Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Rian Johnson wrote:Ugh. Raoul.

This man knows me. We're on the same wavelength

Explains part of the reason he sidelined Finn, lol. Raoul surrogates don't inspire Rian.

Though can I just say that Patrick Wilson in the 2004 film is literally the only actor in the history of ever to make me actually like Raoul, terrible wig notwithstanding.

nickandnora wrote:Explains part of the reason he sidelined Finn, lol. Raoul surrogates don't inspire Rian.

Though can I just say that Patrick Wilson in the 2004 film is literally the only actor in the history of ever to make me actually like Raoul, terrible wig notwithstanding.

@nickandnora

Exactly what I thought lol. That tweet is very telling of what he thinks of Finn and Rey as a couple, probably.

Oh my god yes, I <3 <3 Patrick Wilson but that wig was terrible.

Edit: OMG!



Did they just... call out Ben for being thirsty for Rey...

@special_cases

The replies have me

Kylo Rey wrote:

nickandnora wrote:Explains part of the reason he sidelined Finn, lol. Raoul surrogates don't inspire Rian.

Though can I just say that Patrick Wilson in the 2004 film is literally the only actor in the history of ever to make me actually like Raoul, terrible wig notwithstanding.

@nickandnora

Exactly what I thought lol. That tweet is very telling of what he thinks of Finn and Rey as a couple, probably.

Oh my god yes, I <3 <3 Patrick Wilson but that wig was terrible.

Edit: OMG!



Did they just... call out Ben for being thirsty for Rey...

@Kylo Rey

Holy Sith! Finney my a**! Lol! This is unbelievable! Two years ago, not even the biggest Reylo could have imagined stuff like this!

Well Daisy did say that Rey is hungry and it's true, she had to pass up 60 portions for BB-8 and Ben offering himself to her. Give the girl some points for both moments of self sacrifice. It's obvious that the social media team for SW are enjoying themselves when it comes to TLJ with those type of Tweets. And hrm, they call him Ben. Wonder what that means?

Also the Phantom of the Opera isn't really something I'm familiar with, but at this point they (both LF and Rian Johnson) might as well call out that relationship and the Throne Room moment for what it is. Kyle (perfect choice of name) and Ben both have the same type of hair and somebody trying to be the New Vader/Son of Darkness as a pose is no different than carrying around the same Howard Zinn book and spouting off political rhetoric for the cool points.



ETA - @SoloSideCousin - I'm coming up on my 2nd anniversary of seeing TFA, finding the place that must not be named and lurking b/c of the original discussion ya'll were having. Which was constantly being interrupted by fans who "knew better" that the writer/director would be telling a story about Rey Skywalker and the Beautiful Friendship Gang taking down her awful cousin, Kyle Ron and His Evul Boy Band. Meanwhile somewhere hidden away on a film set, Rian Johnson was making a movie that fell in line with what most of our conclusions and expectations were after seeing the first movie. It's pretty entertaining to see this 2 years later.

I'm sure somewhere Antis claim that Reylos hacked into the official Star Wars twitter account to write that thirst tweet

It was so nice to join this part of SW fandom only as TLJ press was ramping up so I could skip all the horror and dry spells everyone else went through and instead have an officially-sanctioned Reylo validation parade from just a month or two in that hasn't let up since and shows no signs of stopping.

Night Huntress wrote:I'm sure somewhere Antis claim that Reylos hacked into the official Star Wars twitter account to write that thirst tweet

@Night Huntress

There is a girl/woman called Liz (if I remember her name correctly) who’s also running the Star Wars twitter account (among others) and who’s officially a Reylo. So, no hacking .

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

nickandnora wrote:Explains part of the reason he sidelined Finn, lol. Raoul surrogates don't inspire Rian.

Though can I just say that Patrick Wilson in the 2004 film is literally the only actor in the history of ever to make me actually like Raoul, terrible wig notwithstanding.

@nickandnora

Exactly what I thought lol. That tweet is very telling of what he thinks of Finn and Rey as a couple, probably.

Oh my god yes, I <3 <3 Patrick Wilson but that wig was terrible.

Edit: OMG!



Did they just... call out Ben for being thirsty for Rey...

