The Rise of Skywalker: Professional Reviews

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Krafty wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

@special_cases
I don't believe for a second they'll fund a damage control film or a sequel or spinoff to TROS, but I do believe both Adam and Daisy would return to their roles for the right compensation (and for Driver, the right script/writers). There's not a chance in hell of this occurring, however. Even with willing actors LucasFilm seems prepared to go down with every ship while actively course correcting and blatantly lying in order to cover up that course correction. There will be a reaction - especially if the box office numbers are lower than predicted, but it'll probably be something more like calling up Rian and giving him the opportunity to start his work sooner in an attempt to win back the TLJ lovers.

There's no doubt they know they made a mistake, it's just a matter of if it actually reflects at the box office and if repeat viewings diminish because of the depressing, disappointing finale. This is by far their lowest reviewed Star Wars film (and the second lowest reviewed Star Wars film ever) and that's got to sting for Abrams, Terrio and everybody involved.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh no I don't think they will either. But I'm salty lol so I felt compelled to say ask, as I feel any GA who watches and is disappointed will be asking the same question. I'm just curious because...well I don't know. These films just were the ones that tipped me over the edge about film so much that l'm going to school for it. Just this is my thing. So the creative decisions going forward are just of a particular interest lol

@Krafty
I really don't know. I'm also curious and will be paying loose attention to their decisions depending on TROS' box office earnings. I fully expect it to flop entirely in Asia so it's all on the U.S. again, and whether or not it outperforms TLJ - well, we shall see. I do believe this will incite newfound respect for Rian because that has been a massive echo in the critical response to the film. People who loved TLJ are pissed that this movie doesn't honour it or its critically acclaimed director, and that's kind of a big deal. They're dealing with a financial flop (Solo) and now a critical flop, but we don't know how this one will perform.

If they had any sense (which they don't) they would call up Rian Johnson right now and offer him the chance to write a film about Rey and Ben.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Krafty wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

@special_cases
I don't believe for a second they'll fund a damage control film or a sequel or spinoff to TROS, but I do believe both Adam and Daisy would return to their roles for the right compensation (and for Driver, the right script/writers). There's not a chance in hell of this occurring, however. Even with willing actors LucasFilm seems prepared to go down with every ship while actively course correcting and blatantly lying in order to cover up that course correction. There will be a reaction - especially if the box office numbers are lower than predicted, but it'll probably be something more like calling up Rian and giving him the opportunity to start his work sooner in an attempt to win back the TLJ lovers.

There's no doubt they know they made a mistake, it's just a matter of if it actually reflects at the box office and if repeat viewings diminish because of the depressing, disappointing finale. This is by far their lowest reviewed Star Wars film (and the second lowest reviewed Star Wars film ever) and that's got to sting for Abrams, Terrio and everybody involved.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh no I don't think they will either. But I'm salty lol so I felt compelled to say ask, as I feel any GA who watches and is disappointed will be asking the same question. I'm just curious because...well I don't know. These films just were the ones that tipped me over the edge about film so much that l'm going to school for it. Just this is my thing. So the creative decisions going forward are just of a particular interest lol

@Krafty
I really don't know. I'm also curious and will be paying loose attention to their decisions depending on TROS' box office earnings. I fully expect it to flop entirely in Asia so it's all on the U.S. again, and whether or not it outperforms TLJ - well, we shall see. I do believe this will incite newfound respect for Rian because that has been a massive echo in the critical response to the film. People who loved TLJ are pissed that this movie doesn't honour it or its critically acclaimed director, and that's kind of a big deal. They're dealing with a financial flop (Solo) and now a critical flop, but we don't know how this one will perform.

If they had any sense (which they don't) they would call up Rian Johnson right now and offer him the chance to write a film about Rey and Ben.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Krafty wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

@special_cases
I don't believe for a second they'll fund a damage control film or a sequel or spinoff to TROS, but I do believe both Adam and Daisy would return to their roles for the right compensation (and for Driver, the right script/writers). There's not a chance in hell of this occurring, however. Even with willing actors LucasFilm seems prepared to go down with every ship while actively course correcting and blatantly lying in order to cover up that course correction. There will be a reaction - especially if the box office numbers are lower than predicted, but it'll probably be something more like calling up Rian and giving him the opportunity to start his work sooner in an attempt to win back the TLJ lovers.

There's no doubt they know they made a mistake, it's just a matter of if it actually reflects at the box office and if repeat viewings diminish because of the depressing, disappointing finale. This is by far their lowest reviewed Star Wars film (and the second lowest reviewed Star Wars film ever) and that's got to sting for Abrams, Terrio and everybody involved.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh no I don't think they will either. But I'm salty lol so I felt compelled to say ask, as I feel any GA who watches and is disappointed will be asking the same question. I'm just curious because...well I don't know. These films just were the ones that tipped me over the edge about film so much that l'm going to school for it. Just this is my thing. So the creative decisions going forward are just of a particular interest lol

@Krafty
I really don't know. I'm also curious and will be paying loose attention to their decisions depending on TROS' box office earnings. I fully expect it to flop entirely in Asia so it's all on the U.S. again, and whether or not it outperforms TLJ - well, we shall see. I do believe this will incite newfound respect for Rian because that has been a massive echo in the critical response to the film. People who loved TLJ are pissed that this movie doesn't honour it or its critically acclaimed director, and that's kind of a big deal. They're dealing with a financial flop (Solo) and now a critical flop, but we don't know how this one will perform.

