Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

jakkusun wrote:This! I feel like people don't talk about this enough. That Finn was basically a walking Star Wars Encyclopedia. I love that about him. I think he was probably the top student in the Stormtrooper program in both knowledge of history and combat skills.

@jakkusun

Indeed; too bad he didn't learn binary, but I guess the FO schooling is somewhat similar to the Starfleet Academy of Star Trek - you only learn what you need to excel at your profession/position.

Maria Antonietta wrote:Even Jar Jar is brave but nobody gives him enough credit for it. Funny this comes out from the guy who likes evilness evil. Yooooo Kylo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get revenge and kill them all!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Maria Antonietta

Jar Jar is given credit via memes:

I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help, and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help, and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

Don't wanna trigger anyone...But regardless of color...Finn is a runaway slave of sorts...

Just how Boyega worked into that character that might have raised eyebrows... also...Finn the Character was probably planned to start from this run of the mill nobody... Comic relief and not so important to the plot...It makes things worse for the character because Boyega just had to be subjected to race issues. If Finn was played by Shia LeBouf just like he did in Constantine, nobody would raise arms. They'd just see him for what he is in the movie.

but if we are to trust the new TPTB, then Finn should get his much deserved developments. Even in the most subtle ways. Han evolved wonderfully himselt depsite being a scruffy nerfherder. Finn is crucial to the B Plot... he has a promising hero mission ahead of him.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help,  and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

Don't wanna trigger anyone...But regardless of color...Finn is a runaway slave of sorts...

Just how Boyega worked into that character that might have raised eyebrows... also...Finn the Character was probably planned to start from this run of the mill nobody... Comic relief and not so important to the plot...It makes things worse for the character because Boyega just had to be subjected to race issues. If Finn was played by Shia LeBouf just like he did in Constantine, nobody would raise arms. They'd just see him for what he is in the movie.

but if we are to trust the new TPTB, then Finn should get his much deserved developments. Even in the most subtle ways. Han evolved wonderfully himselt depsite being a scruffy nerfherder. Finn is crucial to the B Plot... he has a promising hero mission ahead of him.

@Rei of Sunshine
IMO Finn is and was meant to be a runaway slave. He was kidnapped from his home as a child, trained/brainwashed to do something he didn't want to do and likely received no compensation (I doubt ST stormtroopers get paid). Boyega's race is irrelevant. He would still be a runaway slave if he was white, Latino, Asian or a Twi'Lek. I don't understand how this could possibly be "triggering" unless people are under the impression that slavery was/is unique to African Americans. Oh, boy. Where do we even start with that?

jakkusun wrote:

Rimfaxe96 wrote:I loved the Finn & BB-8 and Finn & Phasma scenes.
They also repeatedly showed how much more educated Finn is compared to Rey who knows next to nothing except whatever she picked up from conversation/rumor on Jakku. I hope we'll get to see Finn use his knowledge of the FO to undermine them as good as possible.

@Rimfaxe96

This! I feel like people don't talk about this enough. That Finn was basically a walking Star Wars Encyclopedia. I love that about him. I think, based in this and the before the awakening story about him, he was probably the top student in the Stormtrooper program in both knowledge of history and combat skills.

@jakkusun

I have noticed that in the movie. He was charming and cute with it.
Finn: Have you heard of Trillia massacre?
Rey: ?

Fans being weird/demanding is nothing new, just like everything else changed by the Internet, technology is always a reflection of the human behaviors and cultures it was created in. It just means creators can be more directly pestered, harassed, annoyed, and threatened by fans. Stephen King wrote an entire novel about it and the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had to contend with it when he killed off Sherlock Holmes. Modern day fans can be insane or just pains in the a**, but the behavior started with the Victorians:

FAN FRICTION

In 1893, Arthur Conan Doyle famously killed Sherlock Holmes, chucking him off Reichenbach Falls. Protesters wore black armbands in the streets. Even the author’s mother was opposed, writing to him, “You won’t! You can’t! You mustn’t!” A few years later, Conan Doyle gave in and rolled back the rock, but Sherlockians call the period in between the Great Hiatus. According to Anne Jamison’s terrific “Fic: Why Fanfiction Is Taking Over the World,” when the author retreated his fans stepped in, writing their own Sherlock mysteries: the origin of modern fan fiction.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help,  and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

Don't wanna trigger anyone...But regardless of color...Finn is a runaway slave of sorts...