@Kylo Rey

Holy Sith! Finney my a**! Lol! This is unbelievable! Two years ago, not even the biggest Reylo could have imagined stuff like this!

@SoloSideCousin

What I love even more is that someone replied with "I see you SW Twitter" with one of those sipping-tea GIFs, and the account responded with its own sipping-tea GIF. They are so enjoying this.

There's this belief in hater-dom that only Reylos truly, passionately loved TLJ, and if I was running the SW Twitter I might start to believe this. Simply mention Reylo and your notifications explode with happy people. It has to be endearing on some level.

*rushes in*

*breaks door*

DID SOMEONE SAY PHANTOM????!?!?!

1) Okay, I admit it, I rolled my eyes really hard at Rian complaining about Raoul. But again, Rian probably doesn't have the fandom experience I've had. I was mostly in the POTO/musical theatre before joining the SW fandom back in early 2016 (hence why my Tumblr handle is cosetteskywalker), and I tend to be a bit protective of Raoul since I've seen some pretty nasty stuff getting thrown at him - including some really awful homophobic slurs. What also doesn't help is in the ALW musical, it takes an actor that's not only fairly talented, but that also gives a darn about the role - which is a bit of a hard thing to come by. Sean McLaughlin is my favorite Raoul of all time - he played Raoul in the US Tour back in 2010 and also in the Broadway production, and he actually gave him a character arc of his own where he starts out as a aristocrat with a boyish side to him and a bit of a hero complex, who helps Christine come into her own in her own coming-of-age journey and also accepts that he doesn't have to play hero all the time - Christine is there for him, and she's willing to throw her entire life away for his sake.

2) I don't understand for the life of me why they gave Patrick Wilson that hair in the 2004 movie I think his Raoul was sweet, but kind of meh otherwise. What also doesn't really help was that while I love Emmy Rossum, she was too young for the role, in my humble opinion. I have a certain fondness for the 2004 movie - yeah, it's not Casablanca for sure, but it's what got me into POTO and musical theatre in the first time, so I just can't bring myself to hate it. Gerard Butler was horribly miscast as the Phantom - even if he tried his damn best. Best thing in the movie was Jennifer Ellison as Meg Giry, though. First time I saw the movie, I was thinking: "Heck, the movie should focus on her snooping around the Opera House and finding about the Phantom instead, lmao."

3) I don't think it's fair to say Reylo = Erik/Christine and Finnrey = Raoul/Christine? POTO is a whole other best when it comes to the Heroine's Journey and coming of age tropes.

a) The original novel by Gaston Leroux was a mystery novel before anything else, with some gothic horror elements thrown into it. Christine was also less of a damsel in distress: she was a lot more adult and mature and even tells Raoul at some point that she is "mistress of her own destiny". It's a product of its time, too: it's pretty obvious Christine and Raoul are very much in love with each other, and the coming-of-age arc is with Raoul, mostly: he starts out as an idealistic young man who eventually gives up absolutely everything (and I mean everything) just to be with Christine. In the Leroux novel, I actually think Raoul and Ben are very similar There's a bit of a sexual awakening going on with Erik's music and the effect it has on Christine, but it's pretty obvious that she's aware of the thrall it has on her and that she and Raoul need to get the he** out of there. And after Raoul and the Daroga's failed attempt at rescuing her, she ends up saving the day by kissing Erik on the forehead. And he lets her go just with that, and he dies of joy. I'm not even making this up. The Phantom does represent "dangerous sexual desires", but Christine realizes on her own that it's unbalanced and destructive and that the Phantom is ultimately not a force to be reckoned with and dominated, but a tragic monster who just needed a scrap of love he was always denied. The story makes it clear once she finds freedom that she's very much the lady boss. So it's hardly a story of a girl going for the safer "patriarchal" choice.

