Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:They do seem to have lacked a clear vision for Finn. Not only would MBJ be very different casting from John, but he also couldn't be more different from Jesse Plemons.

@Darth Dingbat
If Finn and Rey were never intended to be romantic interests, they went in the right direction when they chose a more "boyish" actor.

@FrolickingFizzgig

And their real life siblings-like chemistry doesn't help romantic case at all. So I guess that was never an option plus there's no concept art that indicates romance between Kira and Sam or Finn (if different from Sam).

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:They do seem to have lacked a clear vision for Finn. Not only would MBJ be very different casting from John, but he also couldn't be more different from Jesse Plemons.

@Darth Dingbat
If Finn and Rey were never intended to be romantic interests, they went in the right direction when they chose a more "boyish" actor.

@FrolickingFizzgig



Edit: Not to mention that with a John Boyega kind of guy, a Kelly Marie Tran kind of girl is a pretty good fit.

SoloSideCousin wrote:
I heard he was amazing in Creed. He definitely seems to be in that AD category of "generational" actors that will make a huge mark.

@SoloSideCousin

He's good in everything he does, starting as a kid in the Wire ("Where's Wallace?!") and then joining on Friday Night Lights in its 4th season and being as central/compelling as the more established players. Maybe things would've gone in a more love triangle direction if he'd been Finn, which I would've loved to have seen. But it probably would not have appealed to little kids, that's for sure.

Darth Dingbat wrote:Well, I actually like Finn, but I see how he might rub others the wrong way. Finn won't be offended if somebody hates him. Hard to offend someone who doesn't even exist

I can't even really say why exactly I like Finn. I would like him more if they allowed him to be a real character. And by "real character" I don't mean having psychological depth or moral gravitas. I love characters that are fun, too. I love - as long they're done well - comic characters that are very flawed, even infuriating, in some way but still manage to be oddly likeable. From goofballs to grumps, wonderful characters come in all shapes and sizes.

But I hated the way they failed to commit to a characterisation with Finn. It seemed to me that John understood the character and played him as the "fun", flawed character that was still a likeable everyman. But giving him moral high ground when he doesn't really deserve it was a big mistake, IMO. There was no point in emphasising him being a GOOD MAN with a few superficial gestures, when his strength, as a character, didn't lie in his ethics (which were shaky at best) or in his morality and psychological struggles (which were non-existent), but in being fun. This trilogy needs a lot of fun, because we can foresee that lots of angst lies ahead. I hope Finn and KMT are allowed to provide the fun.

@Darth Dingbat

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.

John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

The problem is that this sloppy characterization makes Kylo's tragical manipulation by Snoke seem less important, it diminishes his arch and the weight of what he has endured. If Rey was "raised by sand", as Pablo said in an unfortunate (IMO) tweet, and Finn could get away from the FO and knew what the right thing to do was, where does this leave Kylo? Is he weak because he suffers and we have no reason to pity him for being targeted by a predator and master manipulator from childhood?

Either you take characterization seriously or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be consistent. They mixed completely different kinds of characterization in the same movie and this is weird, in my view, I didn't like that and when you see the movie once perhaps it isn't so annoying but it becomes more annoying the more times you see the movie. At least this happens to me.

John and the potential of his character deserved better, IMO, of course.

Reynak wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Well, I actually like Finn, but I see how he might rub others the wrong way. Finn won't be offended if somebody hates him. Hard to offend someone who doesn't even exist

I can't even really say why exactly I like Finn. I would like him more if they allowed him to be a real character. And by "real character" I don't mean having psychological depth or moral gravitas. I love characters that are fun, too. I love - as long they're done well - comic characters that are very flawed, even infuriating, in some way but still manage to be oddly likeable. From goofballs to grumps, wonderful characters come in all shapes and sizes.

But I hated the way they failed to commit to a characterisation with Finn. It seemed to me that John understood the character and played him as the "fun", flawed character that was still a likeable everyman. But giving him moral high ground when he doesn't really deserve it was a big mistake, IMO. There was no point in emphasising him being a GOOD MAN with a few superficial gestures, when his strength, as a character, didn't lie in his ethics (which were shaky at best) or in his morality and psychological struggles (which were non-existent), but in being fun. This trilogy needs a lot of fun, because we can foresee that lots of angst lies ahead. I hope Finn and KMT are allowed to provide the fun.

@Darth Dingbat

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.