Just how Boyega worked into that character that might have raised eyebrows... also...Finn the Character was probably planned to start from this run of the mill nobody... Comic relief and not so important to the plot...It makes things worse for the character because Boyega just had to be subjected to race issues. If Finn was played by Shia LeBouf just like he did in Constantine, nobody would raise arms. They'd just see him for what he is in the movie.

but if we are to trust the new TPTB, then Finn should get his much deserved developments. Even in the most subtle ways. Han evolved wonderfully himselt depsite being a scruffy nerfherder. Finn is crucial to the B Plot... he has a promising hero mission ahead of him.

@Rei of Sunshine
IMO Finn is and was meant to be a runaway slave. He was kidnapped from his home as a child, trained/brainwashed to do something he didn't want to do and likely received no compensation (I doubt ST stormtroopers get paid). Boyega's race is irrelevant. He would still be a runaway slave if he was white, Latino, Asian or a Twi'Lek. I don't understand how this could possibly be "triggering" unless people are under the impression that slavery was/is unique to African Americans. Oh, boy. Where do we even start with that?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm just inserting that for the sake of a disclaimer. Since I seriously do not need another debate about color, and of all places, here in this lovely forum... Wherever I go online lately, you could randomly offend anyone without even knowing what you said. Everybody could be so sensitive these days. Best be careful especially with such touchy topics.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help,  and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

Don't wanna trigger anyone...But regardless of color...Finn is a runaway slave of sorts...

Just how Boyega worked into that character that might have raised eyebrows... also...Finn the Character was probably planned to start from this run of the mill nobody... Comic relief and not so important to the plot...It makes things worse for the character because Boyega just had to be subjected to race issues. If Finn was played by Shia LeBouf just like he did in Constantine, nobody would raise arms. They'd just see him for what he is in the movie.

but if we are to trust the new TPTB, then Finn should get his much deserved developments. Even in the most subtle ways. Han evolved wonderfully himselt depsite being a scruffy nerfherder. Finn is crucial to the B Plot... he has a promising hero mission ahead of him.

@Rei of Sunshine
IMO Finn is and was meant to be a runaway slave. He was kidnapped from his home as a child, trained/brainwashed to do something he didn't want to do and likely received no compensation (I doubt ST stormtroopers get paid). Boyega's race is irrelevant. He would still be a runaway slave if he was white, Latino, Asian or a Twi'Lek. I don't understand how this could possibly be "triggering" unless people are under the impression that slavery was/is unique to African Americans. Oh, boy. Where do we even start with that?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm just inserting that for the sake of a disclaimer. Since I seriously do not need another debate about color, and of all places, here in this lovely forum... Wherever I go online lately, you could randomly offend anyone without even knowing what you said. Everybody could be so sensitive these days. Best be careful especially with such touchy topics.

@Rei of Sunshine
Yeah, I know what you mean. The internet is a scary place. You never know how people are going to react to certain things.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help,  and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

Don't wanna trigger anyone...But regardless of color...Finn is a runaway slave of sorts...

Just how Boyega worked into that character that might have raised eyebrows... also...Finn the Character was probably planned to start from this run of the mill nobody... Comic relief and not so important to the plot...It makes things worse for the character because Boyega just had to be subjected to race issues. If Finn was played by Shia LeBouf just like he did in Constantine, nobody would raise arms. They'd just see him for what he is in the movie.

but if we are to trust the new TPTB, then Finn should get his much deserved developments. Even in the most subtle ways. Han evolved wonderfully himselt depsite being a scruffy nerfherder. Finn is crucial to the B Plot... he has a promising hero mission ahead of him.

@Rei of Sunshine
IMO Finn is and was meant to be a runaway slave. He was kidnapped from his home as a child, trained/brainwashed to do something he didn't want to do and likely received no compensation (I doubt ST stormtroopers get paid). Boyega's race is irrelevant. He would still be a runaway slave if he was white, Latino, Asian or a Twi'Lek. I don't understand how this could possibly be "triggering" unless people are under the impression that slavery was/is unique to African Americans. Oh, boy. Where do we even start with that?

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm just inserting that for the sake of a disclaimer. Since I seriously do not need another debate about color, and of all places, here in this lovely forum... Wherever I go online lately, you could randomly offend anyone without even knowing what you said. Everybody could be so sensitive these days. Best be careful especially with such touchy topics.