b) The ALW musical is a bit different, mainly because Christine, well - she starts out as a damsel in distress who gets her own coming-of-age story. The Phantom seduces her at first and The Music of the Night is basically one big metaphor about him attempting to be sexually dominant over her (Samantha Hill in the Broadway production did a particularly good job at acting out that part: you can really see a push-and-pull thing going on with her, with her snapping out of the Phantom's hypnosis and getting scared, but him immediately putting her back under his control), but once she sees under the Phantom's artifices, she obviously gets scared sithless and runs to Raoul. Eventually, she has to realize that if she wants to be truly free, she'll have to take matters under her own hands: The Point of No Return is her realizing that she can actually manipulate the Phantom, and manipulate the situation to her advantage. The Final Lair, in the end, is her being faced with her worst nightmare and having to choose between a) Her fiancé dying and having to live with the guilt of that for the rest of her life all the while being free from the Phantom or b) Raoul living, but being forced to stay under the Phantom's thrall in the sewers for the rest of her life. In the end, she decides that Raoul's life is more important, because he's the love of her life, and she makes the decision of staying with the Phantom, but she's so kind she gives him the scrap of love he never got from anyone. That gives the Phantom a moment of extreme lucidity where he realizes that to truly love is to love selflessly, or rather, to be able to let go to let your loved ones be happy. And that's why he lets Christine go, to let her live a life where she has "proven herself" to Raoul, and where they can live happily, and on an equal footing, since they both learned to love each other selflessly and to know each other's worth.

So yeah, with all this said... Finnrey is basically the sweet relationship where neither character really changes and they just get along. Reylo is the relationship where both are on a coming-of-age journey where they have to learn to be more communicative, trust each other and love each other selflessly. So not really that similar.

This “thirsty” thing is new to me. In fact, I looked it up on Urban Dictionary just the other day to make sure I understood it correctly, but holy heck that sure is clear I nearly choked on my coffee laughing.

With all this phantom referencing - it’s weird because I was talking with a friend of mine about reylo and phantom but also including love never dies - the sequel ( not written by Gaston Leroux but is a musical )which could possibly influence the reylo dynamic ( who knows ?) In love never dies Christine slept with the phantom and had a child( she marries Raoul but her child is the phantom’s
and she and the phantom admit there is no one but each other for them). The phantom in this is a man of power ie in a powerful position ( can’t remember if its that he is a powerful businessman or what ) and he finds out about his son and agrees to provide for him ie he can’t have Christine but wants to make sure his son is ok. There’s also a character in it too who is out to get revenge on the phantom throughout whole musical ( this made me think of Poe ). I haven’t seen this musical but have seen phantom 3 times ( am lucky to live in London Suburbs so it’s not that far a trek to the west end )and it is sublime and wonderful !

Sent from Topic'it App

Thirsty also means will do anything to get attention and boy does that describes pretty much everything Ben does when he's around Rey, like taking off his helmet and shirt, spinning the saber, perfect hair in the Interrogation Scene...every time he acts like a peacock. And don't forget what his father did on the first day he met his mother. Han Solo, also thirsty af to be seen as the galaxy's most bad a** smuggler, especially when he's around a certain young woman:

AhsokaTano wrote:With all this phantom referencing - it’s weird because I was talking with a friend of mine about reylo and phantom but also including love never dies - the sequel ( not written by Gaston Leroux but is a musical )which could possibly influence the reylo dynamic ( who knows ?) In love never dies Christine slept with the phantom and had a child( she marries Raoul but her child is the phantom’s
and she and the phantom admit there is no one but each other for them). The phantom in this is a man of power ie in a powerful position ( can’t remember if its that he is a powerful businessman or what ) and he finds out about his son and agrees to provide for him ie he can’t have Christine but wants to make sure his son is ok. There’s also a character in it too who is out to get revenge on the phantom throughout whole musical ( this made me think of Poe ). I haven’t seen this musical but have seen phantom 3 times ( am lucky to live in London Suburbs so it’s not that far a trek to the west end )and it is sublime and wonderful !

Sent from Topic'it App

@AhsokaTano

I'm not going to lie, I have... a strong dislike for Love Never Dies, and that's mainly because Christine is pretty much turned into a Living MacGuffin whose arc from the original musical gets destroyed and has all agency ripped away from her, and Meg is a walking stereotype of the Clingy Jealous Girl in a pretty sexist way, not to mention they turned the Phantom into an even bigger jerkarse than in the original musical. I honestly wouldn't want it to be similar in any way to Reylo. That's all I'm going to say just to keep it short, lol.

adamdrivershair wrote:
There's this belief in hater-dom that only Reylos truly, passionately loved TLJ, and if I was running the SW Twitter I might start to believe this. Simply mention Reylo and your notifications explode with happy people. It has to be endearing on some level.