John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

The problem is that this sloppy characterization makes Kylo's tragical manipulation by Snoke seem less important, it diminishes his arch and the weight of what he has endured. If Rey was "raised by sand", as Pablo said in an unfortunate (IMO) tweet, and Finn could get away from the FO and knew what the right thing to do was, where does this leave Kylo? Is he weak because he suffers and we have no reason to pity him for being targeted by a predator and master manipulator from childhood?

Either you take characterization seriously or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be consistent. They mixed completely different kinds of characterization in the same movie and this is weird, in my view, I didn't like that and when you see the movie once perhaps it isn't so annoying but it becomes more annoying the more times you see the movie. At least this happens to me.

John and the potential of his character deserved better, IMO, of course.

@Reynak

I agree with this post so much, especially the bolded.

Edit: I couldn't delete my response to this post (in the wrong thread) and reposted it here.

Kessel89 wrote:

Reynak wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Well, I actually like Finn, but I see how he might rub others the wrong way. Finn won't be offended if somebody hates him. Hard to offend someone who doesn't even exist

I can't even really say why exactly I like Finn. I would like him more if they allowed him to be a real character. And by "real character" I don't mean having psychological depth or moral gravitas. I love characters that are fun, too. I love - as long they're done well - comic characters that are very flawed, even infuriating, in some way but still manage to be oddly likeable. From goofballs to grumps, wonderful characters come in all shapes and sizes.

But I hated the way they failed to commit to a characterisation with Finn. It seemed to me that John understood the character and played him as the "fun", flawed character that was still a likeable everyman. But giving him moral high ground when he doesn't really deserve it was a big mistake, IMO. There was no point in emphasising him being a GOOD MAN with a few superficial gestures, when his strength, as a character, didn't lie in his ethics (which were shaky at best) or in his morality and psychological struggles (which were non-existent), but in being fun. This trilogy needs a lot of fun, because we can foresee that lots of angst lies ahead. I hope Finn and KMT are allowed to provide the fun.

@Darth Dingbat

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.

John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

The problem is that this sloppy characterization makes Kylo's tragical manipulation by Snoke seem less important, it diminishes his arch and the weight of what he has endured. If Rey was "raised by sand", as Pablo said in an unfortunate (IMO) tweet, and Finn could get away from the FO and knew what the right thing to do was, where does this leave Kylo? Is he weak because he suffers and we have no reason to pity him for being targeted by a predator and master manipulator from childhood?

Either you take characterization seriously or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be consistent. They mixed completely different kinds of characterization in the same movie and this is weird, in my view, I didn't like that and when you see the movie once perhaps it isn't so annoying but it becomes more annoying the more times you see the movie. At least this happens to me.

John and the potential of his character deserved better, IMO, of course.

@Reynak

I agree with this post so much, especially the bolded.

Edit: I deleted my response to this post (in the wrong thread) and reposted it here.

@Kessel89
I agree as well, but I'm still not going to throw Finn under the bus when there are two more films. I can't feel right doing that when I also hold onto the idea that many are going to change their minds about Kylo throughout Episodes VIII/IX. Is it too late to make him what he could have been? Yes, definitely. That ship has sailed. But it's not too late to improve his characterization. I want that for Finn, for Boyega and for the trilogy. I hope Rian Johnson can do him justice.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:

Reynak wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Well, I actually like Finn, but I see how he might rub others the wrong way. Finn won't be offended if somebody hates him. Hard to offend someone who doesn't even exist

I can't even really say why exactly I like Finn. I would like him more if they allowed him to be a real character. And by "real character" I don't mean having psychological depth or moral gravitas. I love characters that are fun, too. I love - as long they're done well - comic characters that are very flawed, even infuriating, in some way but still manage to be oddly likeable. From goofballs to grumps, wonderful characters come in all shapes and sizes.

But I hated the way they failed to commit to a characterisation with Finn. It seemed to me that John understood the character and played him as the "fun", flawed character that was still a likeable everyman. But giving him moral high ground when he doesn't really deserve it was a big mistake, IMO. There was no point in emphasising him being a GOOD MAN with a few superficial gestures, when his strength, as a character, didn't lie in his ethics (which were shaky at best) or in his morality and psychological struggles (which were non-existent), but in being fun. This trilogy needs a lot of fun, because we can foresee that lots of angst lies ahead. I hope Finn and KMT are allowed to provide the fun.

@Darth Dingbat

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.