@Rei of Sunshine
Yeah, I know what you mean. The internet is a scary place. You never know how people are going to react to certain things.

@FrolickingFizzgig

But then we both agree on the point about Finn, don't we?

Finn could've been such an easy going character by all means. His development will come slow but sure... It's just people really wanna raise heck because of John Boyega... I don't see people complaining about Poe being a 1dimensional character in TFA and OI being a POC

spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't think anyone should dismiss lightly African Americans who do not like Finn, there are many cultural and historical reasons why some do not like his portrayal. Two reasons right ot the top, "Magic Negro trope" and the fact that he looks like a runaway slave during the first third of the movie does not help,  and there was undeniable bait and switch on JJ's part.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

The only thing that saves Finn in my opinion is Boyega's performance.

Pablo is a company man and rightly defends Finn's character arc, that is his job.

@spacebaby45678

I know that I can't speak for the African American community, but I think the main frustration is definitely the JJ bait and switch you mentioned.  Finn was being used, in the trailers especially, to hide Rey's status as force sensitive protagonist... And that wasn't totally fair to the character really. I also don't think the bait and switch really fooled that many? But anyway, even John Boyega once talked about it being hard to have hold back a bit in TFA, but that he was excited for Finn to really come into his own as a classic hero in VIII with more cool action scenes.

But then I'm not so sure about the rest, though maybe I'm just really ignorant. Right now, though, I just don't see how he fits that tv trope entry about the "magical negro." Idk Finn had knowledge, but not much wisdom. Finn is young and still figuring out the world and his place in it. He was given wisdom by others like Han and Maz. He never really imparted wisdom to anyone. And he also wasn't entirely selfless. He had his selfless moments, especially with his friendship and compassion for Rey, but he also had a very human selfishness and sense of self-preservation. He was well-rounded in this respect. And he wasn't there to just be a support and aid to Rey...they both aided each other...and neither of them have their own path figured out yet anyway...they were actually both pretty much just helping the resistance.

Idk his character might not have been perfectly written, and him losing all his major battles may be disappointing, as is the very real possibility of him never following the Jedi paTh, but they still wrote him as a hero and a protagonist, a character who is evolving and has a story of his own.

But you are definitely right, I think, about John being essential to making the character work. John really gave Finn vitality.

And this appears to possibly be an unpopular opinion? But I also never thought of the slave thing before...always saw it more as running away from a cult? He was shedding a uniform...which really doesn't say "escaping slavery" to me?  But I can still see how people see it that way, I guess. But The Wookiees in Life Debt were a much more literal and obvious slave trope...and even have some disturbing holocaust undertones...also with some heart of darkness vibes in there too? With the the camps and burning the dead... And the crazy oppressive imperial who becomes "wild" and mad like his surroundings. Idk if that's just me tho.
But yeah, I thought since Finn wasn't really doing slave labor, but was rather and integrated member of the FO, who was taught to believe he was a part of them, that it wasn't much like a runaway slave at all, to me. I feel like with slavery, it involves one group oppressing a group of "others" but this seems to be a random, forced, integration of promising fighters onto the FO team. Finn could probably have become almost as powerful as Phasma one day, since he was highly skilled. Tbh, I think the Stormtrooper program is slavery about as much as the clone trooper program was slavery. So..still sorta slavery ish I guess (I'm sure some people see it that way), but not exactly. Its also still a bit worse in the FO because it involves kidnapping children.
It's not that I really have a problem with the slavery symbolism or metaphor or trope or whatever, I just personally don't really see it completely. :/

I'm just guessing that the main point of the tweet was that people were excited that, as John said, "the new star of Star Wars" was going to be a Black man. And I guess the way TFA played out led some people people to question Finn's status as a hero and protagonist. Many can so easily push him into the role of sidekick. Which isn't saying good things about the writing for his character, maybe. But this is also just the first act, so not everything is said and done yet.

And I think Pablo was being genuine. You are right though, of course he defends his company's character. I still think he was being very real about what he chose to say. He did not make Finn into anything he wasn't. And I think the fact that Pablo and John are both excited about how Finn will develop in VIII is very promising and exciting.

I am not going to derail the Tweet's thread with a discussion about why Finn is a bad character or offensive to African Americans when there are a ton of really good thoughtful articles on the subject all over the internet and discussion all over youtube if anyone is actually interested in an opposing view they can find it easily. I will let this be my last post on the subject, I think this article is a good synopsis of the problems some see with his character Finn.

