Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

[Riri]

Yep saw that tumblr post and it was a great read. It also made me realise that Annakins love for Padme fell under the "desperate" unbrella where he couldn't live without her and that in turn led to his fall. I expect Kylo/Rey to have a much more healthy relationship which is why both of their agency is so important, it'll allow them to be their own person and make choices for themselves etc

[Xylo Ren]

@ZioRen

Fck. That was so good.

[MyOnlyHope]

I sometimes see people say that they wished for Rey to take Kylo's proposal in TLJ, but IMO this turn would have been a total disaster for the long-term romantic Reylo. The story would never end there with Rey and Kylo as the benevolent dictators of the galaxy spreading peace and goodwill everywhere; it would probably be about Rey "coming to her senses", finding her way back to the Resistance and her friends and abandoning Kylo.

@Saracene

I sometimes see people say that they wished for Rey to take Kylo's proposal in TLJ, but IMO this turn would have been a total disaster for the long-term romantic Reylo. The story would never end there with Rey and Kylo as the benevolent dictators of the galaxy spreading peace and goodwill everywhere; it would probably be about Rey "coming to her senses", finding her way back to the Resistance and her friends and abandoning Kylo.

@Saracene
So much this. Well said!

[ISeeAnIsland]

I sometimes see people say that they wished for Rey to take Kylo's proposal in TLJ, but IMO this turn would have been a total disaster for the long-term romantic Reylo. The story would never end there with Rey and Kylo as the benevolent dictators of the galaxy spreading peace and goodwill everywhere; it would probably be about Rey "coming to her senses", finding her way back to the Resistance and her friends and abandoning Kylo.

@Saracene

I love the Rey-takes-Kylo's-hand as a prompt for fanfiction, but you are absolutely correct that had that happened, it would have spelled doom for a happy Reylo endgame couple.

[IoJovi]

I sometimes see people say that they wished for Rey to take Kylo's proposal in TLJ, but IMO this turn would have been a total disaster for the long-term romantic Reylo. The story would never end there with Rey and Kylo as the benevolent dictators of the galaxy spreading peace and goodwill everywhere; it would probably be about Rey "coming to her senses", finding her way back to the Resistance and her friends and abandoning Kylo.

@Saracene

I love the Rey-takes-Kylo's-hand as a prompt for fanfiction, but you are absolutely correct that had that happened, it would have spelled doom for a happy Reylo endgame couple.

@ISeeAnIsland

Great post! It’s the same reason in hindsight I am glad we did not get a kiss. It leaves it on the table for the next episode, instead of making the romance between Rey and Ben a one episode story arc with a beginning and an end.

[snufkin]

Oh there's absolutely no way things would've worked out other than tragedy if Rey had accepted his offer. It's also a 2nd Gate or Trial for her. First one was turning down the 60 portions when she was starving because BB-8 was the first real friend/relationship she'd had (also likely the same Devil's Bargain her parents made with Plutt to sell her). Second one was turning down Ben's proposal when she's also been shown to be hungry/starving for belonging, companionship, and love. Likely his "not to me" line is the closest anybody has come to telling her that they love her. She's offered the two immediate things she needs the most, nourishment and sustainment and resists them because of her moral code/strength of character. If she had accepted his offer, it wouldn't have just been death for her friends in the Resistance, but that things would've gone bad for her and Ben in his scheme to start a new order. Like end of the PT levels of tragedy for the both of them.

[Kessel]

I agree about Rey not accepting Kylo’s offer. It was not the right time or circumstances for them to unite. That leaves the resolution of their relationship for Episode IX. Lots of potential for drama and conflicted feelings.

[SheLitAFire]

I love one of my guy friends so much. We were talking about the new Farce Awakens video (posted in the parodies thread) with the love letters to Rey. And he was like "wow, can you imagine if Rey really did get pregnant from just the hand touching?"
And I was like "well I got pregnant from the hand touching, that's for sure!"
and he was like "me too" hahaha
This is my friend who believed she was Luke's daughter until I told him that it wasn't likely (I explained more) and then he was like "ok, I believe you because you're an intelligent person"

[Birdwoman]

Me casually watching ROTJ on tv, Luke says to Vader...'I sense the conflict in you....' Me, I perk up....look at my husband: 'See that, Rey said something similar to Kylo. Just think Vader, the child killer, still got redeemed. That means expletive expletive Kylo can be redeemed also!' My husband: 'Yes, honey I think this is a hint about his redemption.' Lol

[Reynak]

There are some posts on tumblr about why Rey left after Ben’s proposal and why she didn’t explain why she rejected him, if there could have been a kiss in the lift or immediately after their fight against the praetorian guard. I don't think the kiss woud have made the scenes better but rather the opposite. I’ll explain why.