John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

The problem is that this sloppy characterization makes Kylo's tragical manipulation by Snoke seem less important, it diminishes his arch and the weight of what he has endured. If Rey was "raised by sand", as Pablo said in an unfortunate (IMO) tweet, and Finn could get away from the FO and knew what the right thing to do was, where does this leave Kylo? Is he weak because he suffers and we have no reason to pity him for being targeted by a predator and master manipulator from childhood?

Either you take characterization seriously or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be consistent. They mixed completely different kinds of characterization in the same movie and this is weird, in my view, I didn't like that and when you see the movie once perhaps it isn't so annoying but it becomes more annoying the more times you see the movie. At least this happens to me.

John and the potential of his character deserved better, IMO, of course.

@Reynak

I agree with this post so much, especially the bolded.

Edit: I deleted my response to this post (in the wrong thread) and reposted it here.

@Kessel89
I agree as well, but I'm still not going to throw Finn under the bus when there are two more films. I can't feel right doing that when I also hold onto the idea that many are going to change their minds about Kylo throughout Episodes VIII/IX. Is it too late to make him what he could have been? Yes, definitely. That ship has sailed. But it's not too late to improve his characterization. I want that for Finn, for Boyega and for the trilogy. I hope Rian Johnson can do him justice.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes, I also have hope that Finn's characterization will improve, and I think it will with Rian. Finn will always be funny and lighthearted, which is fine, but there's more Rian can do with him other than making him just a lighthearted, funny and charismatic action hero who has comedic close calls with his clueless former stormtrooper buddies.

I like the idea of KMT's character not trusting Finn at first, making him question his choices. If she turns out to be a traitor to the Resistence, that could force him to face the implications of betrayal and question his own betrayal (and killing his fellow stormtroopers in TFA). It could be a real turning point for him. I really think helping his fellow stormtroopers is likely the best scenario for his character and his journey. If done well, it's very inspiring. It allows Finn to confront and overcome his past and become a real hero (a 'big deal') . I think Rian can make it work well.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kessel89 wrote:

Reynak wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Well, I actually like Finn, but I see how he might rub others the wrong way. Finn won't be offended if somebody hates him. Hard to offend someone who doesn't even exist

I can't even really say why exactly I like Finn. I would like him more if they allowed him to be a real character. And by "real character" I don't mean having psychological depth or moral gravitas. I love characters that are fun, too. I love - as long they're done well - comic characters that are very flawed, even infuriating, in some way but still manage to be oddly likeable. From goofballs to grumps, wonderful characters come in all shapes and sizes.

But I hated the way they failed to commit to a characterisation with Finn. It seemed to me that John understood the character and played him as the "fun", flawed character that was still a likeable everyman. But giving him moral high ground when he doesn't really deserve it was a big mistake, IMO. There was no point in emphasising him being a GOOD MAN with a few superficial gestures, when his strength, as a character, didn't lie in his ethics (which were shaky at best) or in his morality and psychological struggles (which were non-existent), but in being fun. This trilogy needs a lot of fun, because we can foresee that lots of angst lies ahead. I hope Finn and KMT are allowed to provide the fun.

@Darth Dingbat

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.

John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

The problem is that this sloppy characterization makes Kylo's tragical manipulation by Snoke seem less important, it diminishes his arch and the weight of what he has endured. If Rey was "raised by sand", as Pablo said in an unfortunate (IMO) tweet, and Finn could get away from the FO and knew what the right thing to do was, where does this leave Kylo? Is he weak because he suffers and we have no reason to pity him for being targeted by a predator and master manipulator from childhood?

Either you take characterization seriously or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be consistent. They mixed completely different kinds of characterization in the same movie and this is weird, in my view, I didn't like that and when you see the movie once perhaps it isn't so annoying but it becomes more annoying the more times you see the movie. At least this happens to me.

John and the potential of his character deserved better, IMO, of course.

@Reynak

I agree with this post so much, especially the bolded.

Edit: I deleted my response to this post (in the wrong thread) and reposted it here.

@Kessel89
I agree as well, but I'm still not going to throw Finn under the bus when there are two more films. I can't feel right doing that when I also hold onto the idea that many are going to change their minds about Kylo throughout Episodes VIII/IX. Is it too late to make him what he could have been? Yes, definitely. That ship has sailed. But it's not too late to improve his characterization. I want that for Finn, for Boyega and for the trilogy. I hope Rian Johnson can do him justice.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Finn's character as an idea is fantastic and John is an interesting actor and is very charming but I think he can do much better if they let him. He did a good job with what he was given in TFA but there was only so much he could do with a character that wasn't so well written. We'll see what they do in episode Vlll. I hope the character gets better because it will make the story as a whole better.