@adamdrivershair

We should do an Reylo advertisement:  

- you want enjoy fandom without negativity ?
- you have enough of people constantly whining and complaining about everything ?
- you don't want to be judged, insulted or receiving death threats because you like certain a character dynamic ?
- you prefer intellectual discussions over pointless jabbering from narrow minded people.
- you love analyzing every glance and sentence and reading or writing amazing meta about scenes or the whole movie?

Come and join THE REYLO FANDOM!

I know I know- not everyone in our fandom is a perfect nice & sweet cinnamon role- but compared to the others we're saints

Night Huntress wrote:

adamdrivershair wrote:
There's this belief in hater-dom that only Reylos truly, passionately loved TLJ, and if I was running the SW Twitter I might start to believe this. Simply mention Reylo and your notifications explode with happy people. It has to be endearing on some level.

@adamdrivershair

We should do an Reylo advertisement:  

- you want enjoy fandom without negativity ?
- you have enough of people constantly whining and complaining about everything ?
- you don't want to be judged, insulted or receiving death threats because you like certain a character dynamic ?
- you prefer intellectual discussions over pointless jabbering from narrow minded people.
- you love analyzing every glance and sentence and reading or writing amazing meta about scenes or the whole movie?

Come and join THE REYLO FANDOM!

I know I know- not everyone in our fandom is a perfect nice & sweet cinnamon role- but compared to the others we're saints

@Night Huntress

Remember the ones who were whining for decades, because George Lucas ruined the prequels? The hate some new fans got, especially young girls who were looking up to Padme or fangirling over Anakin (imagine the scenario now, it would be worse on Twitter). Same ones who wanted to start a petition to get Lucas back, after TFA was out.
I am so done with them, believe me. I don’t care what they say or think about certain areas of the fandom. They are also part of this. You don’t own the franchise. The franchise owes you nothing. To think that is pure vanity (remember Luke’s lesson?). So get over it. I also have to live with the thought that Ben might die. Would I waste my energy with hate on social media then? Surely not. I would hate it silently and try to forget it and let people enjoy the things they want to enjoy. The internet and social media are really shitholes. So, if there is a possible of spreading positivity, then do it .

@Irina de France
Oh dear regarding love never dies ! Lol! I haven’t seen it or read the play / script ( just looked it up at the time of discussion with my friend )so I can’t be the judge but I trust and take your word for it regarding how awful it is. I know it didn’t do very well on stage compared to the masterpiece that is phantom . I wouldn’t want kylo and Rey going down this route for episode 9 either because I very much want them together ( and a happy ending hopefully).
@ everyone
Those tweets regarding Ben’s thirst are amazing !lol!Really made my day! What a time to be a reylo!

EchoBase wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

adamdrivershair wrote:
There's this belief in hater-dom that only Reylos truly, passionately loved TLJ, and if I was running the SW Twitter I might start to believe this. Simply mention Reylo and your notifications explode with happy people. It has to be endearing on some level.

@adamdrivershair

We should do an Reylo advertisement:  

- you want enjoy fandom without negativity ?
- you have enough of people constantly whining and complaining about everything ?
- you don't want to be judged, insulted or receiving death threats because you like certain a character dynamic ?
- you prefer intellectual discussions over pointless jabbering from narrow minded people.
- you love analyzing every glance and sentence and reading or writing amazing meta about scenes or the whole movie?

Come and join THE REYLO FANDOM!

I know I know- not everyone in our fandom is a perfect nice & sweet cinnamon role- but compared to the others we're saints

@Night Huntress

Remember the ones who were whining for decades, because George Lucas ruined the prequels? The hate some new fans got, especially young girls who were looking up to Padme or fangirling over Anakin (imagine the scenario now, it would be worse on Twitter). Same ones who wanted to start a petition to get Lucas back, after TFA was out.
I am so done with them, believe me. I don’t care what they say or think about certain areas of the fandom. They are also part of this. You don’t own the franchise. The franchise owes you nothing. To think that is pure vanity (remember Luke’s lesson?). So get over it. I also have to live with the thought that Ben might die. Would I waste my energy with hate on social media then? Surely not. I would hate it silently and try to forget it and let people enjoy the things they want to enjoy. The internet and social media are really shitholes. So, if there is a possible of spreading positivity, then do it .