I didn’t think they were going to smooch after the fight or in the lift. In the lift scene I felt too much awkward tension, as if both of them felt uncomfortable, specially him. He also met her in a very detached way, he seemed aloof and she wasn’t sure what to expect after his less than enthusiastic welcome, so to speak.

I know there was nothing else he could do because he was supposed to bring her to Snoke, not to be besotted with her and let it show. She was also hand-cuffed and I didn’t like to see her hands bound like that. If they had kissed while she was bound it wound have given the wrong vibe. Dudebros and antis would have had the perfect reason to start comparing Reylo to 50 Shades of Grey and all that stuff again. So I’m glad there was no kiss there.

They were going to meet Snoke, the big bad guy, so they had too much to think about, like her survival for instance. There were reasons to be worried, not to think about kissing for the first time.

After the fight they ended up far apart and both of them had more pressing matters at hand. She had to save her friends and he had done something huge by killing the man who’d thoroughly abused and groomed him into a killing machine without identity or independence for his whole life. Snoke was also his father figure, the one who never let go off him, as twisted as this is, he was the one who never gave up on Kylo or abandoned him. The way Kylo looked at the pathetic dead figure was heartbreaking , he looked stunned and shocked.

In that moment in which his whole life imploded (because the First Order had become his life after he ran away from Luke scared and horrified ) he thought of Rey and did much more than smooching her, he proposed. That was much more important than a heat of the moment kiss. He offered her the whole galaxy and a place by side, as his equal. He didn’t use the same words as Mr Darcy ( “do me the honour of accepting my hand” ) but he did offer her his hand, just like Darcy.

We know because of what Eddie Redmayne said about his own audition for the role that they used P&P lines in Kylo Ren’s auditions. They did that for a reason, so P&P parallels are based on something. Ben fucks up his proposal because he is meant to fail at this point and he insults his beloved but without meaning to. Both Darcy’s and Ben Solo’s proposals are as full of deep passionate love as they are offensive to the women they adore. But this is what makes a good story, there must be drama and major obstacles on the way before its final resolution. A romantic story isn’t any different and TLJ is a just the second movie in the trilogy, so he had to f**** it up big time after what he did for her and she must have a reason to leave him the way she did.

If they had been back to back at the end of the fight they might have kissed, but that wound have felt quite cheesy. It may be OK for another sort of movie where being cliched as hell didn’t matter or a tongue in cheek move but what Rian did in this movie was never that and I’m glad for it. This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have loved to see that kiss. Have you seen Adam kissing on screen? That’s worth it, great kisser, but Rian chose the right move, the one that will feel better in the long run. We’ll have to wait for that kiss and after building up the expectations the way they did in TLJ it will be memorable.

Rian also managed to create amazingly erotic scenes without a single kiss and that was incredibly satisfying in itself. I think they compensated for the absence of kisses.

That sort or mirror Snoke had in his throne room was a reference to a beloved Disney movie, Beauty and the Beast, and a way to make them part without having the chance to talk, maybe to tell each other about their feelings and perhaps find a common ground, a solution that could have suited them both. But for narrative reasons she had to bring up immediately what separated them lest her friends would die. They were on different sides of a war and this couldn’t change in the blink of an eye, so he didn’t go with her and she couldn’t stay with him either.

Where a kiss felt inevitable was in the hut scene, IMO. The scene was so intimate, so romatically and erotically charged and they were alone quietly, with no other matters pressing upon them, there was nothing and nobody apart from Rey and Ben in that hut. No Resistance, no First Order, no war and no past pressing them, only Rey and Ben wanting to feel each other and know each other in all senses. If uncle Luke hadn’t burst into the hut and made it explode they would have kissed, and very likely have done more than that.

[DeeBee]

There are some posts on tumblr about why Rey left after Ben’s proposal and why she didn’t explain why she rejected him, if there could have been a kiss in the lift or immediately after their fight against the praetorian guard. I don't think the kiss woud have made the scenes better but rather the opposite. I’ll explain why.