But I must admit that watching Finn and Poe once was enough for me. They were fun and that's all. I'd never have seen the movie more than once if it wasn't for Kylo, he is intriguing and fascinating while the others were just fine to see once and then move on. Perhaps it would have been better for me if he wasn't so interesting because I'm quite obsessed wih Reylo but especially with Kylo's character and his mystery and tragedy.

I personally never viewed Storm Troopers themselves as any major evil beings within Star Wars. I always saw them as kinda ridiculous. Like they are meant to be comedic or something. There is a long running joke that they always miss their target (not taking it literally of course) and to me they are just guys following orders.
When I saw the trailer for Force Awakens and Finn the runaway Trooper, I did not expect some super intelligent guy. I didn't really expect anything major. If Finn was someone exceptionally evil I would think twice. Like the idea of an Orc in LOTR becoming good is intriguing to me (dunno if they happened, don't think it did). They're just disgusting all together and just ruthless beings who want to eat Hobbits for breakfast. Storm Troopers were very boring in my opinion. Maybe lying is something that storm troopers do. Maybe there is something about Finn, just like there is with Rey that for some reason or other people accept it. Whatever that is, I don't know but I hope it is explained. When I say people accept it, I meant those in the story. Like Chewie trusting Finn and even Han.

Even in A New Hope the Storm Trooper that shoots Leia looks down at her and says almost in an encouraging tone "she'll be alright". They were never truly bad for me. Just regular guys with masks on.

Irina de France wrote:All right, might as well add my input because I had to do my best not to cringe at some comments I’ve seen in this thread.

For a guy who has been brainwashed to be an automaton soldier since he’s a kid, he showed barely any trauma because of it. It didn’t really strike me until I saw the movie for the third time, but when he started shooting his former brothers-in-arms, I was shocked. And disgusted.

If Finn is set up to be the compassionate guy and all, and the first step to humanize Stormtroopers since they were pretty much “Those Guys Who Shoot At The Heroes But Always Miss Their Aim And Get Shot Instead, ROFLMAO”, having him shoot the Troopers is pretty bad storytelling.

I find it a bit hard to blame him for lying. Sure, it was wrong, but it was done half for comic relief (he’s trying to impress the girl lol), half because I’m pretty sure 90% of you guys would have done the same if you were in his position. It’s never a very good idea to start running around telling the first girl you meet you’re a runaway Stormtrooper, amirite?

I mean, the guy/girl lying to their crush to impress them is a trope as old as time. What does somehow deconstruct it, though, it that when Finn reveals the truth to Rey, she isn’t even angry about it. If the filmmakers are setting Finnrey as the endgame, they just ripped off any tension and failed at it overall.

Personally, I thought Finn was funny, but I guess it’s a matter of personal taste.

Also, I really don’t see where the accusation of him being a coward comes from? 1) He breaks free from years of brainwashing and manages to run away, rescuing a prisoner in the process (poorly done by the writers or not), 2) He goes back to Starkiller Base on a risky mission, just to save Rey, 3) He fights a wannabe/stand-in for a Sith Lord even though he knows very well he has absolutely no chance of winning and all that just to give Rey an opportunity to run away to safety.

We have two movies to go, and with Rian Johnson on board, I’m going to stay optimistic. And I don’t want to sound rude, but if you’re so intent on saying Kylo Ren is going to get a redemption and end up with Rey despite everything he’s done (don’t get me wrong, I hope for that ending too, but it’s still going to require some skill from the writers), why do you send Finn to the trash heap?

Seriously, instead of shitting on a character to feel more secure with your ship, find actual evidence.

I agree with what snufkin said just above, Finn is there for the little boys. He's the character that's most like them, period.

@Irina de France

Well, personally, I thought Finn was funny and his relationship with Rey was sweet.

The problems, however, were:

1. he was used as a red herring for marketing. Frankly, that's disgusting. No more words for that. You just don't advertise a dude with a lightsaber if he's not going to use it convincingly, and if it's not going to be his weapon. He could have been shown with a blaster in the marketing. It would have worked. People would think: the heroes are doomed, it's Luke or nothing, since no other character is force sensitive (from the marketing). Anyways, I don't care about the stupid marketing, but I do care about little boys that might have been disappointed after going to the theatre and thinking Finn was going to be the Jedi, when he was the comedic relief. I always imagine a black little boy and it breaks my heart, maybe cause I have a son, and I know how seriously they take fictional characters.

