The Rise of Skywalker: Professional Reviews

Night Huntress wrote:just bought my tickets for 24th - if you book online you can choose your seats and see witch ones are already booked. Well I had free chose- NONE was occupied like ZERO I was the first.

This is...sad- like really sad.  

@Night Huntress

I am feeling very satisfied to see it. Let the movie flop. Disney giving up all integrity to please the old fanboys, just made things worse.
The old fanboys will not return, because they see Rey as a Mary Sue and will hate her even more for defeating Palpatine? Perhaps the fanboys would like her better if Ben fought together with her, instead of her having 2 lightsabers on her own.
And Disney scared away all others, who like a good storyline and some new ways on old movies, in their attempt to please all.

Saracene wrote:

special_cases wrote:If someone wants to know my honest opinion: the "Rey, Rey Skywalker" finale was planned early and became the main reason for Ben's death, sarcificing even Rey's personal arc as a hero that is always getting what he/she was looking for. They shot in the desert in November and wrapped that month. Driver was there only for few days and Daisy said that "emotional" scene was the last scene they shot. Ben wasn't planned to be there in flesh at least. The production wrapped whole shooting in February.

@special_cases

Yeah I think the same. Rey Skywalker is not just a storytelling decision, it’s so transparently a business decision as well and was hardly taken lightly.

@Saracene

But the person who's writing TROS novel thinks that business choice has a "beautiful" message even though Rey Palwalker is so forced and unearned in the context of the story, that's one of the reasons why this film has received B+ cinemascores and backlashes from critics. I'm so tired of LFL's shameless corporate mandate. The member of LFL's "sorry group" even blatantly suggested people that they should buy one of TROS merchandise to understand the film more, gosh, they're committing desperate attempts in order to make money because TROS movie is flopping.

OrionStars wrote:

Saracene wrote:

special_cases wrote:If someone wants to know my honest opinion: the "Rey, Rey Skywalker" finale was planned early and became the main reason for Ben's death, sarcificing even Rey's personal arc as a hero that is always getting what he/she was looking for. They shot in the desert in November and wrapped that month. Driver was there only for few days and Daisy said that "emotional" scene was the last scene they shot. Ben wasn't planned to be there in flesh at least. The production wrapped whole shooting in February.

@special_cases

Yeah I think the same. Rey Skywalker is not just a storytelling decision, it’s so transparently a business decision as well and was hardly taken lightly.

@Saracene

But the person who's writing TROS novel thinks that business choice has a "beautiful" message even though Rey Palwalker is so forced and unearned in the context of the story, that's one of the reasons why this film has received B+ cinemascores and backlashes from critics. I'm so tired of LFL's shameless corporate mandate. The member of LFL's "sorry group" even blatantly suggested people that they should buy one of TROS merchandise to understand the film more, gosh, they're committing desperate attempts in order to make money because TROS movie is flopping.

@OrionStars

yea nope, nowhere in the movie do u see her invested in the skywalkers. 10 min of onscreen interaction with Leia ORGANA isn't enough. Her only real connection was with her soulmate. Whatever.

How many families does Rey need?

There’s her birth parents who gave their lives to save her (but who cares whatever); oh and the Resistance family, Finn, Poe etc,; oh and Skywalkers are her family too now.

I haven't seen any evidence that TROS is "flopping". In China, sure, but TLJ also flopped in China and while TFA did better it wasn't an immense success either. It might not perform as well as TLJ but that's probably because of the low critic scores. The general audience seems to find the film totally fine (RT score is in the mid 80's). It's not going to do as well as expected or anticipated, but I don't think it'll be such a disaster that Disney will be unpleased, especially when they aren't going to be allowing this saga to continue anyway. As I said a few times they've cut their losses on the Skywalkers. They meant to.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I haven't seen any evidence that TROS is "flopping". In China, sure, but TLJ also flopped in China and while TFA did better it wasn't an immense success either. It might not perform as well as TLJ but that's probably because of the low critic scores. The general audience seems to find the film totally fine (RT score is in the mid 80's). It's not going to do as well as expected or anticipated, but I don't think it'll be such a disaster that Disney will be unpleased, especially when they aren't going to be allowing this saga to continue anyway. As I said a few times they've cut their losses on the Skywalkers. They meant to.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Are you being serious? The mouse expected to have  $450 million global and $200 million from US market alone and this is what they're getting





TROS is disastrously underperforming and it's subverting the mouse's box office expectation.

