree, the anger was definitely not just Rey. He's plenty furious and resentful towards Luke, his family, the Resistance (because of his family/past) and probably the whole galaxy at that point. I mean, he wanted to destroy everything.

So, it was probably everything bundled up together.  Having Rey reject him and choose the hated Resistance (after he became emboldened enough to kill Snoke and ask her join him) was betrayal and abandonment all over again (to him). So he goes for the Resistance and then Luke shows up and says all that stuff.

@Kessel

Yeah! Love this Kessel.. it's Crait salt in his festering wounds!
'I'll destroy her' made me cringe - but I didn't for one moment believe he actually meant it.

DeeBee wrote:

Kessel wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

vaderito wrote:@DeeBee

Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.

Projection was definitely a device to save Kylo from killing another OT character. Whether it was Luke's intention too is not clear but it was definitely Rian's intention.

I think that Luke realized half-way through Kylo's tantrum that it isn't about Luke having tried to assassinate Kylo anymore but that it's all about losing the girl. So he was, like, OK, I can't help with that. That's all on him. Might check up on him later when he chills a bit.

@vaderito

Ohhh I like the way that sounds Vaderito!
I think it matters that Rey didn't join him and he smarts from that - but I personally don't see all the anger as being about Rey's rejection. Kylo's issues with Luke, his mother, the resistance run very deep. I'm sure Kylo was hurting from Rey refusing his offer, but there was also a lot of deep seated emotional drama going on that Kylo/Ben has carried around inside him for years in play here..  
Honestly, these skywalker reunions are intense!

@DeeBee

I agree, the anger was definitely not just Rey. He's plenty furious and resentful towards Luke, his family, the Resistance (because of his family/past) and probably the whole galaxy at that point. I mean, he wanted to destroy everything.

So, it was probably everything bundled up together.  Having Rey reject him and choose the hated Resistance (after he became emboldened enough to kill Snoke and ask her join him) was betrayal and abandonment all over again (to him). So he goes for the Resistance and then Luke shows up and says all that stuff.

@Kessel

Yeah! Love this Kessel.. it's Crait salt in his festering wounds!
'I'll destroy her' made me cringe - but I didn't for one moment believe he actually meant it.

@DeeBee

Poor Kylo

I wonder if Kylo hates salt like his grandfather hated sand? After what went down on Crait, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

DeeBee wrote:

Kessel wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

vaderito wrote:@DeeBee

Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.

Projection was definitely a device to save Kylo from killing another OT character. Whether it was Luke's intention too is not clear but it was definitely Rian's intention.

I think that Luke realized half-way through Kylo's tantrum that it isn't about Luke having tried to assassinate Kylo anymore but that it's all about losing the girl. So he was, like, OK, I can't help with that. That's all on him. Might check up on him later when he chills a bit.

@vaderito

Ohhh I like the way that sounds Vaderito!
I think it matters that Rey didn't join him and he smarts from that - but I personally don't see all the anger as being about Rey's rejection. Kylo's issues with Luke, his mother, the resistance run very deep. I'm sure Kylo was hurting from Rey refusing his offer, but there was also a lot of deep seated emotional drama going on that Kylo/Ben has carried around inside him for years in play here..  
Honestly, these skywalker reunions are intense!

@DeeBee

I agree, the anger was definitely not just Rey. He's plenty furious and resentful towards Luke, his family, the Resistance (because of his family/past) and probably the whole galaxy at that point. I mean, he wanted to destroy everything.

So, it was probably everything bundled up together.  Having Rey reject him and choose the hated Resistance (after he became emboldened enough to kill Snoke and ask her join him) was betrayal and abandonment all over again (to him). So he goes for the Resistance and then Luke shows up and says all that stuff.

@Kessel

Yeah! Love this Kessel.. it's Crait salt in his festering wounds!
'I'll destroy her' made me cringe - but I didn't for one moment believe he actually meant it.

@DeeBee

There's no way that Crait being a salt planet with a blood-red undersoil wasn't specifically thought up as a visual representation of 'salt in the wounds'. Frigging Rian Johnson. And this is following the oh-so-subtly named Ahch-To (Act Two) 

@ZioRen - omg, completely, 100%!

Kessel wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

vaderito wrote:@DeeBee

Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.

Projection was definitely a device to save Kylo from killing another OT character. Whether it was Luke's intention too is not clear but it was definitely Rian's intention.

I think that Luke realized half-way through Kylo's tantrum that it isn't about Luke having tried to assassinate Kylo anymore but that it's all about losing the girl. So he was, like, OK, I can't help with that. That's all on him. Might check up on him later when he chills a bit.