2. His characterization made no sense. I mean, really, they could have done just a little bit of conflict. It could have even been funny. He could have hesitated before shooting his former colleagues, I don't know. Other people posted that his fear and even sense of self protection could have been better explored. He could be a little like Han Solo, start thinking only about his own skin, until he changes later.

3. He was used as a counter point to Rey. I really think he picks up the lightsaber only so we know Kylo is competent. I don't know... I don't think that's a good way to treat a character, just as a foil to another character. Also, the movie doesn't allow Finn to have any personal victories. He is important in disabling the shields, but who congratulates him? Who treats him as a hero? Lots of people like Han's "that's not how the Force works", basically putting Finn down, when in fact, I think that is how the force works; go and trust, etc. If you think about the force as the energy of the universe, Faith, whatever, that's absolutely how the force works. But no, let's make Finn look stupid so he can be the butt of a joke.

These are some of the problems. I think we should criticize the movie, and the poor characterization of a character who had potential. The marketing gimmick should have received more complaints, it boggles my mind that more people don't worry about it. Of course, John was graceful during all this time, and his character is charismatic. Maybe Finn will become more interesting.

Personally, I like to see friendship in movies, and good friendships can be really moving, and I would like to see that with Rey. Also, Finn is the everyman in the ST, I think he's a very relatable character. I think he has a lot of potential. Still, we should complain. What they did to the character was not right.

Force22 wrote:

Irina de France wrote:All right, might as well add my input because I had to do my best not to cringe at some comments I’ve seen in this thread.

For a guy who has been brainwashed to be an automaton soldier since he’s a kid, he showed barely any trauma because of it. It didn’t really strike me until I saw the movie for the third time, but when he started shooting his former brothers-in-arms, I was shocked. And disgusted.

If Finn is set up to be the compassionate guy and all, and the first step to humanize Stormtroopers since they were pretty much “Those Guys Who Shoot At The Heroes But Always Miss Their Aim And Get Shot Instead, ROFLMAO”, having him shoot the Troopers is pretty bad storytelling.

I find it a bit hard to blame him for lying. Sure, it was wrong, but it was done half for comic relief (he’s trying to impress the girl lol), half because I’m pretty sure 90% of you guys would have done the same if you were in his position. It’s never a very good idea to start running around telling the first girl you meet you’re a runaway Stormtrooper, amirite?

I mean, the guy/girl lying to their crush to impress them is a trope as old as time. What does somehow deconstruct it, though, it that when Finn reveals the truth to Rey, she isn’t even angry about it. If the filmmakers are setting Finnrey as the endgame, they just ripped off any tension and failed at it overall.

Personally, I thought Finn was funny, but I guess it’s a matter of personal taste.

Also, I really don’t see where the accusation of him being a coward comes from? 1) He breaks free from years of brainwashing and manages to run away, rescuing a prisoner in the process (poorly done by the writers or not), 2) He goes back to Starkiller Base on a risky mission, just to save Rey, 3) He fights a wannabe/stand-in for a Sith Lord even though he knows very well he has absolutely no chance of winning and all that just to give Rey an opportunity to run away to safety.

We have two movies to go, and with Rian Johnson on board, I’m going to stay optimistic. And I don’t want to sound rude, but if you’re so intent on saying Kylo Ren is going to get a redemption and end up with Rey despite everything he’s done (don’t get me wrong, I hope for that ending too, but it’s still going to require some skill from the writers), why do you send Finn to the trash heap?

Seriously, instead of shitting on a character to feel more secure with your ship, find actual evidence.

I agree with what snufkin said just above, Finn is there for the little boys. He's the character that's most like them, period.

@Irina de France

Well, personally, I thought Finn was funny and his relationship with Rey was sweet.

The problems, however, were:

1. he was used as a red herring for marketing. Frankly, that's disgusting. No more words for that. You just don't advertise a dude with a lightsaber if he's not going to use it convincingly, and if it's not going to be his weapon. He could have been shown with a blaster in the marketing. It would have worked. People would think: the heroes are doomed, it's Luke or nothing, since no other character is force sensitive (from the marketing). Anyways, I don't care about the stupid marketing, but I do care about little boys that might have been disappointed after going to the theatre and thinking Finn was going to be the Jedi, when he was the comedic relief. I always imagine a black little boy and it breaks my heart, maybe cause I have a son, and I know how seriously they take fictional characters.