@EchoBase

Every person in this thread nailing it. It's been discussed in some places that TFA and TLJ are decidedly different movies by decidedly different directors. But honestly, there is more continuity between the two than there was between ANH and ESB, which are completely separate movies with different themes. The only thing connecting all three of the OT movies is the general concept of Luke's hero's journey. How that manifested itself varied wildly between films.

Imagine if there was social media in the 1980s? It would've been horrible. Talk about a lack of consistency. Lucas hadn't decided on the Vader parentage until ESB. I swear we are reliving some of the same arguments today, with the exception that there is probably more planning going on than less, relative to the originals.

People acting like they know every single thing about how the ST is being made, when we don't actually know that much, and the little we do know gets ignored. I've never been too deep into a specific fandom before but DANG can people be ignorant. And then the lies they create spread until they become truth (re:"LF has no plan, TLJ was an unfortunate upset, JJ will fix it").

@EchoBase

I'm not the biggest prequel fan myself... but instead of whining and complaining about what I didn't like I concentrate on the parts I enjoyed about it.
You can't please everyone - the fandom is too big and too diverse in their taste.

If Rian would've made a movie trying to please everyone in the fandom it would've been horrible in my opinion.
It's simply not possible...TLJ has it's flaws- but which movie doesn't? If you watch the OT without the nostalgia and fanboy goggles you have to admit they are far from perfect as well. The story telling and acting is so much better in the ST- but now the children from the late seventies has grown into middle aged nerds, so their perception is different- they just fail to acknowledge that. Instead they blame everything on the movie...

@EchoBase You just described what is was like to be an adult when the PT come out and realize how much better you had it as a kid during the OT when you only talked about the movies with some of your school friends. I mean I knew that there was a fandom, I just had no idea how obnoxious a lot of them were/are. And it's a funny thing how the ST, especially certain parts, re-sparked my interest only to get told that was wrong and meant I wasn't the "right" type of fan (frequently by people who weren't even alive when I was watching the movies that made me a fan in the first place).

And it's a mixed bag b/c I never had direct harassment by other fans 2 years ago b/c I've been a lurker other than here. But it's interesting comparing the two post-film release periods. True that after the home video releases came out with high-res gifs and JJ's commentary, there was nothing for a very long time. Go back in the archives and see how we managed to keep ourselves entertained. Plus there was definitely the solidarity of banding together after the larger fandom were, frankly, exclusionary a**holes. And post-TFA, there was very much just a suspicion backed by knowledge of the filmmakers, the franchise, its influences, and film/literature for all of us to strongly believe that it was going in a certain direction. It was stressful, but also a lot of fun just having conversations about the franchise, related films, and books along with speculation/wish lists for the ST. Hard to believe it was almost a year since the teaser trailer, who was good confirmation, and things started to trickle in around October. 6 months ago. Like actual acknowledgement of oh hey, these two characters interacted before and will interact again. And now we're probably facing down another long wait with Solo in 6 weeks before that's it. What happened in TLJ was definitely exciting and vindication but part of me feels weirdly nostalgic for post-TFA because it was just a group of people with a collective hunch and figuring out the mystery was a huge part of the fun. Now that it's confirmed, it becomes more of a question of how things will be resolved. There will be a resolution, good or bad, there's just no mystery to chase after the way we did from Spring 2016 to about the Fall of 2017. Which is a little less fun IMO - though the SW Social Media team Tweets are certainly very entertaining to watch given the past history.

Night Huntress wrote:@EchoBase

I'm not the biggest prequel fan myself... but instead of whining and complaining about what I didn't like I concentrate on the parts I enjoyed about it.
You can't please everyone - the fandom is too big and too diverse in their taste.