@vaderito

Ohhh I like the way that sounds Vaderito!
I think it matters that Rey didn't join him and he smarts from that - but I personally don't see all the anger as being about Rey's rejection. Kylo's issues with Luke, his mother, the resistance run very deep. I'm sure Kylo was hurting from Rey refusing his offer, but there was also a lot of deep seated emotional drama going on that Kylo/Ben has carried around inside him for years in play here..  
Honestly, these skywalker reunions are intense!

@DeeBee

I agree, the anger was definitely not just Rey. He's plenty furious and resentful towards Luke, his family, the Resistance (because of his family/past) and probably the whole galaxy at that point. I mean, he wanted to destroy everything.

So, it was probably everything bundled up together.  Having Rey reject him and choose the hated Resistance (after he became emboldened enough to kill Snoke and ask her join him) was betrayal and abandonment all over again (to him). So he goes for the Resistance and then Luke shows up and says all that stuff.

@Kessel

He hates everyone and everything and he has a reason for it. I think Kylo will be extremely bitter in Episode IX, if he sees Rey like I don't expect anything good because he'll either ignore her or be angry. Depends on how he handles this abandonment because as yousaid, she abandon him in his own mind, tried to use the lightsaber and we saw what happened when beloved uncle did that.

A super quick random question for anyone..

Is the Collider video spoiler review of TLJ worth watching? Or will they just irritate the daylights out of me?

is it all focus on Luke and Leia? and are they still calling Reylo misdirection?!!!
If so, I'll skip it! To me they are all suffering from group think and need someone in with fresh eyes and open minds!
I just watch them for info on canon stuff!

Would appreciate a heads up. Thanks!

DeeBee wrote:A super quick random question for anyone..

Is the Collider video spoiler review of TLJ worth watching? Or will they just irritate the daylights out of me?

is it all focus on Luke and Leia? and are they still calling Reylo misdirection?!!!
If so, I'll skip it! To me they are all suffering from group think and need someone in with fresh eyes and open minds!
I just watch them for info on canon stuff!

Would appreciate a heads up. Thanks!

@DeeBee

Isn't it like 1.5 hours long? I haven't really been able to get through any spoiler videos longer than half an hour. Plus, after their blatantly stupid review article I can't imagine hearing the ramble that long would be entertaining.

Moonjump05 wrote:

DeeBee wrote:A super quick random question for anyone..

Is the Collider video spoiler review of TLJ worth watching? Or will they just irritate the daylights out of me?

is it all focus on Luke and Leia? and are they still calling Reylo misdirection?!!!
If so, I'll skip it! To me they are all suffering from group think and need someone in with fresh eyes and open minds!
I just watch them for info on canon stuff!

Would appreciate a heads up. Thanks!

@DeeBee

Isn't it like 1.5 hours long?  I haven't really been able to get through any spoiler videos longer than half an hour.  Plus, after their blatantly stupid review article I can't imagine hearing the ramble that long would be entertaining.

@Moonjump05

Hi Moonjump05, thanks for your reply. LOL yeah thus why I want to know
I sometimes have them on in the background while I'm doing something else.. and just keep an ear out for interesting tidbits!
If I end up watching I'll reply to my own question ha!
I haven't read the review article. I might do that first. Thanks for the tip!

Okay I just had a quick read through - they don't even mention the hand scene!!! The UST!!!! gah!!!! I am curious to hear their take on Luke though.. given they seem to biased in focus toward the OT and it's characters!

This is a great review about how TLJ ties together the OT and PT themes about the Jedi and a corrupted legacy. I only gave a perfunctory look at the PT for Ewan McGregor, but it seemed pretty clear that the parts with Rey, Ben, and Luke were meant to piggyback on the themes and stories from that part of the 'history' with Luke's question to restore the order/history culminates in him realizing just how bad sh*t when down. It's all part of how RJ deconstructs the myths/stories (the things Rey heard as stories on Jakku and the myths she told herself about her parents/what they did to her) around the franchise. Luke's monologue in the Jedi Temple about the downfall of the order explains how Ben can't let go of the belief that what makes him special is his link to this group through his bloodline and in turn

'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Redeems the Prequels

In the prequels, the Jedi are the worst. They’re an overfed priest class lording over the last days of the decadent Republic from their towers in the sky on Coruscant. Everyone says they’re supposed to be the morally upright guardians of order, “the guardians of peace and justice,” as Obi Wan tells Luke in A New Hope.

Then there’s the midichlorians, the last and best example of how the Jedi lost their way. In The Last Jedi, A New Hope, and Empire Strikes Back, the remaining Jedi describe the Force as a spiritual energy that connects all living things. In the prequels, the Jedi use devices to track the level of midichlorians in the blood to help them decide if someone is worth training. Fans have always pointed to this as an inconsistency in the logic of the world, but it makes perfect sense to me.