If they had any sense (which they don't) they would call up Rian Johnson right now and offer him the chance to write a film about Rey and Ben.

rey09 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Krafty wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

@special_cases
I don't believe for a second they'll fund a damage control film or a sequel or spinoff to TROS, but I do believe both Adam and Daisy would return to their roles for the right compensation (and for Driver, the right script/writers). There's not a chance in hell of this occurring, however. Even with willing actors LucasFilm seems prepared to go down with every ship while actively course correcting and blatantly lying in order to cover up that course correction. There will be a reaction - especially if the box office numbers are lower than predicted, but it'll probably be something more like calling up Rian and giving him the opportunity to start his work sooner in an attempt to win back the TLJ lovers.

There's no doubt they know they made a mistake, it's just a matter of if it actually reflects at the box office and if repeat viewings diminish because of the depressing, disappointing finale. This is by far their lowest reviewed Star Wars film (and the second lowest reviewed Star Wars film ever) and that's got to sting for Abrams, Terrio and everybody involved.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh no I don't think they will either. But I'm salty lol so I felt compelled to say ask, as I feel any GA who watches and is disappointed will be asking the same question. I'm just curious because...well I don't know. These films just were the ones that tipped me over the edge about film so much that l'm going to school for it. Just this is my thing. So the creative decisions going forward are just of a particular interest lol

@Krafty
I really don't know. I'm also curious and will be paying loose attention to their decisions depending on TROS' box office earnings. I fully expect it to flop entirely in Asia so it's all on the U.S. again, and whether or not it outperforms TLJ - well, we shall see. I do believe this will incite newfound respect for Rian because that has been a massive echo in the critical response to the film. People who loved TLJ are pissed that this movie doesn't honour it or its critically acclaimed director, and that's kind of a big deal. They're dealing with a financial flop (Solo) and now a critical flop, but we don't know how this one will perform.

If they had any sense (which they don't) they would call up Rian Johnson right now and offer him the chance to write a film about Rey and Ben.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Dear God, a reylo movie by Rian Johnson??! He joked about a makeout movie. Disney......there's only one way you can redeem yourself and it's thru that XD

Honestly I also have this tingling hope they do a standalone or something but I need to stop hoping. Disney has NO idea what they are doing. They don't know what ppl want. it's clear they have no heart for this, it's only about the cash.

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

special_cases wrote:@Krafty Right now I think that they know that they made a mistake. They made Star Wars depressing. Not sad or tragic, there is simply no compensation in the story for all the tradegy. They don't need even reviews for understanding that. But BO and reviews and GA reaction will influence how they will react to this mistake.

Perhaps they made this choice while having something in the plans and we can't undertand real reason behind some decisions. But yes, I think it definitely could impact potential continuations of this story and not in comics. During TLJ promo Daisy made a few comments which actors usually make when they try to negotiate something aka get bigger salary for the next contract. I don't know why people assume that Driver will never return to the role. Why? He seems is enjoying playing this character very much. Unless there was some serious deama behind-the-scenes or Disney suddenly decided that they can't afford 10-20 millions that he will certainly ask. I mean, DIsney definitely wants to move from Lucas' Skywalkers desparately but it doesn't mean they will ignore cash cow right under their nose.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Well, if this movie is truly a financial disaster somehow (I truly don't think it will be - I dunno) then I imagine LucasFilm is going to be left in a strange position where they really can no longer afford to sweep bad reception under the rug and pretend that they have some massive handle on things that doesn't exist. I'm not here to blame Kathleen Kennedy because I don't believe this is her fault exclusively, but who knows. There are too many elements we simply don't understand because LucasFilm is not at all open about their successes or problems.

1) Was there already some plan beyond this that explains some of the decisions in this film? Good lord, I hope not.
2) Did these decisions come entirely from JJ and Terrio or were they guided by some list of script must-haves?
3) What do people actually dislike about this film? Pacing? Depressing tone? JJ's breakneck style finally being taken so far it cracks?
4) What do people actually like about this film and want to see resolved/followed up on?

Now, can LucasFilm go on without attempting to course correct this particular saga and hope to win back some support? I truly have no idea. I think the resentment and lack of trust might be so high that they could be in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with the Skywalkers where they can no longer please anybody, even if the actors would be willing to return for some kind of spinoff or follow-up. I think it's more likely they'll shove this mess off on books and comics to resolve, but even then I'm not convinced they're capable of shoving aside their pride for 2 seconds and accepting that their approach isn't working.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Well, if this movie is truly a financial disaster somehow (I truly don't think it will be - I dunno) then I imagine LucasFilm is going to be left in a strange position where they really can no longer afford to sweep bad reception under the rug and pretend that they have some massive handle on things that doesn't exist. I'm not here to blame Kathleen Kennedy because I don't believe this is her fault exclusively, but who knows. There are too many elements we simply don't understand because LucasFilm is not at all open about their successes or problems.