2. His characterization made no sense. I mean, really, they could have done just a little bit of conflict. It could have even been funny. He could have hesitated before shooting his former colleagues, I don't know. Other people posted that his fear and even sense of self protection could have been better explored. He could be a little like Han Solo, start thinking only about his own skin, until he changes later.

3. He was used as a counter point to Rey. I really think he picks up the lightsaber only so we know Kylo is competent. I don't know... I don't think that's a good way to treat a character, just as a foil to another character. Also, the movie doesn't allow Finn to have any personal victories. He is important in disabling the shields, but who congratulates him? Who treats him as a hero? Lots of people like Han's "that's not how the Force works", basically putting Finn down, when in fact, I think that is how the force works; go and trust, etc. If you think about the force as the energy of the universe, Faith, whatever, that's absolutely how the force works. But no, let's make Finn look stupid so he can be the butt of a joke.

These are some of the problems. I think we should criticize the movie, and the poor characterization of a character who had potential. The marketing gimmick should have received more complaints, it boggles my mind that more people don't worry about it. Of course, John was graceful during all this time, and his character is charismatic. Maybe Finn will become more interesting.

Personally, I like to see friendship in movies, and good friendships can be really moving, and I would like to see that with Rey. Also, Finn is the everyman in the ST, I think he's a very relatable character. I think he has a lot of potential. Still, we should complain. What they did to the character was not right.

@Force22

Reynak wrote:

I like John Boyega but I don't like the way they characterized Finn either. It's a pity because his character could have been epic and ended up being just meh. He is funny because John is charming, but the scenes where he kills his fellow STs and then celebrates the kill as if he's killed aliens in a viedeo game make me wanna p--e. They are not only bad but also distasteful. Real nasty.
John is charming and smart but they did a disservice to him and his character when most of what he does doesn't make sense. Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith? I can buy that he had the guts to leave all that with some suspension of disbelief but he should have some problems derived from his experience and he has none. Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?  Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

@Reynak

Well, I am gonna try to answer your questions:
Because It seems I saw everything concerning Finn quite different. Though I do not see his character as thrilling as Rey s or Kylo s, but yes I like Finn.


Why doesn't he suffer the consequences of having been brainwashed and programmed since bith?
Because It is happening in galaxy far far away - and not in real life. It is just Star Wars way of simplifing the the things -
there are many examples of this from EP1 to EP7. Some people like it - some people don t. That s all

Why is helping Poe the right thing to do but Finn doesn't try to help any of his fellow ST?

He just desperately need a pilot, he is scared to death, and just want to leave that place - He is trying to sell the story to Poe (and Poe does not buying it)

Why does he trust the Resistance? Why does he know they are the good guys, because Poe is cool?

Who says he trusts the Resistance? Finn just uses his chances and goes with it.
He says to Rey that he is from the resistance - because he was already in trouble with her stick and BB 8, and he thinks Rey digs the resistance.

Finn is not intended to be a hero, he has maybe a tons of flaws, but he is very human as well, with all his shortcomings.

They could have done so much with Finn's character.....for example, that moment with TR8TR could have been a moment of sadness, reflecting on the fact that these guys were like him....maybe he could have been defeated by TR8TR because he was avoiding fighting someone from his former unit and Han had to intervene (would have had much more impact than what was depicted)....would have given his character more depth.

If John Boyega hadn't been so charming and sweet in his portrayal of Finn, I would have disliked the character a lot.....right now I'm hoping they rectify the situation in the sequels.

@Darth_Awakened", I'm afraid the character doesn't work for me at all and after watching the movie several times I like him even less, not the guy, the character doesn't make sense to me. They try to sell him as a sympathetic heroic character but he lies to Han and the Resistance pilots to save Rey. That's real nasty.

Telling Poe helping him is the right thing to do was a ridiculous answer and a damn lie. Ironically, Poe was the one who killed his ST friend in the village and he says he must help him because he has to do the right thing? It made me roll my eyes. No other character in the OT said such absurd things. I agree with Panky, the only thing that saves a really lame character is John's charm. I think he is very nice and an interesting actor but even then I wouldn't care one bit if I never saw him again. This didn't happen with any characters in the OT. I wanted to see all the characters again, including the robots and the ships. But they haven't managed to make me care about what may happen to Finn. I'd rather see Phasma again rather than him.