OrionStars wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I haven't seen any evidence that TROS is "flopping". In China, sure, but TLJ also flopped in China and while TFA did better it wasn't an immense success either. It might not perform as well as TLJ but that's probably because of the low critic scores. The general audience seems to find the film totally fine (RT score is in the mid 80's). It's not going to do as well as expected or anticipated, but I don't think it'll be such a disaster that Disney will be unpleased, especially when they aren't going to be allowing this saga to continue anyway. As I said a few times they've cut their losses on the Skywalkers. They meant to.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Are you being serious? The mouse expected to have  $450 million global and $200 million from US market alone and this is what they're getting





TROS is disastrously underperforming and it's subverting the mouse's box office expectation.

@OrionStars
I think it's too early to say that, personally. Give it at least a week. It's lower than expected but I wouldn't call it "disastrous". I'll admit I don't know much about this topic but it'll probably still do well, just not TFA well and probably not TLJ well.

I doubt that TRoS will flop or be a serious financial disaster. Will it underperform, yeah likely. If it makes less than TLJ it will break the established SW trilogy pattern where before the third film made more money than the second though less than the first, which will likely colour it a disappointment.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I think it's too early to tell as well, but from my cursory research the past few days, it's the combination of underperforming box office, bad reviews and the B+ Cinemascore (which actually indicates potentially bad legs and poor word of mouth) that tell a different narrative than the one you're saying. I also think people need to give it a week, but I think this might be one of the earliest indications of not so great response.

As I've said before though, I'm not sure what it matters at this stage either way.

Saracene wrote:How many families does Rey need?

There’s her birth parents who gave their lives to save her (but who cares whatever); oh and the Resistance family, Finn, Poe etc,; oh and Skywalkers are her family too now.

@Saracene

This was the biggest oversight. How insulting to learn that your parents loved and sacrificed for you and then to take some other family's name when they were barely your "parental" figures.

The very problem is the mouse wanted TROS to overperform TLJ'x box office number and unite the entire fanbase. TLJ underperformed too because they expected it to deliver $1.7 billion but in the end, it only gained $1.3 billion. So the mouse freaked the **** out and made this abomination version of TROS, sidelined Rose and retconned TLJ as an attempt to please the fans, but it's so obvious that they failed harder. TROS is underperforming like TLJ too, Chinese GA is on a bloodlust rampage because JJ killed the only character that they cared about in order to secure Rey Palwalker's position in the most stupid way so they're downvoting TROS on the film page to prevent other people from seeing it. TROS isn't only underperforming but it's also bringing SW brand down with it. What is the mouse gonna do after this? Pretend that TROS doesn't exist and retcon Rey Skywalker too like what they did to TLJ and Rose?

I hope Disney ppl are losing their minds, they deserve nothing. TROS having rotten everything is payback.

My anger is only more heightened because I just rewatched reylo scenes and just got so depressed. Literally right after ben's smile post kiss and i turned it off. THAT is the end of TROS for me.

The moral of this story is that Disney just expects too much from Star Wars while refusing to give enough time to deliver. It's not like Mouse has any real problems with shareholders and for some reason Disney has the worst reaction to any changes with SW - similar to dumb reactions people have to stock market which is always leading to rush decisions and losing money in long term period. All of this started when Iger refused to give Kathy and JJ additional year for TFA pre-production after JJ wanted Ardnt out. Then Iger pushed Solo... based on what? Nobody knows because there is no way there was any demand for this movie. Iger simply wanted to close year's profit with Solo money . Additionally he rushed Disney + closing eyes on all tech problems. They opened a service while not being ready to work fully. Again, Iger wanted to close a year with Disney+ success in his pocket. Calm down, man, you already ate 80% market and became a monopoly.