"A few other critics have noted the lack of dramatic agency of the Finn character in nominal configurations such as: his inability to comprehend “droid speak”, “Wookie speak” and other languages that come easily to the White characters; inability to pilot spacecraft; lack of weapons knowledge even though he was a Stormtrooper; and finally his lack of knowledge of “the resistance” when in fact as a Stormtrooper he would have known whom the Empire considered its enemies. These nominal inabilities are contradicted by Finn’s ability to wield a light saber with no training; his courage in various battles; his decision to leave the Empire; his choice to return to participate with the rebels of the resistance.

The pointing out of such contradictions in the consistency and the ability of the Black character to wield dramatic agency in a White film is often seen as “nit-picking” from loyal fans – both White and Black – of a White franchise film because, as long as the film ends with full White dramatic agency, there is less spectator investment in questioning the loose ends or the problematic construction of the Black hyper-token. The White filmmakers have the noblesse oblige to say to Black critics, ”Hey, be glad that we even cast a Black in this film,” and Black loyal fans can say, ”Thank you for casting one of us,” by their ticket purchases, glowing reviews and repeat viewings."

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

spacebaby45678 wrote:I am not going to derail the Tweet's thread with a discussion about why Finn is a bad character or offensive to African Americans when there are a ton of really good thoughtful articles on the subject all over the internet and discussion all over youtube if anyone is actually interested in an opposing view they can find it easily. I will let this be my last post on the subject, I think this article is a good synopsis of the problems some see with his character Finn.

"A few other critics have noted the lack of dramatic agency of the Finn character in nominal configurations such as: his inability to comprehend “droid speak”, “Wookie speak” and other languages that come easily to the White characters; inability to pilot spacecraft; lack of weapons knowledge even though he was a Stormtrooper; and finally his lack of knowledge of “the resistance” when in fact as a Stormtrooper he would have known whom the Empire considered its enemies. These nominal inabilities are contradicted by Finn’s ability to wield a light saber with no training; his courage in various battles; his decision to leave the Empire; his choice to return to participate with the rebels of the resistance.

The pointing out of such contradictions in the consistency and the ability of the Black character to wield dramatic agency in a White film is often seen as “nit-picking” from loyal fans – both White and Black – of a White franchise film because, as long as the film ends with full White dramatic agency, there is less spectator investment in questioning the loose ends or the problematic construction of the Black hyper-token. The White filmmakers have the noblesse oblige to say to Black critics, ”Hey, be glad that we even cast a Black in this film,” and Black loyal fans can say, ”Thank you for casting one of us,” by their ticket purchases, glowing reviews and repeat viewings."

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

@spacebaby45678

I think judging a character for his skin color is a big big mistake. He wasn't treated like that because he's black, but because he's a last minute additional character and they didn't develop him the right way. Was he heroic for escaping the FO? of course. Was he realistic when five minutes later he started behaving like nothing happened? No. Han Solo had more depth, he was always angry but good at heart nonethless.

\"Spacebaby45678 wrote: I am not going to derail the Tweet's thread with a discussion about why Finn is a bad character or offensive to African Americans when there are a ton of really good thoughtful articles on the subject all over the internet and discussion all over youtube if anyone is actually interested in an opposing view they can find it easily. I will let this be my last post on the subject, I think this article is a good synopsis of the problems some see with his character Finn.

"A few other critics have noted the lack of dramatic agency of the Finn character in nominal configurations such as: his inability to comprehend “droid speak”, “Wookie speak” and other languages that come easily to the White characters; inability to pilot spacecraft; lack of weapons knowledge even though he was a Stormtrooper; and finally his lack of knowledge of “the resistance” when in fact as a Stormtrooper he would have known whom the Empire considered its enemies. These nominal inabilities are contradicted by Finn’s ability to wield a light saber with no training; his courage in various battles; his decision to leave the Empire; his choice to return to participate with the rebels of the resistance.

The pointing out of such contradictions in the consistency and the ability of the Black character to wield dramatic agency in a White film is often seen as “nit-picking” from loyal fans – both White and Black – of a White franchise film because, as long as the film ends with full White dramatic agency, there is less spectator investment in questioning the loose ends or the problematic construction of the Black hyper-token. The White filmmakers have the noblesse oblige to say to Black critics, ”Hey, be glad that we even cast a Black in this film,” and Black loyal fans can say, ”Thank you for casting one of us,” by their ticket purchases, glowing reviews and repeat viewings."