Reynak wrote:@Darth_Awakened", I'm afraid the character doesn't work for me at all and after watching the movie several times I like him even less, not the guy, the character doesn't make sense to me. They try to sell him as a sympathetic heroic character but he lies to Han and the Resistance pilots to save Rey. That's real nasty.

Telling Poe helping him is the right thing to do was a ridiculous answer and a damn lie. Ironically, Poe was the one who killed his ST friend in the village and he says he must help him because he has to do the right thing? It made me roll my eyes. No other character in the OT said such absurd things. I agree with Panky, the only thing that saves a really lame character is John's charm. I think he is very nice and an interesting actor but even then I wouldn't care one bit if I never saw him again. This didn't happen with any characters in the OT. I wanted to see all the characters again, including the robots and the ships. But they haven't managed to make me care about what may happen to Finn. I'd rather see Phasma again rather than him.

@Reynak

btw..Luke Skywalker lies to Han (poor Han it seems that every kid in the galaxy likes to lie to the biggest liar of them all - but still one of the most favorite characters) just to save Leia . (She is rich...in ANH).There are many liars in SW...but we still love them.

On the other hand from Finn s perspective saving Rey is more important to him than Resistance at this point - I do not see it is nasty at all.

Again.."the right thing to do was just selling a story" - he did not know how Poe was going to react.
As someone said, it is just a first movie - we ll see where they gonna go with character.

I agree on Boyega performance totally - someone else could make a total mess of it.

And please, do not think I am attacking you or something worse, it just a discussion, we see the character differently and really not big deal with that
It seems that people are more sensitive lately.

The most puzzling thing for me abut Finn is when he tells Poe he freed him because it's the right thing to do yet he doesn't hesitate at all about killing his fellow Stormtroopers eventhough he was shown being concerned about the dying Stormtrooper and made him realize he didn't want to serve the FO.Like how does that make any sense?Finn comes off very unlikble and the writers trying to make him funny while he's doing that doesn't help at all.Then theres lack of anger from Rey after he revealed he had lied to her.I mean I get they might not have wanted to give the wrong impression to the audience by making Rey angry but whether ot not she had any romantic feelings towards him it would have been normal if she got angry and eventhoguh we don't know whether she learned Finn would have risked the lives of the Resistanse people just so he can save her are we suppsoe to think she would have been fine with that asnlong as he came back for her?I'm not pointing out those things just to hate on Finn since I think he had his moments but it's realy frustrating.
I also think seprating Finn and Rey's a good idea,it will give the characters time to grow and test their friendship since I feel like the writers made them frineds very fast for plot reasons when it didn't really fit their characters to become close to each other so fast especially in Rey's case who we've been told likes to work alone and doesn't trust other people.Her having a Luke/Han type of friendship with Finn I think would have worked so much better

vaderito wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.

@BastilaBey

he doesn't care. he won't liberate anyone. And after shooting at them, they shouldn't follow him.

That's a problem I have, he's murdering men who may be on their first outing like he was in the village and he's just murdering them.
@vaderito

Anyway, Finn's stormtrooper past HAS to come back to bite him in the a** in the next movie...that's where he's going to get his development.

I hope whoever KMT plays works with Finn to develop his character. Someone said KMT will hopefully call Finn out on where he is going, what he is doing etc.....
One thing I take from this is Rey was NEVER the person for Finn. Not on a romantic level. I already realized this 100% but my eyes are being opened up more now actually to the way Rey was with Finn within the film.
I never questioned why Rey (when Finn confesses) never felt the need to add anything more to the moment then just "don't go". Finn actually chose to reveal his secret personally to Rey. If they were in any way going to go down a romantic route Rey would have had some more to say. She would have! Rey (in my opinion) can't and could never connect with Finn on that level. They're friends sure and I'm seriously hoping KMT can connect with Finn to try really hard to get Finn to come out completely as a whole.
Even the Rathar scene was weird, as well as the SKB hug. Rey never tells Finn what the deal is. She does when he's unconscious. There might be something here to be said about Rey too and her behavior around Finn. We never really delve into Rey much. That I know of anyway. Anyway that's my opinion, sorry if it was confusing to some. I'm not the best with writing this stuff.

Also, maybe Finn didn't get fully characterized due to the fact that he was gravitating towards a girl who wasn't reciprocating anything for him on a deeper more romantic level. It could be that. Everyone gravitated towarda Rey for a reason, she promotes hope and courage.

Rey brought Ben Solo out a little bit and Finn hasn't come out enough yet because it could be that Rey is just not the one for him. We all have someone to bring out the best in us.