I didn’t think they were going to smooch after the fight or in the lift. In the lift scene I felt too much awkward tension, as if both of them felt uncomfortable, specially him. He also met her in a very detached way, he seemed aloof and she wasn’t sure what to expect after his less than enthisiastic welcome, so to speak.

I know there was nothing else he could do because he was supposed to bring her to Snoke, not to be besotted with her and let it show. She was also hand-cuffed and I didn’t like to see her hands bound like that. If they had kissed while she was bound it wound have given the wrong vibe. Dudebros and antis would have had the perfect reason to start comparing Reylo to 50 Shades of Grey and all that stuff again. So I’m glad there was no kiss there.

They were going to meet Snoke, the big bad guy, so they had too much to think about, like her survival for instance. There were reasons to be worried, not to think about kissing for the first time.

After the fight they ended up far apart and both of them had more pressing matters on hand. She had to save her friends and he had done something huge by killing the man who’d thoroughly abused and groomed him into a killing machine without identity or independence for his whole life. Snoke was also his father figure, the one who never let go off him, as twisted as this is, he was the one who never gave up on Kylo or abandoned him. The way Kylo looked at the pathetic dead figure was hearbreaking, he looked stunned and shocked.
In that moment in which his whole life imploded (because the First Order had become his life after he ran away from Luke scared and horrified ) he thought of Rey and did much more than smooching her, he proposed. That was much more important than a heat of the moment kiss. He offered her the whole galaxy and a place by side, as his equal. He didn’t use the same words as Mr Darcy ( “do me the honour of accepting my hand” ) but he did offer her his hand, just like Darcy.

We know because of what Eddie Redmayne said about his own audition for the role that they used P&P lines in Kylo Ren’s auditions. They did that for a reason, so P&P parallels are bases on something. Ben fucks up his proposal because he is meant to fail at this point and he insults his beloved but without meaning to. Both Darcy’s and Ben Solo’s proposals are as full of deep passionate love as they are offensive to the women they adore. But this is what makes a good story, there must be drama and major obstacles on the way before its final resolution. A romantic story isn’t any different and TLJ is a just the second movie in the trilogy, so he had to f**** it up big time after what he did for her and she must have a reason to leave him the way she did.

If they had been back to back at the end of the fight they might have kissed, but that wound have felt quite cheesy. It may be OK for another sort of movie where being cliched as hell didn’t matter or a tongue in cheek move but what Rian did in this movie was never that and I’m glad for it. This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have loved to see that kiss. Have you seen Adam kissing on screen? That’s worth it, great kisser, but Rian chose the right move, the one that will feel better in the long run. We’ll have to wait for that kiss and after building up the expectations the way they did in TLJ it will be memorable.

Rian also managed to create amazingly erotic scenes without a single kiss and that was incredibly satisfying in itself. I think they compensated for the absence of kisses.

That sort or mirror Snoke had in his throne room was a reference to a beloved Disney movie, Beauty and the Beast, and a way to make them part without having the chance to talk, maybe to tell each other about their feelings and perhaps find a common ground, a solution that could have suited them both. But for narrative reasons she had to bring up immediately what separated them lest her friends would die. They were on different sides of a war and this couldn’t change in the blink of an eye, so he didn’t go with her and she couldn’t stay with him either.
Where a kiss felt inevitable was in the hut scene, IMO. The scene was so intimate, so romatically and erotically charged and they were alone quietly, with no other matters pressing upon them, there was nothing and nobody apart from Rey and Ben in that hut. No Resistance, no First Order, no war and no past pressing them, only Rey and Ben wanting to feel each other and know each other in all senses. If uncle Luke hadn’t bursted into the hut and made it explode they would have kissed, and very likely have done more than that.

@Reynak

So beautiful Reynak! I agree with you - storywise it made sense for them to not kiss in the throne room.
I hoped for a kiss heading into TLJ. But.. while watching the scenes play out there was never actually a moment where I thought they would kiss - it made sense... and it would have felt forced. You described well why it was just not possible and all the outside competing forces that stopped it in that moment.

A part of me wants to curse RJ for not giving us a kiss... but another part of me wants to thank him for resisting that temptation and putting off the kiss till it is the right time for the characters in IX. Tough job! I can imagine he will be watching IX and cheering when they do finally kiss.