Yeah I do agree it's underperforming and probably will be seen as a disappointment to Disney like TLJ was as well. Imo they expected too much after TFA , they want Avengers Endgame kind of money out of this franchise i guess but I'm not sure that was realistic. I feel like TFA overpreformed because it was the first SW movie after such a long time and brought back the OT trio. The hype and interest for that was something they couldn't replicate no matter what the sequels did after. Also they're always gonna lose money in China which is market that often saves other movies, because nostalgia won't work there and you basically can't watch these movies without it. I think they need to give up on making SW into Marvel and adjust expectations for the future to not be as high but I doubt they'll do that lol

special_cases wrote:The moral of this story is that Disney just expects too much from Star Wars while refusing to give enough time to deliver. It's not like Mouse has any real problems with shareholders and for some reason Disney has the worst reaction to any changes with SW - similar to dumb reactions people have to stock market which is always leading to rush decisions and losing money in long term period. All of this started when Iger refused to give Kathy and JJ additional year for TFA pre-production after JJ wanted Ardnt out. Then Iger pushed Solo... based on what? Nobody knows because there is no way there was any demand for this movie. Iger simply wanted to close year's profit with Solo money . Additionally he rushed Disney + closing eyes on all tech problems. They opened a service while not being ready to work fully. Again, Iger wanted to close a year with Disney+ success in his pocket. Calm down, man, you already ate 80% market and became a monopoly.

@special_cases
Yep, the truth of the matter is they've changed their strategies so many times that it's obvious to everybody (even casual fans)! that they have no real direction and no real idea what to do with the franchise. I think Iger expected SW to be an easy money-maker, but it isn't. It's easy to sell Star Wars, but writing Star Wars isn't that simple. It isn't even like Marvel because there's no source material, which means everything (every story, every character) needs to be built from the ground up. Thus far they have not given LucasFilm the breathing room the company needed. You don't build a cinematic universe overnight, but that's what Disney executives expected when SW was purchased in 2012. They needed to let the company work through its kinks, come up with the right game plans, make mistakes, etc. Marvel did that and despite some massively poorly received films in the mid 2000's they eventually got their footing and are exceeding quotas. With LucasFilm it was like... "no, no mistakes, everything must be as successful as TFA and if it isn't, here we come to meddle."

I am curious with what they're going to decide to do now. I'm not sure they should make decisions based on TROS. Let it make the money it makes and start working more with Disney+ to bring fans back on-board. Mandalorian was a very good move, but they have to make more of them. They need to be OK with alienating certain fans with certain films and series because not everything can be for everyone. Provide an array of different content with different tones and themes and ideas. Hire good writers first-and-foremost, and never ever let toxic fans dictate how a massive film should be written or release a movie that kicks dirt on another (already divisive) movie. They need unity, not stupid divide, but who knows what they think! I sure don't.

special_cases wrote:The moral of this story is that Disney just expects too much from Star Wars while refusing to give enough time to deliver. It's not like Mouse has any real problems with shareholders and for some reason Disney has the worst reaction to any changes with SW - similar to dumb reactions people have to stock market which is always leading to rush decisions and losing money in long term period. All of this started when Iger refused to give Kathy and JJ additional year for TFA pre-production after JJ wanted Ardnt out. Then Iger pushed Solo... based on what? Nobody knows because there is no way there was any demand for this movie. Iger simply wanted to close year's profit with Solo money . Additionally he rushed Disney + closing eyes on all tech problems. They opened a service while not being ready to work fully. Again, Iger wanted to close a year with Disney+ success in his pocket. Calm down, man, you already ate 80% market and became a monopoly.

@special_cases

The most hilarious thing is Iger has just renewed the deal to extend Frozen 2's run in China because he knows all hope is lost so he's like "f*ck TROS anw", here is another fabulous antagonist to heal you guys' fresh wound.  So basically TROS has to fight against Frozen 2 even though the original plan was TROS wouldn't have to compete with another Disney film in December 2019.  

I like the Mandalorian but don't loove it. The past couple episodes have been great but took way too long to get into it.
I personally never cared for more obiwan, I feel I got enough from the movies. But hey that's another thing fans want.
The one thing i have always wanted was KOTOR, the next GOT but 10,000x more epic. But doesn't seem like they have balls to do it. They are afraid of creating completely brand new things in other eras. They are forever stuck with the old.

OrionStars wrote:

Saracene wrote:

special_cases wrote:If someone wants to know my honest opinion: the "Rey, Rey Skywalker" finale was planned early and became the main reason for Ben's death, sarcificing even Rey's personal arc as a hero that is always getting what he/she was looking for. They shot in the desert in November and wrapped that month. Driver was there only for few days and Daisy said that "emotional" scene was the last scene they shot. Ben wasn't planned to be there in flesh at least. The production wrapped whole shooting in February.