Pseudoscience is the last bastion of a religious order clinging to power. Midichlorians are bullshit and I think the Jedi knew it. They’re using the blood bugs to enforce the Divine right of kings. They need the order to be exclusive, but the Force belongs to everyone. If they can use midichlorian counts to keep out prospective Jedi—regardless of their actual skill or talent with the Force—then they have greater control over who they train and who they exclude.

A short amount for tonight: I was ..... disappointed. It's not that it's a bad movie, and it has some big strengths. But it kept leaving its strengths for its weaknesses, like for instance, oh I don't know, what was an example of a weakness ..... what could I possibly be talking about ..... Finn and Rose. I mean how much screen time do we waste on that storyline? Every time I look up they're f*cking on the screen. I mean, isn't this a movie series about Rey and her journey?

Kylo Men wrote:A short amount for tonight: I was ..... disappointed. It's not that it's a bad movie, and it has some big strengths. But it kept leaving its strengths for its weaknesses, like for instance, oh I don't know, what was an example of a weakness ..... what could I possibly be talking about ..... Finn and Rose. I mean how much screen time do we waste on that storyline? Every time I look up they're f*cking on the screen. I mean, isn't this a movie series about Rey and her journey?

@Kylo Men

Yeah, that was my problem too.

Piper Maru wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Saracene wrote:Reading people's responses elsewhere, it seems that almost nobody thinks that Kylo's redemption is possible anymore, even though Kylo's last force link-up with Rey spells out exactly why it's going to happen.

Job well done ST, you've now pulled off this trick twice

@Saracene

LOL

Which is super interesting because Kylo didn't do anything worse than what he did in TFA.  On the contrary he killed Snoke. A part of his showdown on Crait - where it was obvious he's just acting out because his GF dumped him.

@Darth_Awakened

Yes! I was extremely depressed before I thought about it and realized that he actually saved the Galaxy in a twisted way? He killed Snoke, the super moustache twirling villain. And nobody else. It's funny how the movie gives us the impression that he's beyond all hope when, in fact, he's not.

@Piper Maru

That's the thing with middle chapters of trilogies...they're suppose to feel the darkest with no resolution in sight.  The whole crux of this saga is Ben's redemption.   It's suppose to feel like he's lost forever, on the surface.  If he had accepted Rey's proposal and run off with her to the Resistance then there would be no further conflict; there would be no Episode IX.  

It has to appear like the divide between Rey and Ben is too insurmountable because their union is also the crux of trilogy.  That's what's made some of the greatest romance...overcoming the odds.  And last time I checked when all the naysayers said Kylo and Rey were just going to be straight enemies in a black and white fashion; there's no way Kylo and Rey would connect let alone work together, TLJ said otherwise.  There's a reason the forums predicted most of the things that happened in Episode VIII.  There's a reason the antis were wrong about everything they wanted to happen.  I like to think the odds are still in team Reylos favor.

May I just say - probably mentioned already but there’s too much to read - that RJ really succeeded in creating confusion because I zigzag between calling the Galaxy’s most broken man by his birth name Ben and his chosen name Kylo. I write Kylo and then think Ben and vice versa. It’s tiring.

SanghaRen wrote:May I just say - probably mentioned already but there’s too much to read - that RJ really succeeded in creating confusion because I zigzag between calling the Galaxy’s most broken man by his birth name Ben and his chosen name Kylo. I write Kylo and then think Ben and vice versa. It’s tiring.

@SanghaRen

These are two different personalities, basically he is mentally ill and Kylo Ren represents that. Years of abuse, whispering foul things to his ears. I think the real fight between light and dark in this trilogy is between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren. Truly light and dark within the person itself. This applies to other characters.

DarthRen wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:May I just say - probably mentioned already but there’s too much to read - that RJ really succeeded in creating confusion because I zigzag between calling the Galaxy’s most broken man by his birth name Ben and his chosen name Kylo. I write Kylo and then think Ben and vice versa. It’s tiring.

@SanghaRen

These are two different personalities, basically he is mentally ill and Kylo Ren represents that. Years of abuse, whispering foul things to his ears. I think the real fight between light and dark in this trilogy is between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren. Truly light and dark within the person itself. This applies to other characters.

@DarthRen

I agree and that’s where RJ, I think, really succeeded. You come out feeling that split in him, to the point where you don’t know which name you should call him anymore. Even after his descent into madness which should crystallize the Kylo Ren persona, the final scene is him kneeling down and holding the legacy gold dice and we are reminded of his Ben Solo persona again. Sneaky RJ.

SanghaRen wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:May I just say - probably mentioned already but there’s too much to read - that RJ really succeeded in creating confusion because I zigzag between calling the Galaxy’s most broken man by his birth name Ben and his chosen name Kylo. I write Kylo and then think Ben and vice versa. It’s tiring.