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

@spacebaby45678 Sorry for derailing the tweets thread. And thanks very much for the link. That is a very informative article. I apologize for my laziness. I never did bother to learn much about opposing viewpoints on Finn. I only ever really noticed the Tumblr Finn stans who believe he is a cinnamon roll and future Jedi. I never really realized how polarizing he really was.

I tried to do some more research and I found this article: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/columns/134072-lets-talk-about-finn-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html. It seems really balanced and discusses the range of reactions black fans have had to Finn. I think it's very well written. It mentions what you are talking about, I think, but also talks about the flip side of that and tries to find a middle ground.

It appears that the article you linked is one that you found on one of the more extreme ends of the spectrum (in my own point of view...im obviously not an authority on the subject) since some of those arguments start to possibly disregard what was actually in the movie a bit (I never saw Finn be incompetent with weapons--Rey was the one Han said "you still got a lot to learn" to, not Finn, Wookiee or droid speak-- I don't think it's common even among white people and it makes sense that the FO would not value those languages or teach them, Finn did know about the resistance, he knew more than Rey did on most topics except mechanics and piloting and smuggling, Finn was trained with the same energy baton the other trooper used, piloting skills and trooper combat skills are probably specialized training and don't have much cross-over, etc.) but I see how the frustration there is valid.

I suppose it isn't about whether or not the complaints are always perfectly factual. That is definitely not the real issue. If the overall mood about the character for this author, and others who feel similarly, was good, minor inconsistencies would be ignored. So I can see the overall point of view is still very valid despite some more contestable points that I disagree with. As I read through the article, I see that they have lots more good points as well and a few more points that I also consider debatable. But they certainly aren't making something out of nothing.

Though it is also certainly valid that many fans absolutely loved Finn. Like these authors: https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2015/12/23/for-the-love-of-fn-2187-why-finn-is-one-of-the-best-new-characters-in-star-wars/, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-hobbs/why-finn-is-the-most-impo_b_9120106.html

I realize not everyone thinks the same way and that neither side is really necessarily right or wrong, but both have their points and their valid emotional responses to things. And differing viewpoints don't have to come from ulterior motives or personal, internal character flaws clouding judgment and perception. I see that people can just see things differently and that there doesn't always have to be a correct point of view.

Maria Antonietta wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:I am not going to derail the Tweet's thread with a discussion about why Finn is a bad character or offensive to African Americans when there are a ton of really good thoughtful articles on the subject all over the internet and discussion all over youtube if anyone is actually interested in an opposing view they can find it easily. I will let this be my last post on the subject, I think this article is a good synopsis of the problems some see with his character Finn.

"A few other critics have noted the lack of dramatic agency of the Finn character in nominal configurations such as: his inability to comprehend “droid speak”, “Wookie speak” and other languages that come easily to the White characters; inability to pilot spacecraft; lack of weapons knowledge even though he was a Stormtrooper; and finally his lack of knowledge of “the resistance” when in fact as a Stormtrooper he would have known whom the Empire considered its enemies. These nominal inabilities are contradicted by Finn’s ability to wield a light saber with no training; his courage in various battles; his decision to leave the Empire; his choice to return to participate with the rebels of the resistance.

The pointing out of such contradictions in the consistency and the ability of the Black character to wield dramatic agency in a White film is often seen as “nit-picking” from loyal fans – both White and Black – of a White franchise film because, as long as the film ends with full White dramatic agency, there is less spectator investment in questioning the loose ends or the problematic construction of the Black hyper-token. The White filmmakers have the noblesse oblige to say to Black critics, ”Hey, be glad that we even cast a Black in this film,” and Black loyal fans can say, ”Thank you for casting one of us,” by their ticket purchases, glowing reviews and repeat viewings."

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

@spacebaby45678

I think judging a character for his skin color is a big big mistake. He wasn't treated like that because he's black, but because he's a last minute additional character and they didn't develop him the right way. Was he heroic for escaping the FO? of course. Was he realistic when five minutes later he started behaving like nothing happened? No. Han Solo had more depth, he was always angry but good at heart nonethless.

@Maria Antonietta

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Had Aaron Paul been cast in that role, no one would have batted an eye or said a word. So now should TPTB have not hired an African American for that role, knowing many of his scenes would be used for comic relief? Personally I think John Boyega did a great job with what he was given and that's why he was hired - it sure as heck wasn't for the color of his skin.