Loved your thoughts on the Darcy declaration!
I know others will see this differently to me and that's okay.. I suspect I may be a little against the tide here..
For me, I think offering to rule by his side is a huge and significant thing - but I actually think it would have been even more real, vulnerable and honest of him to tell her he loves her, and that he wants to live his life with her by his side..
A marriage proposal that is a guy offering a girl his heart (yes notting hill reference) is IMHO much more powerful and meaningful than the next SL offering to rule side by side with her because she is not nothing to him and without saying any words of love.

For me Kylo/Ben's offer was not the same as a marriage proposal and I felt he hedged his bets somewhat - while still in a sense offering a Mr Darcy type of screwed up offer lol. He was still protecting himself and he didn't make a full love declaration at that point.. his bringing up her parents and all that in this moment to try and sway her also to me says he was not fully there yet. Like he thinks he has to offer for her to rule, and for her to be somebody in order for her to say yes. [edited to add- he also threw in there the I'm from a really important family in history and you can be a part of that if you are with me selling point. Aie!]
It's like he thinks being with him, and giving her his heart would not be enough. Poor Benny... he has messed it up.. such a beautiful mess... it's going to be wonderful to watch him triumph and pull through..

One thought Reynak, yes the hut scene was much more intimate - however - Kylo/Ben was on a first order ship somewhere in front of a computer screen.
[we see this when he looks around to check no one is watching as he takes off the glove. HOOOO HAAAA]

I think it would have been hilarious had they tried to kiss each other then.. we could have cut back to Kylo/Ben back on the destroyer licking his computer screen whaahahahaah  

[snufkin]

@Reynak - You reminded me of the philosophy of the great (and criminally underemployed) Australian director Peter Weir, who set up two very hot relationships in Witness (which was Harrison Ford's first big role outside of Lucasfilm & first step into stardom) and The Year of Living Dangerously (RIP Mel Gibson before he went crazy, abusive, and anti-Semitic). In both films there's a "we're so into each other but we're on opposite sides of things and are supposed to stay away from each other" dynamic

Speaking of "Witness", that film contains one of the most erotic scenes in the movies - the sequence when Ford dances with Kelly McGillis in the barn. In fact, all of the romantic scenes in your movies have an unusual intensity to them. How do you approach scenes like this?

Whenever anyone says to me, "You should read that script - it's very erotic," I say, "Well, then the film won't be." If anyone sets out to do it, they almost always fail. It's something that happens. I don't think I've ever planned it. It's a matter of taking advantage of a situation that seems the right way to go, and then you become aware that this will probably be what is called "erotic". Which is simply another word for tension, a rare form of it. It's not just sexual tension. You begin and end with Hitchcock, it's all through his films. You come to the obvious conclusion that Hitchcock was a very handsome man artistically, a Cary Grant of the spirit imprisoned in a rotund body. From the secret cave this Cary Grant existed in, Hitchcock lived his other lives. By looking at his key pictures you learn a great deal about how a man and a woman move around together on-screen.

[giaciak2]

There are some posts on tumblr about why Rey left after Ben’s proposal and why she didn’t explain why she rejected him, if there could have been a kiss in the lift or immediately after their fight against the praetorian guard. I don't think the kiss woud have made the scenes better but rather the opposite. I’ll explain why.

I didn’t think they were going to smooch after the fight or in the lift. In the lift scene I felt too much awkward tension, as if both of them felt uncomfortable, specially him. He also met her in a very detached way, he seemed aloof and she wasn’t sure what to expect after his less than enthusiastic welcome, so to speak.

I know there was nothing else he could do because he was supposed to bring her to Snoke, not to be besotted with her and let it show. She was also hand-cuffed and I didn’t like to see her hands bound like that. If they had kissed while she was bound it wound have given the wrong vibe. Dudebros and antis would have had the perfect reason to start comparing Reylo to 50 Shades of Grey and all that stuff again. So I’m glad there was no kiss there.

They were going to meet Snoke, the big bad guy, so they had too much to think about, like her survival for instance. There were reasons to be worried, not to think about kissing for the first time.

After the fight they ended up far apart and both of them had more pressing matters at hand. She had to save her friends and he had done something huge by killing the man who’d thoroughly abused and groomed him into a killing machine without identity or independence for his whole life. Snoke was also his father figure, the one who never let go off him, as twisted as this is, he was the one who never gave up on Kylo or abandoned him. The way Kylo looked at the pathetic dead figure was heartbreaking , he looked stunned and shocked.