1) Was there already some plan beyond this that explains some of the decisions in this film? Good lord, I hope not.
2) Did these decisions come entirely from JJ and Terrio or were they guided by some list of script must-haves?
3) What do people actually dislike about this film? Pacing? Depressing tone? JJ's breakneck style finally being taken so far it cracks?
4) What do people actually like about this film and want to see resolved/followed up on?

Now, can LucasFilm go on without attempting to course correct this particular saga and hope to win back some support? I truly have no idea. I think the resentment and lack of trust might be so high that they could be in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with the Skywalkers where they can no longer please anybody, even if the actors would be willing to return for some kind of spinoff or follow-up. I think it's more likely they'll shove this mess off on books and comics to resolve, but even then I'm not convinced they're capable of shoving aside their pride for 2 seconds and accepting that their approach isn't working.

Now, The Rise of Skywalker has been rather coolly received in some quarters, and I certainly think it isn’t quite as strong as The Last Jedi, around which critical consensus has gathered. ... here is, I admit, some excessive MacGuffinism...
And Driver’s performance is genuinely excellent – he brings an absolute commitment to the role, distinguishing it from the tongue-in-cheek black comedy of Gleeson, and, however absurd it sounds, there is subtlety and even delicacy in his vocal range. ...
The Rise of Skywalker is socked over with such energy, such euphoric certainty. And it’s such fun: full of the rackety exuberance...
...leave us with such an exhilarating flourish.

nickandnora wrote:(...)One thing I will point out is that while I think Lucasfilm/Disney have squandered enough goodwill at this point where it might be difficult to genuinely garner renewed interest in this franchise or this film, it's also worth noting that historically Star Wars fans have been so, SO difficult in so many variety of ways that I'm sure a lot of complaints will fan on deaf ears. I suspect they are immune to most bitching at this point, and I think that only if this thing completely tanks financially AND critically on all fronts, including supplementary material and merchandising they might be like, "... oh." But again, what does it even matter at this point? This is where I was planning on my fandom ending anyway, for good or for bad (I don't like extended universe stuff, I like solid, beginning to end storytelling and that's it). Not sure where the rest of you fall on that spectrum.

nickandnora wrote:(...)On a personal note, I am very (very very) curious as to how I'm going to respond to this in light of the plot and the critical reaction in particular. While in theory I recognize that critics aren't necessarily the last word on anything, there have been very few times that I have disagreed with whatever the majority take is. There's only two times that I can recall when a movie has been classified as "rotten" that I've disagreed with. The first is the DiCaprio version of The Great Gatsby which, as an English teacher, I adored so much. I've rarely seen a film come to the table with such fresh and innovative energy, while at the same time CLEARLY understanding the nuances and themes of its source material (the novel). Seriously, can't say enough good things about it, and the critics were completely 50/50 on it. The other time was with the Gerard Butler version of Phantom of the Opera. It's not even that I completely disagree with the critics on this one, but I found the film so thoroughly enjoyable at the time that it's the only film I've seen in theaters that ties with the amount of times I saw TLJ (three times). Perhaps it was just my love of seeing some well-adored source material on the screen. Maybe that makes me like old-school Star Wars fans in that regard, I don't know, lol.

DeeBee wrote:I saw TLJ five times at the cinema. I'm doubtful I'll go back a second time for TROS!

Atenais wrote:The review from The Economist was, somehow, positive: https://www.economist.com/prospero/2019/12/18/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-gives-the-fans-what-they-want

The faults of “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” are those of the franchise over all, distilled and magnified because the film’s director, J. J. Abrams, is mainly a distiller and a magnifier, and brings virtually no originality to it.

The hermetic logic of the plot is as impeccable as it is ridiculous. It’s a drama crafted with robotic insularity for the consumption of viewers being rendered robotic at each moment of the soullessly uniform spectacle.

Abrams doesn’t offer any original, significant, or memorable images, not a glimmer of action that’s staged with a sense even of mere physical connection, let alone balletic grace or athletic splendor.

What’s more, it’s dispiriting to see the differences in how Ridley and Driver are directed. Ridley is called upon to express and overexpress, at each given moment, one given emotion, while Driver underexpresses, suggesting competing emotions. This isn’t a judgment on the skills of the two actors but, rather, what they reflect in the Star Wars universe and its creative conception: there, women, however heroic, are simple, and men are complex. It’s a reminder that the director and the four credited writers of “The Rise of Skywalker” are all male—and that the entire franchise, including the past half decade’s trio of sequels, has had no female director (and only one female screenwriter, Leigh Brackett, on “The Empire Strikes Back,” from 1980).

The negative reviews that “The Rise of Skywalker” is getting seem to me like the reverberations of Martin Scorsese’s recent anti-franchise discourse—like a critical community doing public penance for its decades of fealty to imposters and fabrications and mercantile simulacra of art, a long-overdue recognition of the distinction between corporate content and personal creation. Despite the round of art-house verities that often get ballyhooed in their stead, this is a development that nonetheless fills one, dare I say it, with a new hope for the cinema.