I think the thing with Finn is that there are flaws in his writing that some people are more sensitive to than they would be if Finn were white, considering the history of black characters in film. They can't help but associate some of the sloppiness of his characterization and his second-fiddle position relative to Rey with a lack of concern over a black character, which is a valid reason to be upset but isn't necessarily the case. Especially since race wasn't considered in Finn's casting if I remember correctly. I also can definitely see why some are angry about the whole 'bait and switch' thing regarding Finn being used to mask Rey as the real Force sensitive. It wasn't really the best of tactics in retrospect.

I think a lot of these frustrations will lessen if Finn grows into a full fledged protagonist in his own right with his own story over the course of the next two movies, as I hope and suspect will happen. Even better if that arc is separate from Rey's and yet not much less in importance to the galaxy overall. i.e. Finn leads the charge to take down the First Order, while Rey leads the charge to take down Snoke.

I actually saw Finn’s lack of skills in TFA as a positive thing, as it leaves his character with the room to grow – something I don’t quite see with Rey for instance.

And yeah getting separated from Rey is the best thing for his character going forward. Because he was a part of her story in TFA, many of his acts/achievements were muted down in a way. For instance, Finn getting the shields down is in theory a huge thing that leads to the destruction of the Starkiller and saves countless lives, whereas Rey’s fight with Kylo is rather insignificant in its impact on the overall big picture. Yet the latter is treated as this big epic event, whereas the former is largely a comical moment that doesn’t end up feeling like a big deal. Also, while it’s brave for Finn to come back to the Starkiller for Rey, the movie is averse to the idea of Rey actually getting rescued and she doesn’t really need Finn – so again his act is muted down somewhat.

Saracene wrote:I actually saw Finn’s lack of skills in TFA as a positive thing, as it leaves his character with the room to grow – something I don’t quite see with Rey for instance.

And yeah getting separated from Rey is the best thing for his character going forward. Because he was a part of her story in TFA, many of his acts/achievements were muted down in a way. For instance, Finn getting the shields down is in theory a huge thing that leads to the destruction of the Starkiller and saves countless lives, whereas Rey’s fight with Kylo is rather insignificant in its impact on the overall big picture. Yet the latter is treated as this big epic event, whereas the former is largely a comical moment that doesn’t end up feeling like a big deal. Also, while it’s brave for Finn to come back to the Starkiller for Rey, the movie is averse to the idea of Rey actually getting rescued and she doesn’t really need Finn – so again his act is muted down somewhat.

@Saracene

Yes. Finn is really a blank slate. He could do great things by IX... Rey, I believe is already very capable because we are to see how she'll use her abilities and develop her connection with Kylo... Finn is the true rags to riches character. He has the most to improve on

Congrats to John Boyega!

yaaaay! go john. feels weird to even think of him as a breakthrough by this point, considering what a big deal I remember Attack the Block being in the UK 5 years ago. he's SO good in that.

That man has a mastery of accents. I was completely convinced that he was a fellow American when I went to see TFA in the theater knowing nothing about the new actors and their backgrounds. Had no idea until later when I heard him speak with a British accent in an interview.

WhatGirl wrote:That man has a mastery of accents. I was completely convinced that he was a fellow American when I went to see TFA in the theater knowing nothing about the new actors and their backgrounds. Had no idea until later when I heard him speak with a British accent in an interview.

@WhatGirl

yep and nobody makes a huge deal out of it, while Blanchett's shaky accents are praised to high heaven.

I can't wait to see what happens when Finn wakes up from the coma. I wonder if he'll still be in it at the beginning and they'll actually show him regaining consciousness or if some time will have passed. And whether he'll seamlessly fit in with the resistance or if there'll be some moral angst over what he actually wants to do with his life, now he has the freedom.

Finn's Story by Jesse J Holland comes out Sept 13 this month! Is this the rumored Finn story that MSW was talking about? I don't know. This is TFA from Finn's perspective, though, just like Rey's story. I'm excited to get into Finn's head in this book.

BastilaBey wrote:I can't wait to see what happens when Finn wakes up from the coma. I wonder if he'll still be in it at the beginning and they'll actually show him regaining consciousness or if some time will have passed. And whether he'll seamlessly fit in with the resistance or if there'll be some moral angst over what he actually wants to do with his life, now he has the freedom.

@BastilaBey

And first thing he does is screaming "rey, rey!!!"