In that moment in which his whole life imploded (because the First Order had become his life after he ran away from Luke scared and horrified ) he thought of Rey and did much more than smooching her, he proposed. That was much more important than a heat of the moment kiss. He offered her the whole galaxy and a place by side, as his equal. He didn’t use the same words as Mr Darcy ( “do me the honour of accepting my hand” ) but he did offer her his hand, just like Darcy.

We know because of what Eddie Redmayne said about his own audition for the role that they used P&P lines in Kylo Ren’s auditions. They did that for a reason, so P&P parallels are based on something. Ben fucks up his proposal because he is meant to fail at this point and he insults his beloved but without meaning to. Both Darcy’s and Ben Solo’s proposals are as full of deep passionate love as they are offensive to the women they adore. But this is what makes a good story, there must be drama and major obstacles on the way before its final resolution. A romantic story isn’t any different and TLJ is a just the second movie in the trilogy, so he had to f**** it up big time after what he did for her and she must have a reason to leave him the way she did.

If they had been back to back at the end of the fight they might have kissed, but that wound have felt quite cheesy. It may be OK for another sort of movie where being cliched as hell didn’t matter or a tongue in cheek move but what Rian did in this movie was never that and I’m glad for it. This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have loved to see that kiss. Have you seen Adam kissing on screen? That’s worth it, great kisser, but Rian chose the right move, the one that will feel better in the long run. We’ll have to wait for that kiss and after building up the expectations the way they did in TLJ it will be memorable.

Rian also managed to create amazingly erotic scenes without a single kiss and that was incredibly satisfying in itself. I think they compensated for the absence of kisses.

That sort or mirror Snoke had in his throne room was a reference to a beloved Disney movie, Beauty and the Beast, and a way to make them part without having the chance to talk, maybe to tell each other about their feelings and perhaps find a common ground, a solution that could have suited them both. But for narrative reasons she had to bring up immediately what separated them lest her friends would die. They were on different sides of a war and this couldn’t change in the blink of an eye, so he didn’t go with her and she couldn’t stay with him either.

Where a kiss felt inevitable was in the hut scene, IMO. The scene was so intimate, so romatically and erotically charged and they were alone quietly, with no other matters pressing upon them, there was nothing and nobody apart from Rey and Ben in that hut. No Resistance, no First Order, no war and no past pressing them, only Rey and Ben wanting to feel each other and know each other in all senses. If uncle Luke hadn’t burst into the hut and made it explode they would have kissed, and very likely have done more than that.

@Reynak
Oh !!! I like what you wrote. The kiss in the hut would been fine. It would also be a great motive to get Ray away from him and for him kill Snoke without hesitation (I imagine Kylo thinking:" I kill Snoke and then resume the argument with Rey ... ).
I hope that in the IX episode, the space given to Rey with Ben / Kylo is real. I wouldn't like it if it was all mental connection. It would be nice if they spent time together in a simple way, not just saber in hand or read me in the mind. Or all war movie and only two final scenes where they together.

[Teo oswald]

the scene of the hut exudes sensuality, the air at the cinema had suddenly heated up
Rian did a great job with Reylo, the kiss for me was not supposed to be because it would ruin the thread of their development

the kiss is an event that shows that both want the other and want to be together. side by side
In the last Jedi, neither of them was willing to leave and then, remember that Rey saw Kylo at that moment and not Ben Solo.

[giaciak2]

There are some posts on tumblr about why Rey left after Ben’s proposal and why she didn’t explain why she rejected him, if there could have been a kiss in the lift or immediately after their fight against the praetorian guard. I don't think the kiss woud have made the scenes better but rather the opposite. I’ll explain why.

I didn’t think they were going to smooch after the fight or in the lift. In the lift scene I felt too much awkward tension, as if both of them felt uncomfortable, specially him. He also met her in a very detached way, he seemed aloof and she wasn’t sure what to expect after his less than enthusiastic welcome, so to speak.

I know there was nothing else he could do because he was supposed to bring her to Snoke, not to be besotted with her and let it show. She was also hand-cuffed and I didn’t like to see her hands bound like that. If they had kissed while she was bound it wound have given the wrong vibe. Dudebros and antis would have had the perfect reason to start comparing Reylo to 50 Shades of Grey and all that stuff again. So I’m glad there was no kiss there.

They were going to meet Snoke, the big bad guy, so they had too much to think about, like her survival for instance. There were reasons to be worried, not to think about kissing for the first time.