@SanghaRen

These are two different personalities, basically he is mentally ill and Kylo Ren represents that. Years of abuse, whispering foul things to his ears. I think the real fight between light and dark in this trilogy is between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren. Truly light and dark within the person itself. This applies to other characters.

@DarthRen

I agree and that’s where RJ, I think, really succeeded. You come out feeling that split in him, to the point where you don’t know which name you should call him anymore. Even after his descent into madness which should crystallize the Kylo Ren persona, the final scene is him kneeling down and holding the legacy gold dice and we are reminded of his Ben Solo persona again. Sneaky RJ.

@SanghaRen

Yup, for me now he is Ben, Kylo is slowly moving to the background. Mind games. And it's effective.

It was Rian who said we will see some cracks in kylo Ren
Little by little Ben is bypassing Kylo
how many times have we heard Ben's name in the previous movie? little
in this film, however, there is a strong presence of Ben .
It's an important factor

For the last few days after seeing TLJ, I keep reading reviews and articles that focus on the idea that Rey will become a Jedi master and train Force sensitives again, including broom boy. I also see the ever present fanboy complaints of why they killed Luke off, and why did Luke choose to die, and why did they destroy the Jedi legacy?

I mean did these people even pay attention to what the message was? Did they not listen to Luke, Yoda, and Kylo?

The past has to go and the future needs to learn from it. Sure, Luke had now implied that Rey will be a Jedi, but despite learning from the Jedi texts, she will not be a Jedi of the Old Order. She will use the knowledge of the texts to enlighten her and avoid making the mistakes the Order did and create a new kind of Jedi.

I think fans have reacted badly to this movie because it's destroying what we were all comfortable in knowing, which is the dichotomy of Dark and Light, good and evil, and as the balance is still yet to be achieved, most fans are not sure on how to accept this.

Everyone seems to still be holding on to the past.

Forget the fanboys. They can't let the past die .

So this is interesting. I asked all my non-starwars fans who watched TLJ to tell me what they think the main message of the film is. Two friends, both female and GA and who by the way really don't know each other and never heard of Reylo, texted me exactly the same: "liebe wird siegen" which simply means "love will conquer all"

Yes, women. Romantic wrecks .

Sforza wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:

vaderito wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:@Sforza , was the Broom Boy at the end the one you saw, since he had a weird hat, or was there an older boy?

@ReyofLightSide

it must be BroomBoi cause the scene plays exactly like she said, he looks up at the stars, has a hat.

@vaderito

That's what I was thinking. It was like she described and was filmed there. I didn't get the Rey has conflicted feelings direction from Rian but maybe he was talking about something else.

@Sforza, you were the first to confirm not only FinnRose but early Reylo by overhearing Rian's line about Rey  

@ReyofLightSide

I'm a really good spy. I think this was Broomboy. The scene was filmed on the top of Dubrovnik ancient walls and I was hidden at the bottom, like a real spy., so I couldn't see the age, but I heard that important line that made me believe in Reylo for 2 years without any doubt.

@Sforza

Which line if may I ask?

SanghaRen wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:May I just say - probably mentioned already but there’s too much to read - that RJ really succeeded in creating confusion because I zigzag between calling the Galaxy’s most broken man by his birth name Ben and his chosen name Kylo. I write Kylo and then think Ben and vice versa. It’s tiring.

@SanghaRen

These are two different personalities, basically he is mentally ill and Kylo Ren represents that. Years of abuse, whispering foul things to his ears. I think the real fight between light and dark in this trilogy is between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren. Truly light and dark within the person itself. This applies to other characters.

@DarthRen

I agree and that’s where RJ, I think, really succeeded. You come out feeling that split in him, to the point where you don’t know which name you should call him anymore. Even after his descent into madness which should crystallize the Kylo Ren persona, the final scene is him kneeling down and holding the legacy gold dice and we are reminded of his Ben Solo persona again. Sneaky RJ.

@SanghaRen

100% agreed. Ironically Kylo's line to Rey applies to him so much. Let go of the hatred and move on.

I saw the movie last night and it was an emotional and spiritual catharsis for me. It was beautiful and I cannot properly describe how much it resonated with me! I am going to see it again tonight (because, I just have to ). I'll post my detailed review after that!

Just saw an anti implying that Luke is still Rey's daddy, after all that (Reylo) stuff in the movie. Soe people will never let go until the bitter end in Episode 9

I just find it ironic how fanboys wanted Luke to ignite his green lightsaber against Kylo and he did, but instead, it was against sleeping and defenseless Ben.

SkyStar wrote:I just find it ironic how fanboys wanted Luke to ignite his green lightsaber against Kylo and he did, but instead, it was against sleeping and defenseless Ben.

@SkyStar

Ironic and tragic. I'd myself would rather avoid and done it differently, but still it's somehow satisfying that antis truly get what they did not expect.

I'm that petty.