@special_cases

Yeah I think the same. Rey Skywalker is not just a storytelling decision, it’s so transparently a business decision as well and was hardly taken lightly.

@Saracene

But the person who's writing TROS novel thinks that business choice has a "beautiful" message even though Rey Palwalker is so forced and unearned in the context of the story, that's one of the reasons why this film has received B+ cinemascores and backlashes from critics. I'm so tired of LFL's shameless corporate mandate. The member of LFL's "sorry group" even blatantly suggested people that they should buy one of TROS merchandise to understand the film more, gosh, they're committing desperate attempts in order to make money because TROS movie is flopping.

@OrionStars

Okay, after this pathetic attempt to push this beautiful movie and it´s beautiful message I have less than ever the intention to buy this book.

What really makes me mad with this Carson "beautiful take" is that I totally get and support a message of familial bonds of choice but "Rey Skywalker" is cold hearted business decision. She should have took Solo's name in this context. In the story which respects itself, Rey should have found "bond of LOVE&CHOICE" in marriage to her soulmate. Did someone hear of this wordlwide phenomenon here? I heard it's very popular event and decision that most world cultures recognise. Wow, I think we found the solution, for taking the name and making Rey happy and the end satisfying!

the "problem" is most people will blame TLJ for TROS underperforming- but it will be the numbers from the second and third week that shows its a problem with the movie itself and not "boycotting disappointed fans". I saw TLJ several times- I doubt I bother more than one viewing with TROS.

Movie tickets are very expensive here- I only pay watching a movie twice or more times if I really enjoyed it. I predict it will flop big time in Europe as well- at least compared to the expectations of Disney.

ZioRen wrote:

Saracene wrote:How many families does Rey need?

There’s her birth parents who gave their lives to save her (but who cares whatever); oh and the Resistance family, Finn, Poe etc,; oh and Skywalkers are her family too now.

@Saracene

This was the biggest oversight. How insulting to learn that your parents loved and sacrificed for you and then to take some other family's name when they were barely your "parental" figures.

@ZioRen

True, and her 'loving' parents sold her to the heart of gold Unkar for a carefree and wonderful childhood...

None of it makes sense, at all. But I do love that they had to mention specifically that Rey's father was Sheev's kid- all those fanboys complaining that Leia isn't a real Skywalker must have convinced them.

I predicted that TROS will do well at first. But once people have seen it, and word of mouth goes around, the takings will start to fall. The beauty of the SW films is that they are worth seeing over and over again. And this is how they make big money. But who wants to watch a film with such a downbeat ending? And especially at this time of year?
It's funny that they mention Crimson Peak, because although I personally liked it, it didn't exactly tank but it wasn't a box office success, despite the popularity of Tom Hiddleston thanks to him playing Loki. And that was released in October.
Disney need to get it into their thick skulls PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO BE DEPRESSED AT CHRISTMAS.

They do not want their kids to come out of the cinemas crying. They don't want their daughters to be force fed that in order to be a strong independent woman you must commit to the life of a nun.
They want to be uplifted.
And all I can think is if this film has reduced grown adults to tears what effect has it had on youngsters? They're growing up much too quickly as it is.

So they chose Titanic as inspiration? Titanic was based on a real life disaster. James Cameron used Rose and Jack as metaphors for people who actually really died. He wanted the audience to truly understand the utter pointless waste of life the Titanic tragedy was.
SW was always about hope. They should have gone with their original inspiration which was Beauty and the Beast.

Has anybody already posted this? I stole it in the forum of doom and gloom.
It´s at least funny. But has this movie even 5 seconds at a stretch which make sense???

https://www.theringer.com/star-wars/2019/12/22/21033862/rise-of-skywalker-lingering-questions-palpatine-rey-kylo-ren

unicorn wrote:Has anybody already posted this? I stole it in the forum of doom and gloom.
It´s at least funny. But has this movie even 5 seconds at a stretch which make sense???

https://www.theringer.com/star-wars/2019/12/22/21033862/rise-of-skywalker-lingering-questions-palpatine-rey-kylo-ren

Genuinely funny and quoted for truth.

I read somewhere that even Rogue One didn't do well in China, despite featuring two Chinese actors/stars.