After the fight they ended up far apart and both of them had more pressing matters at hand. She had to save her friends and he had done something huge by killing the man who’d thoroughly abused and groomed him into a killing machine without identity or independence for his whole life. Snoke was also his father figure, the one who never let go off him, as twisted as this is, he was the one who never gave up on Kylo or abandoned him. The way Kylo looked at the pathetic dead figure was heartbreaking , he looked stunned and shocked.

In that moment in which his whole life imploded (because the First Order had become his life after he ran away from Luke scared and horrified ) he thought of Rey and did much more than smooching her, he proposed. That was much more important than a heat of the moment kiss. He offered her the whole galaxy and a place by side, as his equal. He didn’t use the same words as Mr Darcy ( “do me the honour of accepting my hand” ) but he did offer her his hand, just like Darcy.

We know because of what Eddie Redmayne said about his own audition for the role that they used P&P lines in Kylo Ren’s auditions. They did that for a reason, so P&P parallels are based on something. Ben fucks up his proposal because he is meant to fail at this point and he insults his beloved but without meaning to. Both Darcy’s and Ben Solo’s proposals are as full of deep passionate love as they are offensive to the women they adore. But this is what makes a good story, there must be drama and major obstacles on the way before its final resolution. A romantic story isn’t any different and TLJ is a just the second movie in the trilogy, so he had to f**** it up big time after what he did for her and she must have a reason to leave him the way she did.

If they had been back to back at the end of the fight they might have kissed, but that wound have felt quite cheesy. It may be OK for another sort of movie where being cliched as hell didn’t matter or a tongue in cheek move but what Rian did in this movie was never that and I’m glad for it. This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have loved to see that kiss. Have you seen Adam kissing on screen? That’s worth it, great kisser, but Rian chose the right move, the one that will feel better in the long run. We’ll have to wait for that kiss and after building up the expectations the way they did in TLJ it will be memorable.

Rian also managed to create amazingly erotic scenes without a single kiss and that was incredibly satisfying in itself. I think they compensated for the absence of kisses.

That sort or mirror Snoke had in his throne room was a reference to a beloved Disney movie, Beauty and the Beast, and a way to make them part without having the chance to talk, maybe to tell each other about their feelings and perhaps find a common ground, a solution that could have suited them both. But for narrative reasons she had to bring up immediately what separated them lest her friends would die. They were on different sides of a war and this couldn’t change in the blink of an eye, so he didn’t go with her and she couldn’t stay with him either.

Where a kiss felt inevitable was in the hut scene, IMO. The scene was so intimate, so romatically and erotically charged and they were alone quietly, with no other matters pressing upon them, there was nothing and nobody apart from Rey and Ben in that hut. No Resistance, no First Order, no war and no past pressing them, only Rey and Ben wanting to feel each other and know each other in all senses. If uncle Luke hadn’t burst into the hut and made it explode they would have kissed, and very likely have done more than that.

@Reynak
I found this on tumbrl. I think it's nice. http://afterblossom.tumblr.com/

[snufkin]

Speaking of the whole "it was platonic, nothing to see here. Move along!" argument, I'd forgot about this article we'd discussed back in the early days. Seems like

Sex Is Funny. Love Is Funny. So Where Are All Our Great Romantic Comedies?

My favorite movies have always been love stories. Even if a movie is about many things, it’s the love story that I remember. I saw Mad Max, and of course, I was stunned by the action sequences, the production design, the lean, effective storytelling, and that’s probably what I’d talk about at a dinner party. But honestly, my favorite part of that movie was the love story. For me, Mad Max is the story of two broken, incredible people falling in love, and if you get me drunk enough, I might even argue that Mad Max was one of the best love stories that came out last year.

The problem with talking about “romantic comedy” is the word “romance.” I’m not exactly sure what that word means — it’s been invaded and colonized and sanitized, until it has come to represent something a married couple might do on their anniversary to mix it up a little, and look, I understand that’s not what people want to see in a movie. I’m talking about desire. I wish we could rename the genre. “Desire comedies”? “Erotic comedies”? Although the word “erotic” sounds like something said by a sex therapist sitting on a floor mat drinking orange juice and holding an enormous dildo. So, let’s forget that, and just talk about desire.