Little_Boots wrote:I hope whoever KMT plays works with Finn to develop his character. Someone said KMT will hopefully call Finn out on where he is going, what he is doing etc.....
One thing I take from this is Rey was NEVER the person for Finn. Not on a romantic level. I already realized this 100% but my eyes are being opened up more now actually to the way Rey was with Finn within the film.
I never questioned why Rey (when Finn confesses) never felt the need to add anything more to the moment then just "don't go". Finn actually chose to reveal his secret personally to Rey. If they were in any way going to go down a romantic route Rey would have had some more to say. She would have! Rey (in my opinion) can't and could never connect with Finn on that level. They're friends sure and I'm seriously hoping KMT can connect with Finn to try really hard to get Finn to come out completely as a whole.
Even the Rathar scene was weird, as well as the SKB hug. Rey never tells Finn what the deal is. She does when he's unconscious. There might be something here to be said about Rey too and her behavior around Finn. We never really delve into Rey much. That I know of anyway. Anyway that's my opinion, sorry if it was confusing to some. I'm not the best with writing this stuff.

Also, maybe Finn didn't get fully characterized due to the fact that he was gravitating towards a girl who wasn't reciprocating anything for him on a deeper more romantic level. It could be that. Everyone gravitated towarda Rey for a reason, she promotes hope and courage.

@Little_Boots

I also believe Reys force sensitivity will drive a wedge between Rey and Finn. I mean, come on, there has to be some tension and conflict in this relationship, even if it is just meant to be a bother/sister thing. Just look at the OT3, they weren't insta-friends, it was more believable with them. I feel like Finn will be very wary of Rey's powers, just as Han was dismissive of Luke's..

@Mana I think what I should have said also, is Kylo brings out the worst in Rey, and the best. The tension comes. I hope KMT brings out the tension and character in Finn.
Not that it should have been ever up to a woman to do that but right now from my pov, this seems like it could be a possibility. Hopefully anyway

Little_Boots wrote:@Mana I think what I should have said also, is Kylo brings out the worst in Rey, and the best. The tension comes. I hope KMT brings out the tension and character in Finn.
Not that it should have been ever up to a woman to do that but right now from my pov, this seems like it could be a possibility. Hopefully anyway

@Little_Boots

I hope they do justice to the character because I love what John Boyega did with him...other than, that I'm not heavily invested in Finn, I believe the writers didn't have a clear vision for him in TFA...I hope Rian can change that

The thing that I like about Finn is that he lie poorly. To Poe (it's the right thing to do.... no, ok, I need a pilot) to Rey (I am with the resistance... ok I am not, I am just a man on the run, scared to death) to the whole resistance (I know how to deactivate shields on starkiller... no, I was a sanitizing dude, I want Rey back).
He lies, lies, lies, in a poor way. And it's something that I find moving, interesting and understandable. He is in war, and he doesn't like it, he wants to run away and I can understand it. In the end he changes. Now we will see what the writers will do with and of him in next movies. I have hope.

@Zenbrainjam Finn's lies never bothered me because they came from a very human place. He was afraid and wanted to get away, it's completely understandable. He is the everyman who grows into a hero. He doesn't think twice about facing Kylo at the end of the movie, which takes some guts. As a trooper he must have heard so many stories about how scary big bad Kylo Ren was.

I've said before that what bothers me about Finn is how he doesn't pause to reflect on how those stormtroopers he's shooting are his brothers. Hopefully this is something they deal with in the next movie - it's basically necessary for his character to develop.

BastilaBey wrote:@Zenbrainjam Finn's lies never bothered me because they came from a very human place. He was afraid and wanted to get away, it's completely understandable. He is the everyman who grows into a hero. He doesn't think twice about facing Kylo at the end of the movie, which takes some guts. As a trooper he must have heard so many stories about how scary big bad Kylo Ren was.

I've said before that what bothers me about Finn is how he doesn't pause to reflect on how those stormtroopers he's shooting are his brothers. Hopefully this is something they deal with in the next movie - it's basically necessary for his character to develop.

@BastilaBey

Same for me. The first time I saw TFA I reacted very badly to that scene, when Finn shoot his comrades, while waiting for Poe to free the tie fighter and fly away from Finalizer. But then I noticed that he shoot aiming to things, not people, until he aim to the command centre where there are the officers, so maybe he tried to create covering fire, firstly, and then he neutralized the command centre where there weren't his "brothers", just officers.