If Rian would've made a movie trying to please everyone in the fandom it would've been horrible in my opinion.
It's simply not possible...TLJ has it's flaws- but which movie doesn't? If you watch the OT without the nostalgia and fanboy goggles you have to admit they are far from perfect as well. The story telling and acting is so much better in the ST- but now the children from the late seventies has grown into middle aged nerds, so their perception is different- they just fail to acknowledge that. Instead they blame everything on the movie...

@Night Huntress

All I know is... Luke’s “baby gurl” TLJ would’ve sucked. That sexual tension between Rey and Kylo was  

snufkin wrote:@EchoBase You just described what is was like to be an adult when the PT come out and realize how much better you had it as a kid during the OT when you only talked about the movies with some of your school friends. I mean I knew that there was a fandom, I just had no idea how obnoxious a lot of them were/are. And it's a funny thing how the ST, especially certain parts, re-sparked my interest only to get told that was wrong and meant I wasn't the "right" type of fan (frequently by people who weren't even alive when I was watching the movies that made me a fan in the first place).

And it's a mixed bag b/c I never had direct harassment by other fans 2 years ago b/c I've been a lurker other than here. But it's interesting comparing the two post-film release periods. True that after the home video releases came out with high-res gifs and JJ's commentary, there was nothing for a very long time. Go back in the archives and see how we managed to keep ourselves entertained. Plus there was definitely the solidarity of banding together after the larger fandom were, frankly, exclusionary a**holes. And post-TFA, there was very much just a suspicion backed by knowledge of the filmmakers, the franchise, its influences, and film/literature for all of us to strongly believe that it was going in a certain direction. It was stressful, but also a lot of fun just having conversations about the franchise, related films, and books along with speculation/wish lists for the ST. Hard to believe it was almost a year since the teaser trailer, who was good confirmation, and things started to trickle in around October. 6 months ago. Like actual acknowledgement of oh hey, these two characters interacted before and will interact again. And now we're probably facing down another long wait with Solo in 6 weeks before that's it. What happened in TLJ was definitely exciting and vindication but part of me feels weirdly nostalgic for post-TFA because it was just a group of people with a collective hunch and figuring out the mystery was a huge part of the fun. Now that it's confirmed, it becomes more of a question of how things will be resolved. There will be a resolution, good or bad, there's just no mystery to chase after the way we did from Spring 2016 to about the Fall of 2017. Which is a little less fun IMO - though the SW Social Media team Tweets are certainly very entertaining to watch given the past history.

@snufkin

It all sounds so stressful. So much waiting and the entire fanbase missing the point of TFA and the ST outside its nostalgia factor. That's still kind of what it feels like now, but at least not entirely. The entire reason I started lurking here was because TLJ marketing was far along enough where the near-absence of Kylo/Adam was getting weird, and there was only one group of people that seemed to even notice, let alone care. It did, for however brief a time before September when Rian finally started gushing about Kylo and "two halves" and so on, feel like this little club nobody noticed, that saw a thing no one else did, over in a corner of the internet no one saw.

It's easy to forget here because we think so many aspects of Reylo/the ST are foregone conclusions, but a good chunk of the fanbase and GA is still in the dark. IX is going to be a total shock and BLOW people's minds. To some, we are still the delusional and immoral people who are shallow and sexist and promote emotional manipulation/abuse and shouldn't feel bad for the Fascist Overlord who has now ascended Vader in his utter complete evilness.

Reylo is much more in the public eye now, to the point where many sites use it as clickbait, it isn't really niche anymore. But JJ and Co. still have an uphill battle. It's just that the fanboys don't see LF is already partway up that hill.

And after 6-7 months of almost nonstop goodness, we are all entitled and just want more.

@californiagirl Oh for sure it was stressful b/c a lot of us got suspicious after seeing TFA, that's what was so interesting/unique about it, most fans were jerks in response, and the thought of "maybe they'll just do something dumb and cliched" was hugely disappointing. We got little trickles, like the Ireland "spoilers" photos, Bothan Spy (RIP) spilling THE SPOILER to Reddit, and JJ's Blue Ray commentary track. And then nothing for a year until Rian's NYT article dropped the day before Trevorrow got ousted from IX. But what can I say? A lot of us enjoyed the camaraderie of being the small % of fans who figured out that there was a puzzle to be solved and spent time putting the pieces together.