A great romantic comedy is driven by two characters who want each other, in spite of themselves. Maybe they end up together at the end and maybe they don’t, the important thing is that they want to have sex with each other. Desire isn’t necessarily cute or sweet. Desire is sometimes a dragon that needs to be slayed, and it can push a character to the dizzy, insane places where the best comedy lives. A great romantic comedy is hot. (I refuse to say “sexy.” I refuse.) We don’t need to see the characters go as far as they do in Bull Durham, although I have nothing against it. The most important thing is chemistry between the stars, and that has nothing to do with the amount of actual sex the characters have.

Think about Henry Fonda fumbling with Barbara Stanwyck’s shoes in The Lady Eve, or the way Tony Curtis looks at Marilyn Monroe for the first time in Some Like It Hot. What about Grace Kelly and Cary Grant watching fireworks in To Catch a Thief, or that flimsy sheet dividing Clark Gable from Claudette Colbert in It Happened One Night? Let’s throw in every time Cary Grant looks at Katharine Hepburn in Philadelphia Story, Jane Fonda and Robert Redford in the elevator in the beginning of Barefoot in the Park, and what about Audrey Hepburn and Albert Finney in, possibly my favorite romantic comedy of all time, Two for the Road? Think about Alicia Silverstone and Paul Rudd going over those depositions in Clueless, or the endless conversations between Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy in the Before trilogy, or Julie Delpy and Adam Goldberg in Two Days in Paris, or Chris Rock and Rosario Dawson in Top Five. Those are hot conversations! They are having sex with words! Am I embarrassing myself? Sex scenes or no sex scenes, good romantic comedy is hot romantic comedy. (I could write a whole other essay about the way male movie stars used to look at their female co-stars with this mixture of awe and longing, and how I much I miss those looks in films these days, but I will spare you.)

I know some of the fans making that argument are engaging in hair splitting b/c things didn't go the way they think (want) them to go. But for a lot of us, we came to this conclusion after seeing TFA because the above elements were there. And wow, who had multiple intense and intimate conversations for the central plotline of this film?

[tukicarreno]

I agree that the best outcome was to not have a kiss yet in TLJ. I would have loved to have one in the hut scene, but Rian did the right thing.

BTW do you guys think JJ will give us two kisses or one in episode IX? Maybe one half way and one towards the end?

I would love two, but I have a feeling we will only get one towards the very end. Still...I have no doubt it will be the most passionate, epic kiss in the whole SW saga.  Comparable to the Mr. Darcy/Mr Darcy kiss scene at the end of P&P. Ahhh! Just to think about it, makes me so giddy and excited!    Sigh just need to wait a year and a half for it, I can do it! Patience my friend

[SoloSideCousin]

Speaking of the whole "it was platonic, nothing to see here. Move along!" argument, I'd forgot about this article we'd discussed back in the early days. Seems like

Sex Is Funny. Love Is Funny. So Where Are All Our Great Romantic Comedies?

My favorite movies have always been love stories. Even if a movie is about many things, it’s the love story that I remember. I saw Mad Max, and of course, I was stunned by the action sequences, the production design, the lean, effective storytelling, and that’s probably what I’d talk about at a dinner party. But honestly, my favorite part of that movie was the love story. For me, Mad Max is the story of two broken, incredible people falling in love, and if you get me drunk enough, I might even argue that Mad Max was one of the best love stories that came out last year.

The problem with talking about “romantic comedy” is the word “romance.” I’m not exactly sure what that word means — it’s been invaded and colonized and sanitized, until it has come to represent something a married couple might do on their anniversary to mix it up a little, and look, I understand that’s not what people want to see in a movie. I’m talking about desire. I wish we could rename the genre. “Desire comedies”? “Erotic comedies”? Although the word “erotic” sounds like something said by a sex therapist sitting on a floor mat drinking orange juice and holding an enormous dildo. So, let’s forget that, and just talk about desire.

A great romantic comedy is driven by two characters who want each other, in spite of themselves. Maybe they end up together at the end and maybe they don’t, the important thing is that they want to have sex with each other. Desire isn’t necessarily cute or sweet. Desire is sometimes a dragon that needs to be slayed, and it can push a character to the dizzy, insane places where the best comedy lives. A great romantic comedy is hot. (I refuse to say “sexy.” I refuse.) We don’t need to see the characters go as far as they do in Bull Durham, although I have nothing against it. The most important thing is chemistry between the stars, and that has nothing to do with the amount of actual sex the characters have.

Think about Henry Fonda fumbling with Barbara Stanwyck’s shoes in The Lady Eve, or the way Tony Curtis looks at Marilyn Monroe for the first time in Some Like It Hot. What about Grace Kelly and Cary Grant watching fireworks in To Catch a Thief, or that flimsy sheet dividing Clark Gable from Claudette Colbert in It Happened One Night? Let’s throw in every time Cary Grant looks at Katharine Hepburn in Philadelphia Story, Jane Fonda and Robert Redford in the elevator in the beginning of Barefoot in the Park, and what about Audrey Hepburn and Albert Finney in, possibly my favorite romantic comedy of all time, Two for the Road? Think about Alicia Silverstone and Paul Rudd going over those depositions in Clueless, or the endless conversations between Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy in the Before trilogy, or Julie Delpy and Adam Goldberg in Two Days in Paris, or Chris Rock and Rosario Dawson in Top Five. Those are hot conversations! They are having sex with words! Am I embarrassing myself? Sex scenes or no sex scenes, good romantic comedy is hot romantic comedy. (I could write a whole other essay about the way male movie stars used to look at their female co-stars with this mixture of awe and longing, and how I much I miss those looks in films these days, but I will spare you.)

I know some of the fans making that argument are engaging in hair splitting b/c things didn't go the way they think (want) them to go. But for a lot of us, we came to this conclusion after seeing TFA because the above elements were there. And wow, who had multiple intense and intimate conversations for the central plotline of this film?

@snufkin

Also, the ST has been full of shots of a male character looking at a female character with "awe and longing."

[Teo oswald]

@tukicarreno

more than anything else, there was no need for a kiss between kylo and Rey, there was everything in the scene of the hut and in the duel against the Praetorian guards.in the scene of the hut we felt the tension and intimacy but a kiss would change everything. If they had added a kiss, it would have been a forced choice. instead it must happen in a natural way. there must be a scene that makes you understand at that moment there will be the fateful kiss. the kiss between Finn and Rose was nice to see but for me it was not necessary in "that precise moment". if they did it sooner or later it would have been better. in any case, I was pleased to see them interact

[snufkin]

@SoloSideCousin - that look of awe and longing from Poe in the 10 seconds Rey interacts with him in the ST. They’re definitely going to be a thing in the next film based on that/s.

[Night Huntress]

@SoloSideCousin - that look of awe and longing from Poe in the 10 seconds Rey interacts with him in the ST. They’re definitely going to be a thing in the next film based on that/s.

@snufkin

I don't think so... we don't need even more reasons to dislike his character

[rey09]

@SoloSideCousin - that look of awe and longing from Poe in the 10 seconds Rey interacts with him in the ST. They’re definitely going to be a thing in the next film based on that/s.

@snufkin

I was talking to some friends, one who is a hardcore fanboy, I was about to say how the hand scene was like sexual/erotic and he sensed that and said DONT! DONT! And then he's like but did you guys see the way Poe and Rey looked at each other?? And my girl friend says yeah!!
*slams head against wall and cries*

[giaciak2]

@SoloSideCousin - that look of awe and longing from Poe in the 10 seconds Rey interacts with him in the ST. They’re definitely going to be a thing in the next film based on that/s.

@snufkin

I was talking to some friends, one who is a hardcore fanboy, I was about to say how the hand scene was like sexual/erotic and he sensed that and said DONT! DONT! And then he's like but did you guys see the way Poe and Rey looked at each other?? And my girl friend says yeah!!
*slams head against wall and cries*

@rey09

Girls do not despair. Do you know what happens when you like someone but another courting you? Poe is the wrong guy on the right side ... As soon as the right guy decides to go to Rey, ... Poe will end up in the trash along with the handkerchiefs.

[Kylo Rey]

@SoloSideCousin - that look of awe and longing from Poe in the 10 seconds Rey interacts with him in the ST. They’re definitely going to be a thing in the next film based on that/s.

@snufkin

I was talking to some friends, one who is a hardcore fanboy, I was about to say how the hand scene was like sexual/erotic and he sensed that and said DONT! DONT! And then he's like but did you guys see the way Poe and Rey looked at each other?? And my girl friend says yeah!!
*slams head against wall and cries*

@rey09

We're going to (hopefully) have the last laugh when Rey and Poe butt heads over Kylo and her true feelings for Kylo are outed.

[nickandnora]

We're also going to have the last laugh when Poe is gay and unrequitedly in love with Finn. (No seriously, I think that's where they might be going with this.)

[Sponsored content]